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sprtslvr1973
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« on: April 06, 2011, 12:26:08 PM »


http://www.savedfromwhat.org/

This guy was standing on Georgia State's plaza this afternoon, simply reading the bible aloud. Wasn't pointing fingers or accusing people. I wonder why we don't see more Orthodox Christians do this or something like it...
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« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2011, 12:29:13 PM »

Perhaps because no one has been called or blessed to do it. Some people begin good work out of egoism, and it doesn't usually end well for them or others.
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« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2011, 12:30:23 PM »

There is the Willard Preacher, but as to why there are not more.... I'll leave that for another.

http://journeytoorthodoxy.com/2010/12/02/the-willard-preacher/#axzz1IkCaBp00
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« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2011, 12:34:57 PM »

Perhaps because no one has been called or blessed to do it. Some people begin good work out of egoism, and it doesn't usually end well for them or others.

Are you sying that this guy is guided by egoism? I don't think I would, btw. I have seen plenty of jackasses who scream at people while holding signs declaring the audience's going to hell, while contending for their own undeniable elected status/salvation. Those are the people who I worry about. This guy just read the Bible and handed me a track with the words "God Bless".
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« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2011, 12:50:01 PM »

Perhaps because no one has been called or blessed to do it. Some people begin good work out of egoism, and it doesn't usually end well for them or others.

Are you sying that this guy is guided by egoism? I don't think I would, btw. I have seen plenty of jackasses who scream at people while holding signs declaring the audience's going to hell, while contending for their own undeniable elected status/salvation. Those are the people who I worry about. This guy just read the Bible and handed me a track with the words "God Bless".

He could be. One can't really tell by appearances. In the Orthodox Church, AFAIK, we do things in a more orderly way. Someone who wants to do something like this should get a blessing from his spiritual father. That is one way to ensure that it is not egoism. Also, that way he will have the support of the Church.

One generally does not take on a work like this because one just wants to or one feels God is calling him to do it. One gets a blessing, one  asks permission of the spiritual authorities who will have to give account.
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« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2011, 10:52:59 AM »


http://www.savedfromwhat.org/

This guy was standing on Georgia State's plaza this afternoon, simply reading the bible aloud. Wasn't pointing fingers or accusing people. I wonder why we don't see more Orthodox Christians do this or something like it...

Looks very Protestant to me.  I watched the Saved from What? Ministries video, and the guy is pointing fingers left and right.  Roll Eyes

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« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2011, 11:55:00 AM »

They have pictures of flames on their website.
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« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2011, 02:38:25 PM »

They have pictures of flames on their website.

And an article from C.H. Spurgeon, one of the best-known Strict Baptist "fire and brimstone" preachers of 19th century Britain.
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« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2011, 03:36:31 PM »

There is the Willard Preacher, but as to why there are not more.... I'll leave that for another.

http://journeytoorthodoxy.com/2010/12/02/the-willard-preacher/#axzz1IkCaBp00

The Willard preacher is a good friend of mine, you should see him in action preaching on Penn State's main campus!
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« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2011, 12:18:49 PM »

They have pictures of flames on their website.
Hell is real. Though Orthodox pastors and such are not known for the F & B preaching, its not anathema here either.
For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI363U3uPN0&feature=channel_video_title
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« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2011, 12:26:47 PM »

They have pictures of flames on their website.
Hell is real. Though Orthodox pastors and such are not known for the F & B preaching, its not anathema here either.
For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI363U3uPN0&feature=channel_video_title

I have been around the Orthodox Church my whole life (57 years) and this clip of the Elder and what he was saying and the style he used did not strike me as being unusual from my experience and the homilies I am familiar with. More so from the 'old timers' in terms of theatrics when I was young, but not so for the message. Is it unusual in your experience? I am confused.
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« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2011, 05:11:48 PM »

I know that hell is real, but I've been around a lot of Baptists who make sure that I don't forget it (I even had some question the validity of me being saved because I didn't have an immersion baptism! Going to hell, party of one).

When I see big flames, GOD'S MESSAGE IN ALL CAPS, a lot of exclamation points, and overdone graphics, that is usually the message that I see. Not that I don't agree with ANY of it, but I don't like that kind of presentation. I didn't find God that way and I don't know many people who were scared and lectured into believing in God. S'all.
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« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2011, 12:39:13 AM »

I know that hell is real, but I've been around a lot of Baptists who make sure that I don't forget it (I even had some question the validity of me being saved because I didn't have an immersion baptism! Going to hell, party of one).

When I see big flames, GOD'S MESSAGE IN ALL CAPS, a lot of exclamation points, and overdone graphics, that is usually the message that I see. Not that I don't agree with ANY of it, but I don't like that kind of presentation. I didn't find God that way and I don't know many people who were scared and lectured into believing in God. S'all.

I never really understood this approach.  The same Christians who say that salvation is by grace alone, by faith alone, try to shock people into turning to Jesus. 
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« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2011, 06:50:59 AM »

I know that hell is real, but I've been around a lot of Baptists who make sure that I don't forget it (I even had some question the validity of me being saved because I didn't have an immersion baptism! Going to hell, party of one).

When I see big flames, GOD'S MESSAGE IN ALL CAPS, a lot of exclamation points, and overdone graphics, that is usually the message that I see. Not that I don't agree with ANY of it, but I don't like that kind of presentation. I didn't find God that way and I don't know many people who were scared and lectured into believing in God. S'all.

I never really understood this approach.  The same Christians who say that salvation is by grace alone, by faith alone, try to shock people into turning to Jesus. 

You know for quite a while I had begun to look at my own fire and brimstone conversion and see it as a form of Devil worship. I saw (and still see today) such a conversion as more liikely to focus on Satan rather than Christ. This has been described as fire insurance by others. I even went so far to repent to Christ of my 'false' conversion. However within the last year (I believe) I relayed this story to an Orthodox Christian Deacon, who himself stated that such a "Hellfire" conversion was probably legitimate as it inspired me to run to Jesus.
I think the rule of thumb may be balance. I'm glad F & B sermons aren't the staple that they appear to be in some churches, yet they can be beneficial on occasion. Sugarcoating everything isn't good either as I think we can all agree.


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« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2011, 07:03:11 AM »

I agree that many Evangelicals are going about things the wrong way. But if we're going to criticize their methods, then we should strive to be as zealous they are in reaching out to a lost and broken world with the message of Christ. And let us not forget than when we accuse these fundamentalists of "pointing fingers," we are guilty of pointing our fingers at them. There's lots of sin to point out for condemnation (namely within ourselves), but a guy publicly reading the Bible aloud is way down on my list of things to condemn. But hey, that's just me.


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« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2011, 07:28:12 AM »

I agree that many Evangelicals are going about things the wrong way. But if we're going to criticize their methods, then we should strive to be as zealous they are in reaching out to a lost and broken world with the message of Christ. And let us not forget than when we accuse these fundamentalists of "pointing fingers," we are guilty of pointing our fingers at them. There's lots of sin to point out for condemnation (namely within ourselves), but a guy publicly reading the Bible aloud is way down on my list of things to condemn. But hey, that's just me.


Selam
Amen.
 BTW, maybe it's because when I was a Protestant, the churches I associated with tended to be a little on the liberal side. But I am always a little surprised when I hear Orthodox Christians disassociate themselves from "Fundamentalism". To me, if Fundamentalism is defined as taking Scripture at face value so to speak, the Orthodox Church is definitely Fundamentalist. As the above poster said, that's just me.
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« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2011, 09:38:32 AM »

There's lots of sin to point out for condemnation (namely within ourselves), but a guy publicly reading the Bible aloud is way down on my list of things to condemn. But hey, that's just me.


Selam
I don't have an issue with a guy sharing the Bible with others. However - there is an issue of context and how to present it. Some evangelicals think that one size fits all, and I don't think that I agree with that.


No, I don't think that we should sugarcoat, either. But each person responds differently to certain verses, etc. Some of us like Mark's account more than we like John's. I would rather engage people on a personal level than hand out tracts and read the Bible out loud on campus.

A lot of non-Christian students/professors are familiar with certain parts of the Bible (namely the verses they hear over and over, such as those about homosexuality), and I think they need to see on an individual level what Christ's love has done for us.


I used to go to an evangelical church, and I am still reeling from what they did. They would push members to go prophesy in the supermarket and speak to everyone, every second about God. I still live with that guilt of not "witnessing" every second. But I think that God reaches different people different ways, and more people have approached me about my faith by just watching me read the Bible and talk about Church with a smile on my face. Who knows what way is right in the end? But that approach is not for me.
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« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2011, 09:51:29 AM »

But I am always a little surprised when I hear Orthodox Christians disassociate themselves from "Fundamentalism". To me, if Fundamentalism is defined as taking Scripture at face value so to speak, the Orthodox Church is definitely Fundamentalist. As the above poster said, that's just me.

To me, fundamentalism has more to do with an attitude than any particular doctrine or belief. It's a self-assurance to the point of infallibility, a tendency to see almost everything as being black-and-white,  along with an obnoxious communication method, that makes people fundamentalist. That they think things like "the Bible says what it means and means what it says" is just one of a thousand ideas that spring from the underlying attitude.
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« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2011, 10:23:54 AM »

But I am always a little surprised when I hear Orthodox Christians disassociate themselves from "Fundamentalism". To me, if Fundamentalism is defined as taking Scripture at face value so to speak, the Orthodox Church is definitely Fundamentalist. As the above poster said, that's just me.

To me, fundamentalism has more to do with an attitude than any particular doctrine or belief. It's a self-assurance to the point of infallibility, a tendency to see almost everything as being black-and-white,  along with an obnoxious communication method, that makes people fundamentalist. That they think things like "the Bible says what it means and means what it says" is just one of a thousand ideas that spring from the underlying attitude.

Great definition, and it does apply to more religious practices and writings than just the Bible for many.
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« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2011, 10:45:30 AM »

But I am always a little surprised when I hear Orthodox Christians disassociate themselves from "Fundamentalism". To me, if Fundamentalism is defined as taking Scripture at face value so to speak, the Orthodox Church is definitely Fundamentalist. As the above poster said, that's just me.

To me, fundamentalism has more to do with an attitude than any particular doctrine or belief. It's a self-assurance to the point of infallibility, a tendency to see almost everything as being black-and-white,  along with an obnoxious communication method, that makes people fundamentalist. That they think things like "the Bible says what it means and means what it says" is just one of a thousand ideas that spring from the underlying attitude.

Great definition, and it does apply to more religious practices and writings than just the Bible for many.

Many people seem to have this idea, but I don't think that's what it means. Liberals can be just as condescending and smug as well.
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« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2011, 10:57:49 AM »

T
I have been around the Orthodox Church my whole life (57 years) and this clip of the Elder and what he was saying and the style he used did not strike me as being unusual from my experience and the homilies I am familiar with. More so from the 'old timers' in terms of theatrics when I was young, but not so for the message. Is it unusual in your experience? I am confused.

I've seen this type of preaching in Orthodox curches. 
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« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2011, 11:03:48 AM »

Street preaching implies one has no 'non-religious' friends to be a good example for.  I think this is the real problem.  Many Christians of the 'street-preaching' have no social contacts outside their church.  So, they get out these to find more potentially like-minded folks.

The problem I see with most street preaching is that the people who are doing it generally don't come off as someone you would want to hang around very much.  They are aggressive and opinionated in a must-always-win way.  When I was in London, one of my favorite passtimes was Speaker's Corner.  There was one chap there who was very effective because he would talk to the audience and interact with them in a thoughtful way.  He had the largest crowds.  Of course, he was also not talking about Christianity.

Most people dislike Christianity because they see its members as being so smug that they lose all introspection and deny what is obvious.  Fundimentalism does the same thing: there is a loss of common sense that comes with perfect observation of what become disjoined rules.  The rules become the goal, rather than virtue.  Christians can easily become obsessed with 'sin' and forget the 'fruits.'

I occasionally engage in the new form of 'street preaching.'  I make videos and post them on YouTube.  They've helped a few folks, from what they tell me.  To be honest, it is much easier in many ways.
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« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2011, 02:25:37 PM »

I agree that many Evangelicals are going about things the wrong way. But if we're going to criticize their methods, then we should strive to be as zealous they are in reaching out to a lost and broken world with the message of Christ. And let us not forget than when we accuse these fundamentalists of "pointing fingers," we are guilty of pointing our fingers at them. There's lots of sin to point out for condemnation (namely within ourselves), but a guy publicly reading the Bible aloud is way down on my list of things to condemn. But hey, that's just me.


Selam
Amen.
 BTW, maybe it's because when I was a Protestant, the churches I associated with tended to be a little on the liberal side. But I am always a little surprised when I hear Orthodox Christians disassociate themselves from "Fundamentalism". To me, if Fundamentalism is defined as taking Scripture at face value so to speak, the Orthodox Church is definitely Fundamentalist. As the above poster said, that's just me.

I understand Fundamentalism as the reading of Scripture literalistically.  We as Orthodox Christians take Scripture literally, but we do not interpret every passage of Scripture in the literal sense alone. 
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« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2011, 02:50:11 PM »

Street preaching implies one has no 'non-religious' friends to be a good example for.  I think this is the real problem.  Many Christians of the 'street-preaching' have no social contacts outside their church.  So, they get out these to find more potentially like-minded folks.

The problem I see with most street preaching is that the people who are doing it generally don't come off as someone you would want to hang around very much.  They are aggressive and opinionated in a must-always-win way.  When I was in London, one of my favorite passtimes was Speaker's Corner.  There was one chap there who was very effective because he would talk to the audience and interact with them in a thoughtful way.  He had the largest crowds.  Of course, he was also not talking about Christianity.

Most people dislike Christianity because they see its members as being so smug that they lose all introspection and deny what is obvious.  Fundimentalism does the same thing: there is a loss of common sense that comes with perfect observation of what become disjoined rules.  The rules become the goal, rather than virtue.  Christians can easily become obsessed with 'sin' and forget the 'fruits.'

I occasionally engage in the new form of 'street preaching.'  I make videos and post them on YouTube.  They've helped a few folks, from what they tell me.  To be honest, it is much easier in many ways.


Good points.  

Something that I do not believe street preachers take into sufficient comprehensioin is that they generally are preaching in a post-Christian environment.  Many non-religious Westerners have a relativistic mindset, and the preachers' speaking in absolutes (you must repent for your sins, or suffer hellfire) tends to distance them rather than bring them closer to God, IMHO.  There needs to be some kind of common ground in communicating the Gospel.  I think Youtube is a good medium because it's not "in your face" as is street preaching, but at the same time it is open to a wide audience.      
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« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2011, 06:44:59 PM »

Street preaching implies one has no 'non-religious' friends to be a good example for.  I think this is the real problem.  Many Christians of the 'street-preaching' have no social contacts outside their church.  So, they get out these to find more potentially like-minded folks.

The problem I see with most street preaching is that the people who are doing it generally don't come off as someone you would want to hang around very much.  They are aggressive and opinionated in a must-always-win way.  When I was in London, one of my favorite passtimes was Speaker's Corner.  There was one chap there who was very effective because he would talk to the audience and interact with them in a thoughtful way.  He had the largest crowds.  Of course, he was also not talking about Christianity.

Most people dislike Christianity because they see its members as being so smug that they lose all introspection and deny what is obvious.  Fundimentalism does the same thing: there is a loss of common sense that comes with perfect observation of what become disjoined rules.  The rules become the goal, rather than virtue.  Christians can easily become obsessed with 'sin' and forget the 'fruits.'

I occasionally engage in the new form of 'street preaching.'  I make videos and post them on YouTube.  They've helped a few folks, from what they tell me.  To be honest, it is much easier in many ways.

Some good points. Can you please post a link to your youtube channel?
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« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2011, 10:48:35 PM »

I agree that many Evangelicals are going about things the wrong way. But if we're going to criticize their methods, then we should strive to be as zealous they are in reaching out to a lost and broken world with the message of Christ. And let us not forget than when we accuse these fundamentalists of "pointing fingers," we are guilty of pointing our fingers at them. There's lots of sin to point out for condemnation (namely within ourselves), but a guy publicly reading the Bible aloud is way down on my list of things to condemn. But hey, that's just me.


Selam
Amen.
 BTW, maybe it's because when I was a Protestant, the churches I associated with tended to be a little on the liberal side. But I am always a little surprised when I hear Orthodox Christians disassociate themselves from "Fundamentalism". To me, if Fundamentalism is defined as taking Scripture at face value so to speak, the Orthodox Church is definitely Fundamentalist. As the above poster said, that's just me.

I understand Fundamentalism as the reading of Scripture literalistically.  We as Orthodox Christians take Scripture literally, but we do not interpret every passage of Scripture in the literal sense alone. 

Neither do many self described Fundamentalists
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« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2011, 07:47:57 PM »

There is the Willard Preacher, but as to why there are not more.... I'll leave that for another.

http://journeytoorthodoxy.com/2010/12/02/the-willard-preacher/#axzz1IkCaBp00

The Willard preacher is a good friend of mine, you should see him in action preaching on Penn State's main campus!

He's my uncle...
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« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2011, 09:23:50 PM »

On that fellow's website, there is a sign that says:

JESUS - LORD OF ALL, OR HELL AWAITS YOU!

Seems pretty accusatory to me. Regarding the elder endorsing such tactics, give me a break. He is talking about the fear of God and the fear of death. If you take that as being as simple as "I sure am scared that God will send me to Hell", then I think you are missing some of the depth. The fear of death has to do with coming to grips with the fleeting nature of everything around us, even our own lives. It's more about living presently and intentionally that about being terrified into buying "fire insurance".

But then again, this guy has probably done more for God than I ever have. At least he's willing to get out of the boat, so I digress...
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