Author Topic: ROCOR IN RUSSIA  (Read 6437 times)

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Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Offline Ben

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2004, 11:21:09 PM »
"WOW" is exactly what I said when I saw the picture.
"I prefer to be accused unjustly, for then I have nothing to reproach myself with, and joyfully offer this to the good Lord. Then I humble myself at the thought that I am indeed capable of doing the thing of which I have been accused. " - Saint

Offline Tikhon29605

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2004, 02:09:58 AM »
Call me an optimist, but wouldn't it be GREAT if not only Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR could be reconciled to each other, but that a fruit of that reconciliation might be restored communion between the OCA and ROCOR in the US?  I hope it happens.  We need each other. As an OCA person, let me state that I highly respect ROCOR and long for the day we can be ONE Church again.

Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2004, 11:37:42 AM »
I've noticed that the only ones screaming like fools against this dialogue are the ones who have already left ROCOR.(some many years ago!) My question is- at this point, what business is it of yours? How does it effect you? Why do you care if it happens, since in your eyes ROCOR has already fallen into heresy?
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist". - Archbishop Hélder Pessoa Câmara

Offline ania

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2004, 11:38:32 AM »
Actually right now there are a couple ROCOR priests who are going a little loony... we'll see how it develops.
Now where were we? Oh yeah - the important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn’t have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...

Offline countrymouse

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2004, 11:45:14 AM »
Call me an optimist, but wouldn't it be GREAT if not only Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR could be reconciled to each other, but that a fruit of that reconciliation might be restored communion between the OCA and ROCOR in the US?  I hope it happens.  We need each other. As an OCA person, let me state that I highly respect ROCOR and long for the day we can be ONE Church again.

So do I, Tikhon.

Offline Twenty Nine

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2004, 12:26:14 PM »
Quote
My question is- at this point, what business is it of yours? How does it effect you? Why do you care if it happens, since in your eyes ROCOR has already fallen into heresy?

Because if it does not happen, it gives their church more "legitimacy" in their eyes.

Greg
Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. - Philippians 4:8

Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2004, 12:50:49 PM »
True. Now, even the people who were crying heresy over 20 years ago can say "I told you so!".
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist". - Archbishop Hélder Pessoa Câmara

Offline Asteriktos

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2004, 01:10:56 PM »
I can just feel the love here! :)

For my own part, I don't think ROCOR has fallen into heresy or schism, which is why I have expressed my concern so strongly in the past 6 months. I suppose it's easier for everyone to just make sweeping condemnations though, eh? Those who left ROCOR can call the ROCOR people "pro-union apostates," and those who are still in ROCOR can call those who left ROCOR "loons" and "converts who never got it anyway".

Recently confirmed loon,

Justin :)
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Offline Twenty Nine

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2004, 01:56:35 PM »
Quote
I suppose it's easier for everyone to just make sweeping condemnations though, eh?

Hi Justin!

I believe that those "hardliners" make excellent points and I agree with many of the things they say. I'm sure that many of them simply want to follow Christ within what they perceive as the Church. They want nothing to do with bad ecumenism (ie, liturgical "get togethers"), but are very open to honest and uncompromising discussions. Personally, I believe that they are right on the money and that this is the Orthodox understanding. They also make good arguments for the use of the Old Calendar. As a member of the OCA, I would be happy if we went back to the Old Calendar.

I consider myself a "traditionalist". I believe that liturgical gatherings with non-Orthodox is a BIG no-no and that it is heretical. Simply because the Divine Services are the physical and mystical expressions of the One, True Faith. I try to say my prayers each day, fast to the best of my abilities by the Grace of God and give thanks to God for everything and everyone I come into contact with.

However, breaking communion is a big deal. If there are people in your house that are sick, do you leave the house and tell them they are sick and pray that they get better? Or do you stay in the house and nurse them back to health? If they are dead, they are dead and their bodies leave the house. But if it is clear that they are sick and healing can occur if one stays in the house and continuously ministers to them out of charity and love, is not this much better?

You have to ask yourself at what point do you break communion. At what point is a church considered dead and cannot be helped from within? At what point is a church Graceless? The Canons are important, but are they above charity? Are there any churches out there that have not broken at least one canon?

Greg
Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. - Philippians 4:8

Offline Asteriktos

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2004, 02:00:24 PM »
I think you make a lot of good points, Greg. I guess the problem is in how we answer those questions you raised! :)
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Offline romanbyzantium

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2004, 08:47:12 PM »
http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/english/index.html

WOW!

what does the white symbolize? why do some wear black and others white? what is the significance of it all?


Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2004, 11:04:00 PM »
The ROCOR delegation is not vested(i.e. not wearing white), which means they are not concelebrating with the Moscow Patriarchate, who are vested.
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist". - Archbishop Hélder Pessoa Câmara

Offline romanbyzantium

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2004, 11:08:48 PM »
The ROCOR delegation is not vested(i.e. not wearing white), which means they are not concelebrating with the Moscow Patriarchate, who are vested.

So a white hat means that that oerson is going to celebrate the liturgy?

Offline ambrosemzv

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2004, 10:21:10 AM »
No, I don't think Bogoliubtsy knew which specific photo you were speaking of.  The white kobluk and veil are worn by Metropolitans when they are wearing their normal monastic attire.  That Metropolitan Laurus is, in this photo, in his normal black monastic attire signifies he is not concelebrating.  The bishop wearing the crown and rich gown is, I believe, Alexii, Patriarch of Moscow and all Rus'.  He is vested to celebrate the Divine Liturgy.

I hope your phrase, "so a white hat means that person . . ." is not intended to be as dismissive as it sounds in English.  I'm aware language barriers can sometimes cause misunderstandings.
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Offline ania

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2004, 12:30:30 PM »
Would like to point out a little know fact about Met. Lavr...  He really doesn't wear his white "hat" often.  In Jordanville where he lives, on weekends he will where the white klobuk, on week days it's his normal black, usually without the cross signifying that he's an archbishop.  I remember, on Christmas, he wore the white one the first 2 days, next day it was back to ordinary black.  And no, they haven't served together... yet... :-D
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Offline Fr. David

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2004, 12:57:57 PM »
Call me an optimist, but wouldn't it be GREAT if not only Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR could be reconciled to each other, but that a fruit of that reconciliation might be restored communion between the OCA and ROCOR in the US?  I hope it happens.  We need each other. As an OCA person, let me state that I highly respect ROCOR and long for the day we can be ONE Church again.

Me too, Tikhon29605.
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Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2004, 01:11:34 PM »

http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/news04/onthevisit.html
Moscow: May 18, 2004

On the Visit to Russia of the Official Delegation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia

In these joyous Paschal days, an official delegation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, headed by its First Hierarch, Metropolitan Laurus of Eastern America and New York, came to Russia at the invitation of the Russian Orthodox Church.

On May 14, 2004, the day the delegation arrived in Moscow, His Eminence Metropolitan Laurus had a meeting with His Holiness Patriarch Alexy II. The discussion was held in a warm atmosphere of mutual understanding. The following day, the delegation members prayed at the service performed by His Holiness the Patriarch at Butovo Polygon, the site of the murder of countless martyrs by the godless regime, many of whom have been glorified as saints. The delegates also made a pilgrimage to Donskoy and Danilov Monasteries, Holy Trinity-St. Sergius Lavra and the holy sites of the Moscow Kremlin.

On May 17-18, joint discussions between the delegates of the Russian Church Abroad and those of the Moscow Patriarch were held. On May 18, these discussions were held under the chairmanship of His Holiness Patriarch Alexy II of Moscow and All Russia.

Participating in the discussions on behalf of the Moscow Patriarchate were Metropolitan Juvenaly of Krutitsy and Kolomna, President of the Synodal Commission on the Glorification of Saints; Metropolitan Kirill of Smolensk and Kaliningrad, President of the Department of External Church Relations of the Moscow Patriarchate; Archbishop Innokenty of Korsun, President of the Synodal Committee on Dialog with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia; Protopriest Vladislav Tsypin of the Historical-Judicial Committee of the of the Moscow Patriarchate; the Prior of Sretensky Monastery, Archimandrite Tikhon (Shevkunov); Protopriest Leonid Roldugin, Dean of the Preobrazhensky Deanery of Moscow; Protopriest Nikolai Balashov, Secretary of the Inter-Orthodox Relations of the Department of External Church Relations of the Moscow Patriarchate; Protopriest Georgii Mitrofanov, a teacher of St. Petersburg Theological Seminary and Protopriest Maksim Kozlov, Associate Professor of the Moscow Theological Academy.

The official delegation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia at the discussions was headed by Metropolitan Laurus of Eastern America and New York. Comprising the delegation were also Archbishop Mark of Berlin, Germany and Great Britain, President of the Committee on Discussions with the Moscow Patriarchate; Archbishop Kyrill of Western America and San Francisco; Protopriest Alexander Lebedeff, Rector of Holy Transfiguration Cathedral in Los Angeles and Secretary of the Committee on Discussions with the Moscow Patriarchate; Protopriest Peter Perekrestov, Secretary of the Western American Diocese; Protopriest Nikolai Artemoff, Secretary of the German Diocese; Protopriest Peter Holodny, Treasurer of the Synod of Bishops; Priest Serafim Gan, member of the administration of the Synod of Bishops, and Priest Pavel Ivanov, clergyman of Holy Trinity Monastery in Jordanville, NY.

Expressed at the joint discussions was the common desire of the Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia to overcome the tragic division of our people, which arose as a result of the revolution and civil war, and the desire to achieve the reestablishment of Eucharistic communion and canonical unity within one Local Russian Orthodox Church, an indissoluble part of which the Russian Church Abroad always sensed itself. Our goal is to draw nearer that day when with one mouth and one heart we would glorify God.

An important role in the resolution of various problems which hinder the restoration of the fullness of communion is reserved for the Committees which were established in December 2003 by the hierarchies of the Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia. The Committees, having earlier worked separately, will in the near future commence working jointly. The Committees are charged with developing a common understanding on the following matters, based on the historical experience of the Russian Church and the problems facing the Church today:

    * The principles of the relationship between the Church and state in accordance with the teachings of the Church;
    * The principles of the relationship between the Orthodox Church and heterodox communities and inter-confessional organizations in accordance with Church traditions;
    * The status of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia as a self-governing part of the Russian Orthodox Church;
    * The canonical conditions for the establishment of Eucharistic communion.

The Committees must prepare, by God's will, a joint statement on the above questions of principle, which is to reflect their current understanding of both the Church in Russia and the Church Abroad. This statement will be presented for confirmation by the hierarchies of the Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Church Abroad.

It was recognized as necessary to continue the joint academic-historical study of church events of the 20th century, especially the examination of the podvig of the holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia and the experience of the Church existing under conditions of persecution by the godless regimes.

Witnessing with joy the growing mutual understanding in discussing those topics which in the past were causes of division, the participants of these talks noted the importance of refraining from steps which could harm the further process of rapprochement, in part, from the expression of animosity. A special duty in this regard lies upon the clergymen and participants of church institutions.

The Delegation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia headed by His Eminence Metropolitan Laurus and the group of pilgrims accompanying him plans on May 19 to attend the consecration of the church of the Life-Giving Trinity in Borisovskiye Prudy, dedicated to the 1000 year anniversary of the baptism of Russia, and on the day of the Ascension of the Lord, May 20, to attend the patriarchal service in the Great Church of the Ascension at Nikitskiye Gates.

On May 21, the Delegation will depart for Ekaterinburg, where its members will pray at the site of the martyric end of the Royal Passion-bearers. The delegation also intends on visiting the holy sites of St. Petersburg, Sarov, Diveevo and Kursk. The Delegation will leave Russia on May 28.

The participants of the joint discussions in Moscow are full of faith that mortal weakness and limitations will be overcome by the power of God through the prayers of the New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia.

Christ is Risen!
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist". - Archbishop Hélder Pessoa Câmara

Offline countrymouse

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2004, 01:22:49 PM »
Bogoliubtsy, thank you tremendously for keeping us updated.  I pray that God will continue to heal this division.  It looks most hopeful!

Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2004, 01:41:17 PM »




http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/news04/bogoslovru.html

MOSCOW: 15 May 2004

Meeting of the Delegation of ROCOR with Students and Teachers of the Moscow Theological Academy
(An abridged transcript.)

 

His Eminence Metropolitan Laurus:

Christ is Risen!

I am happy that our Delegation visited the Lavra today. During today's service, we prayed together with the residents and worshipers here. This gave us a great deal of joy. I also thank Vladyka Evgenii, Rector of the Moscow Theological Academy, for his warm greeting and for organizing the meeting with the faculty and student body.

I thank Vladyka Evgenii also that in his greeting he emphasized the mutual desire of our Churches to find a path for rapprochement, so that we who are abroad could participate in church life in Russia. In connection with this, we met with His Holiness Patriarch Alexy and discussed important topics regarding our relationship.

I greet all the members of the Moscow Theological schools, wishing you success in the study of the theological disciplines, so that you could become worthy servants of the Church of Christ. May the Lord save you. Today's meeting with you, I hope, will also bring benefit to our Orthodox Churches.


Vladimir Burega, 4th year, MTA: Vladyka, what is the current situation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia? How many dioceses does it have, how many bishops and monasteries, in what countries is it found?

Metropolitan Laurus: the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia today is multi-faceted, since we are scattered throughout the whole world, in various countries. Parishes in dioceses in America or Australia are much different from the parishes of Europe. There are not so many of us, but the traditions of different parishes leave a mark on all of us. We need to adapt to local legal conditions, and some problems arise as a result, but in general we are united in one faith. The one wellspring we all come from is the Russian Church. As a result of individual problems faced by each parish, we have difficulties, but, still, we are like one closely-knit family. And of course, this makes our life different than yours. There are monasteries that have ten monks, there are printing shops, where we earnestly carry on our work, there are several monasteries in the Holy Land.

Sergei Zvonarev, 4th year, Moscow Theological Seminary: The matter of the imminent discussions: this will not be a one-day affair, this is a process which will take some time. How does the Church Abroad see this process? In your opinion, how much time is needed for the resolution of this question, and what matters have already been resolved today?

Protopriest Peter Perekrestov (Cathedral of the Mother of God "Joy of All Who Sorrow," San Francisco, where the relics of St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco are found): The Lord placed us in such historical circumstances which have a real possibility to heal the wound of the Russian Church, the wound of division. Among our parishioners and clergymen there are various opinions: some are more emotional, others even have a fanatical bent. We can understand all of them: for 80 years there was one kind of church life, and now, all of a sudden, it seems, it is changing, they are afraid to betray the legacy they received, so I think that we must take this into account, but we should not tarry. Everyone knows that any kind of unity does not just consist of signatures and stamps on documents, organic unity is needed. It is not quite right to set deadlines, so as not to introduce man's wishes, man's program, into God's plans, but it must be done with common good will and prayer. The Lord will show us the way, and the Body of Christ will gradually be healed. This can be done much sooner than we think, but on the other hand, it may not be.

Reader Vyacheslav, 3rd year, MTA: What are the actual problems faced by the Russian Church Abroad which demand theological resolution?

Protopriest Peter Perekrestov: Our part of the Russian Church has tried to preserve all that we were given. When in the West some fairly liberal views developed, we did not accept them, and for this reason we do not have these particular problems. I can speak on a problem in our city. Everyone knows that in San Francisco, same-sex marriages are allowed. This means that our parishioners and their children will live in a world which has as yet never existed. In connection with this, we are convening many symposia and are trying to address this type of matter.

Archbishop Evgenii, Rector of the MTA: Is there a practice of sending your seminary students to heterodox educational institutions for higher theological learning?

Protopriest Peter Perekrestov: As far as I know, some seminary graduates who wish to obtain higher degrees do enroll in educational institutions of other countries.

Archbishop Mark of Berlin, Germany and Great Britain: The situation of our pastors today is such that they need to spend more time doing specifically pastoral work. Our parishes are different than those of Russia. Our clergymen visit people scattered over hundreds of kilometers; one is often shocked at the distances that must be traveled by a priest in order to visit a sick person or someone who needs their ministry. This leaves very little time for other activity.

Boris Ryedkin, 3rd year, MTS: You Eminence, this question concerns the contradictions between our Churches. At the Council of Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church in 2000, a series of documents were adopted which touched upon these contradictions, and certain statements were made concerning the matter of church-state relations and the matter of ecumenism. How do you evaluate the degree to which these contradictions were eliminated, and what else is not reflected in the documents of the Russian Orthodox Church in order to remove these contradictions?

Archbishop Mark of Berlin, Germany and Great Britain: In regard to the relations between the state and the Church, the document you mentioned assumes a position that is fully acceptable. The question can only be of some details in order that such things never happen again. In regard to ecumenism, much that is correct is put down on paper, but, unfortunately, in practice it is a different matter: our confession of Orthodoxy and heterodoxy is in many ways put into question. When an Orthodox bishop blesses the people along with a Protestant woman bishop--I feel that no one needs such theatrics, there is no good to come of this. That is why it would be good to make certain clarifications about how we must bear witness within the heterodox world. For us this is a real problem, since we are in direct contact with the heterodox world, and so for this we need precise delineation in these matters.

Hegumen Vsevolod, Librarian of the MTA: Your Eminence, in the 1950's, Fr. Konstantin Zaitsev said that the danger will arise in the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia of dissolution of the generations into those of different languages and different faiths. How urgent is this problem? And a second question: what is your opinion on the translation of divine services into the Russian language?

Protopriest Alexander Lebedeff, Rector of Holy Transfiguration Cathedral in Los Angeles: The matter of the reevaluation of the use of Church Slavonic in divine services or the adaptation of it into the more accessible Russian language does not stand before us in the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia at all. Our Church, as a result of various circumstances, is very conservative, we are against all liberal tendencies. We live in the Western world and are perpetually surrounded not only by the heterodox, but by representatives of the Local Orthodox Churches which have embarked upon the path of liberalism: almost every church of theirs has pews, some have organs, the services are translated into contemporary everyday language, the appearance of clergymen is that of Protestant pastors. We firmly struggle against this, we try to rear our parishioners in the spirit of strict Orthodoxy.

« Last Edit: May 18, 2004, 01:43:46 PM by Bogoliubtsy »
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist". - Archbishop Hélder Pessoa Câmara

Offline romanbyzantium

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2004, 08:20:52 PM »
No, I don't think Bogoliubtsy knew which specific photo you were speaking of.  The white kobluk and veil are worn by Metropolitans when they are wearing their normal monastic attire.  That Metropolitan Laurus is, in this photo, in his normal black monastic attire signifies he is not concelebrating.  The bishop wearing the crown and rich gown is, I believe, Alexii, Patriarch of Moscow and all Rus'.  He is vested to celebrate the Divine Liturgy.

I hope your phrase, "so a white hat means that person . . ." is not intended to be as dismissive as it sounds in English.  I'm aware language barriers can sometimes cause misunderstandings.

Absolutely not. I called it a " white hat" because I just don't know what it is called.

Offline Orthodoc

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2004, 08:28:47 PM »
  2004.05.17 OCA Representation in Russia:

http://www.st-catherine.ru/en/news/0113.htm
Metropolitan LAVR of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad (ROCOR) receives
Representatives of the Serbian Orthodox Church and the Orthodox Church in
America for informal discussions

May 15, 2004
On Saturday evening, May 15, His Eminence, the Most Reverend Metropolitan
LAVR, first-hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad (ROCOR) received
Representative of the Serbian Orthodox Church to the Moscow Patriarchate,
Archimandrite Antony and Representative of the Orthodox Church in America,
Archimandrite Zacchaeus at St. Daniel's Hotel for informal discussions.
  During the course of the discussions, which were conducted in a spirit of
openness and brotherly Christian love, all participants expressed their
hopes for a fruitful and positive visit to Moscow for Metropolitan LAVR.

The Russian Orthodox Church Abroad has strong ties with Serbia as their
first synod of bishops was organized there. Presently, the majority of
parishes under the jurisdiction of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad are
in the United States of America.

Participating in the informal discussions were: Metropolitan LAVR,
Archbishop MARK of Berlin, Archimandrite Antony, Archimandrite Zacchaeus,
Archpriest Seraphim Gan, and Protodeacon Victor Lokhmatov.
==========

Orthodoc
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Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.

Offline David

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2004, 10:24:12 PM »
Ah, good.   Hopefully this will bear fruit within our lifetimes.
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Offline ania

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2004, 09:36:27 AM »
Absolutely not. I called it a " white hat" because I just don't know what it is called.

For future reference RB it's called a Klobuk. A metropolitan gets to wear a beliy (white) klobuk, while monastics wear chorniyi (black) klobuki.  Archbishops get to wear small crosses on their black klobuki.  Anyone know (I knew this but now I forget) what it is called the one the patriarch wears.
Now where were we? Oh yeah - the important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn’t have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...

Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2004, 11:24:20 PM »
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist". - Archbishop Hélder Pessoa Câmara

Offline ania

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2004, 10:23:14 AM »
Thanks Josh....
Now where were we? Oh yeah - the important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn’t have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...

Offline The young fogey

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2004, 10:46:52 AM »
Quote
Anyone know (I knew this but now I forget) what it is called the one the patriarch wears?

Guessing here: koukoulion? -¥-¦ -+-+-¦-Ä -+ -+-+-¦-+-¦-¦-¦ -+-¦ -+-+-¦-+ -¦-¦-¦ -+-¦-+-ï-¦-¦-¦-é-ü-Å -+-+--Ç-â-ü-ü-¦-+. -P-ç-¦-+-î -+-Ç-¦-¦-Ç-¦-ü-+-¦-Å -ê-+-Å-+-¦-¦ - it's a beautiful hat.

(Russian spelling fixed - -ü-+-¦-ü-+-¦-+, -É-+-Å!)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2004, 11:05:56 AM by Serge »
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Offline ania

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2004, 10:54:20 AM »
Thanks Serge!  It is a ochen prikrasnaya chlyapa.  :-D
Now where were we? Oh yeah - the important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn’t have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...

Offline Linus7

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2004, 10:57:47 AM »
Quote
ochen prikrasnaya

Those are the magic words I use to describe my wife in practically any article of clothing she purchases!  

They work wonders. ;D

The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers.
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Offline The young fogey

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2004, 11:00:16 AM »
OK, -ê-+-Å-+-¦-¦ - -ü-+-¦-ü-+-¦-+! Learn something new every day. (-ƒ-Ç-¦-¦-+-+-î-+-+ -ê, -+-¦ -ç.)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2004, 11:05:35 AM by Serge »
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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2004, 11:00:43 AM »
LOL Linus7
Now where were we? Oh yeah - the important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn’t have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...

Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Re:ROCOR IN RUSSIA
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2004, 01:35:22 AM »
From the webpage of the Moscow Patriarchate:
www.mospat.ru

On the Visit to Russia of the Official Delegation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia


In these joyous Paschal days, an official delegation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, headed by its First Hierarch, Metropolitan Laurus of Eastern America and New York, came to Russia at the invitation of the Russian Orthodox Church.

 

On May 14, 2004, the day the delegation arrived in Moscow, His Eminence Metropolitan Laurus had a meeting with His Holiness Patriarch Alexy II. The discussion was held in a warm atmosphere of mutual understanding. The following day, the delegation members prayed at the service celebrated by His Holiness the Patriarch at Butovo Polygon, the site of the murder of countless martyrs by the godless regime, many of whom have been glorified as saints. The delegates also made a pilgrimage to Donskoy and St.Daniel's Monasteries, the Laura of the Holy Trinity and St. Sergius and the holy sites of the Moscow Kremlin.

 

On May 17-18, joint discussions between the delegates of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia and those of the Moscow Patriarchate were held. On May 18, these discussions were held under the chairmanship of His Holiness Patriarch Alexy II of Moscow and All Russia.

 

Participating in the discussions on behalf of the Moscow Patriarchate were Metropolitan Juvenaly of Krutitsy and Kolomna, Chairman of the Synodal Commission on the Canonization; Metropolitan Kirill of Smolensk and Kaliningrad, Chairman of the Department for External Church Relations of the Moscow Patriarchate; Archbishop Innokenty of Korsun, Chairman of the Synodal Commission on Dialogue with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia; Archpriest Vladislav Tsypin of the Historical-Judicial Commission of the of the Moscow Patriarchate;, Archimandrite Tikhon (Shevkunov), father-superior of Sretensky Monastery; Archpriest Leonid Roldugin, Dean of the Preobrazhensky Deanery of Moscow; Archpriest Nikolai Balashov, Secretary of the Inter-Orthodox Relations of the Department for External Church Relations of the Moscow Patriarchate; Archpriest Georgy Mitrofanov, a teacher of St. Petersburg Theological Seminary and Archpriest Maksim Kozlov, Associate Professor of the Moscow Theological Academy.

 

The official delegation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia at the discussions was headed by Metropolitan Laurus of Eastern America and New York. Comprising the delegation were also Archbishop Mark of Berlin, Germany and Great Britain, President of the Committee on Discussions with the Moscow Patriarchate; Archbishop Kyrill of Western America and San Francisco; Protopriest Alexander Lebedeff, Rector of Holy Transfiguration Cathedral in Los Angeles and Secretary of the Committee on Discussions with the Moscow Patriarchate; Protopriest Peter Perekrestov, Secretary of the Western American Diocese; Protopriest Nikolai Artemoff, Secretary of the German Diocese; Protopriest Peter Holodny, Treasurer of the Synod of Bishops; Priest Serafim Gan, member of the administration of the Synod of Bishops, and Priest Pavel Ivanov, clergyman of Holy Trinity Monastery in Jordanville, NY.

 

Expressed at the joint discussions was the common desire of the Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia to overcome the tragic division of our people, which arose as a result of the revolution and civil war, and the desire to achieve the reestablishment of Eucharistic communion and canonical unity within one Local Russian Orthodox Church, an indissoluble part of which the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia always sensed itself. Our goal is to draw nearer that day when with one mouth and one heart we would glorify God.

 

An important role in the resolution of various problems that hinder the restoration of the fullness of communion is reserved for the Commissions established in December 2003 by the hierarchies of the Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia. The Commissions, having earlier worked separately, will in the near future commence working jointly. The Commissions are charged with developing a common understanding on the following matters, based on the historical experience of the Russian Church and the tasks facing the Church today:

 

The principles of the relationship between the Church and the state in accordance with the teaching of the Church;

 

The principles of the relationship between the Orthodox Church and heterodox communities and inter-confessional organizations in accordance with Church tradition;

 

The status of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia as a self-governing part of the Russian Orthodox Church;

 

The canonical conditions for the establishment of Eucharistic communion.

 

The Commissions must prepare, with God's help, a joint statement on the above questions of principle, which is to reflect their current understanding of both the Church in Russia and the Church Abroad. This statement will be presented for confirmation to the hierarchies of the Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia.

 

It was recognized as necessary to continue the joint academic-historical study of church events of the 20th century, especially the examination of the exploits of the holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia and the experience of the Church existing under conditions of persecution by the godless regimes.

 

Witnessing with joy the growing mutual understanding in discussing those topics which in the past were causes of division, the participants of these talks noted the importance of refraining from steps which could harm the further process of rapprochement, in particular, from the expression of animosity. A special responsibility in this regard lies upon the clergymen and representatives of church institutions.

 

The delegation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia headed by His Eminence Metropolitan Laurus and the group of pilgrims accompanying him plans on May 19 to attend the consecration of the church of the Life-Giving Trinity in Borisovskiye Prudy, dedicated to the 1000 year anniversary of the baptism of Russia, and on the day of the Ascension of the Lord, May 20, to attend the patriarchal service in the Great Church of the Ascension at Nikitskiye Gates.

 

On May 21, the delegation will depart for Yekaterinburg, where its members will pray at the site of the martyric end of the Royal Passion-bearers. The delegation also intends on visiting the holy sites of St. Petersburg, Sarov, Diveevo and Kursk. The delegation will leave Russia on May 28.

 

The participants of the joint discussions in Moscow are full of faith that mortal weakness and limitations will be overcome by the power of God through the prayers of the New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia.

 

Christ is Risen! He is Risen Indeed!
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist". - Archbishop Hélder Pessoa Câmara