OrthodoxChristianity.net
April 17, 2014, 12:03:59 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: The Rules page has been updated.  Please familiarize yourself with its contents!
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags CHAT Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Pre- Vatican II Catholicism  (Read 1505 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 5,670



« on: April 17, 2011, 07:09:07 AM »

Frequently we hear examples of how some things are worse since Vatican II -- the "clown mass" seems to be the most obvious. While I don't disagree with the idea that some thing are indeed worse now, I want to point out that things weren't necessarily that great in the late 19th and early 20th centuries either.

Examples:

1. Mistreatment of Eastern Catholics. (Some of you may be familiar with this famous line, and the story that surrounds it: "the presence of married priests of the Greek Rite in our midst is a constant menace to the chastity of our unmarried clergy, a source of scandal to the laity and therefore the sooner this point of discipline is abolished before these evils obtain large proportions, the better for religion, because the possible loss of a few souls of the Greek Rite bears no proportion to the blessings resulting from uniformity of discipline.")

2. The Catholic Encyclopedia. Many different examples could be furnished to explain why I included this in the list, but I'll just refer you to what it says about Photius of Constantinople:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12043b.htm

3. Pope Pius IX's statement "I am tradition." (Although I'm not certain if this is an established historical fact or a rumor.)

4. General hostility toward Protestants and Orthodox. (I don't think I need to explain that one.)
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Alpo
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: <Insert your favourite patriotic attribute here> Orthodox
Posts: 5,935



« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2011, 09:16:20 AM »

4. General hostility toward Protestants and Orthodox. (I don't think I need to explain that one.)

Actually you do. Maybe I'm too young or something but I don't know what this means.
Logged

ignatius
Baptacathadox
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic > Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 1,690


My Son Aidan... :-)


« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2011, 07:35:57 PM »

Frequently we hear examples of how some things are worse since Vatican II -- the "clown mass" seems to be the most obvious. While I don't disagree with the idea that some thing are indeed worse now, I want to point out that things weren't necessarily that great in the late 19th and early 20th centuries either.

Examples:

1. Mistreatment of Eastern Catholics. (Some of you may be familiar with this famous line, and the story that surrounds it: "the presence of married priests of the Greek Rite in our midst is a constant menace to the chastity of our unmarried clergy, a source of scandal to the laity and therefore the sooner this point of discipline is abolished before these evils obtain large proportions, the better for religion, because the possible loss of a few souls of the Greek Rite bears no proportion to the blessings resulting from uniformity of discipline.")

2. The Catholic Encyclopedia. Many different examples could be furnished to explain why I included this in the list, but I'll just refer you to what it says about Photius of Constantinople:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12043b.htm

3. Pope Pius IX's statement "I am tradition." (Although I'm not certain if this is an established historical fact or a rumor.)

4. General hostility toward Protestants and Orthodox. (I don't think I need to explain that one.)

If Roman Catholicism was wrong then, it's wrong now. If the Photius was right then, we were wrong then and we should submit to the Eastern Church and throw Western Tradition out as a very long grave error. That is what the Orthodox wish and if the Western Church agrees, we should simply do it and not dance around the issues in some attempt to save face.
Logged

St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,410


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2011, 07:48:18 PM »

4. General hostility toward Protestants and Orthodox. (I don't think I need to explain that one.)

Actually you do. Maybe I'm too young or something but I don't know what this means.

My father (born 1935) was told, by multiple priests and nuns in his time, that if he even thought about walking into a Protestant church, he was going to Hell.

My mother was taught the same thing in her conversion class before she married my father in 1959.
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
ignatius
Baptacathadox
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic > Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 1,690


My Son Aidan... :-)


« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2011, 08:12:08 PM »

4. General hostility toward Protestants and Orthodox. (I don't think I need to explain that one.)

Actually you do. Maybe I'm too young or something but I don't know what this means.

My father (born 1935) was told, by multiple priests and nuns in his time, that if he even thought about walking into a Protestant church, he was going to Hell.

My mother was taught the same thing in her conversion class before she married my father in 1959.

And don't even ask to 'marry' a protestant... my mother-in-law was socially cast out of her Catholic Community. Very Said because she is still to this day very Catholic, just outside the Catholic Church proper.
Logged

St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 5,670



« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2011, 08:46:20 PM »

4. General hostility toward Protestants and Orthodox. (I don't think I need to explain that one.)

Actually you do. Maybe I'm too young or something but I don't know what this means.

My father (born 1935) was told, by multiple priests and nuns in his time, that if he even thought about walking into a Protestant church, he was going to Hell.

My mother was taught the same thing in her conversion class before she married my father in 1959.

Wow.

BTW, it occurs to me that I should have said "antisemitism" as well as "general hostility toward Protestants and Orthodox".
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 5,670



« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2011, 08:50:46 PM »

If Roman Catholicism was wrong then, it's wrong now.

I have no problem with that logic. It's not like I'm saying "The RCC is the one true church today, but she wasn't 50 years ago."
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Tags: Vatican II 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.064 seconds with 36 queries.