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Author Topic: New Calendar in the Czarist Church  (Read 1030 times) Average Rating: 0
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ialmisry
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« on: March 24, 2011, 02:06:35 PM »

Just came across this. Since the Mother of All Calendar Threads is closed, I opened this one.
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PROPOSED REFORMATION OF THE CALENDAR BY THE RUSSIAN ASTRONOMERS.

IN a late issue of the Russian Orthodox American Messenger we find the following:

"The revision of the Julian Calendar. (A report by Professor Glasenapp, published in the 'Novoye Vremia'.)"

The Russian Astronomical Society appointed a special commission, containing representatives of the different state departments and scientific societies, to examine into the question of the revision of the Julian calendar. This commission appointed Professor Glasenapp to make a report of the results of their conferences. The professor in his report gives the following reasons for a reformation: First. "The Julian calendar in use in Russia is a heathen one. The light of Christianity never touched it at all."

Second. That its intercalation is incorrect to the extent of one day in 128 years.

Third. That the Gregorian calendar is also imperfect in allowing three days in 400 years for the accumulated error in the Julian, instead of three days in 384 years (3 x 128).

Fourth. That the dates of the calendar should be so changed as to have the date of the vernal equinox conform to the date on which it fell at the birth of Christ, namely, the 23d of March.

Fifth. That the names of the months should be changed because they are of pagan origin.

As the Russian Church refused to acknowledge the Pope's supremacy after the completion of the Greek schism, under Michael Cerularius, in the middle of the eleventh century, Russia did not fall into line like the other Christian States in adopting the Gregorian calendar; consequently their calendar (the Julian) is still in vogue in all those countries adhering to the Greek Church (Russia, Greece, Servia, Bulgaria, etc.), and their vernal equinox is thirteen days ahead of ours, 1900 being a leap year according to the Julian calendar.

Before examining the claims put forward by the Russian astronomers for a revision of the calendar it is necessary to give a brief history of this calendar with reference to chronology, showing the gross errors made by those ancient "time keepers."

The eminent astronomer, Herschell, in speaking of chronology, or the calculation of ancient observation, says that "it may be compared to that of a clock, going regularly when left to itself, but sometimes forgotten to be wound up; and when wound, sometimes set forward, sometimes backward, either to serve particular purposes and private interests, or to rectify blunders in setting."

If the Russians adopted the Gregorian calendar now, on the eve of a new century, as had been recommended in 1830 by their Academy of Sciences (it is actually in use to-day by her scientific men), all this difficulty of revision and confusion of dates could be avoided, as the Gregorian clock will be correct to a day until the year 4905— thirty centuries hence. May we not hope that long before that remote period is reached the true skin underneath the hardened Russian cuticle (alluded to by Napoleon) will become Roman, not Tartar?
Of course, the last part is stupid: the Muslims use a lunar calendar.  The Roman part is just wishful thinking.
http://books.google.com/books?id=T0EQAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA757&dq=Russian+American+Orthodox++messenger&hl=en&ei=qneLTe3lKIPVgAfUrP27DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CFcQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=Russian%20American%20Orthodox%20%20messenger&f=false

The Russian American Orthodox Messenger was the offiicial organ of the Archdiocese of North America under Abp. (then Patriarch of Moscow) St. Tikhon, edited by St. Alexander Hotovitsky, and approved by the Russian Censor (which, it appears, was St. Alexis Toth).
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« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2011, 03:53:43 PM »



The Russian American Orthodox Messenger was the offiicial organ of the Archdiocese of North America under Abp. (then Patriarch of Moscow) St. Tikhon, edited by St. Alexander Hotovitsky, and approved by the Russian Censor (which, it appears, was St. Alexis Toth).

Thanks for this. My dad often spoke of this, but he only recalled it without a source. He always insisted that the Revolution derailed this movement and blamed the Communists for the calendar mess, not the Greeks.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 04:18:44 PM by podkarpatska » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2011, 04:00:06 PM »

That's very interesting. Too bad it didn't go through.
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ialmisry
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« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2011, 03:40:48 PM »

Christos Voskrese!
Christ is risen!
I don't think the Ecumenical Patriarchate has a presence in Africa (it recognizes the continent as the canonical territory of the Church of Alexandria), but I could be wrong.

Vis-a-vis the calendar I've only found information on the representation in Jo'burg (St. Sergius') and it's Julian calendar - I'd assume the representation in Cairo is old style as well and it'd make sense for the representation being built in Addis to be the same given that the Ethiopian calendar is on the same wavelength as the Julian.

ROCOR Church in Uganda is Julian, or was last I corresponded with them.  I guess there is not as much need to fit in with the world when you are on Bukasa Island.
Fit in with the world or sell out to the world?  You won't find anyone using the Old Calendar with electric organs like in much of the GOA in the US, priests dressed in Latin clerical shirts or indeed engaging with the heterodox except in the context of vigorous missionary work like in Bukasa with collaboration being about shared social issues, not shared worship.

I think the MP and Old Calendar churches - the majority of Orthodox Christians still manage to live in the secular world and "cope" with the burden of a Church Calendar that doesn't need to fit with secular pagan Christmas, or need change because it never needed reform and was only altered by those infused with the non-Orthodox values of the Enlightenment.

You will find no disagreement with you on this issue from me, Brother - particularly your last statement.
Unfortunately Moscow strained out the gnat of the Calendar revision and swallowed the camel of the Petrine deforms.  Romania adopted the Revision and her Church went through communism in far better shape than Russia's did. And for most of the existence of Communist Moscow (which did again center Russia on Moscow) her patriarchate was on the Old Calendar.

I'm sorry, but your post makes no sense.  I am totally missing the point that you are trying to make.  You keep trying to bring up Communism, but neither Russia nor Romania is Communist.  It seems that in both countries, the Church triumphed over the atheists.  There is no continent on the face of the Earth where the Russian Orthodox Church does not exist.  It even exists in space.  Can Romania, or any other Orthodox Church say that?  You are having to dig pretty deep to find excuses for your Church's break from worshiping with the Universal Church.  And really, that is all they are - excuses.
The point is that those who boast of what a magic cure all the calendar is refuse to confront the fact that Czar Peter did far, FAR more damage to the Orthodox Church than they accuse Met/Abp/EP/Pope Meletios of doing.  If you want to showcase the triumph of secularism, the world and the heterodox/heretics, look there.

Univesal Church nothing: the various Churches with their various calendars did not begin to synchrnoize throughout the world until Nicea (remember the rebuke of Pope St. Victor?), and even then it did not start to become a reality until the Novella of Justinian and the institution of the indiction, i.e. the secular world and its astronomically based calendar.

Others keep on bringing up Communism, as an excuse to deflect the failure of the Old Calendar to save Orthdooxy, despite their boasting.

Outside of Antarctica, yes, my own race the Arabs are on every continent. And the Greeks, and the Romanians.  The Bulgarians are even on Antarctica.  I don't know how much they are on one continent (South America, although its largest country just elected a Bulgarian Communist President). The space question has already been answered.

The Russia Church is a great Church, but the Old Calendar is NOT one of the pillars of its greatness.
Given that I have been told not to go on about the Calendar - whether Old or the many versions of the New - aka 'revised'etc that you clearly favor, I won't go on about the Old calendar. 

Peter the Great........ for heaven's sake the Patriarchate has been restored for almost 100 years.  The Synodical government of the Church of Russia is long buried just as the Sergianist era MP issues are largely buried.  What is appropriate is the consideration that 75% of the world's Orthodox Christians are under the omophor of the Russian Orthodox Church, compared with perhaps 5% under Constantinople, which is not even free to practice Orthodoxy in its own heartland of Turkey. 

You say that the Old Calendar didn't save the Russian Church?  I think it did, because the Renovationist schism sought to implement all manner of reforms - married bishops, modernised and shortened liturgies and of course a secular calendar.
What you think doesn't matter: where are your facts?

Fact: one of the reasons the Russian HATED the Czarina St. Alexandra the Passion-Bearer is because, unlike the vast majority of the Russian aristocracy, she took Orthodoxy seriously.  Russian society condemned her as a German prude and a bore when she struck from invitation lists those who were more notoriously flaunting their affairs and adultery.  Russian society wrote her off as aloof when she prefrered her daily devotions to their frivalities. And Russian society was on the Old Calendar, civil and ecclesiastical.

Fact: Greece went on the New Calendar, and not only did it not get married bishops, modernised (its language is even more archaic than Slavonic) and shortened liturgies, but it didn't get a Communist government either. On the Old Calendar, its Church was headed by a son of the Vatican and a Lutheran, due to imitation of Peter's synodal government.

Fact: Romania went on the New Calendar, and although it did get modern liturgies (Romanian doesn't have much archaism in it to speak of, and it revises its texts periodically, to keep them UNDERSTOOD) they weren't shortened (Romanians like sticking things in, like memorials), and it didn't get married bishops.  It did, however, survive Communism almost completely intact, with religious devoition and respect for the Church at a far, far higher level than Russia.  On the Old Calendar, it too, in imitation of Peter's synodal government, was headed by sons of the Vatican, who unconstitutionally gave much away to their "Mother Church."

Fact: Alexandria and Antioch are on the New Calendar, and they are in far, far better shape than Old Calendar Jerusalem.

Fact: if the reform synod of Russia (including the calendar question, as shown above) had taken place earlier than the Bolshevik revolution, the renovationists and Communists may never have dominated the Church.

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« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2011, 05:31:24 PM »

Better shape?  Really?  Or just more aligned with the World.  The devil does not war against what is already his. 
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ialmisry
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« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2011, 06:21:50 PM »

Better shape?  Really?  Or just more aligned with the World.  The devil does not war against what is already his. 
yes, and the tomb worshippers in Jerusalem are doing his work for him.

Yes. Better shape.
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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