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Author Topic: Hades - Sheol - Bosom of Abraham - Paradise - Heaven - Gehenna  (Read 3268 times) Average Rating: 0
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dhinuus
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« on: April 12, 2011, 06:40:27 PM »

I am little bit confused about the following:
-   Christ’s decent to Hades on Holy Saturday
-   What happens to people who die now?
-   What happens at the Second Coming of Christ?
All dead people prior to Chirst, were in a state of the dead, known as Sheol in Hebrew and Hades in Greek.  Hades is further sub-divided into ‘Hades proper’ and ‘Bosom of Abraham’.   Prior to Christ, the Old Testament righteous dead were in the Bosom of Abraham and the unrighteous were in Hades proper. This is what we see in the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus. This Parable is set in the time prior to the crucifixion of Christ.
So far am I right?
Now, my questions:
1)   On Holy Saturday, when we say Christ descended to Hades, did he descend to Hades-Proper (the place where the Rich Man was) or to the Bosom of Abraham (the place where Lazarus was) ? Did Christ destroy Hades? If he did destroy Hades, how can people who die now go to Hades?
2)   I know Paradise and Heaven are not the same reality. Heaven happens only at the second coming of Christ right?  So is Paradise and the Bosom of Abraham the same reality?
3)   So when Christ set the captive in Hades (Hades Proper and the Bosom of Abraham) free, where did they go to? What was the state of those souls? They can’t be in Heaven, as it does not happen till the Second coming of Christ. So when we say Christ set the captives free in Hades, do we mean that the souls in Hades-proper were also promoted to the Bosom of Abraham? If so, did nothing really change for who were already in the Bosom of Abraham (for example Lazarus)?
4)   When Christ said to the thief on the right hand that he will be in Paradise; did Christ mean the Bosom of Abraham?
5)   Where do people who die in the present time go? Do they go to 'Hades' and 'Bosom of Abraham' the same way as before the resurrection of Christ, waiting for the Second Coming of Christ? If so what really changed with Christ's descend to Hades?
6)   At the Second Coming of Christ, the divine energy of Christ is going to be felt by everybody, with the good enjoying it as light (Heaven) and the evil suffering from it as fire (Gehenna). Is this right?

Please give me positive confirmation for things that I got right, feedback and correction on where I have understood incorrectly and answer my questions.

In Christ,
Mathew G M
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 06:45:56 PM by dhinuus » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2011, 07:21:11 PM »

All dead people prior to Chirst, were in a state of the dead, known as Sheol in Hebrew and Hades in Greek.  Hades is further sub-divided into ‘Hades proper’ and ‘Bosom of Abraham’.

The designation "Hades proper" may or may not be helpful. It is helpful in so far as it has been used to designate specifically the state of the tormented. However, the Bosom of Abraham was truly within the "place" of the dead known as Hades, and the righteous truly were experiencing the cursed spiritual death that is the core condition of the Fall.

1)   On Holy Saturday, when we say Christ descended to Hades, did he descend to Hades-Proper (the place where the Rich Man was) or to the Bosom of Abraham (the place where Lazarus was)?

They were the same "place". The chasm between the two was essentially a metaphor describing a difference of states (one being favored and blessed by God and the other being condemned) rather than a difference of "place". So we can just say that Christ descended into Hades, where both the righteous and wicked were.

Did Christ destroy Hades?

For the righteous, it is relatively accurate that death was destroyed. Objectively, overall, I think it would be easier to understand to say that the controlling power of death was abolished such that those who had not chosen it (the righteous) were delivered from it. However, those who continue to choose death (the wicked) nonetheless still go to Hades.
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Michał
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« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2011, 07:36:26 PM »

Here is how I understand things:
I believe that we have to distinguish three periods:
1. before Christ's Resurrection,
2. after Christ's Resurrection,
3. after the Final Judgement.

Re:1. Both the righteous and the sinners went to Hades (the Greek name) or Sheol (the Hebrew name), although the righteous went to a part of Hades/Sheol called the Bosom of Abraham, or Paradise (by analogy to the real Paradise which was the Garden of Eden and which will the Garden of Eden restored, i.e., the Heavenly Jerusalem) - both names used by our Lord - while the sinners went to Hades/Sheol the proper, a.k.a. Tartarus. The righteous were receiving a partial reward, while the sinners - a partial punishment (as described in the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus).
Re:2. All the righteous from the Bosom of Abraham were transferred to Heaven and that's where the righteous go now. Their reward is still partial but greater then the one offered in the Bosom of Abraham. The sinners still go Hades/Sheol the proper where their punishment is the same as it used to be.
Re:3. The righteous will be dwelling with Christ in the Heavenly Jerusalem which will be on the New Earth, under the New Heaven - all of it constituting the Heavenly Kingdom, or the Kingdom of God. They will be receiving the fullness of their reward. The sinners will be dwelling with Satan and all the demons in the Lake of Fire (to which Hades/Sheol will be thrown in), that is Hell or Gehenna. They will be receiving the fullness of their punishment.

And regarding dhinuus' question #6: that's what some Orthodox theologians say (Fr. Thomas Hopko for example) but it may be found controversial by others, so I believe that it's safer to say simply that the righteous will receive their reward, while the sinners -- their punishment, without going into details how is that going to actually happen.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 07:44:16 PM by Michał » Logged
dhinuus
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« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2011, 12:23:02 PM »

Re:2. All the righteous from the Bosom of Abraham were transferred to Heaven and that's where the righteous go now. Their reward is still partial but greater then the one offered in the Bosom of Abraham. The sinners still go Hades/Sheol the proper where their punishment is the same as it used to be.
Is it fair to say that NOW, Bosom of Abraham (Paradise) as a reality does not exist. There is only Heaven and Hades ?  Did the thief on the right side, go to Paradise (Bosom of Abraham) or to Heaven as you refer to above?

Mathew G M
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dhinuus
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« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2011, 12:34:57 PM »

I believe that we have to distinguish three periods:
1. before Christ's Resurrection,
2. after Christ's Resurrection,
3. after the Final Judgement.

Re:1. Both the righteous and the sinners went to Hades (the Greek name) or Sheol (the Hebrew name), although the righteous went to a part of Hades/Sheol called the Bosom of Abraham, or Paradise (by analogy to the real Paradise which was the Garden of Eden and which will the Garden of Eden restored, i.e., the Heavenly Jerusalem) - both names used by our Lord - while the sinners went to Hades/Sheol the proper, a.k.a. Tartarus. The righteous were receiving a partial reward, while the sinners - a partial punishment (as described in the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus).
Re:2. All the righteous from the Bosom of Abraham were transferred to Heaven and that's where the righteous go now. Their reward is still partial but greater then the one offered in the Bosom of Abraham. The sinners still go Hades/Sheol the proper where their punishment is the same as it used to be.

Another question, prior to the ressuruction of Christ, a person went to the Bosom of Abraham based on how good he was morally right? This would include Jew and Gentile? Or did only the sons of Abraham go to the Bosom of Abraham, and a gentile no matter how morally good he is still went to Hades? With respect to Re: 2 did only those who were in Bosom of Abraham get transferred to Heaven? Were those in Hades left in Hades?
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« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2011, 01:10:00 PM »

Is it fair to say that NOW, Bosom of Abraham (Paradise) as a reality does not exist. There is only Heaven and Hades ?

Correct.

Did the thief on the right side, go to Paradise (Bosom of Abraham) or to Heaven as you refer to above?

First he went with Christ do the "Paradise"* (the Bosom of Abraham), then, with the Old Testament saints -- to Heaven.

__________
* I'm using quotation marks because, as I wrote before, this name, when denoting the Bosom of Abraham, is used only by analogy to the real Paradise which was the Garden of Eden and which will the Garden of Eden restored, i.e., the Heavenly Jerusalem.
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Michał
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« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2011, 01:31:28 PM »

Another question, prior to the ressuruction of Christ, a person went to the Bosom of Abraham based on how good he was morally right? This would include Jew and Gentile? Or did only the sons of Abraham go to the Bosom of Abraham, and a gentile no matter how morally good he is still went to Hades?

I would say that the Bosom of Abraham was only for the children of Abraham, but God is able to raise children for Abraham from stones (cf. Luke 3:8), if He pleases, and -- I would say -- all the more from those gentiles who, "not having the Law, still through their own innate sense behave as the Law commands" (Romans 2:14). But that's just mine opinion.

With respect to Re: 2 did only those who were in Bosom of Abraham get transferred to Heaven? Were those in Hades left in Hades?

I'm sure they wanted to go with Christ and His saints to Heaven but that was not possible because, as Abraham said to the rich man, "between us (i.e., the righteous) and you (i.e., the sinners) a great gulf has been fixed, to prevent those who want to cross from our side to yours or from your side to ours" (Luke 16:26).
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 01:37:00 PM by Michał » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2011, 03:59:31 PM »

Heaven and hell exist right now but not in their final state.That will be at the Second Coming.

The thief on the cross was the first to enter in Heaven(Paradise).'Today thou shall be with Me in Paradise'.

'In the grave bodily, but in hades with Thy soul as God: in Paradise with the thief, and on the throne with the Father and the Spirit wast Thou Who fillest all things,. O Christ the Inexpressible.'

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« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2011, 05:52:42 PM »

Search google for Gospel of Nicodemus. There is a chapter there The descent of Jesus into Hades.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/gospelnicodemus.html
« Last Edit: July 30, 2011, 05:53:24 PM by pasadi97 » Logged
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