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jordanz
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« on: April 01, 2011, 03:01:57 PM »

I just want to start a *nix open thread for OC.net participants.  This thread is just a jam session for anyone who uses a Unix or Unix-like kernel.  Examples would be Unix, BSD, various Linux distributions (Debian-Ubuntu, Arch, Redhat etc.), and Darwin/Mac OSX.  Also, feel free to discuss and debate graphical environments, C/C++ programming, and shell scripting. 

Can't see why we couldn't do informal tech support as well. 

Get your nerd on in here.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 03:04:07 PM by jordanz » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2011, 03:04:07 PM »


Shouldn't this be in foreign languages forum?   Wink
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« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2011, 03:06:20 PM »


Shouldn't this be in foreign languages forum?   Wink

Good point.  Unix syntax is like a foreign language.  It's just that there might be some computer hardware discussion as well.  So I thought the topic would go better in this forum.
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« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2011, 03:14:39 PM »



#!/bin/bash

echo “Hello World !!”
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« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2011, 03:21:45 PM »


Shouldn't this be in foreign languages forum?   Wink

Good point.  Unix syntax is like a foreign language.  It's just that there might be some computer hardware discussion as well.  So I thought the topic would go better in this forum.

I hate when people make analogies between "computer languages" and "natural" languages.

I grieve when people actually believe it and are not making an analogy.

Ain't been into *nix for forever, once Apple went to a *nix based OS and I didn't really need many of the utilities only *nix provided in a robust manner or was helping administer servers running it.

But might be installing some, I hope, PhD packages on a few folks' computers soon, so I approve of this thread.
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« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2011, 03:36:08 PM »

But might be installing some, I hope, PhD packages on a few folks' computers soon, so I approve of this thread.

What's a "PhD package"?

I'm a PhD student, but I don't come shrink-wrapped. 
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« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2011, 03:43:35 PM »


OK...you guys "do" realize I was making a joke, right?

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« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2011, 03:48:49 PM »

But might be installing some, I hope, PhD packages on a few folks' computers soon, so I approve of this thread.

What's a "PhD package"?

I'm a PhD student, but I don't come shrink-wrapped. 

lulz. The youth . . .

It is something someone with a PhD can understand: Push Here Dummy.

Old tyme internets slang.
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« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2011, 04:03:45 PM »

What's a "PhD package"?

I'm a PhD student, but I don't come shrink-wrapped. 

9lulz. The youth . . .

It is something someone with a PhD can understand: Push Here Dummy.

Ain't that old.  Still, I was around for dialup shells and Lynx.  Never heard that one though.

What kind of linux system would you install for someone who's not computer literate?  I mean, keeping track of someone else's linux boxen can be tricky, unless you have every last thing cronjob'd, you can tty into the system, and the box is on all the time.  What happens if the person on the other end chowns /usr or something? 

Only my work computer stays on all the time.  My home computers switch on and off, so I've taken to running an upgrade script manually every time I turn them on. 

« Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 04:05:04 PM by jordanz » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2011, 04:43:29 PM »

Any C people here? I suppose if we're discussing linux/unix based kernels, there's not escaping it. Surely no one here questions the divine inspiration of C.
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« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2011, 05:13:15 PM »

What's a "PhD package"?

I'm a PhD student, but I don't come shrink-wrapped. 

9lulz. The youth . . .

It is something someone with a PhD can understand: Push Here Dummy.

Ain't that old.  Still, I was around for dialup shells and Lynx.  Never heard that one though.

What kind of linux system would you install for someone who's not computer literate?  I mean, keeping track of someone else's linux boxen can be tricky, unless you have every last thing cronjob'd, you can tty into the system, and the box is on all the time.  What happens if the person on the other end chowns /usr or something? 

Only my work computer stays on all the time.  My home computers switch on and off, so I've taken to running an upgrade script manually every time I turn them on. 



GiC and Entscheidungsproblem are your men here. Google around for a recent thread on this. If I remember, I will find it.
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« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2011, 06:07:44 PM »

What kind of linux system would you install for someone who's not computer literate?

Linux Mint or openSUSE.  In the past I would have recommend Ubuntu for said people, but I really don't like how 11.04 is shaping up.

To manage the box, you could always set up vino-server, and remote desktop in once in a while.
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« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2011, 06:10:19 PM »

Speaking of distros, I'm just about to try out Liquid Lemur (ALPHA 3.4).
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« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2011, 06:17:00 PM »

I just installed Ubuntu a few days ago... I have dual-boot now with Windows7 in a separate partition.

That was the hardest part... For some reason Windows 7 won't allow you to shrink the drive very much. It was showing that there was over 180 GB free on C:\ but it would only let me shrink it by 30 GB.

I had to use Partition Magic to shrink it (free trial)... Once I figured that and the ext4 formatting with GParted out it was smooth sailing from there.

Ubuntu is pretty easy to use... and is supposed to be far safer when it comes to viruses and such. I now do all of my online activities on the Linux side.

I'm typing from /dev/sda5 right now with sda6 as swap to enable hibernation. It's awesome... So fast compared to Windows!

The only issue I can't seem to figure out is poor online image resolution. All the text looks perfect but the images -not so much. Any Ubuntu users?

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Quote from: Entscheidungsproblem
Linux Mint or openSUSE.  In the past I would have recommend Ubuntu for said people, but I really don't like how 11.04 is shaping up.

What do you mean? Can you expand on that a little?

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« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2011, 06:18:30 PM »

What kind of linux system would you install for someone who's not computer literate?

Linux Mint or openSUSE.

Why are these good for non-literate users.  Linux Mint is based off of Debian, right?  

I use ubuntu on all my machines.  Two use XFCE for the desktop environment, one uses LXDE.  LXDE is pretty-bare bones, but it's a very efficient desktop environment.  I run it on an old celeron 1 GHz/512 mb ram (7 yo laptop).  It can run high quality flash streaming audio and 240p youtube video no sweat (but not at the same time).  I use the LXDE system as a music jukebox or internet radio player.  If the LXDE machine crashes, it won't take down the XFCE system.    

In the past I would have recommend Ubuntu for said people, but I really don't like how 11.04 is shaping up.

I'm still on 10.10.  I'm not in a rush to upgrade.  Once canonical goes to wayland, I'm jumping ship to a more xwindows friendly distro.  I suspect that Unity is bloatware.  Heck, xfce isn't that much more efficient than gnome or kde.

Friends of mine often say, "yeah I'd go to Linux, but I don't want to use commands."  It's just not possible to use Linux without learning commands.  I'd like to convert more users to Linux, but so many are intrinsically tied to GUI only computing.  Even casual computer users know that Win 7 is insanely bloated, but many view Win 7 as a necessary evil.
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« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2011, 06:23:46 PM »

The only issue I can't seem to figure out is poor online image resolution. All the text looks perfect but the images -not so much. Any Ubuntu users?

What video card are you using?

go to your shell and type this at the $ prompt (no need to be superuser):
lspci


Cut n paste the results here, and one of us should be able to find a driver.

EDIT: to cut down on the number of devices reported, type
lspci | grep VGA
.  If you don't get anything, try
lspci | grep DVI
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« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2011, 06:25:45 PM »

Quote from: Entscheidungsproblem
Linux Mint or openSUSE.  In the past I would have recommend Ubuntu for said people, but I really don't like how 11.04 is shaping up.

What do you mean? Can you expand on that a little?

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Ubuntu has decided to fork from the rest of the GNOME community starting with Natty.  GNOME 3.0 is the next generation of GNOME, and has been somewhat controversial.  When the alpha was released, it was extremely bug ridden (more so than most alphas), and the sheer amount of change was similar to the changes that occurred with KDE.  Since then, it has been streamlined greatly, and looks quite promising.  Ubuntu jumped the gun and decided that Unity will be used rather than the GNOME shell.  I have personally never liked Unity (it has been available for some time via the net-book addition).  Things often don't render properly, and its attempt to emulate the Mac menu bar has mostly crashed and burned.
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« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2011, 06:29:31 PM »

Ubuntu has decided to fork from the rest of the GNOME community starting with Natty.  GNOME 3.0 is the next generation of GNOME, and has been somewhat controversial.  When the alpha was released, it was extremely bug ridden (more so than most alphas), and the sheer amount of change was similar to the changes that occurred with KDE.  Since then, it has been streamlined greatly, and looks quite promising.  Ubuntu jumped the gun and decided that Unity will be used rather than the GNOME shell.  I have personally never liked Unity (it has been available for some time via the net-book addition).  Things often don't render properly, and its attempt to emulate the Mac menu bar has mostly crashed and burned.

Would you consider moving to a lighter weight xwindows based DE?

Seriously, xfce will do anything that gnome or kde can do.  it's more efficient and is feature rich.  I don't mean to be a cheerleader, but I stopped using gnome a year ago and I don't miss it at all.  Also, xfce will handle dual monitors relatively well (you might need to modify .profile or the dreaded xorg file), but usually it's a fairly quick install if the video card is relatively modern.
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« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2011, 06:38:08 PM »

Y'all might as well be speaking squirrel.  Smiley
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« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2011, 06:41:32 PM »

Y'all might as well be speaking squirrel.  Smiley

No, it's more like "this is what happens when you've given up the vain pursuit of language-based interaction with humanoids."
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« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2011, 06:57:36 PM »

What kind of linux system would you install for someone who's not computer literate?

Linux Mint or openSUSE.

Why are these good for non-literate users.  Linux Mint is based off of Debian, right?  

I've found the one thing that both distros have that help people are custom built "control centres".  They not only centralise the standard systems settings (from gnome, xfce, whatever), but also have a bunch of custom GUI ones made by Mint or SUSE.  Less reliance on command line, which many like.  Plus, they are not as dogmatic about open/libre software, so they contain various fonts, codecs and plugins stock.  No need to unlock nonfree repos.

Mint KDE, Mint GNOME, Mint Xfce, and Mint LXDE are all based on Ubuntu.  Mint Debian is a based on Debian Testing, so it is a rolling release.

Quote
I'm still on 10.10.  I'm not in a rush to upgrade.  Once canonical goes to wayland, I'm jumping ship to a more xwindows friendly distro.  I suspect that Unity is bloatware.  Heck, xfce isn't that much more efficient than gnome or kde.
Yeah, Unity doesn't run very well.  Especially on an older box.

There was a time when Xfce was a good deal better than GNOME and KDE, but especially with 4.6 and 4.8, it has placed itself firmly in the domain of a medium weight DE.
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« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2011, 07:04:22 PM »

Would you consider moving to a lighter weight xwindows based DE?
Personally, I would run Lubuntu or maybe even OpenGEU (if I wanted a *buntu disto), but I mostly keep Ubuntu around since I know a good deal of people who use (and swear by it) and they often need some sort of tech support.

My home distro is usually one of three: Arch, aptosid, or CrunchBang.
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« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2011, 07:08:40 PM »

The only issue I can't seem to figure out is poor online image resolution. All the text looks perfect but the images -not so much. Any Ubuntu users?

What video card are you using?

go to your shell and type this at the $ prompt (no need to be superuser):
lspci


Cut n paste the results here, and one of us should be able to find a driver.

EDIT: to cut down on the number of devices reported, type
lspci | grep VGA
.  If you don't get anything, try
lspci | grep DVI


Well thanks, I'll gladly accept. This is what it shows:

Quote from: the little box
01:05.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc M880G [Mobility Radeon HD 4200]

~~~ ~~~ ~~~

Quote from: Entscheidungsproblem
Linux Mint or openSUSE.  In the past I would have recommend Ubuntu for said people, but I really don't like how 11.04 is shaping up.

What do you mean? Can you expand on that a little?

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Ubuntu has decided to fork from the rest of the GNOME community starting with Natty.  GNOME 3.0 is the next generation of GNOME, and has been somewhat controversial.  When the alpha was released, it was extremely bug ridden (more so than most alphas), and the sheer amount of change was similar to the changes that occurred with KDE.  Since then, it has been streamlined greatly, and looks quite promising.  Ubuntu jumped the gun and decided that Unity will be used rather than the GNOME shell.  I have personally never liked Unity (it has been available for some time via the net-book addition).  Things often don't render properly, and its attempt to emulate the Mac menu bar has mostly crashed and burned.

Hmmm... that doesn't sound good. And here I was looking forward to 11.04!

I guess if I didn't like it I could always just revert to the previous kernel anyway, right?

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« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2011, 07:15:27 PM »

The only issue I can't seem to figure out is poor online image resolution. All the text looks perfect but the images -not so much. Any Ubuntu users?
Is it just in Firefox?  Try installing Chromium and seeing if the problem exists.  

If it is only an issue within Firefox, it sounds like the default image zoom is set wrong.
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« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2011, 07:20:34 PM »

Hmmm... that doesn't sound good. And here I was looking forward to 11.04!

I guess if I didn't like it I could always just revert to the previous kernel anyway, right?

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In GDM, there should be an option at the bottom which will allow people to use a "classic" GNOME desktop look.  It will be there when 11.04 goes live (though it is glitchy now, sometimes only a wallpaper loads), but there are no guarantees it will stay come 11.10 or 12.04.
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« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2011, 07:29:35 PM »

Y'all might as well be speaking squirrel.  Smiley
I am surrounded by people who believe that I am a computer genius. I understand about 10% of this conversation.


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« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2011, 07:48:56 PM »

The only issue I can't seem to figure out is poor online image resolution. All the text looks perfect but the images -not so much. Any Ubuntu users?
Is it just in Firefox?  Try installing Chromium and seeing if the problem exists. 

If it is only an issue within Firefox, it sounds like the default image zoom is set wrong.

Yes the images are better in Chromium... but they're still not as crisp as they were in Firefox on Windows 7. This is too bad. I really wanted to use Firefox.

Thanks.

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« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2011, 07:58:40 PM »

In Firefox, type about:config in the address bar.

Under filter, search for imagezoom.defaultGlobalZoom

If it doesn't exist, right click in the giant blank area of the browser.  Then click New, and Integer.  In the first window type "imagezoom.defaultGlobalZoom", then 100 in the second window.  Press OK, and restart Firefox.

If it does exist, and the value isn't 100, modify and restart Firefox.
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« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2011, 08:41:39 PM »

Well thanks, I'll gladly accept. This is what it shows:

01:05.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc M880G [Mobility Radeon HD 4200]

Okay, listen to Entscheidungsproblem from here on out.  I didn't know that you were talking about browser issues. 

ubuntu 10.10 should handle the ATI Raedon family, especially a card this new, right out of the box.  Should be no problems there unless you're trying to do some weird multi-monitor configuration.

Anyway,
lspci
and its sibling
lsusb
are very useful for finding out what PCI and USB stuff is attached to your box.  These commands are only specialized versions of
ls


Since these commands are the children of ls, they can take all the same piped commands such as
more   grep
&c.
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« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2011, 09:03:09 PM »

In Firefox, type about:config in the address bar.

Under filter, search for imagezoom.defaultGlobalZoom

If it doesn't exist, right click in the giant blank area of the browser.  Then click New, and Integer.  In the first window type "imagezoom.defaultGlobalZoom", then 100 in the second window.  Press OK, and restart Firefox.

If it does exist, and the value isn't 100, modify and restart Firefox.


I tried it... and it stuck (I went back in and checked) but the problem is still there.

Seems weird that the text, windows and everything else are perfectly crisp but the images are garbage.

I'm sure it's just some obscure setting somewhere...

Thanks anyway though. I do appreciate it.

Well thanks, I'll gladly accept. This is what it shows:

01:05.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc M880G [Mobility Radeon HD 4200]

Okay, listen to Entscheidungsproblem from here on out.  I didn't know that you were talking about browser issues. 

ubuntu 10.10 should handle the ATI Raedon family, especially a card this new, right out of the box.  Should be no problems there unless you're trying to do some weird multi-monitor configuration.

Anyway,
lspci
and its sibling
lsusb
are very useful for finding out what PCI and USB stuff is attached to your box.  These commands are only specialized versions of
ls


Since these commands are the children of ls, they can take all the same piped commands such as
more   grep
&c.


Hey thanks again, but I must admit you're leaving me behind now!

I'm not ashamed to admit that I have no clue what any of that means. But I am just learning... I haven't even read the 'Pocket Guide'!

Problem = Not Solved Yet.

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« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2011, 09:19:06 PM »

Hey thanks again, but I must admit you're leaving me behind now!

I'm not ashamed to admit that I have no clue what any of that means. But I am just learning... I haven't even read the 'Pocket Guide'!

Problem = Not Solved Yet.

If you're just starting out, your new bestest friend is the man command.

If you don't know a command, or you just want to learn about one, type "man (insert command)".

So let's say you don't know how to use lspci, type "man lspci".

Use the arrow keys, pgup, pgdown to get around. press q to quit.  This is the same deal for the less command.  That's another command you need to know soon.

Anyway, you'll be presented with the command syntax and some switches.  Switches have a dash and then some letters.  For example:

ls -FAtrls


Will list the commands in a directory according to very specific parameters.  Everything after the "-" is a switch, or a modifier to the main command.

To give you an example, the sentence "OC.net is an addictive time waster" would look like this to Unix:

OC.net -atw
 

or, back into English syntax: "addictive time waster OC.net". 

This is a good UNIX --> English translation.

I must disagree with orthonorm when he says,

I hate when people make analogies between "computer languages" and "natural" languages.

I grieve when people actually believe it and are not making an analogy.

UNIX is very much like a natural language.  The previous example proves how the command switch system can be easily translated into English syntax.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 09:21:58 PM by jordanz » Logged
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« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2011, 11:26:08 PM »

Problem = Not Solved Yet.

I think you should see if your video cards are working.

Hang with me on this one; it might get a bit complex.

STEP ONE

Cut and paste the following command into your terminal program (the $ prompt):

sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get -y --install-recommends upgrade dist-upgrade && sudo apt-get -y --install-recommends arandr

sudo (lit. "superuser do") allows you to access "root" (the administrator account) for your system without having to login to root manually.  Enter your system password when prompted.  You will only have to enter your password once; sudo remembers your password for a certain amount of time.

This command batch will do the following:

1) check to see if there are any updates to the kernel and system packages
2) download and install these packages
3) install a program called arandr, which is a graphical interface to a command-line system called arandr (more anon).

I can dissect what all the commands mean, if you want.  Or you can just plug in the command.

This process might take up to a half-hour or more, depending on whether you upgraded your system upon ubuntu installation.  

-----------------------------

STEP TWO

Now you have two diagnostic options: arandr, which is a graphical video diagnostic tool, and xrandr its command-line sibling.

If successful, you will be returned to $.  Type 'xrandr'

You will get a list like this (this is from the laptop I'm using right now):

Quote
Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1366 x 768, maximum 8192 x 8192
LVDS connected 1366x768+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 345mm x 194mm
   1366x768       60.0*+
   1280x720       59.9  
   1152x768       59.8  
   1024x768       59.9  
   800x600        59.9  
   848x480        59.7  
   720x480        59.7  
   640x480        59.4  
VGA-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)

LVDS is the video system for most laptops.  VGA is for an external monitor.

Quote
1366x768       60.0*+

This means:

1366x768 is the screen resolution

60.0 (Hz) is the screen refesh frequency.

+ means that this is your monitor's current settings

Most monitors will turn off above 60 Hz to protect the lcd display.  Old picture-tube monitors would actually burn out above 60 Hz!  
DO NOT run any monitor at a resolution greater than 60 Hz!

Follow these steps first, cut and paste results, and then we'll proceed to more in-depth diagnostics.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 11:26:42 PM by jordanz » Logged
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« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2011, 11:44:26 PM »

Hey thanks again, but I must admit you're leaving me behind now!

I'm not ashamed to admit that I have no clue what any of that means. But I am just learning... I haven't even read the 'Pocket Guide'!

Problem = Not Solved Yet.

If you're just starting out, your new bestest friend is the man command.

If you don't know a command, or you just want to learn about one, type "man (insert command)".

So let's say you don't know how to use lspci, type "man lspci".

Use the arrow keys, pgup, pgdown to get around. press q to quit.  This is the same deal for the less command.  That's another command you need to know soon.

Anyway, you'll be presented with the command syntax and some switches.  Switches have a dash and then some letters.  For example:

ls -FAtrls


Will list the commands in a directory according to very specific parameters.  Everything after the "-" is a switch, or a modifier to the main command.

To give you an example, the sentence "OC.net is an addictive time waster" would look like this to Unix:

OC.net -atw
 

or, back into English syntax: "addictive time waster OC.net". 

This is a good UNIX --> English translation.

I must disagree with orthonorm when he says,

I hate when people make analogies between "computer languages" and "natural" languages.

I grieve when people actually believe it and are not making an analogy.

UNIX is very much like a natural language.  The previous example proves how the command switch system can be easily translated into English syntax.
Problem = Not Solved Yet.

I think you should see if your video cards are working.

Hang with me on this one; it might get a bit complex.

STEP ONE

Cut and paste the following command into your terminal program (the $ prompt):

sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get -y --install-recommends upgrade dist-upgrade && sudo apt-get -y --install-recommends arandr

sudo (lit. "superuser do") allows you to access "root" (the administrator account) for your system without having to login to root manually.  Enter your system password when prompted.  You will only have to enter your password once; sudo remembers your password for a certain amount of time.

This command batch will do the following:

1) check to see if there are any updates to the kernel and system packages
2) download and install these packages
3) install a program called arandr, which is a graphical interface to a command-line system called arandr (more anon).

I can dissect what all the commands mean, if you want.  Or you can just plug in the command.

This process might take up to a half-hour or more, depending on whether you upgraded your system upon ubuntu installation. 
 

Never made it to step two!

It output a list of a bunch of URLs like this:

Quote
Hit http://ppa.launchpad.net maverick/main i386 Packages

Then this:

Quote
Reading package lists... Done
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
E: Invalid operation arandr

Hey thanks Jordanz, I do appreciate your time and input here.

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« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2011, 11:59:00 PM »

Never made it to step two!

It output a list of a bunch of URLs like this:

Quote
Hit http://ppa.launchpad.net maverick/main i386 Packages

Then this:

Quote
Reading package lists... Done
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
E: Invalid operation arandr


Okay this is actually a good sign.  Your system is fully updated.  You don't need to run the batched command again.

Skip arandr, it's not necessary (I just thought you might find something graphical easier to use).  xrandr is fine.

Go back to terminal, to the $ prompt, type xrandr, and cut n paste the results here.

« Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 11:59:44 PM by jordanz » Logged
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« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2011, 12:03:19 AM »

Okay, stupid thought intermission:

If linux had to choose between Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy, linux would definitely be Roman Catholic.  It's very Aristotelian.  If linux were ordained, it would certainly be a Jesuit.

Which operating system is Orthodox?   Maybe Mac, because the focus is on the integral graphical experience and not command logic.

Thoughts? :-)
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 12:03:42 AM by jordanz » Logged
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« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2011, 12:17:45 AM »

Quote
Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1366 x 768, maximum 1600 x 1600
LVDS connected 1366x768+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 344mm x 193mm
   1366x768       60.1*+
   1280x768       60.1 +
   1280x720       60.1 +
   1024x768       60.1 +
   1280x600       60.1 +
   1024x600       60.1 +
   800x600        60.1 +
   800x480        60.1 +
   720x480        60.1 +
   640x480        60.1 +
DFP1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
CRT1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)

Hmmmm.... 60.1 is more than 60. ??

Okay, stupid thought intermission:

If linux had to choose between Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy, linux would definitely be Roman Catholic.  It's very Aristotelian.  If linux were ordained, it would certainly be a Jesuit.

Which operating system is Orthodox?   Maybe Mac, because the focus is on the integral graphical experience and not command logic.

Thoughts? :-)

I'm not going there 'til after we're done here!

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« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2011, 12:48:57 AM »

Ur nutz. linux is protestant all the way with a variety of denominations. It is a bottom up structure and sola scriptura.
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« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2011, 01:30:33 AM »

Ur nutz. linux is protestant all the way with a variety of denominations. It is a bottom up structure and sola scriptura.

Shhhh.... You'll upset him!


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« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2011, 01:46:14 AM »

Which operating system is Orthodox?

One of the few distributions approved by the FSF?  laugh
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« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2011, 03:09:09 AM »

Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1366 x 768, maximum 1600 x 1600
LVDS connected 1366x768+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 344mm x 193mm
   1366x768       60.1*+
   1280x768       60.1 +
   1280x720       60.1 +
   1024x768       60.1 +
   1280x600       60.1 +
   1024x600       60.1 +
   800x600        60.1 +
   800x480        60.1 +
   720x480        60.1 +
   640x480        60.1 +
DFP1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
CRT1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)

Okay.  Well, 60.1 vs 60 ain't no difference.  You're resolution is probably fine.  DFP is a digital video protocol, like DVI.  This is important, since most lcd displays are switching over to digital interfaces.  VGA, which is an analog format, dates from 1989.  

New commands you need to know are apt-get and dpkg

apt-get is Debian/Ubuntu's package repository tool.  Unlike Windows, Linux distributions have online 'storehouses' of kernel data, programs, drivers, GUI config files, poorly written freeware games, etc.  apt-get calls them up from the system.  On other distros, such as redhat, the repository command is yum.  Ubuntu also has another layer of apt-get functionality in the command aptitude and in the graphical front end synaptic, but I never cared for either of these even though they are arguably improvements on the original.

dpkg is Debian/Ubuntu's file packaging protocol command.  Everything in the APT system is packaged as *.deb  Yum, on the other hand is *.rpm.  Anyway, dpkg can be used for non-repository files.  Say you want to download Adobe Acrobat for linux.  You might get the option of a *.deb preconfigured package.  That could easily be installed via deb.  There are plenty of other ways to test, build, install, and convert files, but I'd be on OC.net for six months and lose my job and domicile.

The main command is dpkg -l "*"

This means, dpkg with the list switch, and the star wildcard.  A wildcard (usually * or ?) allows you to enter a variable in place of characters.  Let's say I was looking for anything that looks like my nick, jordanz.  I would enter dpkg -l "jord*".  Anything resembling the first four letters would get listed.
 
Look for the following drivers using dpkg:

fglrx*
mesa*
ati*
raedon*

Cut n paste the results here.

Sorry I am doing this slowly, rather than just list a pile of commands and say "just do this".  Whenever I help people with computers I always try to give context rather than just leave someone to puzzle over the situation.  Also, one of the very basic components of linux housekeeping is understanding apt-get and dpkg.
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« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2011, 03:15:43 AM »

Ur nutz. linux is protestant all the way with a variety of denominations. It is a bottom up structure and sola scriptura.

Okay, this is how I see it.

Linux is RC because the desktop environment must be justified by a logical understructure that's easily accessible.  The graphical end user system can change radically (Tridentine to Novus Ordo to Byzantine to Clown Mass), but the Aristotelian-Aquinan logic of the dogmas remains the same.  In the end, Catholics can argue dogma and doctrine till they're blue in the face and come up with multiple derivations that "mean roughly the same thing".

Windows is Protestant because the underlying command system, MS-DOS, is very old but not syntactically rich.  There are only so many logical operations in MS-DOS.  If you try to invent novel approaches, DOS will soon reject them and force rigid and antiquated models.  This is similar to sola scriptura in that there is no "development of doctrine" other than "the Bible says it, that ends it!"
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« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2011, 04:02:58 AM »

As you requested (I do hope this doesn't bother anyone!):

Quote
dpkg -l "fglrx*"
Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name           Version        Description
+++-==============-==============-============================================
ii  fglrx          2:8.780-0ubunt Video driver for the ATI graphics accelerato
ii  fglrx-amdcccle 2:8.780-0ubunt Catalyst Control Center for the ATI graphics
un  fglrx-control  <none>         (no description available)
un  fglrx-control- <none>         (no description available)
un  fglrx-driver   <none>         (no description available)
un  fglrx-kernel-s <none>         (no description available)
ii  fglrx-modalias 2:8.780-0ubunt Identifiers supported by the ATI graphics dr

dpkg -l "mesa*"
Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name           Version        Description
+++-==============-==============-============================================
un  mesa-utils     <none>         (no description available)
un  mesag3         <none>         (no description available)


dpkg -l "ati*"
No packages found matching ati*.

dpkg -l "raedon*"
No packages found matching raedon*.

I'm glad you're doing it slowly! I like to (try to) understand what I'm doing and how things work...

Did I mention I appreciate this?


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« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2011, 06:54:21 AM »

As you requested (I do hope this doesn't bother anyone!):

Okay, this is what the output means.

Your system automagically installed the fglrx driver during primary installation (?)  fglrx is a nasty beast of a driver, 79 mb or something.  The open-source ati, mesa, and raedon drivers are much cleaner.  fglrx works, and I like working, so we're going to stick with it.

now, this is a bit tricky.

Your computer has "users".  When you log in to your computer (or your computer autologins, please turn this off, unsafe), you almost always do so under a user name.  When you enter terminal, you are one layer above the root account.  You need to set your root password, but find an in real life nerd to help you do this. 

When you open your terminal and type cd /, you will see something like:

x@y:/$

x is your user name

y is your computer name

Remember, when you see the $ that means you are in a user-level account.

When you see #, you are in root.

There are many many differences between $ and #, but the short of it is when you are in $ you can't do much of anything without a circumlocution such as sudo which let you pretend that you're root when you're not.  Again, befriend a nerd in real life.  Have him or her sit down and walk you through the difference between user and root privileges.  Observe the following analogy 

car : gas :: nerd : Doritos and Slurpee

and you will successfully retain a nerd for personal help desk.

----------------------------------

Before cutting n pasting the following command,

more /home/*/.profile > /home/*/isobel.txt && nano /home/*/isobel.txt

replace the wildcard * with your user name.  Then cut n paste.

Leave the nano window up, and cut and paste the contents here.

---------------

Why is the file named isobel.txt?  Listening to Bjork and Portishead when typing this up.  Anything 90's britpop is great for obscene hours computer work.
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« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2011, 05:24:15 PM »

Jordanz,

Hi again... Is it really this in depth just to get my images to look right?

We're way in over my head now. Here's what came out:

Quote
     

# ~/.profile: executed by the command interpreter for login shells.
# This file is not read by bash(1), if ~/.bash_profile or ~/.bash_login
# exists.
# see /usr/share/doc/bash/examples/startup-files for examples.
# the files are located in the bash-doc package.

# the default umask is set in /etc/profile; for setting the umask
# for ssh logins, install and configure the libpam-umask package.
#umask 022

# if running bash
if [ -n "$BASH_VERSION" ]; then
    # include .bashrc if it exists
    if [ -f "$HOME/.bashrc" ]; then
        . "$HOME/.bashrc"
    fi
fi

# set PATH so it includes user's private bin if it exists
                               [ Read 22 lines ]
^G Get Help  ^O WriteOut  ^R Read File ^Y Prev Page ^K Cut Text  ^C Cur Pos
^X Exit      ^J Justify   ^W Where Is  ^V Next Page ^U UnCut Text^T To Spell

Thanks,

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« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2011, 07:57:02 PM »

Jordanz,

Hi again... Is it really this in depth just to get my images to look right?

Quite sorry.  This is the way I think through computer problems (albeit at a much faster pace).  I'm very slow but methodical.  I apologize for leading you down a rabbit hole.  If I were trying to fix someone's computer graphics, I would do these steps.   

What I am trying to do is see the way in which your monitor system interfaces with your computer.  Your computer monitor is running the correct resolution and appears to be utilizing the drivers correctly.  There is nothing physically wrong with your monitor.  The Linux kernel is processing video correctly.

The insane scripting is over. Phew!  Possible software-based issues:

Problems with video, such as youtube, sometimes have to do with a corrupted or obsolete Flash plug-in.  If you're watching youtube and the picture is in black-and-white, or has a greenish or pinkish tinge, there is a problem with Flash.

Other than that, you've exhausted my knowledge.

I hope, though, you have learned a bit about the Linux command structure and heuristic process.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 07:57:52 PM by jordanz » Logged
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