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Author Topic: Holy Christian Orthodox Church  (Read 831 times) Average Rating: 0
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Jharek Carnelian
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« on: April 11, 2011, 05:09:05 AM »

I have a question, is this group a valid Orthodox Church? Something feels wrong about them, I can't quite put my finger on it but if anyone here has heard of them I would very much appreciate some feedback:-

http://www.internationalbasilica.org/archbishop.html

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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2011, 05:16:42 AM »

No, they are not.
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Jharek Carnelian
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2011, 06:41:43 AM »

Thank you Michael. After asking I read their website in detail and it became evident they are not an apostolic Church as they talk of Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox all partaking of the Eucharist together.

I asked mainly as a fellow Catholic interested in converting to Orthodoxy asked me about them. I said I felt there was something wrong or suspicious about them.
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And then my heart hath told me:
These will pass,
Will pass and change, will die and be no more,
Things bright and green, things young and happy;
And I have gone upon my way
Sorrowful.

'The Wayfarer' Pádraig Anraí Mac Piarais
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2011, 09:03:11 AM »

When I saw the title to this thread I thought that was the group you were going to link to.

They are protestant.  They purchased a masonic hall to use as their church.  Once on the site this "Archbishop" was in full Orthodox Episcopal regalia sans the miter.  He was however, wearing a Russian wedding crown.  There was a letter from Patriarch Bartholomew on there which was sent to this group.  Most likely it was a cordial letter of good wishes.  Some groups use such things as a validation for their group.  They did have lots of Orthodox materials on their site.  They simply pick and choose.

Do your Catholic friends looking to Orthodoxy live near this group in MA?
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2011, 09:10:20 AM »

"The autocephalous movement." I like that. Grin Also, regarding them being Protestant, yep, and with much lulz: "The church is devoted to offering a place where the three major streams of Christianity (Catholic, Evangelical and Pentecostal) can worship together".
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« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2011, 09:28:49 AM »

Yeah I'm sure they would have been on the Ind-Movement site which is now long gone.
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Jharek Carnelian
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2011, 12:13:15 PM »

When I saw the title to this thread I thought that was the group you were going to link to.

They are protestant.  They purchased a masonic hall to use as their church.  Once on the site this "Archbishop" was in full Orthodox Episcopal regalia sans the miter.  He was however, wearing a Russian wedding crown.  There was a letter from Patriarch Bartholomew on there which was sent to this group.  Most likely it was a cordial letter of good wishes.  Some groups use such things as a validation for their group.  They did have lots of Orthodox materials on their site.  They simply pick and choose.

Do your Catholic friends looking to Orthodoxy live near this group in MA?

Yes it's someone I only know online. Something felt badly wrong, as I say after asking the question once I kept reading the site it became clear quite quickly this is in way a valid Orthodox Church. Their  website attempts to look as 'Orthodox' as possible by (as you say) having loads or Orthodox materials plastered all over the information section. But it felt fake and odd.

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And then my heart hath told me:
These will pass,
Will pass and change, will die and be no more,
Things bright and green, things young and happy;
And I have gone upon my way
Sorrowful.

'The Wayfarer' Pádraig Anraí Mac Piarais
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« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2011, 12:23:30 PM »

As one who has corresponded in the past with a number of members of the "autocephlas movement," pretty much everything on that page was a red flag, starting with the name of the "church."
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THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH
Jharek Carnelian
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« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2011, 12:29:35 PM »

Well the one's I'm more familiar with and which do raise red flags for me more quickly are some Irish and British ones. There is one particular Irish group which claims to the be 'Celtic Orthodox Church' and which talks about women priests been ordained 'in a true spirit of Orthodoxy' and whose founder is a defrocked Catholic priest who then tried to join the Orthodox Churches but left over many of the same issues he had in the Catholic faith regarding ordination of woman and his views that homosexuality is merely another form of 'lovign relations'.

They are irksome as of course Orthodoxy has grown in Ireland in recent years and they have tried to prey on that at times and make a false association between themselves and actual Orthodox Churches.
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And then my heart hath told me:
These will pass,
Will pass and change, will die and be no more,
Things bright and green, things young and happy;
And I have gone upon my way
Sorrowful.

'The Wayfarer' Pádraig Anraí Mac Piarais
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« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2011, 12:37:09 PM »

I am tres fascinated with this church! It looks like a black pentecostal church with robes! I used to attend a similar church (sans robes) briefly and it was in no way Orthodox.


I'm very tempted to contact them, at the very least, concerning the spelling errors on the website.
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« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2011, 02:04:43 PM »

Just a couple of miles away are several Orthodox Churches of different jurisdictions.

PM me if a list of Orthodox Churches in the same area is needed.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 02:07:44 PM by IXOYE » Logged
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« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2011, 02:13:39 PM »

I also think its funny how when there is a meeting of representatives of local churches the Roman Catholic bishop and Episcopal bishop, etc. will be there including people such as this "Archbishop" which may give some the notion that he is a legitimate "Archbishop."

The telephone book used to list them as "Holy Christian Orthodox Diocese" or something similar.
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Jharek Carnelian
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« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2011, 03:08:24 PM »

I've noticed these kind of Churches rely on that kind of 'legitimacy by association' as the site makes a big deal about this archbishop been a president of the ecumenical bishops movement etc. etc.
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And then my heart hath told me:
These will pass,
Will pass and change, will die and be no more,
Things bright and green, things young and happy;
And I have gone upon my way
Sorrowful.

'The Wayfarer' Pádraig Anraí Mac Piarais
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