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Author Topic: Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Goshen, IN no longer Ukrainian  (Read 3972 times) Average Rating: 3
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LizaSymonenko
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« Reply #45 on: April 14, 2011, 07:41:06 PM »



  Zapovit, is also great...

ZAPOVIT:

As Soon I die , You should to buried Me, in grave in place, where I can see  blood of enemy of Ukraine would be carry away by river Dnepr into black see, after that I will go to God for pray, but until it take place – I wish to do not know the God.
T.G. Shevchenko

What part of it you think is “great”?


This is the zapovit I am referring to:


Як умру, то поховайте
Мене на могилі
Серед степу широкого
На Вкраїні милій,
Щоб лани широкополі,
І Дніпро, і кручі
Було видно, було чути,
Як реве ревучий.

Поховайте та вставайте,
Кайдани порвіте
І вражою злою кров’ю
Волю окропіте.
І мене в сем’ї великій,
В сем’ї вольній, новій,
Не забудьте пом’янути
Незлим тихим словом.

Translated to mean something like this (only it flows and rhymes much better in Ukrainian):

When I die, bury
Me in a grave
In the middle of the wide steppe
In my gentle Ukraine,
So that the vast fields
And the Dnipre River and slopes
One can hear, one can see
As it roars (referring to the river.)

Bury me and rise  up
Break your chains
And with courageous blood
Freedom gain.
And me, in the large family
In the free and new family,
Don’t forget to remember me
With a quiet and peaceful word.

I was never aware of the line you quoted...although I have searched and found that you are correct, there is such a version.  We NEVER sing that, and it was news to me.

However, before you judge the author of those words, you need to know in what situation he found himself at the time.  The man was imprisoned, tortured, belittled...all for being Ukrainian.   You cannot judge the desperation he found himself in - cold, alone, hungry and imprisoned simply for want of freedom.  His whole life was one tragedy after another...after another...after...

Who of us has never sinned?  Don't judge him.  We are not worthy to judge this man.  Until you have suffered as he did, and found yourself to be as desperate and lost...you cannot possibly understand his words.

However, let it be known that those lines have never, ever, been repeated in my life.  I have never heard them, until I searched and found them.  They are never part of the Zapovit that we remember on his memorial day.

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Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria
LizaSymonenko
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« Reply #46 on: April 14, 2011, 07:50:04 PM »

Our churches here in the US were founded by Ukrainian people for the worship of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who is our Hope and our Salvation.

It was presented as worship of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who is our Hope and our Salvation….

Them may do it within any recognised Orthodox community. But it not suit them.
Them need special “Ukrainian one” – pride.


...actually they prayed in Ukrainian, because that was the ONLY language they could speak.  I suppose they could have just stood there and babbled nonsense...but, I think it's more prudent to understand the prayer you are reciting.





What happens inside the church should be the worship of Jesus Christ and the reception of the Holy Mysteries, not cultural presentations. I have known of parishes that have held panakhydas for Ukrainian patriots: Shevchenko, Petliura, Kytasty, and so on. The remembrance of our deceased relatives, friends, cultural figures, patriots is very important. However, Shevchenko programs should be held in church halls, as should dance concerts, pysanka festivals, bandura concerts, and the like.
what reletion you with:
- Shevchenko,
- Petliura,
- Kytasty

to pray for them?

Ukrainian patriotizm have no thing to do with Ukrainian Orthodoxy, to make offical church rememberensy. If it you relatives and you do personal petition i do appritiate, but official church memorial for what?


dance concerts in church...... madness.


Shevchenko, Petlura, etc...are national heroes, just like George Washington, Lincoln is to America....or King Richard and Shakespeare to Britain.  We honor them as such...however, nobody has EVER prayed to these men.  What in the world are you talking about?

Are they our relatives?  Maybe, maybe not.  What difference does it make?  We pray for all our dead.  We also prayer for the millions killed in the genocide Holodomor, those who perished under Soviet stupidity that lead to Chornobyl, we pray for the young students who died in Kruty...in an attempt to stop the Russian advance upon their homeland....we pray for my grandmother, my grandfather, my uncle...and all Ukrainians....and ALL Orthodox living and deceased.
Again...you are so confused.

As for "dance concerts in church"....huh?  What are you talking about?

Nobody ever dances in our churches...nor holds any concerts.

I think you need an education before you keep posting...and only make a bigger fool of yourself, than you seem now.

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Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria
LizaSymonenko
Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
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Toumarches
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« Reply #47 on: April 15, 2011, 12:46:30 PM »


She and others have been surprised before as approximately 1 year ago, Bishop Daniel approved the sign "Holy Trinity Ukrainian Orthodox Church" be taken down. Eyewitnesses added that they tossed it in a dumpster and put up a new one without the word "Ukrainian".....


I was going to leave resting dogs...to rest.

However, after a number of PM's I have received, I would like to make one more ditch effort to make it clear to the readers of this thread that the initial post is composed of falsehoods.

The proof is in the pudding.

Please see the attached photo (the pudding) of only one example of the lie being perpetuated.  The supposed sign that was thrown unceremoniously in to the dumpster, still stands, and still says "Ukrainian Orthodox".

I don't know what you people want to achieve by slinging false accusations at the UOC.

I can only imagine these are the purple demons utilizing you to get to their own vile goals of destroying Orthodoxy. 

Don't let your heart lead your actions....use your brains.  The heart is too passionate, this calls for logic, not passion.  Take a step back and think before you act.  Your actions in defending "Ukraine", are not only hurting her, but, hurting Orthodoxy.

It is not Ukraine that has come to the aid of millions of suffering Ukrainians - it was the Lord.  It is not the piece of land that helped the Ukrainian people persevere through all manner of hardship and persecution - but, the Lord.  It was not Ukraine that managed to have the communist hold melt away as gently as wax before a flame - but the Lord.  We have only achieved our successes with the Lord's help. 

In the end it will not be Ukraine that will grant you (hopefully) eternal salvation - but, the Lord.

Keep your eye on the Lord, and all things are possible.

Put GOD first....and Ukraine will reap the benefits.  Put Ukraine first, and Ukraine is lost.

I truly understand where you are coming from and where you are trying to go, but, I cannot agree with your methods of getting there.

Peace and love to all.

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Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria
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