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Author Topic: Anti -Orthodox website  (Read 5961 times) Average Rating: 0
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Ben
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« on: May 24, 2004, 11:13:34 AM »

Very interesting.....just a whole bunch of crap:

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/
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« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2004, 11:22:04 AM »

I've seen it before.  It's hard for me to believe the people that put that website together are truly FORMER Orthodox people.  Why?  Because they make glaring errors about Orthodoxy, both theologically and liturgically.  For example, they refer to Orthodox using "wafers" for the Holy Eucharist.  Since Orthodox use leavened bread and anyone who is (or was) Orthodox knows that, it tends to make me sceptical of the genuineness of this website.  Errors abound here.  It seems to be, in short, an anti-Catholic website with the word "Catholic" removed and replaced with "Orthodox."  If this intellectual garbage, on the level of a Jack Chick tract, is what we are up against, I doubt it will hurt us at all.  Rather, it hurts those who produce such nonsense.
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« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2004, 11:32:31 AM »

It really amazes me at how poorly done these kinds of websites are.  The best websites are always the ones that are organized simply and logically.  Even the more state-of-the-art websites that incorporate Shockwave animation are organized more or less simply and logically.

But ones like this just bombard you with info so you don't even realize what you're reading anymore.   Anyone who is seriously looking for information about the Orthodox church, even for information to use against Orthodox believers, would discount this site, I think.  It really does look like the ravings of a lunatic.
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« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2004, 12:40:44 PM »


I notice that at the bottom of each subject matter they invite you to respond, with proof, if you disagree.  However, other than a few selected responses there is no section where the responses are listed.  Therefore, no section to debate their claims.

I sent the followin email to them -

Lets see if they will respond.

Orthodoc
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« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2004, 02:10:46 PM »

What a...how can I be charitable...misinformed fellow
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« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2004, 03:11:03 PM »

One person has sent EX04C a long reply.  It's posted here:

http://mattandjeffdiverge.blogspot.com/2004_04_01_mattandjeffdiverge_archive.html#108325145640573823
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« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2004, 04:55:38 PM »

I've seen it before.  It's hard for me to believe the people that put that website together are truly FORMER Orthodox people.  Why?  Because they make glaring errors about Orthodoxy, both theologically and liturgically.  For example, they refer to Orthodox using "wafers" for the Holy Eucharist.  Since Orthodox use leavened bread and anyone who is (or was) Orthodox knows that, it tends to make me sceptical of the genuineness of this website.  Errors abound here.  It seems to be, in short, an anti-Catholic website with the word "Catholic" removed and replaced with "Orthodox."  If this intellectual garbage, on the level of a Jack Chick tract, is what we are up against, I doubt it will hurt us at all.  Rather, it hurts those who produce such nonsense.

No, It is an anti-orthodox website set up by ex orthodox. You do know that they exist?

Unfortunately, they will reach alot of people.
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« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2004, 04:59:46 PM »

Yes, this website raised it ugly head some years ago.  I thought at the time it died a slow death.  Oh well.

JoeS   :-";"xx
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« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2004, 05:11:01 PM »

yes RB, we do know they exist.  However some of the complaints raised against Orthodoxy by this website sound better atributed to the Roman Church than the Orthodox church (for instance the whole wafer for communion bit someone mentioned earlier).

Joe Zollars
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« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2004, 06:13:16 PM »

Amen Joe!  There were a lot of glaring mistakes and stuff that was flat out wrong.  It makes me wonder how this person could have ever been Orthodox, and been so ignorant of their own Faith.  I mean, a wafer?  C'mon!  And the Orthodox Church only dates back to 1600...okay, sure buddy, you were Orthodox......and then he says:

"The Eastern Orthodox Church denies that man is born with sin." and

"Since the Eastern Orthodox Church denies original sin."

Really?  I just thought that we denied that Adam passed his guilt on to each of us.  Wouldn't an "ex-Orthodox" understand the difference here?

"As such, these teachings negate the need for the death and resurrection of Christ...."

I guess this "ex-Orthodox" person never sat through the Divine Liturgy, let alone any of the Holy Week services.  How strange.

"The Eastern Orthodox Church fosters the impression that the Orthodox Church of American is independent or "auto-encephalitic" (their term - not ours), without disclosing the fact that the Orthodox Church of America is little more than a rubber-stamp of the Greek Orthodox Church ruled as an Autarchy from Mt. Athos."

This hardly sounds accurate.  I thought that the OCA originally derived from the Russian Church.

"The Eastern Orthodox Church rejects the doctrine of the Priesthood of Believers, and believes that the Priests in its hierarchy stand spiritually on a level which is superior to laymen, giving priests the ability to understand the Bible in ways that Orthodox Church goers cannot understand as a result of their own study of the Bible."

Good thing my Coptic Orthodox priest didn't get the memo!  I'll have to call him and tell him to cancel Bible study this week...Also, someone should let Jaroslav Pelikan and all of the other Orthodox lay-theologians know that this is the case so they can close down their offices.  And speaking of scholarship...

"Both of these comprise the oldest copies of the Septuagint. Again, we must make the point that it is hard to understand how the Eastern Orthodox Church can claim to value the Septuagint and base its theology on the Septuagint- if it cannot even find 3 copies that agree with each other.

{Contrast this with the Greek Textus Receptus, which accords with more than 95% of all Bible Manuscripts found to date, in all countries}."

Seems to be a bit of pseudo-scholarship going on here.

"The Eastern Orthodox Church Hierarchy is constantly taking increasing steps to find reconciliation with the Roman Catholic Hierarchy, in meetings and gatherings designed to validate counterfeit claims of legitimacy that do not withstand historical scrutiny."

Its a masonic conspiracy I tells ya!

Did you check the recommended book list?  Most of them are attacks on the RCC!  "ex-Orthodox" indeed.  I remain unconvinced.  Of course I'm aware that "they do exist", but in light of the above mentioned evidence, it's going to take some doing to convince me that this is the genuine article.

This site would not have an impact on anyone who knew much about Orthodoxy.  Maybe it would serve to scare away people who knew little about the Church and were curious.  Too bad.  Maybe one of the mods should invite the webmaster here to discuss their allegations openly in a format they cannot control, where they cannot decide who sees what responses are made to their allegations.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2004, 06:20:04 PM by Antonious Nikolas » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2004, 06:14:13 PM »

yes RB, we do know they exist.  However some of the complaints raised against Orthodoxy by this website sound better atributed to the Roman Church than the Orthodox church (for instance the whole wafer for communion bit someone mentioned earlier).

Joe Zollars

If it was attributed to the roman catholic church then explain why it says " ex orthodox for christ and goes on to orthodox beliefs and practices?"

Believe me if it was address to roman catholics it would say so. well, you knew this. Smiley
« Last Edit: May 24, 2004, 06:15:04 PM by romanbyzantium » Logged
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« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2004, 06:16:48 PM »

No, It is an anti-orthodox website set up by ex orthodox. You do know that they exist?

Unfortunately, they will reach alot of people.
I'm skeptical about whether the person who has this website registered:

 twila hopkins
7931 s. Broadway
denver, Colorado 80122
United States

was ever Orthodox.  There are far too many errors which anyone who has had even a rudimentary experience with Orthodoxy would know better.  It is remotely possible that the individual(s) involved in this site may have been baptised but not raised Orthodox, but it's more likely just another Protestant smear site.
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« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2004, 06:17:39 PM »

If it was attributed to the roman catholic church then explain why it says " ex orthodox for christ and goes on to orthodox beliefs and practices?"

Believe me if it was address to roman catholics it would say so. well, you knew this. Smiley
Do you believe everything you read on the Internet?  You mean those nice Protestants could be lying?  Perish the thought.
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« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2004, 06:25:53 PM »

Do you believe everything you read on the Internet?  You mean those nice Protestants could be lying?  Perish the thought.

Just because you don't like what they are writing doesn't mean that they were not orthodox.

Remember, most of the anti catholics site are put forth by fomer catholics.
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« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2004, 06:29:53 PM »

If it was attributed to the roman catholic church then explain why it says " ex orthodox for christ and goes on to orthodox beliefs and practices?"

Because many people who are ignorant of the Orthodox Faith, see the icons and hear the Liturgy and ASSUME that it is just like the CATHOLIC Church.

DUH!

I thought the SAME thing the first time I visited a Greek Orthodox Cathedral with my then fiance.

Your problem is your perspective. You expect Protestants to see Orthodoxy through your Catholic eyes, and it just is NOT that way. Protestants RELATE Orthodoxy to Catholocism. Because at first blush it LOOKS similar.

You seem to not understand that or have a problem of disassociating yourself from YOUR past and seeing things from anothers perspective.
 
« Last Edit: May 24, 2004, 06:36:21 PM by Tom+ú » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2004, 06:47:44 PM »

Because many people who are ignorant of the Orthodox Faith, see the icons and hear the Liturgy and ASSUME that it is just like the CATHOLIC Church.

DUH!

I thought the SAME thing the first time I visited a Greek Orthodox Cathedral with my then fiance.

Your problem is your perspective. You expect Protestants to see Orthodoxy through your Catholic eyes, and it just is NOT that way. Protestants RELATE Orthodoxy to Catholocism. Because at first blush it LOOKS similar.

You seem to not understand that or have a problem of disassociating yourself from YOUR past and seeing things from anothers perspective.
 


It was created by ex orthodox. That it is why it is called Ex orthodox for christ. There is one already called ex catholic for christ. Smiley

why are you guys bringing in catholicism?
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« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2004, 06:47:46 PM »

What saddens me is that the pages have creation/modification date: 5/24/2004GǪ
« Last Edit: May 24, 2004, 06:50:27 PM by icxn » Logged
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« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2004, 06:50:37 PM »

What saddens me is that the pages have creation/modification date: 5/24/2004GǪ Ben was very quick in finding them...Huh

It says updated may 24, 2004.
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« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2004, 06:52:58 PM »

It was created by ex orthodox.

DUDE! These people were NEVER Orthodox. Otherwise, they would have done a better job of it.
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« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2004, 06:54:25 PM »

DUDE! These people were NEVER Orthodox. Otherwise, they would have done a better job of it.

Sure Tom  Wink and the ex catholic that put up their websites were never REALLY catholic Wink

They do a bad job at representing their former faith but catholic they were.
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« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2004, 06:54:29 PM »

I guess it is too late... next time keep your mouth shut yellow creature (that 's me).

Forgive me Ben!
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« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2004, 06:58:22 PM »

Sure Tom  Wink and the ex catholic that put up their websites were never REALLY catholic Wink

They do a bad job at representing their former faith but catholic they were.

RB,

NO Orthodox Church uses wafers. I mean, this is BASIC. ANYONE who has even attended an Orthodox Liturgy can plainly see that a COMMOM SPOON is used to administer the Holy Sacrament.

Rub the RC scales from your eyes and your brain and try to see the TRUTH.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2004, 06:59:29 PM by Tom+ú » Logged
romanbyzantium
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« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2004, 07:00:31 PM »

RB,

NO Orthodox Church uses wafers. I mean, this is BASIC. ANYONE who has even attended an Orthodox Liturgy can plainly see that a COMMOM SPOON is used to administer the Holy Sacrament.

Rub the RC scales from your eyes and your brain and try to see the TRUTH.

perhaps you should rub yours. It says wafer/bread.
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« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2004, 07:02:53 PM »

Wafer would never even be referenced if they were ex-Orthodox.

It's pretty obvious that they are ex RC trying to "kill 2 birds with 1 stone"
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romanbyzantium
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« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2004, 07:09:48 PM »

Wafer would never even be referenced if they were ex-Orthodox.

It's pretty obvious that they are ex RC trying to "kill 2 birds with 1 stone"

Actually, we were all wrong. They are protestants trying to expose orthodoxy as a false religion. read this. http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/profile.htm

The title was misleading.
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« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2004, 07:16:35 PM »

Bastards!

I sent them an email that said "Then you are Liars. As "Christians" how can you justify that?"

« Last Edit: May 24, 2004, 07:42:30 PM by Tom+ú » Logged
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« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2004, 07:43:02 PM »

If it was attributed to the roman catholic church then explain why it says " ex orthodox for christ and goes on to orthodox beliefs and practices?"

Believe me if it was address to roman catholics it would say so. well, you knew this. Smiley

No it was not an attack againt Romans per se, but what it said applies better to Romans than it does to Orthodox.  Look at Antoinois Nikolas' post.  This guy seems to have never been to an Orthodox Church, or he would actually know something about Orthodoxy.

Joe Zollars
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« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2004, 07:48:44 PM »

Sure Tom  Wink and the ex catholic that put up their websites were never REALLY catholic Wink

They do a bad job at representing their former faith but catholic they were.

RB:  Think about it.  They talk about how Orthdox use wafers for communion.  Obviously they aren't Orthodox and never were.  It not just that they get the internal aspects of the faith wrong, they get the externals wrong too.  It is obvious these people have never seen communion distributed at an Orthodox Liturgy

Joe Zollars
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« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2004, 07:50:16 PM »

ugh!  they are just plain crazies.  Probably born somewhere above the Mason Dixon line Wink

Joe Zollars
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« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2004, 07:55:39 PM »

And again, as someone else pointed out, they refer to many anti RCC books out there to debunk Orthdoxy.   :cwm12:
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« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2004, 08:06:11 PM »

And again, as someone else pointed out, they refer to many anti RCC books out there to debunk Orthdoxy.   :cwm12:

elisha everything on their sites has to do with orthodoxy. except the wafer part. there are things in there that I have never heard of such as theosis.
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« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2004, 11:51:22 PM »

I'm just glad several of our IT-saavy members are too mature to do something like hack their site.  That would be in very bad taste.
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« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2004, 11:53:22 PM »

elisha everything on their sites has to do with orthodoxy. except the wafer part. there are things in there that I have never heard of such as theosis.
You've never heard of theosis?
Sadly, you've learned little here, that much is certain.
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« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2004, 12:22:35 AM »

You've never heard of theosis?
Sadly, you've learned little here, that much is certain.
Demetri

Sorry to dissapoint you. Where exactly did you guys get theosis from?
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« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2004, 05:15:21 AM »

I'm just glad several of our IT-saavy members are too mature to do something like hack their site.  That would be in very bad taste.  
Could be fun though. Bobby?

Just kidding Wink though one wonders why you even mentioned it David? +ò+»-â+¦+¦ -Ç++++++-ü-î-é.

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« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2004, 10:10:59 AM »

Sorry to dissapoint you. Where exactly did you guys get theosis from?

From Scripture, among other things.

"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren" (Rom. 8:29).

Theosis is the essence of salvation.

Had God the Word not clothed Himself in humanity (John 1:14) and deified it, there would be no salvation for any of us.
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« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2004, 10:18:04 AM »

Quote
Sorry to dissapoint you. Where exactly did you guys get theosis from?

As a Roman Catholic, you know what theosis is, just not by that name.  I don't think that the RCC has a label for it, but Catholics have always been called to the perfection of their own lives through prayer, fasting and almsgiving, slowly but surely making their lives conform more perfectly to the will of God.  

The concept of theosis is covered a bit in the Catholic Encyclopedia under Mysticism.
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« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2004, 10:19:45 AM »

As a Roman Catholic, you know what theosis is, just not by that name.  I don't think that the RCC has a label for it, but Catholics have always been called to the perfection of their own lives through prayer, fasting and almsgiving, slowly but surely making their lives conform more perfectly to the will of God.  

The concept of theosis is covered a bit in the Catholic Encyclopedia under Mysticism.

Good post, Schultz.

I also think I read something about it in the CCC. I'll have to look it up again and post it.
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« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2004, 12:17:34 PM »

If it was attributed to the roman catholic church then explain why it says " ex orthodox for christ and goes on to orthodox beliefs and practices?"

Believe me if it was address to roman catholics it would say so. well, you knew this. Smiley

So, nobody ever lies?

LOL
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« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2004, 12:26:44 PM »

elisha everything on their sites has to do with orthodoxy. except the wafer part. there are things in there that I have never heard of such as theosis.

Go to the site, click on New Books, then click on Books on the Early Church.  Three of the books listed talk about:  debunking Transubstantiation (a RCC doctrine), a book called "Difficulties of Roman Catholicism" and then other books on Worshiping Mary (yes, we both now that Roman Catholics don't worship her) and Justification (another RCC doctrine).

We're not saying that the site is "lying" about being against Orthodox, just that it has the appearance of being more against the RCC than Eastern Orthodoxy.  Most of the RCs on this board agree!
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« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2004, 12:30:54 PM »

What some of us are saying is that the person(s) behind that website show evidence of either never having been Orthodox, or at least never having attended services past the age of 2 or 3.
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« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2004, 01:53:57 PM »

ugh!  they are just plain crazies.  Probably born somewhere above the Mason Dixon line Wink

Joe Zollars
The person who registered the site, Twila Hopkins (kinda sounds southern eh?), gave a Colorado address.  Sorry to inform you however, but  the site is hosted SOUTH of the Mason-Dixon Line by Ark Web Ministries, in the cosmopolitan metropolis of Jonesborough, Tennessee.
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« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2004, 02:18:06 PM »

stinkin carpetbaggers Tongue

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« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2004, 02:34:29 PM »

Whoever wrote this site has either never spoken to a priest, or basicly can't understand basic English.
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« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2004, 03:16:33 PM »

I would say that unfortunately a great many people who were raised Orthodox know next-to-nothing about Orthodoxy, but anyone raised Orthodox could think we use wafers does boggle the mind... ;-) unless, of course, one was raised Armenian?
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« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2004, 10:34:49 AM »

I would say that unfortunately a great many people who were raised Orthodox know next-to-nothing about Orthodoxy, but anyone raised Orthodox could think we use wafers does boggle the mind... ;-) unless, of course, one was raised Armenian?

I think you make an extremely good point.

One sees similar anti-RC stuff by supposed ex-Catholics reflecting an amazing level of ignorance.

Just the same, I too find it hard to believe that a former Orthodox could imagine that we use wafers in the Eucharist.

Didn't somebody post the first name of the owner of that web site? Wasn't it Twila?

Correct me if I am wrong, but that name is about as Southern Baptist as they come.

When I see or hear it I can almost smell Texas Mesquite, fajitas, and Lonestar!

Darn!

Now I've gone and made myself hungry and thirsty!
« Last Edit: May 26, 2004, 10:35:37 AM by Linus7 » Logged

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« Reply #46 on: May 26, 2004, 11:20:40 AM »


Here is the wishy washy reply I got to my email to these people -

Dear Bob,

We receive retorts a good deal. Our purpose is to advocate for our position, and to do this consistently with history and historic documents. We are interested in truth and historical facts.

We do believe that we should respond to most email that we receive. And we also believe that we should be willing to prove it wrong.

Keep in mind though that our staff is still small, and that we receive thousands of viewers every month.

We do agree with you, that we should have forms and places on our website, that would make it easier for people to respond to us, about questions or particular issues. We are working on that, even though we know that those pages are not yet finalized, so we have not released them for the public.

We do respond publicly to those who write to us, but often we do this in the form of webpages that explain our point of view on a particular subject. We just don’t advertise that email was the particular reason that prompted us to post a particular webpage, but that has happened a good amount.

In fact, we count on the emails that we do receive (in the absence of having feedback forms easily available on our site - for the moment) - in order to help us understand 1) where we are clear and where we are not 2) where we can add additional information or documentation on particular issues.

We do value the emails and feedback that we do receive from others, but we are aware that this may not always be obvious to those who come to our website.

Thanks for your note, and whether we agree with you or not, we would welcome emails about concerns which you may have.

 

In Christ,

XOFC


=======

My email:

I notice that you ask form comments and proof of those of us who disagree with you.  Yet, other than a few selected replies, I cannot find a section dedicated to the responses you receive and your retort.  If such is not the case, please show where I cann access such.  If it is not available, then what is the point of your whole website if not to proseltyze without retort?
 
In other words, you ask for freeback but are either not willing to publish such feedback or prove it wrong.
 
Bob


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« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2013, 07:14:41 AM »

Very interesting.....just a whole bunch of crap:

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/

Link is dead!
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« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2013, 06:12:28 PM »

I'm very skeptical that it was really written by an ex-Orthodox Christian; it sounds more like it was written by a typical anti-Roman Catholic Protestant who just discovered Orthodoxy and after seeing that we're liturgical, just read the Wikipedia article on Orthodoxy, copied-and-pasted his anti-RC article onto that website and changed "Catholic" to "Orthodox" and inserted a couple of half-butted criticisms of Orthodoxy coming from a quick glance at our Wikipedia page.

On the other hand, it could have been written by a catechumen from an Evangelical background who left Orthodoxy during his catechumenate period and thus had minimal experience to Orthodoxy, or, it could be from a Cradle Christopher who never really understood his faith, and was deceived by Evangelical Missionaries and started writing this stuff based off of his own inadequate experience and the strawmen of the Evangelicals.
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« Reply #49 on: February 10, 2013, 09:41:45 PM »

Very interesting.....just a whole bunch of crap:

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/

Link is dead!

But not this thread now, for some reason...
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« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2013, 10:00:18 PM »

Very interesting.....just a whole bunch of crap:

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/

Link is dead!

Don't complain!  Wink
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« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2013, 10:07:25 PM »

I'm very skeptical that it was really written by an ex-Orthodox Christian; it sounds more like it was written by a typical anti-Roman Catholic Protestant who just discovered Orthodoxy and after seeing that we're liturgical, just read the Wikipedia article on Orthodoxy, copied-and-pasted his anti-RC article onto that website and changed "Catholic" to "Orthodox" and inserted a couple of half-butted criticisms of Orthodoxy coming from a quick glance at our Wikipedia page.

On the other hand, it could have been written by a catechumen from an Evangelical background who left Orthodoxy during his catechumenate period and thus had minimal experience to Orthodoxy, or, it could be from a Cradle Christopher who never really understood his faith, and was deceived by Evangelical Missionaries and started writing this stuff based off of his own inadequate experience and the strawmen of the Evangelicals.

So basically, it could be written by anyone.

Thank you, Mr. Holmes.
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« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2013, 11:01:55 PM »

On the other hand, it could have been written by a catechumen from an Evangelical background who left Orthodoxy during his catechumenate period and thus had minimal experience to Orthodoxy
True.  I've had evangelical friends try to "save" me.  laugh 

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« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2013, 11:29:08 PM »

On the other hand, it could have been written by a catechumen from an Evangelical background who left Orthodoxy during his catechumenate period and thus had minimal experience to Orthodoxy
True.  I've had evangelical friends try to "save" me.  laugh 



...Have YOU been saved?
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« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2013, 11:37:44 PM »

On the other hand, it could have been written by a catechumen from an Evangelical background who left Orthodoxy during his catechumenate period and thus had minimal experience to Orthodoxy
True.  I've had evangelical friends try to "save" me.  laugh 



...Have YOU been saved?
To which I respond: "Still working on it, thanks."
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« Reply #55 on: February 11, 2013, 12:39:54 AM »

I can't imagine ANYBODY calling themselves an "ex-Orthodox" who has some experience with the faith....
This includes me. I'm attached. 

Obviously, I'm here on this forum. Smiley  Wouldn't be here if I wasn't attached somehow.

Feathers get ruffled more by people with Orthodox experience distancing themselves more than a person just trying to poke others.   Web sites that are non-researched are ridiculous.

Somebody once asked if I would make a well written web site with all the issues I have against EO... I bluntly told them "NO".   To their surprise I said "Because I love Orthodoxy and the church is part of me".  "Just because I have some issues of some of the practices does not mean the EO church is graceless and bad, in fact, it's very full of grace and good".    This was a protestant (Lutheran).  (one moment of life when I wish I had a still photo of the look on his face)
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