Author Topic: New American Bible re-translation  (Read 2368 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mickey

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,309
New American Bible re-translation
« on: March 03, 2011, 11:43:55 AM »
I have just heard that a new translation of "The New American Bible" will be released on Roman Catholic Ash Wednesday.  Amongst other issues, there is a brewing controversy regarding the translation of Isaias 7:14.  The word "almah" has been translated as "young woman" instead of "virgin".  This seems to go against Sacred Tradition (St Simeon the Righteous) and the Septuagint translation.

Any thoughts?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 11:44:48 AM by Mickey »

Offline John Larocque

  • Catholic
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 530
Re: New American Bible re-translation
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2011, 12:06:49 PM »
Seems this will rub up against Rome. I wonder how many violations of Liturgiam Authenticam will be present in this new version. The Vatican likes formal-equivalence and doesn't like gender-neutral language. It also likes the new Vulgate - the Catholic Biblical Association of America, not so much.

http://www.bible-researcher.com/liturgiam-authenticam.html

There's additional information here on the NAB:
http://www.bible-researcher.com/nab.html

Regarding the 1986 NAB NT:
Quote
Pope John Paul II and other Vatican officials were not happy with this version, mainly because of the inclusive language, which was mandated by liturgical guidelines issued by a committee of the U.S. Catholic Conference in 1990 (2) but specifically disallowed by the provisional norms for translation of biblical texts sent by Vatican officials to American Bishops in June of 1997, (3) and also disallowed by the translation guidelines formally promulgated in an Instruction published by the Vatican Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments in March 2001. (4) And so, although the NAB is the "official" translation of the U.S. Conference of Bishops, it became necessary for the Scripture portions included in the liturgy of the English Mass to be revised. A complete overhaul so as to remove the inclusive language from the version, in accordance with the liturgical guidelines of the Vatican, would seem to be the next logical step; but this is unlikely to happen because opposition to the Vatican guidelines is very strong in the American hierarchy.

Yep, despite all the changes (to the OT) the 1986 NT was left untouched:
http://www.ewtnnews.com/catholic-news/US.php?id=2404

Quote
The revised edition includes the first revised translation of the Old Testament since 1970 and a complete revision of the Psalter. Work on most books of the Old Testament began in 1994 and finished in 2001. The 1991 revision of the Psalter
was further revised from 2009 to 2010. The new edition retains the 1986 edition of the New Testament.

« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 12:27:43 PM by John Larocque »

Offline Mickey

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,309
Re: New American Bible re-translation
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2011, 12:24:19 PM »
Seems this will rub up against Rome. I wonder how many violations of Liturgiam Authenticam will be present in this new version.
Good question, John.  We saw how many violations were present in the revised Divine Liturgy of the Byzantine Catholic (Ruthenian) Church.  I also wonder how many politically correct gender-neutral translations are present in this Bible.

Offline sainthieu

  • Abstractor of the Quintessence
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 621
Re: New American Bible re-translation
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2011, 02:21:34 PM »
"The word "almah" has been translated as "young woman" instead of "virgin"."

We're probably lucky they're not translating it into "person" this year.

These translators--who are doing the Devil's work and should be ejected vigorously from the church--are suffering from the virus of Relativism, which is laying waste to western culture. Since virtually everything in the Bible is the exact opposite of relativist, we can expect to see a lot more such transmogrification in the future. By the time these cretins are through, the "Bible" will be meaningless.

Unless Relativism is beaten back into oblivion, Christianity and Judaism are doomed. The only way to prevent that, is to fight to retain the meaning of words and pray that Relativism falls out of fashion.

Today, it ain't lookin' too good.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 02:22:34 PM by sainthieu »

Offline LRThunder

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: New American Bible re-translation
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2011, 02:36:48 PM »
And given that the New American Bible is the translation used at Catholic Mass in the U.S. (don't know about Canada), this could be even more problematic. 

Offline Deacon Lance

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,166
  • Faith: Byzantine Catholic
  • Jurisdiction: Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Re: New American Bible re-translation
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2011, 05:33:43 PM »
And given that the New American Bible is the translation used at Catholic Mass in the U.S. (don't know about Canada), this could be even more problematic. 

Actually it is not problematic at all.  The US Lectionary is the Revised NAB corrected according to Liturgiam Authenticam.  The USCCB does not to print a Bible with corrected text only the Lectionary.  The Canadian Lectionary is a corrected NRSV.
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Offline LRThunder

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: New American Bible re-translation
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2011, 05:43:56 PM »
And given that the New American Bible is the translation used at Catholic Mass in the U.S. (don't know about Canada), this could be even more problematic. 

Actually it is not problematic at all.  The US Lectionary is the Revised NAB corrected according to Liturgiam Authenticam.  The USCCB does not to print a Bible with corrected text only the Lectionary.  The Canadian Lectionary is a corrected NRSV.

Ah...thanks for the clarification. 

Offline Robb

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,537
Re: New American Bible re-translation
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2011, 11:53:42 PM »
While its true that this current revised version, like its 1986 predecessor is not to be used Liturgically, it will still become the number one Bible used by Catholics in schools, and for private devotions.  This is exactly what happened with the 1986 revision.  So don't think that simply because this Bible isn't being read at mass every Sunday does not mean that it will have no impact on Catholic life in America, on the contrary it will be, no doubt forced down the RC faithfuls throats with relative speed and not much opposition (There were tons of people opposed to the 86 revision, but what good did they do).
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 11:54:18 PM by Robb »
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert

Offline Deacon Lance

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,166
  • Faith: Byzantine Catholic
  • Jurisdiction: Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Re: New American Bible re-translation
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2011, 12:24:38 AM »
Robb,

The revisions, inclusive language aside, were often a return to more traditional language.  Compare the NAB, RNAB, and Confraternity versions and you will the Confraternity and RNAB line up in many instances.  As to being shoved done their throats, they can't be forced to buy it.  The D-R Challoner and RSV-CE are readily available and selling well.

Fr. Deacon Lance
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Offline WetCatechumen

  • Roman Catholic
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 297
Re: New American Bible re-translation
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2011, 12:40:43 AM »
"The word "almah" has been translated as "young woman" instead of "virgin"."

We're probably lucky they're not translating it into "person" this year.

These translators--who are doing the Devil's work and should be ejected vigorously from the church--are suffering from the virus of Relativism, which is laying waste to western culture. Since virtually everything in the Bible is the exact opposite of relativist, we can expect to see a lot more such transmogrification in the future. By the time these cretins are through, the "Bible" will be meaningless.

Unless Relativism is beaten back into oblivion, Christianity and Judaism are doomed. The only way to prevent that, is to fight to retain the meaning of words and pray that Relativism falls out of fashion.

Today, it ain't lookin' too good.

I agree. The English translators for the Church have done an awful job recently, reflecting exactly what you have said. This change is terrible - even the Vulgate renders it "virgo".
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 12:41:09 AM by WetCatechumen »
"And because they have nothing better to do, they take cushion and chairs to Rome. And while the Pope is saying liturgy, they go, 'Oh, oh, oh, filioque!' And the Pope say, 'Filioque? That-uh sound nice! I think I divide-uh the Church over it!'" - Comrade Real Presence

Offline Fr. George

  • formerly "Cleveland"
  • Administrator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,210
  • May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Re: New American Bible re-translation
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2011, 12:45:59 AM »
Amongst other issues, there is a brewing controversy regarding the translation of Isaias 7:14.  The word "almah" has been translated as "young woman" instead of "virgin".  This seems to go against Sacred Tradition (St Simeon the Righteous) and the Septuagint translation.

It's an old issue.  Yes, there is a separate word in Hebrew for "virgin," and "Almah" translates strictly as "young woman" (an old woman who is a virgin is not an "almah") but "almah" implies virginity, as an "almah" is unmarried (a young woman who is married is not an "almah").  Anyone who attempts to use the re-translation of "almah" as "young woman" to counter the Septuagint's "virgin" will be as wrong as someone who believes that "almah" strictly means "virgin."

There was obviously a strong enough meaning of "virgin woman" in "almah" for the multiple Jewish scholars who translated the Hebrew into Greek before the time of Christ for official use by Jews in the lands outside of Israel (i.e. the LXX) to use the word "virgin."
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Online ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,668
Re: New American Bible re-translation
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2011, 12:47:22 AM »
I have just heard that a new translation of "The New American Bible" will be released on Roman Catholic Ash Wednesday.  Amongst other issues, there is a brewing controversy regarding the translation of Isaias 7:14.  The word "almah" has been translated as "young woman" instead of "virgin".  This seems to go against Sacred Tradition (St Simeon the Righteous) and the Septuagint translation.

Any thoughts?
Judaizers.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Robb

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,537
Re: New American Bible re-translation
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2011, 02:45:04 AM »
I understand that the older RC Bibles are still readily (Thankfully) available for public use, but the sad fact remains that the vast majority of Catholics who read the Bible, either in parochial schools or privately will use the latest translation (On a side note, since many RC laity , like OC ones aren't exactly scripture literate on the level of your average Protestants, the damage should be minimal).  I went to RC school as a kid and all they ever gave us to read was the latest version of the NAB.  Almost every Catholic bookstore I've been too stocks almost nothing but NAB's, along with a few DR and the Confraternity version is out of print since the USCCB owns the copyright and hasn't chosen to republish it (To my knowledge).  They probably would preffer that you read the latest NAB which they also own the copyright to.
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert

Offline John Larocque

  • Catholic
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 530
Re: New American Bible re-translation
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2011, 02:57:26 AM »
All of this will just give new impetus to the movement to adopt the RSV-CE/Ignatius Bible with the new Roman Missal. It's a pipedream, for the moment, but I read last year about financial disincentives on the part of the NAB copyright owners, which may drive the bishops to adopt a non-NAB text, much as they nearly jettisoned it in favour of the NRSV a few years ago.

The new NAB OT probably reads better than the 1970 OT, much in the same way the Revised English Bible corrected many of the creativities of the New English Bible. The NRSV's wholesale adoption of gender-neutral language (which seems to have inspired multiple directives in Liturgiam Authenticam) is really a minus for the translation, which is too bad.


Offline Mickey

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,309
Re: New American Bible re-translation
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2011, 09:55:57 AM »
There was obviously a strong enough meaning of "virgin woman" in "almah" for the multiple Jewish scholars who translated the Hebrew into Greek before the time of Christ for official use by Jews in the lands outside of Israel (i.e. the LXX) to use the word "virgin."

Yes. And I am wondering as to why those who were involved with this translation did not take that into consideration?

Offline Punch

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,801
Re: New American Bible re-translation
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2011, 12:59:48 PM »
There was obviously a strong enough meaning of "virgin woman" in "almah" for the multiple Jewish scholars who translated the Hebrew into Greek before the time of Christ for official use by Jews in the lands outside of Israel (i.e. the LXX) to use the word "virgin."

Yes. And I am wondering as to why those who were involved with this translation did not take that into consideration?

The Devil.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Jakub

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,749
Re: New American Bible re-translation
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2011, 02:21:40 PM »
IMO it's not worth purchasing period...
An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.

Offline Robb

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,537
Re: New American Bible re-translation
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2011, 05:32:23 PM »
I always liked the old Confraternity version from the 40's-60's, but it was replaced by the NAB in the 70's.  I really wish that the USCCB would return to the Confraternity edition (At least for the NT) Instead of constantly rewriting the NAB. 
The RSV never really impressed me that much.  I understand that many Protestants were critical of it back in the day due to some errors and omissions of its translators (They also dropped the word Virgin in favor of "young women", I believe).
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert

Offline jordanz

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 203
Re: New American Bible re-translation
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2011, 07:32:28 AM »
Every extraordinary form priest I know who reads the Epistle and Gospel from the altar uses Confraternity.  Those who re-read the English from the pulpit mostly use Confraternity, with some using D-R.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2011, 07:33:03 AM by jordanz »