Author Topic: Pew Data: The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants  (Read 3864 times)

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Offline lubeltri

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Re: Pew Data: The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2011, 11:53:55 PM »
I'd also add that the organ has been used in Western Catholic sacred music for many centuries. "All Are Welcome" or "On Eagle's Wings" or "Gather Us In" sung with guitar and drum will, thank God, not last more than another generation or two.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Pew Data: The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants
« Reply #46 on: April 22, 2011, 12:15:06 AM »
I actually know Eagles' Wings from my youth in the RCC, but I don't know many of the traditional hymns. To their credit though, I did learn the Creed during those years, even if I didn't understand it.

At my first Orthodox service, after having not been in a RCC for some 13 years, I was actually surprised that I knew it and started saying it with everyone else. Apparently I had just been taught a few extra words.  ;)

Offline Peter J

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Re: Pew Data: The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants
« Reply #47 on: April 23, 2011, 08:57:28 PM »
I dare you to pry the church organ out of my cold, dead hands 

Not meaning to pry into an obviously personal matter, but were your hands amputated by a doctor, or were you the victim of a violent psycho? And what's the deal with the church organ?

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Offline Peter J

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Re: Pew Data: The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants
« Reply #48 on: April 23, 2011, 08:58:46 PM »
P.S. Nice seeing both you and Papist on the same thread. Very nostalgic for me. :)
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Offline synLeszka

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Re: Pew Data: The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants
« Reply #49 on: April 23, 2011, 10:37:35 PM »
If the Protestants are all the children of the Latin Church, than the Muslims, Buddhists and Hinduists are lost children of Holy Russian Orthodoxy.

Offline Peter J

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Re: Pew Data: The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants
« Reply #50 on: April 23, 2011, 10:43:12 PM »
The Roman Catholic Church is unlikely to ever do the things that it would have to do to stop this hemorrhage, because it would involve too many changes to the structure of the church, and reversals of positions that it has long held.

What about explaining those positions to people?
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Pew Data: The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants
« Reply #51 on: April 24, 2011, 02:00:23 AM »
I'd also add that the organ has been used in Western Catholic sacred music for many centuries. "All Are Welcome" or "On Eagle's Wings" or "Gather Us In" sung with guitar and drum will, thank God, not last more than another generation or two.

I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder... er... ear of the behearer(?) It seems to me that Roman Catholic masses are much closer to guitar-and-drums Protestant services than they are to what I've experienced in Eastern Orthodox/Catholic services... but... anyway... if it's working for you then don't let me put a damper on your parade...  :angel:

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Pew Data: The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants
« Reply #52 on: April 24, 2011, 03:42:38 PM »
If the Protestants are all the children of the Latin Church, than the Muslims, Buddhists and Hinduists are lost children of Holy Russian Orthodoxy.

Definitely one of the stupidest things I've read on the internets.

Offline Schultz

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Re: Pew Data: The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants
« Reply #53 on: April 24, 2011, 03:53:07 PM »
I'd also add that the organ has been used in Western Catholic sacred music for many centuries. "All Are Welcome" or "On Eagle's Wings" or "Gather Us In" sung with guitar and drum will, thank God, not last more than another generation or two.

I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder... er... ear of the behearer(?) It seems to me that Roman Catholic masses are much closer to guitar-and-drums Protestant services than they are to what I've experienced in Eastern Orthodox/Catholic services... but... anyway... if it's working for you then don't let me put a damper on your parade...  :angel:

It really depends from parish to parish.  The Archdiocese of Baltimore has the strange distinction of having two Cathedrals (long story).  The newer one, although in a very striking neo-Gothic style (although, honestly, it's a bit ugly to me), is known for its..ahem..bad music.  The older, original one, has much better music.  The same goes for the parishes within the diocese.  You'll have a Gregorian choir at St. Alphonsus in the city but up the road at the Church of the Nativity in Timonium, you'll have the most atrocious guitar masses in a church building that, at least 10 years ago when I went there, is devoid of a tabernacle; it's in a separate "chapel".
« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 03:58:04 PM by Schultz »
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Offline lubeltri

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Re: Pew Data: The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants
« Reply #54 on: April 24, 2011, 10:37:05 PM »
I'd also add that the organ has been used in Western Catholic sacred music for many centuries. "All Are Welcome" or "On Eagle's Wings" or "Gather Us In" sung with guitar and drum will, thank God, not last more than another generation or two.

I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder... er... ear of the behearer(?) It seems to me that Roman Catholic masses are much closer to guitar-and-drums Protestant services than they are to what I've experienced in Eastern Orthodox/Catholic services... but... anyway... if it's working for you then don't let me put a damper on your parade...  :angel:

It really depends from parish to parish.  The Archdiocese of Baltimore has the strange distinction of having two Cathedrals (long story).  The newer one, although in a very striking neo-Gothic style (although, honestly, it's a bit ugly to me), is known for its..ahem..bad music.  The older, original one, has much better music.  The same goes for the parishes within the diocese.  You'll have a Gregorian choir at St. Alphonsus in the city but up the road at the Church of the Nativity in Timonium, you'll have the most atrocious guitar masses in a church building that, at least 10 years ago when I went there, is devoid of a tabernacle; it's in a separate "chapel".

You are right that the restoration of the liturgy on the ground is uneven. In the Diocese of Arlington, for example, about 1/4 of the parishes have at-least-weekly Traditional Latin Masses, and there are many well-celebrated Novus Ordos. My Archdiocese is decent and is getting better by the year.

In some southern dioceses I've been to, it is actually hard to find a reverent Mass at all.

But the trajectory everywhere is positive.

Offline lubeltri

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Re: Pew Data: The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants
« Reply #55 on: April 24, 2011, 10:43:12 PM »
I dare you to pry the church organ out of my cold, dead hands 

Not meaning to pry into an obviously personal matter, but were your hands amputated by a doctor, or were you the victim of a violent psycho? And what's the deal with the church organ?

Your comment reminds me of the Haunch of Venison, an ancient pub I've been to in Salisbury, England. Set in the wall is a mummified hand that was chopped from the arm of a cheating card player in the pub about 300 years ago.



I love England.  :)

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Getting back to things, the organ may be a controversial feature of Greek Orthodox churches, but in Latin Catholicism it is very traditional. And I love it. I'm a bit biased, perhaps, because the sound of those glorious pipes combined with sacred polyphony turns me into this:




Offline Peter J

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Re: Pew Data: The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants
« Reply #56 on: April 24, 2011, 10:56:08 PM »
I dare you to pry the church organ out of my cold, dead hands 

Not meaning to pry into an obviously personal matter, but were your hands amputated by a doctor, or were you the victim of a violent psycho? And what's the deal with the church organ?

Your comment reminds me of the Haunch of Venison, an ancient pub I've been to in Salisbury, England. Set in the wall is a mummified hand that was chopped from the arm of a cheating card player in the pub about 300 years ago.

Never been there -- or anywhere in England for that matter -- but I was listening to the Bon Jovi song, Bad Venison, earlier today.
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Pew Data: The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants
« Reply #57 on: April 24, 2011, 10:59:10 PM »
But the trajectory everywhere is positive.

I was going to make some smug remark asking if it could get any worse, but then I realized that it actually could have gotten a lot worse, plus it's Easter and especially not the time for smugness. Christ is risen!

Offline lubeltri

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Re: Pew Data: The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants
« Reply #58 on: April 24, 2011, 11:39:59 PM »
But the trajectory everywhere is positive.

I was going to make some smug remark asking if it could get any worse, but then I realized that it actually could have gotten a lot worse, plus it's Easter and especially not the time for smugness. Christ is risen!

Sounds like you just made it.  ;)

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Offline Keble

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Re: Pew Data: The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants
« Reply #59 on: April 24, 2011, 11:47:40 PM »
It really depends from parish to parish.  The Archdiocese of Baltimore has the strange distinction of having two Cathedrals (long story).  The newer one, although in a very striking neo-Gothic style (although, honestly, it's a bit ugly to me), is known for its..ahem..bad music.  The older, original one, has much better music.  The same goes for the parishes within the diocese.  You'll have a Gregorian choir at St. Alphonsus in the city but up the road at the Church of the Nativity in Timonium, you'll have the most atrocious guitar masses in a church building that, at least 10 years ago when I went there, is devoid of a tabernacle; it's in a separate "chapel".

Hmmm... I've never been in the basilica but I heard Madame Durufle play the organ at Mary Our Queen. And it's a striking building; it's a pity it's poorly used but I suppose putting a second altar out in front of the baldacchino is a bad sign. St. Alphonsus is notoriously retrograde but you have to like South German HyperGothic.

A decade or so ago I would have said that if you want to see a Western rite done well and reverently, you would be better off going to an Anglican service. These days there's too many Episcopal priests who can't stick to the prayer book rite, and the guitars continue to make inroads.

Offline Schultz

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Re: Pew Data: The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants
« Reply #60 on: April 25, 2011, 10:10:59 AM »
It really depends from parish to parish.  The Archdiocese of Baltimore has the strange distinction of having two Cathedrals (long story).  The newer one, although in a very striking neo-Gothic style (although, honestly, it's a bit ugly to me), is known for its..ahem..bad music.  The older, original one, has much better music.  The same goes for the parishes within the diocese.  You'll have a Gregorian choir at St. Alphonsus in the city but up the road at the Church of the Nativity in Timonium, you'll have the most atrocious guitar masses in a church building that, at least 10 years ago when I went there, is devoid of a tabernacle; it's in a separate "chapel".

Hmmm... I've never been in the basilica but I heard Madame Durufle play the organ at Mary Our Queen. And it's a striking building; it's a pity it's poorly used but I suppose putting a second altar out in front of the baldacchino is a bad sign. St. Alphonsus is notoriously retrograde but you have to like South German HyperGothic.

That's the huge shame about Mary Our Queen: they don't use that organ to its potential.  That nave is one huge reverberation chamber and I would imagine a great organist would know how to use it.  I used to date a girl who went to Loyola and we'd go up there occasionally for Mass (I could not abide by the experimentation that went on at the church on campus) and it was usually some pithy guitar Mass. 

And you are spot on re: St. Alphonsus.  That's one gauche looking church.
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