First off, I am happy to get so many responces so fast.
but before I say anything else I would like it to be known that everything I say is either Fact or my personal opinion, and I will usually convay my points with a bit of wit and humor (or the best I can mannage
). I am not here to make enemies or hurt peoples feeling.
but dispite my 'good intentions' when I am posting, I am also not going to tip toe around an issue just because it is a delecate matter. I will usually be quite blunt in my observations and am bound to step on a few toes in the process.
in short: no hard feelings.
also, given the level of content replied to my opening post, and given the number of...um... discrepencies that I have; I do not wish for this post to resemble a bull in a china shop, or for it to be just me ranting on about my
beliefes. so please read all of the points I present at face value and keep it in context to the Original question.
first and foremost: I would like to appologise to the Moderators for posting this thread in the 'Faith' section. being new to this forum I simply made a mistake. I guess it makes sence to sub-catigorise to that level with a forum of this size
trevor72694: here we go again...
Yes, I am quite sure that this question has presented itself before now. had I been looking in the right section I would have found one such thread and read over that. Although as stated, I was in the 'faith' section when I made this thread.
who would have thought that a question about faith wouldn't go into the faith section?
What follows shall be some random thoughts of potential insight...
- Part of the issue is one of authority. What part does the Church (e.g. Jn. 20:20-23) or the Clergy (e.g. Heb. 13:17) play, and what part just_some_guy? The Bible is not irrelevant, but it's not the only thing that's important in the Christian life.
- There wasn't a ton in the Bible about the subject because there didn't need to be. At that time/culture people it was not uncommon to get married in your early teen years, so there wasn't really even a chance to have a roll in the hay. And what chance there might have been was further diminished by the fact that most marriages were arranged. You were essentially off limits until you Dad made a deal with some other family.
- Most importantly: if a woman has sex before marriage she'll be damaged goods and it'll almost be impossible to provide a dowry large enough to compensate.
will keep this short:
1st point: not totally sure what you ment by this statement.
the church is a faith governed system based
on the teachings of the bible. without the Bible and/or direct word of God, anything the church does is irrelevent, empty 'traditions'. anything the church does with the Bible and/or direct word of God is worth noteing. however such actions should be kept in context, thus study of the Bible is still paramount.
as for the Clergy (spiritual leaders), there are so many different dominations, different interpritations, different meathods of teaching, and a few false rumours (from the world at large); that there are a few contradictions in the teachings of the bible.
have to sift through the mess and find what is 'true' and what to believe in, in order to find pease of mind. to me this requires the comparison and annalysis of different views. and thinking through the key points with both logic and a fundumental understanding of the topic at hand.
in other words "the Clergy" is an inconclusive reference point for me to base my beliefs on. Im not saying it is irrelevent, it is just not conclusive.
2nd point: interesting. does give me some more insite to the relevent society that made the Laws we still follow today.
however does not acctually go aginst premarital sex.
3rd point: this point you acctually got wrong.
YES, "if a woman has sex before marriage she'll be damaged goods "
but NO, "it'll almost be impossible to provide a dowry large enough to compensate. "
to best understand this situation think of the woman as a car (no offence intended). the Father made the car himself, with a bit of help from the Mother. the car is owned by the Father. the car grows up to be big and strong. when it comes time to sell the car to the Husband, if the car is damaged then the car is cheaper
. not more expencive as you implied.
IsmiLiora: "If you need to keep talking about it like this, you obviously had some sort of problem with it."
as stated in my Opening Post, my new found ideals go against what I was taught as a child. so to a degree - yes
but that does not mean that my new found ideals are wrong, or that the ideals I was taught as a child are wrong. it means I now have to clarify the issue. hence this thread...
GorazdIn conclusion, are you aware you are on an Orthodox Christian forum here? We don't do sola scriptura here. We don't interpret the Bible as we like.
No, we understand Christianity as it was understood in the first centuries. And then, it was clearly taught that sex outside marriage is completely inacceptable.
Yes I am. I am also aware that orthodox Christians are against premarital sex. thus I came to the logical conclution that an Orthodox Christian who spends their time discussing and debateing Christianity on an internet forum would be best qualified to state the 'against's for my question.
unfortunatly, although I DID find Orthodox Christians. and they DO discuss Christianity on an internet forum. it seems that Debateing
Christianity is beyond them. whether from having too high ideals or because they are just out of practice.
so far the statements I have recived mostly fall under one or more of these catigories:
- it doesn't matter what we say, you will only hear what you want to hear
- you have no right asking that sort of question on this site
- we follow tradition. and our traditions are right. anything that goes against our traditions, or challenges our traditions is wrong.
- premarital sex is simply wrong, every one knows that. no explanation required
- deep down you know, or your conscience knows, that it is wrong. what more of an explanation do you need
(actually this last point made me laugh, because even Asteriktos
made a logical counter argument to it)
I could give specific examples (yes, plural) to each one of these points. however there is really no need. for those who care to look for such posts are really not that hard to find.
speaking of posts, I think this one has dragged on long enough.