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Author Topic: Pontifical Western-Rite High Mass to be celebrated in ROCOR Canada WR  (Read 15991 times) Average Rating: 0
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Michał
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« Reply #135 on: April 08, 2011, 06:29:45 AM »

. . . the Old Believers have a diocese . . .

They do?

Sorry, my error.   Bishop Daniel of Erie who died last year (memory eternal) was a vicar-bishop and not the ruling bishop of a diocese.

That's what I thought. It would be strange to have a diocese consisting of one parish. Wink
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SubdeaconDavid
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« Reply #136 on: April 08, 2011, 08:26:42 AM »

My understanding is that the bishops will not create specifically Western Rite bishops since it is not right to divide the faithful within a territory either by race or rite. Presumably if the Isle of Man were solidly Western Rite with no admixture of Byzantines a case could be made for appointing a Western Rite bishop for the island.

Not the strongest arguement since Russian Orthodox faithful are still divided between between ROCOR dioceses and MP dioceses in America and elsewhere and they are the same race and rite.  The Western Rite can't get a vicar bishop? The Old Rite had one.

Yes, there is some chaos in the Diaspora but why spread it?

I take your point about the Old Believers Diocese though.

At the moment the Western Rite of ROCA does have a Vicar Bishop -Bishop Jerome of Manhattan.

The entire Western Rite world of ROCA (USA, Australia and Britain) is outside the diocesan system and every institution is constituted as a "stavropegial" institution directly under Metropolitan Hilarion.   This was something he enacted to protect ROCA's Western Rite since there is not a great amount of favour for it among the synod of bishops and some would refuse to have Western Rite in their dioceses.  So its existence remains precarious and it would remain to be seen how it would fare if a new Metropolitan were elected who was not sympathetic to Western Rite.

The preponderance of bishops against Western Rite also helps explain why the Old Believers have a diocese but the WRers do not (apart from the reason of their very small numbers.)
Is it your understanding that the majority of ROCOR bishops and many clergy are against the WR Father?
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« Reply #137 on: April 08, 2011, 10:34:04 AM »

What rite did the apostles use? When did any formalized liturgy become fixed and unchanginG in use? Did any of the ecumenical councils codify what was the acceptable content of the liturgy? My point is that in my view as a RC, the strength and validity of the OC is that it adheres to the first councils and the theology doesn't evolve so error doesn't creep in. The essentials can't change
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« Reply #138 on: April 08, 2011, 03:27:24 PM »

What rite did the apostles use?

Who knows?

Quote
When did any formalized liturgy become fixed and unchanginG in use?

St. James Liturgy is the oldest currently used EO DL. I have no idea when did it originate. Second, third century?

Quote
Did any of the ecumenical councils codify what was the acceptable content of the liturgy?

No, not really.
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« Reply #139 on: May 30, 2011, 03:58:14 PM »

http://christminster.org/2011/05/joyous-weekend-at-christminster/

Relation and pictures.
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Shlomlokh
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« Reply #140 on: May 30, 2011, 10:13:56 PM »

Wonderful! Thanks for sharing. I look forward to their video upload of the Liturgy. Smiley

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Andrew
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« Reply #141 on: May 31, 2011, 04:52:29 PM »



Well doesn't he just look snazzy in his Latin vestments.  Grin
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« Reply #142 on: May 31, 2011, 05:15:23 PM »


Well doesn't he just look snazzy in his Latin vestments.  Grin

Maybe its just me, but they really don't look all that comfortable. I wish them well and I don't doubt their sincerity, I guess I really don't need to have an opinion on this.
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ialmisry
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« Reply #143 on: May 31, 2011, 05:41:02 PM »

Christus resurrexit!


Well doesn't he just look snazzy in his Latin vestments.  Grin
Yes, his grace does.
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Shlomlokh
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« Reply #144 on: May 31, 2011, 05:42:35 PM »

Christus resurrexit!


Well doesn't he just look snazzy in his Latin vestments.  Grin
Yes, his grace does.
Vere resurrexit!

I'm curious, why isn't His Grace wearing a pallium?

In Christ,
Andrew
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« Reply #145 on: May 31, 2011, 06:34:22 PM »

He is a Vicar Bishop. AFAIK in Latin Tradition it shows the right to ordain Bishops and he has none.

Just a guess.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2011, 06:34:39 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged
Shlomlokh
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« Reply #146 on: May 31, 2011, 06:38:52 PM »

He is a Vicar Bishop. AFAIK in Latin Tradition it shows the right to ordain Bishops and he has none.

Just a guess.
Ah, I forgot. He is the same as Bp. George (Schaeffer) of Mayfield.

In Christ,
Andrew
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"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos
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