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Author Topic: is it my place to say something?  (Read 554 times) Average Rating: 0
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Tikhon.of.Colorado
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« on: April 04, 2011, 11:22:25 PM »

so, every year I go to Orthodox youth camps that my diocese holds.  there is always this "too cool for Church" guy who sleeps in and stumbles into liturgy just as the gospel is being read.  he always leaves his cap on.  he's the only guy in the whole make-shift Church with his head covered, which I've come to find out is quite the no-no.  I understand that in a perfect world every woman would wear a dress w/ her head covered, and every guy over 13 would have a beard and his head uncovered, but, come on!  it's not that hard to take off your hat when your in the presence of God. 

this really bothers me, and I'm wondering if I should say something to him.  I know I should first make myself stop judging others, but isn't it a trifle disrespectful for guys to wear hats in Church?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 11:22:42 PM by trevor72694 » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2011, 12:02:53 AM »

honestly, guys shouldn't be wearing hats inside in most circumstances, at all.  Smiley

yes, it's your place to say something.  ask him why he's such a troglodyte that he thinks it's cool to wear a hat indoors, let alone in church.
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« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2011, 12:26:39 AM »

The priest should remove the boy's hat for him. He can have it back after Liturgy and a stern lecture.
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« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2011, 12:27:54 AM »

The priest should remove the boy's hat for him. He can have it back after Liturgy and a stern lecture.

if only... Wink  .  as my priest would say, "that was back hen Churches were made of wood and priests were made of gold, not the other way around..."
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« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2011, 12:36:48 AM »

Every parish has someone like this. Learn to love them, and realize that, perhaps, God has placed him there to test you, and help humble you. If you haven't already, introduce yourself after Liturgy, and give him a big  hug. At least he is coming to Liturgy, albeit late.
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sainthieu
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« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2011, 01:40:02 AM »

"Yea, O Lord and King, grant me to see mine own faults and not to judge my brother. For blessed art Thou unto the ages of ages. Amen."
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« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2011, 10:19:14 AM »

Every parish has someone like this. Learn to love them, and realize that, perhaps, God has placed him there to test you, and help humble you. If you haven't already, introduce yourself after Liturgy, and give him a big  hug. At least he is coming to Liturgy, albeit late.

Exactly.

It's always a hard thing. On one hand, when a little old Greek lady told me, "Stand up, this is the most important part," when I, as an inquirer, was sitting during communion, I was offended at first, and then took it to heart. But, on the other hand, when I see other people sitting during communion, I think, "Well, maybe they can't stand." Or, if they're able-bodied, it just pains me. Maybe they would learn something if I or someone else told them to stand up, or maybe they would be totally offended and harden their hearts. I don't know. With this poor fellow, my advice would be not to tell him what to do unless you are his friend.

I remember an instructive episode from the life of Elder Porphyrios. A woman who was scantily dressed came to visit him. The Elder had a spiritual son, Mr. Niko, visiting him at the time. The woman went and talked with the elder, and Mr. Niko thought to himself, "Why doesn't the Elder tell this woman that she's dressed inappropriately?" It was a big problem for him. Then, after she left, the Elder said, "Mr. Niko, I'm afraid I am a bad spiritual father." "Oh, no, Elder! You're a good spiritual father," Mr. Niko said. "No, Mr. Niko. You saw that woman--how inappropriately dressed she was! And I didn't tell her that." Then Mr. Niko realized his error and asked the Elder to forgive him and the Elder said, "If I had told her she was inappropriately dressed at this point, it would've gone in one ear and out the other. She's not ready to hear it. Instead, I told her what she could understand and, little by little she will come to understanding and her conscience will correct her." And, later, the woman showed up  more properly dressed. This also happened through the Elder's prayers.

So, you see, we need discernment, which Elder Porphyrios definitely had. It may seem like a good solution to reprove someone for his behavior, but, if you don't know the whole picture, particularly what's going on in his soul, you could do more damage than good.

If you can find a way to encourage your brother, carefully and with love, you may be able to lead him to correct himself, which would, I think, be more profitable and sustainable than correcting him.
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« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2011, 11:10:01 AM »


Trevor, with the priest's permission, could you make a sign and post in on the entry door that could give basic rules upon entering the church?

For example: 

- Please turn off your cellphones
- Shoes must be worn
- Men please remove your hats
- No talking, etc.

This way it's not personally aimed at this young man.  Who knows...he truly may not know that hats are not to be worn by men inside the church.


 
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« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2011, 11:19:43 AM »


Trevor, with the priest's permission, could you make a sign and post in on the entry door that could give basic rules upon entering the church?

For example: 

- Please turn off your cellphones
- Shoes must be worn
- Men please remove your hats
- No talking, etc.

This way it's not personally aimed at this young man.  Who knows...he truly may not know that hats are not to be worn by men inside the church.


 

Yes, this is probably the best thing to do.  Disregard the previous suggestion of this curmudgeon!
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