Moscow to Rome: Yes to cooperation, no to communion

[Irish Hermit]

Saturday, March 26, 2011

Moscow to Rome: Yes to cooperation, no to communion,
and neither of us should compromise

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2011/03/moscow-to-rome-yes-to-cooperation-no-to.html


From a statement of Metropolitan Hilarion of Volokalamsk published in Russia
Today (h/t Ad Orientem):
***
Bishop Hilarion commented on his statement to RG as follows.


"The idea of a strategic alliance with the Catholics- is an old idea of
mine. It came to me when the Catholics were electing the new Pope. Although
I would like to point out that what I am suggesting is, in essence, the
direct opposite of Uniatism, which is a way toward a rapprochement based on
doctrinal compromises. In our point of view, the policy of Uniatism had
suffered complete failure. Not only did it not bring the Orthodox Christians
and Catholics closer together, it actually distanced them. And Uniatism, as
is currently recognized by both Orthodox believers and Catholics, is not the
path toward unity...."

[88Devin12]

Amazing words from Metropolitan Hilarion, he is truly blessed!
(I still hope and pray that some day he becomes Patriarch)

[Michał]

(I still hope and pray that some day he becomes Patriarch)

He is on the right track. But hardliners wouldn't be happy with him as the patriarch.

[88Devin12]

(I still hope and pray that some day he becomes Patriarch)

He is on the right track. But hardliners wouldn't be happy with him as the patriarch.

Are they ever happy?

[HandmaidenofGod]

I like this statement, and agree with it very much. A practical example would be a soup kitchen ministry. Instead of both groups setting up separate kitchens to feed the poor, they could collaborate to reach more people with a larger soup kitchen. After all, something like that wouldn't require either side to compromise on doctrine, and would be a benefit to all involved.

Eis polla eti despota!

[Peter J]

Moscow to Rome: Yes to cooperation, no to communion, and neither of us should compromise

Interesting in view of the fact that some of my fellow Catholics have stated or implied that we are already the same.

[stashko]

Prayers and Hope. ....That He's never elected Patriarch.......

[JamesRottnek]

Because of this or something else?

[stashko]

Even thur prayers and Hope that they don't get elected ,The Bad Ones Always seem to be elected.....Gods plan i guess must go thur,How else will the great falling away come to pass ,but thur the bad ones...

[88Devin12]

Even thur prayers and Hope that they don't get elected ,The Bad Ones Always seem to be elected.....Gods plan i guess must go thur,How else will the great falling away come to pass ,but thur the bad ones...

... really? ugh...

[synLeszka]

Orthodox: "We believe in many,divided and divisible, independent churches"
Catholic: "We believe in one holy catholic apostolic church"

[Wyatt]

Orthodox: "We believe in many,divided and divisible, independent churches"
Catholic: "We believe in one holy catholic apostolic church"

[Shlomlokh]

Orthodox: "We believe in many,divided and divisible, independent churches"
Catholic: "We believe in one holy catholic apostolic church"

Really?  You've been here long enough to know we don't believe that! 

In Christ,
Andrew

[ialmisry]

Orthodox: "We believe in many,divided and divisible, independent churches"
Catholic: "We believe in one holy catholic apostolic church"

Care to substantiate your slander?

Orthodox: We believe in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, the one which confesses the Orthodox Creed of the Catholic Church as the Fathers of the Ecumenical Councils left it. Such Orthodox can commune in any Orthodox Church, as I can personally attest on three continents (four, if Europe counts seperate).

Of course, anyone who submits to the Vatican can commune in your churches. But then so could we Orthodox Catholics if we wanted, and the Nestorians, and the Altkatholisch, the Polish National Catholics etc.  And those with clown masses, and a certain cardinal safe from prosecution for covering up pedophilia.

[SolEX01]

Orthodox: "We believe in many,divided and divisible, independent churches"

There are now more Cardinals (199) than member UN nations (192).  No wonder the Vatican doesn't join the UN or the WCC; the 199 individual kingdoms consist of the whole world.   

[Alive]

Roman corrupted perception:

Orthodox: "We believe in many,divided and divisible, independent churches"
Catholic: "We believe in one holy catholic apostolic church"

One more evidence of corruption and lie…
I never heard any of orthodox say such creed.
So if you people lie in small, no one trust you in big.



Real fact:
1. Pop all his corrupt structure are not catholic.
2. “catholic” is Greek word Pop not appreciate and apply for speculation.

No orthodox people ever call Romans as catholic till now, because got brainwashed.
Most common known identification:
-   romans
-   latinans

Orthodox – are only catholic church.

Until Pop and romans  identify them self as “catholic” – no dialog in option.

[Alive]

Saturday, March 26, 2011

Moscow to Rome: Yes to cooperation, no to communion,
and neither of us should compromise

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2011/03/moscow-to-rome-yes-to-cooperation-no-to.html


From a statement of Metropolitan Hilarion of Volokalamsk published in Russia
Today (h/t Ad Orientem):
***
Bishop Hilarion commented on his statement to RG as follows.


"The idea of a strategic alliance with the Catholics- is an old idea of
mine. It came to me when the Catholics were electing the new Pope. Although
I would like to point out that what I am suggesting is, in essence, the
direct opposite of Uniatism, which is a way toward a rapprochement based on
doctrinal compromises. In our point of view, the policy of Uniatism had
suffered complete failure. Not only did it not bring the Orthodox Christians
and Catholics closer together, it actually distanced them. And Uniatism, as
is currently recognized by both Orthodox believers and Catholics, is not the
path toward unity...."

“YES” to WHAT cooperation?
What a PC rubbish….

1.   “Moscow” is not only orthodox in the world.
2.   Vladimir 1000 years ago tell “no for rome” on Slavic land.
3.   People never learn history lesson?  Alexander Nevski was “very cooperative”.

I would not surprise if one day Russian  people kick such hierarchs out for “cooperation” .

[88Devin12]

Saturday, March 26, 2011

Moscow to Rome: Yes to cooperation, no to communion,
and neither of us should compromise

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2011/03/moscow-to-rome-yes-to-cooperation-no-to.html


From a statement of Metropolitan Hilarion of Volokalamsk published in Russia
Today (h/t Ad Orientem):
***
Bishop Hilarion commented on his statement to RG as follows.


"The idea of a strategic alliance with the Catholics- is an old idea of
mine. It came to me when the Catholics were electing the new Pope. Although
I would like to point out that what I am suggesting is, in essence, the
direct opposite of Uniatism, which is a way toward a rapprochement based on
doctrinal compromises. In our point of view, the policy of Uniatism had
suffered complete failure. Not only did it not bring the Orthodox Christians
and Catholics closer together, it actually distanced them. And Uniatism, as
is currently recognized by both Orthodox believers and Catholics, is not the
path toward unity...."

“YES” to WHAT cooperation?
What a PC rubbish….

1.   “Moscow” is not only orthodox in the world.
2.   Vladimir 1000 years ago tell “no for rome” on Slavic land.
3.   People never learn history lesson?  Alexander Nevski was “very cooperative”.

I would not surprise if one day Russian  people kick such hierarchs out for “cooperation” .

So we should just be at war with Roman Catholics at all times?

[Peter J]

Orthodox: "We believe in many,divided and divisible, independent churches"
Catholic: "We believe in one holy catholic apostolic church"

Really?  You've been here long enough to know we don't believe that! 

In Christ,
Andrew

On a positive note, this incident has helped me to finally "make up my mind" about Wyatt. (Well, synLeszka too, but that's a name I just barely recognize.)

[HandmaidenofGod]

Roman corrupted perception:

Orthodox: "We believe in many,divided and divisible, independent churches"
Catholic: "We believe in one holy catholic apostolic church"

One more evidence of corruption and lie…
I never heard any of orthodox say such creed.
So if you people lie in small, no one trust you in big.



Real fact:
1. Pop all his corrupt structure are not catholic.
2. “catholic” is Greek word Pop not appreciate and apply for speculation.

No orthodox people ever call Romans as catholic till now, because got brainwashed.
Most common known identification:
-   romans
-   latinans

Orthodox – are only catholic church.

Until Pop and romans  identify them self as “catholic” – no dialog in option.

[elijahmaria]

Orthodox: "We believe in many,divided and divisible, independent churches"
Catholic: "We believe in one holy catholic apostolic church"

Really?  You've been here long enough to know we don't believe that! 

In Christ,
Andrew

   I would liken their comments here to your comments on how it is so necessary for all Catholics to believe in private apparitions....It is about as accurate and as fair-minded, and caring...   

Tit for tat is not necessarily a good strategy, but it can be illustrative on occasion.

[Peter J]

No orthodox people ever call Romans as catholic till now

I have a question for you. What do you call the Polish National Catholic Church?

[ialmisry]

Orthodox: "We believe in many,divided and divisible, independent churches"
Catholic: "We believe in one holy catholic apostolic church"

Really?  You've been here long enough to know we don't believe that! 

In Christ,
Andrew

   I would liken their comments here to your comments on how it is so necessary for all Catholics to believe in private apparitions....It is about as accurate and as fair-minded, and caring...   

Really? You can quote (not put words in their mouth, but quote) an Orthodox who says "We believe in many,divided and divisible, independent churches"? Because we can provide plenty of quotes from your correligionists claiming one must believe in Fatima, Lourdes, Guadalupe etc.

[Peter J]

Orthodox: "We believe in many,divided and divisible, independent churches"
Catholic: "We believe in one holy catholic apostolic church"

Really?  You've been here long enough to know we don't believe that! 

In Christ,
Andrew

   I would liken their comments here to your comments on how it is so necessary for all Catholics to believe in private apparitions....It is about as accurate and as fair-minded, and caring...   

Really? You can quote (not put words in their mouth, but quote) an Orthodox who says "We believe in many,divided and divisible, independent churches"? Because we can provide plenty of quotes from your correligionists claiming one must believe in Fatima, Lourdes, Guadalupe etc.

I'm just glad to see that elijahmaria didn't second (or should I say "third" since Wyatt had already seconded) synLeszka's post.

[elijahmaria]

Orthodox: "We believe in many,divided and divisible, independent churches"
Catholic: "We believe in one holy catholic apostolic church"

Really?   You've been here long enough to know we don't believe that!  

In Christ,
Andrew

   I would liken their comments here to your comments on how it is so necessary for all Catholics to believe in private apparitions....It is about as accurate and as fair-minded, and caring...  

Really? You can quote (not put words in their mouth, but quote) an Orthodox who says "We believe in many,divided and divisible, independent churches"? Because we can provide plenty of quotes from your correligionists claiming one must believe in Fatima, Lourdes, Guadalupe etc.

 

Who cares who you quote!!

I can quote one holy catholic and apostolic Church that says I don't need to believe in any apparitions, and more than that I should not base my faith [[beliefs] in private devotions but in the public work [liturgy] and teaching of the one holy catholic and apostolic Church.

So who cares what you can do?...not I

 

[podkarpatska]

For the sake of historical accuracy, I have to remind all,  particularly Alive,  that St. Vladimir accepted Christianity during the period of the undivided Church, prior to the Great Schism. At the time the Constantinopolitan Bishops who received Vladimir and the peoples of the Rus would have regarded the Church of Rome and the Pope as part of the Orthodox Church.

[Wyatt]

Orthodox: "We believe in many,divided and divisible, independent churches"
Catholic: "We believe in one holy catholic apostolic church"

Really?  You've been here long enough to know we don't believe that! 

In Christ,
Andrew

Of course you don't believe it. You believe you are the "One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church," yet you aren't catholic and you definitely are not one.

[Wyatt]

Orthodox: "We believe in many,divided and divisible, independent churches"
Catholic: "We believe in one holy catholic apostolic church"

Really?  You've been here long enough to know we don't believe that! 

In Christ,
Andrew

   I would liken their comments here to your comments on how it is so necessary for all Catholics to believe in private apparitions....It is about as accurate and as fair-minded, and caring...   

Really? You can quote (not put words in their mouth, but quote) an Orthodox who says "We believe in many,divided and divisible, independent churches"? Because we can provide plenty of quotes from your correligionists claiming one must believe in Fatima, Lourdes, Guadalupe etc.

I'm just glad to see that elijahmaria didn't second (or should I say "third" since Wyatt had already seconded) synLeszka's post.

The EO are not one. Period. That was my point and why I gave synLeszka an amen. I don't think anyone literally believes that they confess belief in a divided Church. They consider themselves to be the "One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church" just as we do. Whose side are you on anyway? You claim to be Roman Catholic. Are you? If so, it would be nice if you would started having the stones to defend our Church instead of kissing up to those who we consider to be schismatics. So if you think you have "made up your mind" about me now and hate me for sticking up for the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church that's fine with me. Jesus warned us that we would be hated because of Him. I am just surprised to see the hatred coming from within our Church.

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

Can you all relax, please???!!! Here we are four days from Glorious Pascha and we are quibbling again (and again and again). Why are we paying so much attention to the  Neanderthals amongst us anyway? They are not going to change no matter what.

[Peter J]

Can you all relax, please???!!! Here we are four days from Glorious Pascha and we are quibbling again (and again and again). Why are we paying so much attention to the  Neanderthals amongst us anyway? They are not going to change no matter what.

That's so crazy it just might work.

[Peter J]

I don't know if this will help the discussion, but it might: a quote from a published book.

Upon closer examination, I found the various Orthodox churches to be hopelessly divided among themselves, similar to the Protestants, except that the Orthodox were split along the lines of ethnic nationalisms; there were Orthodox bodies that called themselves Greek, Russian, Ruthenian, Rumanian, Bulgarian, Hungarian, Serbian and so on. They have coexisted for centuries, but more like a family of brothers who have lost their father.

- Rome Sweet Home: Our Journey to Catholicism by Scott and Kimberly Hahn

[Schultz]

Can you all relax, please???!!! Here we are four days from Glorious Pascha and we are quibbling again (and again and again). Why are we paying so much attention to the  Neanderthals amongst us anyway? They are not going to change no matter what.

[Schultz]

I don't know if this will help the discussion, but it might: a quote from a published book.

Upon closer examination, I found the various Orthodox churches to be hopelessly divided among themselves, similar to the Protestants, except that the Orthodox were split along the lines of ethnic nationalisms; there were Orthodox bodies that called themselves Greek, Russian, Ruthenian, Rumanian, Bulgarian, Hungarian, Serbian and so on. They have coexisted for centuries, but more like a family of brothers who have lost their father.

- Rome Sweet Home: Our Journey to Catholicism by Scott and Kimberly Hahn

There are no Orthodox bodies who call themselves "Ruthenian".  That's a Roman Catholic term.   And all the various Eastern Catholic churches are organized in the same way.

One more reason why Scott Hahn is full of it.

[elijahmaria]

I don't know if this will help the discussion, but it might: a quote from a published book.

Upon closer examination, I found the various Orthodox churches to be hopelessly divided among themselves, similar to the Protestants, except that the Orthodox were split along the lines of ethnic nationalisms; there were Orthodox bodies that called themselves Greek, Russian, Ruthenian, Rumanian, Bulgarian, Hungarian, Serbian and so on. They have coexisted for centuries, but more like a family of brothers who have lost their father.

- Rome Sweet Home: Our Journey to Catholicism by Scott and Kimberly Hahn

There are no Orthodox bodies who call themselves "Ruthenian".  That's a Roman Catholic term.   And all the various Eastern Catholic churches are organized in the same way.

One more reason why Scott Hahn is full of it.

   You won't hold it a'gin me then if I agree with you...

[Schultz]

I don't know if this will help the discussion, but it might: a quote from a published book.

Upon closer examination, I found the various Orthodox churches to be hopelessly divided among themselves, similar to the Protestants, except that the Orthodox were split along the lines of ethnic nationalisms; there were Orthodox bodies that called themselves Greek, Russian, Ruthenian, Rumanian, Bulgarian, Hungarian, Serbian and so on. They have coexisted for centuries, but more like a family of brothers who have lost their father.

- Rome Sweet Home: Our Journey to Catholicism by Scott and Kimberly Hahn

There are no Orthodox bodies who call themselves "Ruthenian".  That's a Roman Catholic term.   And all the various Eastern Catholic churches are organized in the same way.

One more reason why Scott Hahn is full of it.

   You won't hold it a'gin me then if I agree with you...

I never liked his ideas even when I was a RC before I (re)discovered Eastern Christianity.  He employs the kind of rhetoric that just beats you into submission.  He has crazy eyes.  I'm sure he's a very nice, devout person, but his public persona turns me off completely.

[tuesdayschild]

He has crazy eyes.

LOL 

[elijahmaria]

I don't know if this will help the discussion, but it might: a quote from a published book.

Upon closer examination, I found the various Orthodox churches to be hopelessly divided among themselves, similar to the Protestants, except that the Orthodox were split along the lines of ethnic nationalisms; there were Orthodox bodies that called themselves Greek, Russian, Ruthenian, Rumanian, Bulgarian, Hungarian, Serbian and so on. They have coexisted for centuries, but more like a family of brothers who have lost their father.

- Rome Sweet Home: Our Journey to Catholicism by Scott and Kimberly Hahn

There are no Orthodox bodies who call themselves "Ruthenian".  That's a Roman Catholic term.   And all the various Eastern Catholic churches are organized in the same way.

One more reason why Scott Hahn is full of it.

   You won't hold it a'gin me then if I agree with you...

I never liked his ideas even when I was a RC before I (re)discovered Eastern Christianity.  He employs the kind of rhetoric that just beats you into submission.  He has crazy eyes.  I'm sure he's a very nice, devout person, but his public persona turns me off completely.

I don't doubt his devotion or his good intentions.  I doubt the usefulness and accuracy of his appointed role as the quintessential Catholic lay spokesperson.  

I've never seen him speak in person [remember I am TV-free] but I was once given several of his tapes to listen to and comment on.  I was not happy with his shading and nuance of several key teachings.  Very protestant with a gloss of Catholic phrasings, and an unwillingness to cut to the chase:  remembering that his talks are mainly directed toward ordinary folk who seem to do best with declarative sentences, I looked for the simple assertions of adult catechesis, and found them missing.

So if you add wild eyes to that...well... ...

M.

[FormerReformer]

I don't know if this will help the discussion, but it might: a quote from a published book.

Upon closer examination, I found the various Orthodox churches to be hopelessly divided among themselves, similar to the Protestants, except that the Orthodox were split along the lines of ethnic nationalisms; there were Orthodox bodies that called themselves Greek, Russian, Ruthenian, Rumanian, Bulgarian, Hungarian, Serbian and so on. They have coexisted for centuries, but more like a family of brothers who have lost their father.

- Rome Sweet Home: Our Journey to Catholicism by Scott and Kimberly Hahn

I find statements like the authors above made to be woefully ignorant of Roman Catholic history here in the US.  The situation with the Orthodox in the US isn't all that different from a century ago when one could find English, Irish, Italian, Polish, and other Roman Catholic parishes within a block of each other in the major cities (and language can't be the excuse, at the time they all celebrated in Latin!).  The main difference is that in the case with the Orthodox the differing jurisdictions each answer to a different Patriarch or Metropolitan, while the Roman Catholic parishes answered ultimately to the Pope.  Still, it wasn't until sixty years ago the ethnic differences in the Roman parishes began to fade.  Given that the major waves of the Orthodox immigration to this country was just starting as the Roman immigration was just finishing we aren't really all that far behind.

As for Roman Catholic ethnicities "coexisting" any better than the Orthodox despite the supposed "unifying influence" of the Pope, Western European history tells a far different story (the Hundred Years War, anyone?).

[elijahmaria]

I don't know if this will help the discussion, but it might: a quote from a published book.

Upon closer examination, I found the various Orthodox churches to be hopelessly divided among themselves, similar to the Protestants, except that the Orthodox were split along the lines of ethnic nationalisms; there were Orthodox bodies that called themselves Greek, Russian, Ruthenian, Rumanian, Bulgarian, Hungarian, Serbian and so on. They have coexisted for centuries, but more like a family of brothers who have lost their father.

- Rome Sweet Home: Our Journey to Catholicism by Scott and Kimberly Hahn

I find statements like the authors above made to be woefully ignorant of Roman Catholic history here in the US.  The situation with the Orthodox in the US isn't all that different from a century ago when one could find English, Irish, Italian, Polish, and other Roman Catholic parishes within a block of each other in the major cities (and language can't be the excuse, at the time they all celebrated in Latin!).  The main difference is that in the case with the Orthodox the differing jurisdictions each answer to a different Patriarch or Metropolitan, while the Roman Catholic parishes answered ultimately to the Pope.  Still, it wasn't until sixty years ago the ethnic differences in the Roman parishes began to fade.  Given that the major waves of the Orthodox immigration to this country was just starting as the Roman immigration was just finishing we aren't really all that far behind.

As for Roman Catholic ethnicities "coexisting" any better than the Orthodox despite the supposed "unifying influence" of the Pope, Western European history tells a far different story (the Hundred Years War, anyone?).

I would hope that everyone reading your message here would give your brush-off of the unifying character of a single sacral language another look.

Even as a child of four, I was singing in a children's choir.  We sang all Saturday morning requiem masses.  And by the time I began first grade I was very fluent in "Church" Latin within the context of the liturgy and the hymns.  It is the kind of fluency one gets with prayers that are chanted rather than prayers that are recited.

But that unifying character of the sacral language is not just something you or anyone else can poke under the rug along with every other inconvenient truth.

[Schultz]

I think that's his point, though, Mary.  That even though there was the unifying sacral language, as you put it, people still organized themselves according to their ancenstral ethnicity, even after the second or third generation.  Remember, it was also only until recently that the Orthodox, at least the Slavs, had a unifying sacral language, as well, and even that change is still in flux.

[Alpo]

I find statements like the authors above made to be woefully ignorant of Roman Catholic history here in the US.

I find statements like the authors above made to be woefully ignorant of just about everything in the history of Christianity in general. Uniform Church a'la modern RC apologetics is an utopia that has never existed anywhere.

[elijahmaria]

I think that's his point, though, Mary.  That even though there was the unifying sacral language, as you put it, people still organized themselves according to their ancenstral ethnicity, even after the second or third generation.  Remember, it was also only until recently that the Orthodox, at least the Slavs, had a unifying sacral language, as well, and even that change is still in flux.

I understand.  I do.  Way back in my other life I was an armchair Marxist and tried to believe in Lenin's Internationalism only to find myself morphed into a raving nationalist.  I'd like to think that I've regained some balance in these kinds of discussions...We'll see.

But the very fact that people are kin-tuned and clanish makes the unifying character of language a very essential element in crafting unity in diversity and sometimes wresting order from chaos...but nothing sits still in real life...etc.

This could be a very interesting discussion on its own merits.

M.

[ialmisry]

Orthodox: "We believe in many,divided and divisible, independent churches"
Catholic: "We believe in one holy catholic apostolic church"

Really?   You've been here long enough to know we don't believe that!  

In Christ,
Andrew

   I would liken their comments here to your comments on how it is so necessary for all Catholics to believe in private apparitions....It is about as accurate and as fair-minded, and caring...  

Really? You can quote (not put words in their mouth, but quote) an Orthodox who says "We believe in many,divided and divisible, independent churches"? Because we can provide plenty of quotes from your correligionists claiming one must believe in Fatima, Lourdes, Guadalupe etc.

 

Who cares who you quote!!

I can quote one holy catholic and apostolic Church that says I don't need to believe in any apparitions, and more than that I should not base my faith [[beliefs] in private devotions but in the public work [liturgy] and teaching of the one holy catholic and apostolic Church.

So who cares what you can do?...not I

 

you're quite entitled to have such a flippant attitude to your supreme pontiff, bishops and magisterium. That's between you and them. Just don't expect us to submit to those who make such meaningless gestures with such fanfare, or reproach us for wanting nothing to do with them.

[Robb]

The Orthodox and Catholic Churches are practically the same, although the two tend to view certain theological questions from different perspectives.  Why then can't we just have unity with eachother?  The world needs a united Christian Church now more then ever.  Let us put aside our non essential differences to build up the body of Christ, with each different Church working in their own spheres.

We could use the model of unity drawn up by the Council of Florence as our guide.  With that the East lost nothing of her theology or liturgy and the west lost nothing of her own ideas.

[ialmisry]

Orthodox: "We believe in many,divided and divisible, independent churches"
Catholic: "We believe in one holy catholic apostolic church"

Really?  You've been here long enough to know we don't believe that! 

In Christ,
Andrew

   I would liken their comments here to your comments on how it is so necessary for all Catholics to believe in private apparitions....It is about as accurate and as fair-minded, and caring...   

Really? You can quote (not put words in their mouth, but quote) an Orthodox who says "We believe in many,divided and divisible, independent churches"? Because we can provide plenty of quotes from your correligionists claiming one must believe in Fatima, Lourdes, Guadalupe etc.

I'm just glad to see that elijahmaria didn't second (or should I say "third" since Wyatt had already seconded) synLeszka's post.

The EO are not one. Period. That was my point and why I gave synLeszka an amen. I don't think anyone literally believes that they confess belief in a divided Church.

We do all the time, with the unaltered words of Ecumenical Councils "One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Churc."

They consider themselves to be the "One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church" just as we do.

So you confess that you are one with the clown masses, lord of the dance expositions, etc.

Whose side are you on anyway? You claim to be Roman Catholic. Are you? If so, it would be nice if you would started having the stones to defend our Church instead of kissing up to those who we consider to be schismatics. So if you think you have "made up your mind" about me now and hate me for sticking up for the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church that's fine with me. Jesus warned us that we would be hated because of Him. I am just surprised to see the hatred coming from within our Church.

So much for oneness.

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