Author Topic: Supporting the Western Rite  (Read 2221 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ICXCNIKA

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 899
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: ROCOR-WR
Supporting the Western Rite
« on: December 14, 2016, 06:38:31 PM »
Hi all,

I know over the course of the years I have talked to other members on this forum who like myself are members of the Eastern Rite but are supportive of the Western Rite. I really wish there was a WR parish/mission near me.

What can we do to help it grow? I for one am going to start making a small monthly contribution to the WR. If anyone has any other ideas I would be glad to hear it.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,322
  • Faith: Orthodox Catholic Church
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2016, 07:02:02 PM »
Is there any liturgical training offered in seminaries for the Western Rite? If not, that's one way to support it. Teach priests to celebrate in both forms.
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline ICXCNIKA

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 899
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: ROCOR-WR
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2016, 08:17:04 PM »
Is there any liturgical training offered in seminaries for the Western Rite? If not, that's one way to support it. Teach priests to celebrate in both forms.

I don't know too much about the AWRV. I think that both WRV's have courses available regarding Orthodox Theology but I am thinking that actual liturgical training for the WR is done in house. I could be wrong but I think the priests of the RWRV are encouraged to also learn the ER which to me makes a great deal of sense.

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Strategos
  • ******************
  • Posts: 41,268
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2016, 08:38:06 PM »
Greater awareness would be key. However, that would run up against the hurdle of opposition to it (look at the diktat of the GOA bishop in SF a while back on this issue).
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ICXCNIKA

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 899
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: ROCOR-WR
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2016, 09:10:01 PM »
Greater awareness would be key. However, that would run up against the hurdle of opposition to it (look at the diktat of the GOA bishop in SF a while back on this issue).

While I find the opposition disheartening I think that I am going to concentrate on those who share my optimism and goals. At the same time, I want to make clear to my fellow ER Orthodox: the WR is not trying to compete with or replace the ER.

If I move to an area that does not have an established parish I would see about starting a WR mission. 

 

Offline ICXCNIKA

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 899
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: ROCOR-WR
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2016, 10:14:34 AM »
Greater awareness would be key. However, that would run up against the hurdle of opposition to it (look at the diktat of the GOA bishop in SF a while back on this issue).

Re: Greater awareness, were thinking amongst Orthodox faithful or more among unchurched or those looking for the True Church?

Are we thinking an advertising campaign (nothing tacky) ad in the paper etc.?

Offline mike

  • A sexual pervert with limited English reading comprehension
  • Protostrator
  • ***************
  • Posts: 24,872
  • Polish Laser Jesus shooting down schismatics
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2016, 10:15:35 AM »
Why do you want to support the Western Rite. What would be the goal of that support? What do you want to accomplish?
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?
"No one is paying attention to your post reports"
Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Offline primuspilus

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,990
  • Inserting personal quote here.
    • St. Gregory the Theologian Orthodox Church
  • Faith: Greek Orthodox (former WR)
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Boston
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2016, 10:31:03 AM »
Quote
What can we do to help it grow?
Quieting bishops critical of it that have no idea what they're talking about.....lookin at you Met. Kallistos.

I was going to make a separate post about it, but here is as good a place as any. Of course, some members of my parish are on these forums, so Im sure this'll get to my priest, but here we go.

Im actually having some problems lately, concerning the WR. It has nothing to do with anything "that matters" really. Its the community aspect in Orthodoxy that I feel Im missing as being a member of the WR. I feel like we're an island unto ourselves. We can't relate on some topics of conversation and I feel kind of left out. The subjects immediately coming to mind are conversations about the liturgy, or some feast days. I've actually never participated in the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom at all, and I've been Orthodox for 5 years. I feel like that my isolation is not helped by those in authority, who give us a separate bishop (Bp. John, who I love and respect deeply, but we ALSO have our "actual" bishop, Bishop Thomas, also a great man). There are other reasons I feel this way. Its getting to the point where Im thinking about leaving the WR because its like we're an afterthought, and if we were existing or not, nobody in leadership would really care.

Overthinking? Maybe this is a symptom of the support question that ICXCNIKA raised?

PP

« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 10:32:21 AM by primuspilus »
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline Iconodule

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 14,135
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2016, 10:39:13 AM »
The biggest hurdle is probably just the assumption that Byzantine culture is superior. You can see this all over the place, even in the Western Rite itself.
Quote
Radiates, vegetables, monstrosities, star spawn— whatever they had been, they were men!
- Lovecraft, At the Mountains of Madness

If you would like a private forum for non-polemical topics, comment here.

Offline primuspilus

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,990
  • Inserting personal quote here.
    • St. Gregory the Theologian Orthodox Church
  • Faith: Greek Orthodox (former WR)
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Boston
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2016, 10:42:00 AM »
Quote
The biggest hurdle is probably just the assumption that Byzantine culture is superior.
If the recent "Great and Holy Council" is any evidence, this is certainly not true.

Quote
You can see this all over the place, even in the Western Rite itself
yeah. I see it in alot of places.

I dont think it is or anything, its just so permeates all aspects of Orthodoxy that anyone outside of it (like the WR, especially the former-Episcopalian/Anglical flavor) are kind of walled off IMO.

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline Agabus

  • The user formerly known as Agabus.
  • Section Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,899
  • Faith: without works is dead.
  • Jurisdiction: Dark Night of the Soul.
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2016, 11:00:20 AM »
Is there any liturgical training offered in seminaries for the Western Rite?

AFAIK, the Antiochian St. Stephen's course still offers a Western Rite track, and part of that includes  a few in-person sessions over three years. I'm not sure how much is theology and how much is liturgics, though.

Those who know can correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that most folks going through St. Stephens on that track would be coming from some sort of Anglican continuum background anyway and learning liturgics is more a matter of picking up the tweaks to a liturgy that isn't terribly different to begin with.
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

All hail and agree with AGABUS! the God of this website.

Take a breath, read Ecclesiastes 1:9.

Offline ICXCNIKA

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 899
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: ROCOR-WR
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2016, 11:29:01 AM »
Why do you want to support the Western Rite. What would be the goal of that support? What do you want to accomplish?

I want to support the WR because it speaks to my soul. If I didn't grow up in it maybe I wouldn't feel that way. I would have joined orthodoxy 5 years earlier if their was a WR for me to attend. Also, I feel like the WR belongs to the Orthodox Church just as much as the Byzantine Rite. So a reestablishment is, in my opinion, in Orthodoxy's best interest.

The Goal would be to help the spread of the western rite missions and parishes across North America which would allow us to show western christians that the True Church does exist and it looks very much like what you cherish. Here in the US I would say that we have 70 million Romans and  many former romans that left a church that violated their trust in some way. They need a home and it is our responsibility to evangelize them and to bring them home.

I hope that makes sense.


Offline Opus118

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,360
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2016, 12:23:18 PM »
However, that would run up against the hurdle of opposition to it (look at the diktat of the GOA bishop in SF a while back on this issue).

I am curious as to what you are referring to. The only thing I am familiar with is that the Mass would be approximately 50% Latin and 50% Greek, with the sermon in English.

If you cannot remember everything, instead of everything, I beg you, remember this without fail, that not to share our own wealth with the poor is theft from the poor and deprivation of their means of life; we do not possess our own wealth but theirs.  If we have this attitude, we will certainly offer our money; and by nourishing Christ in poverty here and laying up great profit hereafter, we will be able to attain the good things which are to come. - St. John Chrysostom

Offline mike

  • A sexual pervert with limited English reading comprehension
  • Protostrator
  • ***************
  • Posts: 24,872
  • Polish Laser Jesus shooting down schismatics
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2016, 03:49:34 PM »
Why do you want to support the Western Rite. What would be the goal of that support? What do you want to accomplish?

I want to support the WR because it speaks to my soul. If I didn't grow up in it maybe I wouldn't feel that way. I would have joined orthodoxy 5 years earlier if their was a WR for me to attend. Also, I feel like the WR belongs to the Orthodox Church just as much as the Byzantine Rite. So a reestablishment is, in my opinion, in Orthodoxy's best interest.

The Goal would be to help the spread of the western rite missions and parishes across North America which would allow us to show western christians that the True Church does exist and it looks very much like what you cherish. Here in the US I would say that we have 70 million Romans and  many former romans that left a church that violated their trust in some way. They need a home and it is our responsibility to evangelize them and to bring them home.

I hope that makes sense.



The Western Rite is a niche inside a niche. From what it seems here, most of the converts either do not feel any familiarity between the current liturgics in their Churches and current WROxy so it is no more familiar to them than Byantine rite or due to abuses of Western tradition they want to run from it as far as possible. That leaves a small group of liturgical enthusiasts.

One wouldn't make WROxy a massive movent even if he stood on his ears.
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?
"No one is paying attention to your post reports"
Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Offline WPM

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,657
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2016, 04:15:25 PM »
Don't see how it relates to anything.
Learn meditation.

Offline Iconodule

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 14,135
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2016, 04:18:59 PM »
Don't see how it relates to anything.

Please stop saying this. It's annoying.
Quote
Radiates, vegetables, monstrosities, star spawn— whatever they had been, they were men!
- Lovecraft, At the Mountains of Madness

If you would like a private forum for non-polemical topics, comment here.

Offline WPM

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,657
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2016, 05:34:10 PM »
Hi all,

I know over the course of the years I have talked to other members on this forum who like myself are members of the Eastern Rite but are supportive of the Western Rite. I really wish there was a WR parish/mission near me.

What can we do to help it grow? I for one am going to start making a small monthly contribution to the WR. If anyone has any other ideas I would be glad to hear it.

I know how to get to St. Peter's church in Ft. Worth which is Western Rite.
Learn meditation.

Offline rakovsky

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,654
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2016, 06:55:40 PM »
I really wish there was a WR parish/mission near me.
Think about making a personal pilgrimage to one of the WR parishes or monasteries in Wisconsin now and then.

ROCOR Western Rite:
Holy Zion Orthodox Hermitage in Exile    
http://rwrv.org/directory.html?type=details&id=31
7835 W. Highway Q
Watertown, WI 53098
Phone: (920) 262-8800
(56 minutes away)

St. Paul the Apostle Western-Rite Stavropegial Orthodox Church (ROCOR)
2019 29th Street
Kenosha, WI 53140
( 2 hours 5 minutes away from you)
http://www.saintpaulorthodoxchurch.org/
Phone: (262) 997-0725

It's not that uncommon for someone to travel over an hour to work (I used to drive 45 minutes each way) or visit relatives hours a way once a month.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 06:58:44 PM by rakovsky »
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline ICXCNIKA

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 899
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: ROCOR-WR
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2016, 07:40:57 PM »
I really wish there was a WR parish/mission near me.
Think about making a personal pilgrimage to one of the WR parishes or monasteries in Wisconsin now and then.

ROCOR Western Rite:
Holy Zion Orthodox Hermitage in Exile    
http://rwrv.org/directory.html?type=details&id=31
7835 W. Highway Q
Watertown, WI 53098
Phone: (920) 262-8800
(56 minutes away)

St. Paul the Apostle Western-Rite Stavropegial Orthodox Church (ROCOR)
2019 29th Street
Kenosha, WI 53140
( 2 hours 5 minutes away from you)
http://www.saintpaulorthodoxchurch.org/
Phone: (262) 997-0725

It's not that uncommon for someone to travel over an hour to work (I used to drive 45 minutes each way) or visit relatives hours a way once a month.

That is an excellent idea. I did not find the 2nd church you listed on their website (rwrv.org) Unless, I just keep missing it. Maybe it closed down? I will definitely check into visiting the 1st one you listed. Thanks.

Offline rakovsky

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,654
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2016, 10:52:33 PM »
I did not find the 2nd church you listed on their website (rwrv.org) Unless, I just keep missing it. Maybe it closed down?

I don't know, since their site is down.
But they are still in the ROCOR directory:

http://directory.stinnocentpress.com/viewparish.cgi?Uid=439&lang=en
E-mail: fatherpeter@wi.rr.com
Priest Peter de Haas, Rector
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Justin Kolodziej

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 848
  • St. John Koukouzeles
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of Atlanta
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2016, 11:12:12 PM »
I did not find the 2nd church you listed on their website (rwrv.org) Unless, I just keep missing it. Maybe it closed down?

I don't know, since their site is down.
But they are still in the ROCOR directory:

http://directory.stinnocentpress.com/viewparish.cgi?Uid=439&lang=en
E-mail: fatherpeter@wi.rr.com
Priest Peter de Haas, Rector

Looks like they moved the Western Rite site to http://www.rocor-wr.org/ and it's listed in the monasteries section.
Anyway, it hasn't really gone as St. Tikhon had hoped, but only God really knows what will happen with the Western Rite.
Quote from: Elder Thaddeus of Vitovnica
Only one person who is prayerfully connected to God is needed, and we will have peace everywhere -- in the family, at work, in the government, and everywhere.

Offline Pravoslavbob

  • Section Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,395
  • Out for a stroll...
  • Faith: Orthodox Catholic
  • Jurisdiction: Antioch
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2016, 12:23:14 AM »
Quote
What can we do to help it grow?
Quieting bishops critical of it that have no idea what they're talking about.....lookin at you Met. Kallistos.

I was going to make a separate post about it, but here is as good a place as any. Of course, some members of my parish are on these forums, so Im sure this'll get to my priest, but here we go.

Im actually having some problems lately, concerning the WR. It has nothing to do with anything "that matters" really. Its the community aspect in Orthodoxy that I feel Im missing as being a member of the WR. I feel like we're an island unto ourselves. We can't relate on some topics of conversation and I feel kind of left out. The subjects immediately coming to mind are conversations about the liturgy, or some feast days. I've actually never participated in the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom at all, and I've been Orthodox for 5 years. I feel like that my isolation is not helped by those in authority, who give us a separate bishop (Bp. John, who I love and respect deeply, but we ALSO have our "actual" bishop, Bishop Thomas, also a great man). There are other reasons I feel this way. Its getting to the point where Im thinking about leaving the WR because its like we're an afterthought, and if we were existing or not, nobody in leadership would really care.

Overthinking? Maybe this is a symptom of the support question that ICXCNIKA raised?

PP

It's interesting for me to see that there are 5 Antiochian Western rite parishes in Texas.  It looks like some of them are quite large.  Do you know anything about how everything got started there and why it continues to grow?
Atheists have noetic deficiencies.


Don't believe everything you think.


The more I know, the less I know.   ;)

Offline kijabeboy03

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,019
  • J'étais insensé.
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Tous.
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2016, 01:44:54 PM »
This isn't a unique thing at all. When I started becoming Orthodox, because of my geographical situation at the time I was spending about equal time in Coptic, Ethiopian, Greek, and Kenyan Orthodox churches. (It was complicated, lol.) Thanks to that from early on I knew Orthodoxy as a universal thing present in and expressed by many different cultures. But I've met plenty of people of all backgrounds who only know their rite and expression of Orthodoxy. My current home parish is Byzantine Rite, but whenever I can I visit churches of other backgrounds and rites to get a taste of universal Orthodoxy and a reminder that Byzantine isn't The Way to be Orthodox.

So yeah, visit other places to get a better idea of what people are going on about and to see the breadth of our Orthodoxy, but don't sweat being of your own rite and heritage, there's nothing wrong with (or unusual about) that!


Quote
What can we do to help it grow?
Quieting bishops critical of it that have no idea what they're talking about.....lookin at you Met. Kallistos.

I was going to make a separate post about it, but here is as good a place as any. Of course, some members of my parish are on these forums, so Im sure this'll get to my priest, but here we go.

Im actually having some problems lately, concerning the WR. It has nothing to do with anything "that matters" really. Its the community aspect in Orthodoxy that I feel Im missing as being a member of the WR. I feel like we're an island unto ourselves. We can't relate on some topics of conversation and I feel kind of left out. The subjects immediately coming to mind are conversations about the liturgy, or some feast days. I've actually never participated in the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom at all, and I've been Orthodox for 5 years. I feel like that my isolation is not helped by those in authority, who give us a separate bishop (Bp. John, who I love and respect deeply, but we ALSO have our "actual" bishop, Bishop Thomas, also a great man). There are other reasons I feel this way. Its getting to the point where Im thinking about leaving the WR because its like we're an afterthought, and if we were existing or not, nobody in leadership would really care.

Overthinking? Maybe this is a symptom of the support question that ICXCNIKA raised?

PP

Offline rft183

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 59
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2016, 03:30:47 PM »
It's interesting for me to see that there are 5 Antiochian Western rite parishes in Texas.  It looks like some of them are quite large.  Do you know anything about how everything got started there and why it continues to grow?
I know that my Texan Western Rite Parish got its start from the Priest and many parishioners of a local Episcopalian church converting en masse to Orthodoxy.  Considering that the entire Fort Worth Diocese of the Episcopal Church ended up leaving the Episcopal Church, I would assume that some of the other Texas WR parishes may have had similar starts.  I don't know that for a fact, though  ;)

Offline Pravoslavbob

  • Section Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,395
  • Out for a stroll...
  • Faith: Orthodox Catholic
  • Jurisdiction: Antioch
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2016, 07:44:48 PM »
It's interesting for me to see that there are 5 Antiochian Western rite parishes in Texas.  It looks like some of them are quite large.  Do you know anything about how everything got started there and why it continues to grow?
I know that my Texan Western Rite Parish got its start from the Priest and many parishioners of a local Episcopalian church converting en masse to Orthodoxy.  Considering that the entire Fort Worth Diocese of the Episcopal Church ended up leaving the Episcopal Church, I would assume that some of the other Texas WR parishes may have had similar starts.  I don't know that for a fact, though  ;)

Wow, that's very interesting!  How do you think life has changed for parishioners since the move to Orthodoxy? 
Atheists have noetic deficiencies.


Don't believe everything you think.


The more I know, the less I know.   ;)

Offline primuspilus

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,990
  • Inserting personal quote here.
    • St. Gregory the Theologian Orthodox Church
  • Faith: Greek Orthodox (former WR)
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Boston
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2017, 03:32:59 PM »
It's interesting for me to see that there are 5 Antiochian Western rite parishes in Texas.  It looks like some of them are quite large.  Do you know anything about how everything got started there and why it continues to grow?
I know that my Texan Western Rite Parish got its start from the Priest and many parishioners of a local Episcopalian church converting en masse to Orthodoxy.  Considering that the entire Fort Worth Diocese of the Episcopal Church ended up leaving the Episcopal Church, I would assume that some of the other Texas WR parishes may have had similar starts.  I don't know that for a fact, though  ;)
Yeah. Same here. My priest was a former Bishop who left with some parishioners. Same circumstance, except our Episcopal Church is only nominally still with the greater communion.

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline MariaJLM

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 70
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2017, 01:20:27 PM »
I'm quite intrigued by the traditional Latin Mass so would certainly attend a Western Rite parish if I had the opportunity. Problem is that I don't even think Canada has any. If we do they're probably in like Toronto or something, which is the other side of the country...

Offline RaphaCam

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,742
  • It is honourable to reveal the works of God
    • Em Espírito e em Verdade
  • Faith: Big-O Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Exarchate of Gotham City
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2017, 02:03:00 PM »
I'm quite intrigued by the traditional Latin Mass so would certainly attend a Western Rite parish if I had the opportunity. Problem is that I don't even think Canada has any. If we do they're probably in like Toronto or something, which is the other side of the country...
There seem to be parishes near Ontario and Prince Edward Island. The nearest WRO parishes to you are probably in Washington.  :P I'd really like to know WR Orthodoxy too, there's a parish in a ten minute walk from my home, but it's in schism (Orthodox Church of France, I think) and the services are always simultaneous to those of my own parish, I believe.
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Anyhow when God was asked he said Eastern Orthodox is true Church and not Catholic Church. So come home and enjoy.

Offline MariaJLM

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 70
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2017, 03:28:26 PM »
I'm quite intrigued by the traditional Latin Mass so would certainly attend a Western Rite parish if I had the opportunity. Problem is that I don't even think Canada has any. If we do they're probably in like Toronto or something, which is the other side of the country...
There seem to be parishes near Ontario and Prince Edward Island. The nearest WRO parishes to you are probably in Washington.  :P I'd really like to know WR Orthodoxy too, there's a parish in a ten minute walk from my home, but it's in schism (Orthodox Church of France, I think) and the services are always simultaneous to those of my own parish, I believe.

Yea, too far and travelling to Washington just for liturgy would be nuts. I would need money and a passport(which I do have, but somehow lost).

Offline LivenotoneviL

  • A Hopeful Sinner
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,107
  • Saint Patrick, Pray For Us!
  • Faith: Outside the Church
  • Jurisdiction: None
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2017, 10:53:10 PM »
I know that I said I would take a break, but the temptation after lurking is too much.

Anyways, even for me - as a college student who is still living at home with my parents - the distance is even more burdensome. There is a small Western Rite Orthodox Mission under ROCOR at Northville, Michigan, which is 2 and a half hours away from where I live - Cleveland. However, as one who hasn't had tremendous experience driving on highways - upon telling my parents of my plans of such an idea for a trip, they raised their eyebrows and looked at me as though I was nuts - and the answer is obviously "no, not until you become an expert driver, and even then please don't do that."

There's literally like an Orthodox Church jurisdiction of every kind near Cleveland (that is, at most 30 minutes away from where I live) EXCEPT Western Rite. There's Greek, Serbian, Russian, OCA, Antiochian, even some out of communion churches like Ukrainian and Macedonian. However, no Western Rite whatsoever.

I know I'm spoiled, but I'm a fallen human and a great sinner.

I'm thankful to God the variety I've been given, it's a wonderful bouquet of flowers (I love the Russian liturgical Tradition personally out of these, and want to experience a ROCOR liturgy and maybe consider joining ROCOR)- but as someone who has grown up in a very liturgical Novus Ordo Catholic Church, and loves the Tridentine Mass greatly including some of their venerable traditions (like the Asperges - chanting portions of Psalm 50 while sprinkling people with Holy Water is awesome) the Western Rite does speak to my soul to a degree. To at least experience the Roman Liturgy in its proper form of Orthodoxy - at least once in my life - would be pleasant.

After a lot of thought - I still stand by my love of a more "organic development" of Liturgy and see that as more in line with who I am (seeing almost completely unbroken Tradition in countries for thousands of years with organic cultural changes), and I feel more comfortable in a Byzantine setting - I think God wants me to be Eastern - nevertheless, it would be cool to experience an Orthodox rendition of the West how it was.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 10:57:53 PM by LivenotoneviL »
"I arise today
Through a mighty strength, the invocation of the Trinity,
Through belief in the Threeness,
Through confession of the Oneness
of the Creator of creation."

May God one day unite me with the Holy Orthodox Catholic Church.

Offline LivenotoneviL

  • A Hopeful Sinner
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,107
  • Saint Patrick, Pray For Us!
  • Faith: Outside the Church
  • Jurisdiction: None
Re: Supporting the Western Rite
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2017, 11:27:46 PM »
I should also state that I've kind of carried over a more explicit tradition of the Roman Catholic Church (that is, from what Gregory Hesse has stated - but whom I think was fully correct) - that is, God ordains by His choosing what liturgical tradition you are to be a part of for your entire life. For example, if you were born a Melkite (an Antiochian Catholic), you have a duty to do your best to make the Melkite tradition a part of your life. If you can't find a Melkite church, find a Byzantine Catholic church. If you can't find a Byzantine Catholic church, find a Maronite or Coptic Catholic church. If you can't find these, then you can attend a Roman Mass.

My experiences with Orthodoxy have always been in the context of Russia / OCA. I learned about the Orthodox Church when I first studied Russian history in high school, which I went out of my way to read; the first Divine Liturgy I attended for an "ecumenism" project in my Catholic high school was OCA (the Greek Church was already taken; one religion per person), and my first time seriously considering Orthodoxy was talking with a friend who would talk theology and politics with me casually, to which I attended literally the closest Orthodox Church to me - which was an OCA Church that he just happened to be a part of.

I think that is where I am destined liturgically by the hand-pickings of God - Russian, either in the form of OCA or ROCOR.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 11:32:03 PM by LivenotoneviL »
"I arise today
Through a mighty strength, the invocation of the Trinity,
Through belief in the Threeness,
Through confession of the Oneness
of the Creator of creation."

May God one day unite me with the Holy Orthodox Catholic Church.