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romanbyzantium
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« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2004, 11:17:57 PM »

And RB you should know that before the post-Vat II reforms, most converts to Catholcism from Protestantism were conditionaly baptized.

conditionally baptized does not mean re-baptisim.

I was condionally baptized by my priest at saint agnes in NYC. an I am sure that I was baptised as a baby.
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Ben
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« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2004, 11:22:36 PM »

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Well, I wonder if Ben is expressing a more "traditionalist" RC opinion.


Of course I am, however in this case the traditional Catholic opinion differs very little from the traditional Orthodox opinion.

Quote
And "Demons of Protestantism" is offensive and silly and unsupported.
 

I am sorry if it is offensive, and I really didn't mean to offend you, but there is no heresy, schism, or sin without Satan involved. This does not mean us humans have no free will or that we can blame everything on Satan, but every sin we commit is presented to us by demons, and when we fail and sin, we have been used by Satan to lash out against God. Heresy is a very dangerous thing, and is something that must be avoided at all costs. Heresy is not the work of God, period. And I am sorry, but Protestantism teaches and embraces serious heresy, and this includes *all* Protestant denominations.

Quote
Also, as an Anglican I refuse to be lumped together in an amorphous blob called "Protestantism" with for example JW's and Oneness groups.  


AFAIK, no one here said JW's were Protestant. I don' think they are even Christians!

Quote
You say "no doubt" there are demonic concepts and doctrines that are "demonic" Like what?"

Nektarios can speak for himself, but IMHO it depends on the denomination, for some are much more heretical than others. Protestantism is a broad term that includes a great variation of heretical ideas.
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« Reply #47 on: May 22, 2004, 11:24:17 PM »

I know, RB, that conditional Baptism is not the same as re-baptism, did you even read my post about conditional baptism?

If you were baptized, as a baby, in the Catholic Church, you preist made a serious error in conditionaly baptizing you.
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« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2004, 11:33:22 PM »

I know, RB, that conditional Baptism is not the same as re-baptism, did you even read my post about conditional baptism?

If you were baptized, as a baby, in the Catholic Church, you preist made a serious error in conditionaly baptizing you.

He coditionally baptized me because I could not produce my baptismal certificate which is somewhere in spain. I was never confirmed as a chld and I needed the certificate. He asked me to contact my family in spain to get me the certificate but unfortunately they no onger live in the town where I was baptized and for them to get their would have been a hardship.

so he condtionally baptised me.
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« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2004, 11:39:30 PM »

He coditionally baptized me because I could not produce my baptismal certificate which is somewhere in spain. I was never confirmed as a chld and I needed the certificate. He asked me to contact my family in spain to get me the certificate but unfortunately they no onger live in the town where I was baptized and for them to get their would have been a hardship.

so he condtionally baptised me.

Ah ok....I am sorry, I didn't have all the facts...please forgive me.
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« Reply #50 on: May 22, 2004, 11:47:14 PM »

Ah ok....I am sorry, I didn't have all the facts...please forgive me.

Ben,

there is nothing to forgive. I thought that I included that piece of information.
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« Reply #51 on: May 22, 2004, 11:47:30 PM »

Ok, I am asking for some very solicited advice.  

I have gotten a lead on a college where I would not have to pay anything. I would be a third generation student, so would have financial assistance that way and it is a "worker" college (students work for the college while studying and don't pay tuition). There education department (my current major) is considered among the best in the region. To top it off it would be close to family and only about 30-40 minutes from an Old Calander Orthodox Church. It would also help my brother who is attending a college where he pays almost 20 grand a year in tuition alone (he is studying to be a protestant minister--however heretical he may be I don't wish dept on him).

Now for the downside. It is a college affiliated with the Presbyterians and would require me to attend their chapel services six sundays a semester. It would also require I attend religion classes (which may not be a problem as I have already taken Comparitive World Religions and Old Testement Survey).

I am really at a loss, the first part is really good--but I don't know if I should be attending heretical school even with the benefits. I will email Father about it, but meanwhile I am asking for y'alls advice and opinions.

Joe Zollars

FREE TUITION?

So long as you don't have to take communion there...I dare say attending their service will only deepen your appreciation of Orthodox Liturgy. Imagine inviting a bunch of new college friends to Pascha! That will blow them away!

Go for it!

Exposure to this brand of Christianity should only serve to strengthen your own faith. It is also an opportunity to bare witness to people who would otherwise have no exposure to Orthodox Christianity!

My Parish is located literally right across the railroad tracks from an extremely conservative nationally known evangleical college....This has allowed for witness to people who otherwise might never have been exposed to Orthodox Christianity.


And as far as "demons" and other such nonsense.....Well as Orthodox Christians we might not believe other Christian Churches are correct...we can not however judge them as 100% wrong either. Grin


Go for it Joe!!!
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romanbyzantium
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« Reply #52 on: May 22, 2004, 11:51:18 PM »

FREE TUITION?

So long as you don't have to take communion there...I dare say attending their service will only deepen your appreciation of Orthodox Liturgy. Imagine inviting a bunch of new college friends to Pascha! That will blow them away!

Go for it!

Exposure to this brand of Christianity should only serve to strengthen your own faith. It is also an opportunity to bare witness to people who would otherwise have no exposure to Orthodox Christianity!

My Parish is located literally right across the railroad tracks from an extremely conservative nationally known evangleical college....This has allowed for witness to people who otherwise might never have been exposed to Orthodox Christianity.


And as far as "demons" and other such nonsense.....Well as Orthodox Christians we might not believe other Christian Churches are correct...we can not however judge them as 100% wrong either. Grin


Go for it Joe!!!

so he should betray his principle for money/free tuition.?

If I was him I wouldn't betray my principles. I would take out a student loan. This reminds me of Judas.

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Ben
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« Reply #53 on: May 22, 2004, 11:58:32 PM »



And as far as "demons" and other such nonsense.....Well as Orthodox Christians we might not believe other Christian Churches are correct...we can not however judge them as 100% wrong either. Grin



Demons are not "nonsense". My friend, evil is real, as is Satan and all of his works. I am not saying Protestantism is 100% wrong and evil, but Protestantism is founded upon heretical doctrines, that are not only contrary to Roman Catholic teaching, but also Orthodox teaching.

"Keep yourselves away from those evil plants that Jesus Christ does not tend. For they are not the planting of the Father. For as many as are of God and of Jesus Christ are also with the bishop......If anyone walks according to a strange opinion, he does not agree with the Passion."

"How much more will this be the case with anyone who by wicked doctrine corrupts the faith of God, for which Jesus Christ was crucified! Such a one becomes defiled. He will go away into everlasting fire, and so will everyone that listens to him."

 - Ignatius (c. 105)
 
"We call Heretics "empty", for they are destitute of the counsels of God and of the traditions of Christ. Their dogmas originate with themselves and are therfore bitter - like the wild almond." - Clement of Alexandria (c. 195)

"Let us rather be mindful of the sayings of the Lord, and of the letters of the Apostles. For they have told us berforehand that there will be heresies. And, in anticipation, they have given us warnings to avoid them." - Tertullian (c. 197)

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« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2004, 12:45:22 AM »

No they do not. conditionally is not rebaptising someone. you know this but you are being very dificult.   we are not donatist. and if you were baptized already and rocor rebaptises you then they are donatist. of course fringe groups like ROCOR like to dabble in heresy.   other regular orthodox churches do not rebaptise catholics but recieve them through christmation(sp).

Christ is the master of baptism and all sacraments. This should tell you something.

oh please.  Yes Romans did baptize people before the V2 reforms.  And for that matter, many in so called "regular" Orthodox Churches do baptize converts.  I know there is at least one OCA Priest for instance stating that someone who has not been baptized using the proper formula and by triple immersion, than the person is just plain unbaptized and needs to be Baptized in order to become Orthodox.  

And even if a so called "regular" Orthodox church recieved someone without "re"Baptizing them,  then it would not be through just Chrismation but by a process known as Eikonomia by which the Orthodox Church fills in the grace missing from a heterodox baptism.  No so called "regular" Orthodox who knows the theology would say that a heterodox baptism was ostensibly a true baptism.  Now, the Orthodox Church does not have a formal position on this, but many believe that heterodox baptisms accomplish little more than getting wet.  And even in almost all so called "regular" Orthodox Churches one can bypass the whole Eikonomia stuff and just request to be Baptized.

Joe Zollars
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« Reply #55 on: May 23, 2004, 12:46:36 AM »

oh and one more thing RB, ROCOR is not fringe.  ROCOR is like the largest Russian group in this country and is generally recognized by all ORthodox as being ORthodox.  Its also in communion with the Serbian Church and with the Jerusalem Patriarchate.

Joe Zollars
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« Reply #56 on: May 23, 2004, 12:48:33 AM »

RB, what "principles" would Joe be betraying by attending this college.  It does not require him to swear allegience to the founding denomination.  It does not require him to join the said denomination.  It does not require him to take theology/religion courses.  Being in the chapel somehow betrays principles? Presbyterian Mind control devices, mayhap? Would such principles be betrayed if Joe attends a wedding or funeral in a Presbyterian Chapel?  

When the point of the exercise is a first rate education in a chosen field with an EO parish much closer then is the case currently for Joe, why couldn't God use this school to Joe's benefit?

Ebor
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« Reply #57 on: May 23, 2004, 12:51:09 AM »

oh please.  Yes Romans did baptize people before the V2 reforms.  And for that matter, many in so called "regular" Orthodox Churches do baptize converts.  I know there is at least one OCA Priest for instance stating that someone who has not been baptized using the proper formula and by triple immersion, than the person is just plain unbaptized and needs to be Baptized in order to become Orthodox.  

And even if a so called "regular" Orthodox church recieved someone without "re"Baptizing them,  then it would not be through just Chrismation but by a process known as Eikonomia by which the Orthodox Church fills in the grace missing from a heterodox baptism.  No so called "regular" Orthodox who knows the theology would say that a heterodox baptism was ostensibly a true baptism.  Now, the Orthodox Church does not have a formal position on this, but many believe that heterodox baptisms accomplish little more than getting wet.  And even in almost all so called "regular" Orthodox Churches one can bypass the whole Eikonomia stuff and just request to be Baptized.

Joe Zollars

umm.. I thought that christ was the master of baptism and all sacraments. I didn't know that there are orthodox churches that need to fill the missing grace that jesus could give. I didn't know that jesus' grace was lacking?
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« Reply #58 on: May 23, 2004, 12:52:57 AM »

oh and one more thing RB, ROCOR is not fringe.  ROCOR is like the largest Russian group in this country and is generally recognized by all ORthodox as being ORthodox.  Its also in communion with the Serbian Church and with the Jerusalem Patriarchate.

Joe Zollars

I thought that ROCOR was schimatic? that they were not recognized by some churches. or was that OCA? I need to
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« Reply #59 on: May 23, 2004, 12:55:11 AM »

so he should betray his principle for money/free tuition.?

If I was him I wouldn't betray my principles. I would take out a student loan. This reminds me of Judas.



I am not and would not betray my principles.  I would not go to the college for the free tuition.  I would be going to the college becuase  it literally is the best for my major in the area, and among the best in the country according to a great many.  

Joe Zollars
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« Reply #60 on: May 23, 2004, 01:00:21 AM »

umm.. I thought that christ was the master of baptism and all sacraments. I didn't know that there are orthodox churches that need to fill the missing grace that jesus could give. I didn't know that jesus' grace was lacking?

because many of us are unsure whether or not Catholics even have grace.  Most all are quite sure that Rome does not have the fullness of Grace as it is in heresy.  If heresy had no effect on grace, there would be no need for a person to convert from protestantism to catholicism or orthodoxy.  

You seem to be suffering under a very western approach to this subject.  Many Orthodox, including myself as a lowly catechumen, would hold that grace-filled mysteries are not guaranteed outside the Orthodox Church.  There is but one Mystery, the Church and what she does.  

By Eikonomia the Church fills in whatever grace may be missing from the heterodox baptism.  it is the same thought pattern as with conditional baptism.  

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« Reply #61 on: May 23, 2004, 01:03:28 AM »

I thought that ROCOR was schimatic? that they were not recognized by some churches. or was that OCA? I need to

ROCOR is generally recognized by all as being Orthodox, although there are a few kooks here and there in groups such as the GOA and OCA and AOA who do not recognize ROCOR as being Orthodox.  

OCA is viewed with suspicion by some (including the Oecumenical Patriarch) because it was in schism for a great many years (it originally broke from ROCOR) before coming under the Omophorion of the Patriarch of Moscow and being granted Autocephaly.  

Most however recognize the OCA as being Orthodox.  The difference is whehter or not it is recognized as a synod in its own right or merely the american branch of the MP.  

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« Reply #62 on: May 23, 2004, 01:08:32 AM »

BTW, I just have to agree with Ebor 100%.  Anglicans by and large cannot be described as Protestants, at least not all of them.  Some cannot even be described as Christians using the most liberal use of the term as possible.  and then some cannot be described by the word heathen or the word protestant.  

Since the Elizabethean Settlement, it has become increasingly difficult to lump all Anglicans together, let alone lump Anglicans with the rest of Protestantism.   Personally in my view, there are four general groupings in the Christian World, namely Orthodoxy, the Roman Church (and its dependencies), Anglicanism (and its dependencies) and Protestantism (and its vast spectrum).  Now before a certain member of a real fringe group reads this and starts thinking I believe in the branch theory, I do not as evidenced by my ardent support of doing away with the process of Oeikonomia entirely and recieving all converts by Baptism.

Joe Zollars
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« Reply #63 on: May 23, 2004, 01:14:14 AM »

RB, when I met with an OCA priest he told me I would be baptized in his church if I become Orthodox, because in my Protestant Baptism, I was only dunked once, and despite the fact that I was baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, the fact that I was only dunked only once made the baptism invalid. And OCA is a mainstream as you can get with Orthodoxy.

As for ROCOR, I have yet to find an Orthodox Christian who believes ROCOR not to be Orthodox. And I have only found a few who believe it to be schismatic, but this was due their their ignorance on the issue. As for OCA, if I am correct it did break off from ROCOR, and was schismatic.
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« Reply #64 on: May 23, 2004, 01:20:26 AM »

because many of us are unsure whether or not Catholics even have grace.

Joe....

Every Orthodox priest I have spoken with (with the exception of Fr. George) were sure that Catholics have grace.
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« Reply #65 on: May 23, 2004, 02:35:51 AM »

Demons(c. 197)



Oh I do not deny the existence fo Satan and his demons....what I find to be "nonsense" is you admonishing Joe about the "demons" of protestant services...come on.


There's some pretty scary stuff going on in some protestant denominations...Heck there's scary stiff going on in the RCC and sopme Orthodox Parishes I m sure.....but I think your perspective on this is a bit "over the top".
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« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2004, 03:36:47 AM »

well Ben, many Orthodox believe Romans to have Grace.  (I am personally unsure on the matter and leave it up to my priest and vladyka)  But I have yet to come across more than five who would go so far as to say that Romans have the fullness of Grace and 100% grace-filled Mysteries.  Most believe that while some grace exists in rome, for the full enchilada you must be Orthodox.  I am inclined to agree, but as stated above am unsure as to my own position.  

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« Reply #67 on: May 23, 2004, 07:37:06 AM »

BTW, I just have to agree with Ebor 100%.  Anglicans by and large cannot be described as Protestants, at least not all of them.  Some cannot even be described as Christians using the most liberal use of the term as possible.  and then some cannot be described by the word heathen or the word protestant.  

Thank you, Joe!  (Asssuming that I read correctly and you mean that *some* of the Anglicans *are* Christian  Smiley )  It was getting discouraging.  

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« Reply #68 on: May 23, 2004, 02:49:18 PM »

No they do not. conditionally is not rebaptising someone. you know this but you are being very dificult.   we are not donatist. and if you were baptized already and rocor rebaptises you then they are donatist. of course fringe groups like ROCOR like to dabble in heresy.   other regular orthodox churches do not rebaptise catholics but recieve them through christmation(sp).

Dear RB,

After reading your latest remarks, culminating in the remarks above, it is becoming clear to me that my initial opinion of you, as an individual interested in learning more about Orthodoxy, but with certain linguistic issues which make it hard for you to express what you are really getting at without unintentionally offending people, was wrong.  You better watch out, buddy, because you're on thin ice.  You pipe in with cheap shots at the Church, and when people call you on it, you plead sincerity and throw it back at them; I was willing to entertain that before, but not anymore.  You're here merely to be a pest.  Very well.  

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Christ is the master of baptism and all sacraments. This should tell you something.

It doesn't tell me anything at all, since it is not at all clear that Christ is with the Roman Catholic Church.  

I can be polemical, too.
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« Reply #69 on: May 23, 2004, 04:00:46 PM »

Ebor....

No one here said the Anglicans wern't Christians. You can be a heretic and a Christian. Protestantism is heretical Christianity, a twisted and heretical form of Christianity.
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« Reply #70 on: May 23, 2004, 04:08:21 PM »

Thank you, Joe!  (Asssuming that I read correctly and you mean that *some* of the Anglicans *are* Christian  Smiley )  It was getting discouraging.  

Ebor

Yes some are.  Some are so close to Orthodoxy, it amazes me they don't break with the anglican communion, organize as a seperate body, and petition the Oecumenical Patriarch.   But I guess that the Anglicna Communion can be a place for them what with the Elizabethean Settleent and all.

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« Reply #71 on: May 23, 2004, 04:10:59 PM »

Dear RB,

After reading your latest remarks, culminating in the remarks above, it is becoming clear to me that my initial opinion of you, as an individual interested in learning more about Orthodoxy, but with certain linguistic issues which make it hard for you to express what you are really getting at without unintentionally offending people, was wrong.  You better watch out, buddy, because you're on thin ice.  You pipe in with cheap shots at the Church, and when people call you on it, you plead sincerity and throw it back at them; I was willing to entertain that before, but not anymore.  You're here merely to be a pest.  Very well.  It doesn't tell me anything at all, since it is not at all clear that Christ is with the Roman Catholic Church.  

I can be polemical, too.  

what are you talking about ? what cheap shots?

1. Does it bother you, me saying that if ROCOR rebaptize people it is dabbling in the donatist heresy? and if you missed it,I said that other orthodox churches recieve catholics by christmation(sp). So no, I was not taking a ceap shop at any church.

It is most unfortunate that you took my comment out of context. I was comparing/contrasting the practice of rebaptizing to the settlement of the donatist heresy. That is all.

2. What do you think the donatist heresy is? The question about rebaptising was settled a longtime ago.

3. Does it bother you that I said that ROCOR is a finge group?  That is what many orthodox say. I am just repeating what they are saying.


Just tell me not to question anything about orthodox.







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« Reply #72 on: May 23, 2004, 04:25:29 PM »

RB,

Sometimes you can be offensive, but I really don't know if you mean it, or if you are just sincere. People around here can be a little sensitive, but try to be careful.
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« Reply #73 on: May 23, 2004, 04:27:06 PM »

RB,

Sometimes you can be offensive, but I really don't know if you mean it, or if you are just sincere. People around here can be a little sensitive, but try to be careful.

Do you think what I said in regards to the donatist heresy was offensive?
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« Reply #74 on: May 23, 2004, 04:32:24 PM »

Not really, but I don't think you would have made such a comment if you understood Orthodoxy, and the Orthodox position on baptism and grace. Perhaps it is your ignorance that offends some here.
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« Reply #75 on: May 23, 2004, 04:41:30 PM »

Not really, but I don't think you would have made such a comment if you understood Orthodoxy, and the Orthodox position on baptism and grace. Perhaps it is your ignorance that offends some here.

YOu think Shocked

I think that it is a case of don't question orthodoxy. which is fine. They only have to say so.

btw, I do understand orthodoxy. I when I don't understand something, I ask for clarification. But then i get accussed of having an agenda.

people always want to write everything of with :" you just don't understand.. "
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« Reply #76 on: May 23, 2004, 04:45:22 PM »

well, RB it is becuase you don't understand as evidenced by your posts and objections to Orthodoxy, which most of the ORthodox I have talked to find laughable.

ROCOR a fringe group? I am still laughing over this one

Joe Zollars
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« Reply #77 on: May 23, 2004, 04:52:12 PM »

well, RB it is becuase you don't understand as evidenced by your posts and objections to Orthodoxy, which most of the ORthodox I have talked to find laughable.

ROCOR a fringe group? I am still laughing over this one

Joe Zollars

what don't I understand about orthodoxy, joe?

Come on joe, you know that there are orthodox that consider ROCOR to be a fringe fanatical group. Don't act like if they don't exist because we both know that they do.

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« Reply #78 on: May 23, 2004, 04:56:26 PM »

Romanbyzantium,

The Donatist heresy raised the issue of those who had been baptised in the Church, but had susequently apostasized.

That is not the same issue as is raised by what ROCOR and many other Orthodox do when they insist on the baptism of former Catholics, etc.

 Those Orthodox who insist on such baptisms do not recognize Roman Catholicism as part of the Apostolic and Catholic Church, and do not, therefore, regard the sacraments carried out by Roman Catholic priests as valid.  In other words, they do not believe they are "re-baptising," because they do not believe those catachists were ever truly baptised in the first place.

That position may be hard for Roman Catholics to hear (just as it is hard for me to hear Roman Catholics describe the Orthodox as "schismatics"), but the position is generally not intended as a personal insult.

That said, I do not personally question the judgment of my Archbishop, who generally insists that anyone baptised with water according to the traditional Trinitarian formula be received through Chrismation.

While my jurisdiction generally disagrees with ROCOR on this question, I do not think the matter is self-evident, or that it is fair to belittle those who embrace a position different than our own.
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« Reply #79 on: May 23, 2004, 05:00:05 PM »

good post Ambrose!

yes there are people who consider ROCOR to be a fringe group, but they are few and far between.  There are more people who consider OCA  a fringe group (including the Oecumenical Patriarch)  given its long haitus in Schism and then getting autocephaly almost immediatly upon being recieved under the Omophorion of hte ROC-MP.

Joe Zollars

Joe Zollars
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« Reply #80 on: May 23, 2004, 05:02:33 PM »

Romanbyzantium,

The Donatist heresy raised the issue of those who had been baptised in the Church, but had susequently apostasized.

That is not the same issue as is raised by what ROCOR and many other Orthodox do when they insist on the baptism of former Catholics, etc.

 Those Orthodox who insist on such baptisms do not recognize Roman Catholicism as part of the Apostolic and Catholic Church, and do not, therefore, regard the sacraments carried out by Roman Catholic priests as valid.  In other words, they do not believe they are "re-baptising," because they do not believe those catachists were ever truly baptised in the first place.

That position may be hard for Roman Catholics to hear (just as it is hard for me to hear Roman Catholics describe the Orthodox as "schismatics"), but the position is generally not intended as a personal insult.

That said, I do not personally question the judgment of my Archbishop, who generally insists that anyone baptised with water according to the traditional Trinitarian formula be received through Chrismation.

While my jurisdiction generally disagrees with ROCOR on this question, I do not think the matter is self-evident, or that it is fair to belittle those who embrace a position different than our own.

To which I responded that " Christ is the master of baptism and all the sacraments" The donatist heresy is very interesting reading indeed.

another thing. when the east was Monophysite, were their priest graceless, were their eucharist graceless, etc.

did they know that they were not part of the church. did they know that their baptism was not valid. when exactly did the orthodox get the grace back?
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« Reply #81 on: May 23, 2004, 05:05:04 PM »

good post Ambrose!

yes there are people who consider ROCOR to be a fringe group, but they are few and far between.  There are more people who consider OCA  a fringe group (including the Oecumenical Patriarch)  given its long haitus in Schism and then getting autocephaly almost immediatly upon being recieved under the Omophorion of hte ROC-MP.

Joe Zollars

Joe Zollars

Notice how again you changed your story.

I posted that some orthodox consider ROCOR to be a gringe group. You responded with the following:"ROCOR a fringe group? I am still laughing over this one"

Now that Ambrose came into play, you change your story to: " yes there are people who consider ROCOR to be a fringe group, but they are few and far between"

So, which one is it, Joe?
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« Reply #82 on: May 23, 2004, 05:05:53 PM »

It is not Donatism to baptize someone who had never been Baptized in the Church.

Joe Zollars
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« Reply #83 on: May 23, 2004, 05:06:44 PM »

what are you talking about ? what cheap shots?

1. Does it bother you, me saying that if ROCOR rebaptize people it is dabbling in the donatist heresy? and if you missed it,I said that other orthodox churches recieve catholics by christmation(sp). So no, I was not taking a ceap shop at any church.

It is most unfortunate that you took my comment out of context. I was comparing/contrasting the practice of rebaptizing to the settlement of the donatist heresy. That is all.

2. What do you think the donatist heresy is? The question about rebaptising was settled a longtime ago.

3. Does it bother you that I said that ROCOR is a finge group?  That is what many orthodox say. I am just repeating what they are saying.


Just tell me not to question anything about orthodox.









For proabably at least the third time, I have yet to see you apologize or act in a humble way about ANYTHING or ANYONE on this forum.  Respect the Moderators and their rules.  They run the forum and can kick you out an anytime.
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« Reply #84 on: May 23, 2004, 05:08:36 PM »

please I never denied that there were people who thought like that and if you had bothered to actually read the posts earlier in this thread you would know that I have even admitted it to be so, but such people are always laughable in my opinion and are few and far between.  You could ask all the OCA people on this forum if they thought that ROCOR was a fringe group and not Orthodox.  Most, it seeems to me at least, would laugh that off.

Joe Zollars
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« Reply #85 on: May 23, 2004, 05:12:04 PM »

For proabably at least the third time, I have yet to see you apologize or act in a humble way about ANYTHING or ANYONE on this forum.  Respect the Moderators and their rules.  They run the forum and can kick you out an anytime.

Elisha,

what have I done? please show me?

I do respect the moderators and their rules. If I am goint to be accussed of something then I should be able to see what I did wrong.

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« Reply #86 on: May 23, 2004, 05:14:38 PM »

It is not Donatism to baptize someone who had never been Baptized in the Church.

Joe Zollars

Then pray tell what was the donatist heresy all about.

Those people apostatized from the church. they were out of the church. just like some orthodox regard us catholics. what makes them any different than us. according to you we both apostatized.
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« Reply #87 on: May 23, 2004, 05:17:06 PM »

please I never denied that there were people who thought like that and if you had bothered to actually read the posts earlier in this thread you would know that I have even admitted it to be so, but such people are always laughable in my opinion and are few and far between.  You could ask all the OCA people on this forum if they thought that ROCOR was a fringe group and not Orthodox.  Most, it seeems to me at least, would laugh that off.

Joe Zollars

Then explain this comment of yours:  "ROCOR a fringe group? I am still laughing over this one"
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« Reply #88 on: May 23, 2004, 05:35:47 PM »

RB,

Hmmm I'm usually an observer on these types of threads (and most for that matter Smiley), but I'm pretty sure JoeZollars addressed his comment in the very same post you quoted:

Quote
Quote from: JoeZollars on Today at 05:08:36 PM
please I never denied that there were people who thought like that and if you had bothered to actually read the posts earlier in this thread you would know that I have even admitted it to be so, but such people are always laughable in my opinion and are few and far between.  You could ask all the OCA people on this forum if they thought that ROCOR was a fringe group and not Orthodox.  Most, it seeems to me at least, would laugh that off.

Joe Zollars
 
 

Then explain this comment of yours:  "ROCOR a fringe group? I am still laughing over this one"

If you notice, in Joe's opinion, people who view ROCOR as a fringe group, though they do exist few and far between, are "laughable." He goes on to say that most OCA Orthodox he knows, it seems to him, would "laugh that off." Now, call me crazy, but I think Joe has fully addressed what he meant when he said "ROCOR a fringe group? I am still laughing over this one," so there is nothing for Joe to explain.

I assure you, I am not being obnoxious by pointing this out, only trying to stop the problem before it gets bigger than it already is, and all over miscommunication.

:::my humble attempt at peace-making:::

Smiley
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hmmmm...
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« Reply #89 on: May 23, 2004, 05:47:20 PM »

RB,

Hmmm I'm usually an observer on these types of threads (and most for that matter Smiley), but I'm pretty sure JoeZollars addressed his comment in the very same post you quoted:If you notice, in Joe's opinion, people who view ROCOR as a fringe group, though they do exist few and far between, are "laughable." He goes on to say that most OCA Orthodox he knows, it seems to him, would "laugh that off." Now, call me crazy, but I think Joe has fully addressed what he meant when he said "ROCOR a fringe group? I am still laughing over this one," so there is nothing for Joe to explain.

I assure you, I am not being obnoxious by pointing this out, only trying to stop the problem before it gets bigger than it already is, and all over miscommunication.

:::my humble attempt at peace-making:::

Smiley

Of course Donna, that was after ambrose gave his view on the matter. His first post to me expressed his feelings about ROCOR not being a fringe group. That is why he said ""ROCOR a fringe group? I am still laughing over this one"


He changed it after ambrose came in.  If he clearly meant what he said on subsequent posts he would have stated it on the post addressed to me.  But he did because it was so laughable that some orthodox consider rocor a fringe group.
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