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Author Topic: Liturgy of St James  (Read 2097 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: October 11, 2013, 04:38:51 AM »

Liturgy of St. James celebrated on St. James' day (Metropolis of Kissamos & Selinos, Crete):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HnNBarSxf4
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG5JWZlpfBA
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« Reply #46 on: October 11, 2013, 04:59:57 AM »

Interesting. Is it normal that the Liturgy of St. James is celebrated versus populum?
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« Reply #47 on: October 11, 2013, 02:56:53 PM »

It should be revived in Palestine and neglected elsewhere. Idon't see the need for spread it outside of it'traditional area.

I don't see any problem if it's served once a year in other jurisdictions. It's really great to attend such old Liturgy, I think it call can enrich our spiritual life and develop our experience during "usual" Liturgy.

Serving it only once a year seems like a showpiece. Doesn't sound good when we're talking about liturgy.
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« Reply #48 on: October 11, 2013, 03:28:35 PM »

Interesting. Is it normal that the Liturgy of St. James is celebrated versus populum?

It seems to be the case in all the videos I have been able to find.
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« Reply #49 on: October 11, 2013, 03:57:57 PM »

Interesting. Is it normal that the Liturgy of St. James is celebrated versus populum?

It seems to be the case in all the videos I have been able to find.

You are welcome:

http://www.cerkiew.pl/index.php?id=33&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=11991&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=33&tx_ttnews%5Bnphoto%5D=1&cHash=c118d2a24cbb0dd3175d5ced79081521

http://www.cerkiew.pl/index.php?id=39&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=11989&tx_ttnews%5Bnphoto%5D=1&cHash=f97f48a287524b4410ea7d7167c492b6
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« Reply #50 on: October 11, 2013, 04:43:20 PM »


Ah, thank you.
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« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2013, 05:34:56 PM »

Serving it only once a year seems like a showpiece. Doesn't sound good when we're talking about liturgy.

What about ten times a year?  Would that make it less like a showpiece and more like a normal part of Church life? 
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« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2013, 09:47:03 PM »


http://www.cerkiew.pl/typo3temp/pics/18e24bb0ed.jpg
http://www.cerkiew.pl/uploads/pics/DSC01831.JPG

Those are some serious phelonia on those bishops. They look more like old Western chasubles than anything else. Any idea why they're being used?
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« Reply #53 on: October 12, 2013, 02:01:34 AM »

Serving it only once a year seems like a showpiece. Doesn't sound good when we're talking about liturgy.

What about ten times a year?  Would that make it less like a showpiece and more like a normal part of Church life? 

That would make more sense, yes
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« Reply #54 on: October 12, 2013, 06:12:41 AM »


<shrugs>
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« Reply #55 on: October 12, 2013, 07:58:04 AM »


They look like the length that is worn in Icons by St Basil the Great, St Cyril of Jerusalem, etc, etc, rather than Western chasubles.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 07:59:03 AM by zekarja » Logged

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« Reply #56 on: October 12, 2013, 10:39:41 AM »

That would make more sense, yes

Only because you already have a Liturgy used that much in one year and not any more than that, and you've taken that practice as a given. 

There are many services in the Church that only happen once a year, and those are not looked down upon as showpieces, but as part of our annual liturgical experience.  We accept them as a given. 

I don't really understand what makes the St James Liturgy a special case.     
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« Reply #57 on: October 12, 2013, 11:23:10 AM »

That would make more sense, yes

Only because you already have a Liturgy used that much in one year and not any more than that, and you've taken that practice as a given. 

There are many services in the Church that only happen once a year, and those are not looked down upon as showpieces, but as part of our annual liturgical experience.  We accept them as a given. 

I don't really understand what makes the St James Liturgy a special case.     

That makes sense in a way, but those other annual services are enshrined in the Tradition, they are greatly anticipated and viewed as a norm by those who understand, even just the rudimentary basics, the Typicon.
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« Reply #58 on: October 12, 2013, 01:10:04 PM »

That would make more sense, yes

Only because you already have a Liturgy used that much in one year and not any more than that, and you've taken that practice as a given. 

There are many services in the Church that only happen once a year, and those are not looked down upon as showpieces, but as part of our annual liturgical experience.  We accept them as a given. 

I don't really understand what makes the St James Liturgy a special case.     

That makes sense in a way, but those other annual services are enshrined in the Tradition, they are greatly anticipated and viewed as a norm by those who understand, even just the rudimentary basics, the Typicon.

In a number of traditions (such as those who come from Jerusalem & Cyprus) The Liturgy of St. James has been served for centuries, and looked forward to just as any of the Holy Week services.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 01:10:25 PM by arimethea » Logged

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« Reply #59 on: October 12, 2013, 01:57:14 PM »


The latter is not much different from normal phelonion:



It's only Greek, not Russian so it stands out.

The former one:



On the other hand seems to be equally long from back and front side. And yes, that's uncommon.
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« Reply #60 on: October 12, 2013, 01:59:45 PM »

However not uncommon as one would suppose:



BTW Again normal orientation.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 02:02:42 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged

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« Reply #61 on: October 12, 2013, 02:06:10 PM »

Where is the service happening? Anyhow, the Liturgy of St. James is very interesting and beautiful if done right. For instance, the way that clergy commune was once the way that the people communed as well. That is alive in the Liturgy of St. James.
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« Reply #62 on: October 12, 2013, 02:09:30 PM »

Where is the service happening?

St. Nicholas cathedral in Białystok.
lower church of St. Mary Magdalene in Warsaw (IDK what it is dedicated to)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 02:09:44 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged

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« Reply #63 on: October 12, 2013, 02:17:46 PM »

lower church of St. Mary Magdalene in Warsaw (IDK what it is dedicated to)

Found it, Passion. I didn't even know a church can be dedicated to Passion. Sounds strangely.
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« Reply #64 on: October 12, 2013, 02:25:32 PM »

However not uncommon as one would suppose:
I've seen that one as well, and again, that's from a Liturgy of St. James. Is that one being celebrated in Poland as well? (I'm wondering if this is just something Polish bishops do, or if it's common elsewhere for bishops celebrating the Liturgy of St. James.)
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« Reply #65 on: October 12, 2013, 02:30:42 PM »

Is that one being celebrated in Poland as well? (I'm wondering if this is just something Polish bishops do, or if it's common elsewhere for bishops celebrating the Liturgy of St. James.)

No. No idea where is it from.

It's done only in two places in Poland.
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« Reply #66 on: October 24, 2013, 02:06:18 AM »

It should be revived in Palestine and neglected elsewhere. Idon't see the need for spread it outside of it'traditional area.

The only place it has been in continuous use until today is Greece, so I don't think it is unreasonable for it to be used more frequently by the Patriarchates of Antioch (where St. James used to be the primary liturgy) and Constantinople (whose liturgical tradition is Syro-Palestinian in origin), as well as the churches of Cyprus and Greece which were previously under their jurisdiction.

I recall the late and great Archbishop Iakovos, of thrice blessed memory, used to celebrate this on his name's day each year. Otherwise, I have no recollection of its use in America. 
Metropolitan Iakovos of Chicago, for the same reason.

I've been to a so-called Liturgy of St. James on his feast day, but it looked exactly the same as St. John or St. Basil, only the silent prayers were different.
I went today (Many Years!).  It was done (and quite well) according to the service, except that the laity communed with both kinds together instead of separately.  Quite different from St. John or St. Basil, in more than just the silent prayers.  For one thing, it was nearly twice as long as the average DL at Annunciation Cathedral.
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