Pre- Vatican II Catholicism

[Peter J]

Frequently we hear examples of how some things are worse since Vatican II -- the "clown mass" seems to be the most obvious. While I don't disagree with the idea that some thing are indeed worse now, I want to point out that things weren't necessarily that great in the late 19th and early 20th centuries either.

Examples:

1. Mistreatment of Eastern Catholics. (Some of you may be familiar with this famous line, and the story that surrounds it: "the presence of married priests of the Greek Rite in our midst is a constant menace to the chastity of our unmarried clergy, a source of scandal to the laity and therefore the sooner this point of discipline is abolished before these evils obtain large proportions, the better for religion, because the possible loss of a few souls of the Greek Rite bears no proportion to the blessings resulting from uniformity of discipline.")

2. The Catholic Encyclopedia. Many different examples could be furnished to explain why I included this in the list, but I'll just refer you to what it says about Photius of Constantinople:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12043b.htm

3. Pope Pius IX's statement "I am tradition." (Although I'm not certain if this is an established historical fact or a rumor.)

4. General hostility toward Protestants and Orthodox. (I don't think I need to explain that one.)

[Alpo]

4. General hostility toward Protestants and Orthodox. (I don't think I need to explain that one.)

Actually you do. Maybe I'm too young or something but I don't know what this means.

[ignatius]

Frequently we hear examples of how some things are worse since Vatican II -- the "clown mass" seems to be the most obvious. While I don't disagree with the idea that some thing are indeed worse now, I want to point out that things weren't necessarily that great in the late 19th and early 20th centuries either.

Examples:

1. Mistreatment of Eastern Catholics. (Some of you may be familiar with this famous line, and the story that surrounds it: "the presence of married priests of the Greek Rite in our midst is a constant menace to the chastity of our unmarried clergy, a source of scandal to the laity and therefore the sooner this point of discipline is abolished before these evils obtain large proportions, the better for religion, because the possible loss of a few souls of the Greek Rite bears no proportion to the blessings resulting from uniformity of discipline.")

2. The Catholic Encyclopedia. Many different examples could be furnished to explain why I included this in the list, but I'll just refer you to what it says about Photius of Constantinople:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12043b.htm

3. Pope Pius IX's statement "I am tradition." (Although I'm not certain if this is an established historical fact or a rumor.)

4. General hostility toward Protestants and Orthodox. (I don't think I need to explain that one.)

If Roman Catholicism was wrong then, it's wrong now. If the Photius was right then, we were wrong then and we should submit to the Eastern Church and throw Western Tradition out as a very long grave error. That is what the Orthodox wish and if the Western Church agrees, we should simply do it and not dance around the issues in some attempt to save face.

[Schultz]

4. General hostility toward Protestants and Orthodox. (I don't think I need to explain that one.)

Actually you do. Maybe I'm too young or something but I don't know what this means.

My father (born 1935) was told, by multiple priests and nuns in his time, that if he even thought about walking into a Protestant church, he was going to Hell.

My mother was taught the same thing in her conversion class before she married my father in 1959.

[ignatius]

4. General hostility toward Protestants and Orthodox. (I don't think I need to explain that one.)

Actually you do. Maybe I'm too young or something but I don't know what this means.

My father (born 1935) was told, by multiple priests and nuns in his time, that if he even thought about walking into a Protestant church, he was going to Hell.

My mother was taught the same thing in her conversion class before she married my father in 1959.

And don't even ask to 'marry' a protestant... my mother-in-law was socially cast out of her Catholic Community. Very Said because she is still to this day very Catholic, just outside the Catholic Church proper.

[Peter J]

4. General hostility toward Protestants and Orthodox. (I don't think I need to explain that one.)

Actually you do. Maybe I'm too young or something but I don't know what this means.

My father (born 1935) was told, by multiple priests and nuns in his time, that if he even thought about walking into a Protestant church, he was going to Hell.

My mother was taught the same thing in her conversion class before she married my father in 1959.

Wow.

BTW, it occurs to me that I should have said "antisemitism" as well as "general hostility toward Protestants and Orthodox".

[Peter J]

If Roman Catholicism was wrong then, it's wrong now.

I have no problem with that logic. It's not like I'm saying "The RCC is the one true church today, but she wasn't 50 years ago."

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