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« on: March 16, 2011, 12:43:42 AM »

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Just out of curiosity how would a priest or deacon communing the sick transport the Holy Gifts?
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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2011, 12:55:20 AM »

Very carefully.
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« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2011, 01:21:25 AM »

 Grin^
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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2011, 01:23:26 AM »

Very carefully.

When I saw this subject line, that was the only response I could think of myself.  Cheesy
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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2011, 01:26:57 AM »

just to clarify I know in the Catholic church the host is carried in a pyx around the neck. I wasn't sure if the way of transportation was similar
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« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2011, 02:18:52 AM »

just to clarify I know in the Catholic church the host is carried in a pyx around the neck. I wasn't sure if the way of transportation was similar

More or less.  Liturgical supply companies sell things like this:  http://www.religiouschurchsupplies.com/orthodox-hospital-kit.html

I have no idea how priests manage with these around their necks, without the Precious Blood sloshing out of the chalice.  Maybe one here will know how these are used.
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« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2011, 03:00:24 AM »

just to clarify I know in the Catholic church the host is carried in a pyx around the neck. I wasn't sure if the way of transportation was similar

More or less.  Liturgical supply companies sell things like this:  http://www.religiouschurchsupplies.com/orthodox-hospital-kit.html

I have no idea how priests manage with these around their necks, without the Precious Blood sloshing out of the chalice.  Maybe one here will know how these are used.
The host is dipped, so there is no "sloshing."  Same for instance with Presanctified: most of the wine in the chalice is just that, wine.

Btw, I've only seen Orthodox priests transport in their hands, not around their necks.
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« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2011, 03:23:53 AM »

The tiny particles of the consecrated Body of Christ are simply touched, ever so lightly, with the tiniest amount of the Precious Blood.  This is done during the Liturgy before the particles are dried and placed in the Tabernacle on the altar.

The wine which is used at a sick bed is imply that - wine.  This wine is not consecrated.  The small particle is immersed in it.  This has the benefit of softening it because it will usually have dried out rather hard.

The priests I know carry the "pyx" on a chain around the neck.  This container can be tucked in under the front flap of your cassock on your chest.

I have heard that some priests will carry the "pyx" in a briefcase.

In traditional Orthodox countries it is carried as it used to be in Catholic countries... priest wearing stole, with the pyx exposed and hanging on top of it, and a server carrying a candle in a lantern.

The pyx contains a small box containing the Sacred Particles of Christ's Body, a tiny Chalice (2" tall), a tiny spoon, and a tiny box in which there is a glass bottle with a small amount of unconsecrated wine.



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« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2011, 10:31:09 AM »

The tiny particles of the consecrated Body of Christ are simply touched, ever so lightly, with the tiniest amount of the Precious Blood.  This is done during the Liturgy before the particles are dried and placed in the Tabernacle on the altar.

The wine which is used at a sick bed is imply that - wine.  This wine is not consecrated.  The small particle is immersed in it.  This has the benefit of softening it because it will usually have dried out rather hard.

The priests I know carry the "pyx" on a chain around the neck.  This container can be tucked in under the front flap of your cassock on your chest.

I have heard that some priests will carry the "pyx" in a briefcase.

In traditional Orthodox countries it is carried as it used to be in Catholic countries... priest wearing stole, with the pyx exposed and hanging on top of it, and a server carrying a candle in a lantern.

The pyx contains a small box containing the Sacred Particles of Christ's Body, a tiny Chalice (2" tall), a tiny spoon, and a tiny box in which there is a glass bottle with a small amount of unconsecrated wine.





With minor variations from tradition to tradition this remains the case.
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« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2011, 10:31:52 AM »

Thank you Father!
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« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2011, 10:57:05 AM »

just to clarify I know in the Catholic church the host is carried in a pyx around the neck. I wasn't sure if the way of transportation was similar

More or less.  Liturgical supply companies sell things like this:  http://www.religiouschurchsupplies.com/orthodox-hospital-kit.html

I have no idea how priests manage with these around their necks, without the Precious Blood sloshing out of the chalice.  Maybe one here will know how these are used.
The host is dipped, so there is no "sloshing."  Same for instance with Presanctified: most of the wine in the chalice is just that, wine.

Btw, I've only seen Orthodox priests transport in their hands, not around their necks.


I once brought the Holy Gifts to one of our sick priests.  The wine was kept in a little bottle, so there was no chance of it spilling.  If the priest had to drive to the sick person, he would need to either have it hanging from his neck or placed in a safe container, as both hands would be needed for driving. 
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« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2011, 11:10:10 AM »

With someone ringing a little bell sometimes, in front of the priest.
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« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2011, 11:24:07 AM »

With someone ringing a little bell sometimes, in front of the priest.

Ah, I remember that from my pre-Vatican II days.
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« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2011, 09:02:43 PM »

Quite regrettably, the Romans now let the laity not only touch the Eucharist  Angry  but also bring the Host in the blessed pyx to the sick and commune the sick person from a layperson's hands.  The unfathomable decision to let the laity distribute Our Lord in the Roman Rite is one of the reasons I am ever-so-tempted to become Orthodox.  The Orthodox maintain the orthodox tradition that only clergy may touch the sacred gifts and any container.  God bless you for standing firm on this point. 

Once, when I was an altar server at the Tridentine Mass, the Host bounced off of the Communion paten and onto the floor.  I was afraid to touch the Host.  I stood there in utter confusion.  The priest commanded me to pick up the Host and place It on the paten.  I did, and then tried to hold my fingers together as best I could.  I was not offered ablution, so I went off somewhere hidden and licked my fingers after Mass and then washed my hands.  I know that sounds gross and scrupulous, but I didn't want any particle to go unconsumed.  So many of the "Lay communion ministers" are not given ablution.  I find that scandalous.

Because of the great chance for profanation, communion in the hand must stop.  This practice is rightfully a great scandal for the Orthodox.  Another millimeter towards chrismation because of this practice.   

I should have an Ortho-meter to chart my swings between staying Roman and seeking chrismation.
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« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2011, 10:23:26 PM »

I should have an Ortho-meter to chart my swings between staying Roman and seeking chrismation.

A warning: do not lot your religious affiliation hinge on one or a few little pet peeve issues like this, but rather try to get a sense of what you think of the dogmatic traditions as a whole.
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« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2011, 10:38:51 PM »

I should have an Ortho-meter to chart my swings between staying Roman and seeking chrismation.

A warning: do not lot your religious affiliation hinge on one or a few little pet peeve issues like this, but rather try to get a sense of what you think of the dogmatic traditions as a whole.

Right.  The best reason to change is that you want to become Orthodox, rather than not wanting to stay Roman Catholic.
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« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2011, 10:42:02 PM »

As for the thread's actual question: I've seen the pyx transported around the neck, and also transported inside a briefcase or traveling case.  I use the latter, simply because (a) I have two pyx, and the one that could be hung around the next also has a problem with keeping the Body and Blood of Christ inside of it (thankfully I've had no accidents, but it's not a good one), but the other one (which is accident-proof) has no way of hanging; (b) I'm not always stopping at the hospital/nursing home/shut-in first on my journey, and (c) I need my cloth, epitrachelion, book, unction, etc. anyway, so it works best if I transport them together.
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« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2011, 02:13:06 AM »

I should have an Ortho-meter to chart my swings between staying Roman and seeking chrismation.

A warning: do not lot your religious affiliation hinge on one or a few little pet peeve issues like this, but rather try to get a sense of what you think of the dogmatic traditions as a whole.

Right.  The best reason to change is that you want to become Orthodox, rather than not wanting to stay Roman Catholic.

You are both quite right.  Not the time for bad humor, then.  The foot has been removed from mouth (dry shoe leather, ugh).
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« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2011, 02:15:45 AM »

Jordanz, I would advise prayer overall but if the liturgical crisis is the only thing you disagree with in the RCC I  would suggest finding a Latin Mass or Anglican use parish. 
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« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2011, 02:37:13 AM »

Jordanz, I would advise prayer overall but if the liturgical crisis is the only thing you disagree with in the RCC I  would suggest finding a Latin Mass or Anglican use parish. 

I worship at the Latin Mass exclusively unless I can't find one that is in union with Rome.  When that is the case I worship at a Byzantine Catholic DL. No Anglican Use in my part of the world.  If I found an Anglican Use parish, I would go there over the ByzCath DL out of integrity. Hopefully there will be more Anglican Use parishes in North America now that the Anglican Ordinariate is in force.

I "converted" to being a Tridentine Catholic ever since I got a driver's license as a teen and could drive myself anywhere on Sunday.  Never ever looked back.

You are quite right, I should not become Orthodox, even though the possibility is always a thought in my mind.  It is tempting to just leave Rome because of the gross abuses I've seen in the Novus Ordo.  However, since i am very Roman, I should just avoid the Novus Ordo rather than jump ship.  That is the option with more integrity.  I just pray that Rome snaps out of this liturgical nightmare sooner than later. 
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« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2011, 03:10:36 AM »

Because of the great chance for profanation, communion in the hand must stop.  This practice is rightfully a great scandal for the Orthodox.  Another millimeter towards chrismation because of this practice.    

I should have an Ortho-meter to chart my swings between staying Roman and seeking chrismation.

Actually, communion in the hand is an ancient practice, that was mostly put to an end because of the very kind of abuses that you noted (people running off with Eucharist to put in talismans and so forth).  It can still be seen among Orthodox on the extremely rare occasions when the Divine Liturgy of St. James is celebrated.  The Body and Blood are given separately, with the Blood in the chalice.  Of course, Orthodox priests are always expected to guard the Eucharist against desecration, and this practice is undertaken with due care.

I absolutely think you should become Orthodox, but it should not be because you don't like what's happening in Roman Catholicism.
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« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2011, 02:25:08 PM »

Quite regrettably, the Romans now let the laity not only touch the Eucharist  Angry  but also bring the Host in the blessed pyx to the sick and commune the sick person from a layperson's hands.  The unfathomable decision to let the laity distribute Our Lord in the Roman Rite is one of the reasons I am ever-so-tempted to become Orthodox.  The Orthodox maintain the orthodox tradition that only clergy may touch the sacred gifts and any container.  God bless you for standing firm on this point. 

Once, when I was an altar server at the Tridentine Mass, the Host bounced off of the Communion paten and onto the floor.  I was afraid to touch the Host.  I stood there in utter confusion.  The priest commanded me to pick up the Host and place It on the paten.  I did, and then tried to hold my fingers together as best I could.  I was not offered ablution, so I went off somewhere hidden and licked my fingers after Mass and then washed my hands.  I know that sounds gross and scrupulous, but I didn't want any particle to go unconsumed.  So many of the "Lay communion ministers" are not given ablution.  I find that scandalous.

Because of the great chance for profanation, communion in the hand must stop.  This practice is rightfully a great scandal for the Orthodox.  Another millimeter towards chrismation because of this practice.   

I should have an Ortho-meter to chart my swings between staying Roman and seeking chrismation.

I like my hands after liturgy when I've received antidoron, the blessed bread, to take care of all the crumbs.
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« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2011, 02:38:50 PM »

I think you mean Lick
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« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2011, 02:44:37 PM »

It can still be seen among Orthodox on the extremely rare occasions when the Divine Liturgy of St. James is celebrated.  The Body and Blood are given separately, with the Blood in the chalice.

It's not placed on the communicant's tongue by the Priest's hand like I've seen in the Coptic and Armenian rites?
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« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2011, 02:48:24 PM »

It can still be seen among Orthodox on the extremely rare occasions when the Divine Liturgy of St. James is celebrated.  The Body and Blood are given separately, with the Blood in the chalice.

It's not placed on the communicant's tongue by the Priest's hand like I've seen in the Coptic and Armenian rites?

The Council In Trullo, IIRC, call for all laity to receive the Eucharist in the hand like the priests.
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« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2011, 02:53:09 PM »

It can still be seen among Orthodox on the extremely rare occasions when the Divine Liturgy of St. James is celebrated.  The Body and Blood are given separately, with the Blood in the chalice.

It's not placed on the communicant's tongue by the Priest's hand like I've seen in the Coptic and Armenian rites?

The Council In Trullo, IIRC, call for all laity to receive the Eucharist in the hand like the priests.

Hmmmm. OK.

Does this also mean that the DL of Saint James was still the standard in Constantinople at that time?
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« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2011, 03:33:01 PM »

It can still be seen among Orthodox on the extremely rare occasions when the Divine Liturgy of St. James is celebrated.  The Body and Blood are given separately, with the Blood in the chalice.

It's not placed on the communicant's tongue by the Priest's hand like I've seen in the Coptic and Armenian rites?

The Council In Trullo, IIRC, call for all laity to receive the Eucharist in the hand like the priests.

Hmmmm. OK.

Does this also mean that the DL of Saint James was still the standard in Constantinople at that time?

No, it means communion in the hand used to be done there.  It wasn't exclusive to the Liturgy of St. James.  The use of spoons began around the year 800, if I'm not mistaken.
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« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2011, 03:42:00 PM »

What happens if some does spill??
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« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2011, 05:00:03 PM »

It can still be seen among Orthodox on the extremely rare occasions when the Divine Liturgy of St. James is celebrated.  The Body and Blood are given separately, with the Blood in the chalice.

It's not placed on the communicant's tongue by the Priest's hand like I've seen in the Coptic and Armenian rites?

The Council In Trullo, IIRC, call for all laity to receive the Eucharist in the hand like the priests.

Hmmmm. OK.

Does this also mean that the DL of Saint James was still the standard in Constantinople at that time?

No, it means communion in the hand used to be done there.  It wasn't exclusive to the Liturgy of St. James.  The use of spoons began around the year 800, if I'm not mistaken.

So, to clarify, the ancient Byzantine practice is for the Priest to give the fraction of the Body, in the hand, to the communicant and then to hold the chalice to their lips?

Is there anything to indicate that this was originally the practice in other rites as well?
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« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2011, 06:12:15 PM »

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Just out of curiosity how would a priest or deacon communing the sick transport the Holy Gifts?

In an Angel Buggy?
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