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Author Topic: My logical conundrum  (Read 443 times) Average Rating: 0
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NightOwl
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« on: September 02, 2012, 12:30:02 AM »

So... at this point, only atheism and Orthodoxy make any sense to me. Given that...

If I'm not religious: Humanity is dominated by primitive urges, petty, and ultimately meaningless. I am a social outcast and struggle to attach artificial meaning to my life.

If I'm religious: Humanity is dominated by the passions, petty, and in deep peril of eternal damnation. I am a social outcast and a sinner, and struggle with enduring doubts the rest of my life.

(Yes, I'm mostly a pessimist by nature. However, I've approached this as rationally and impartially as possible).
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 12:42:59 AM by NightOwl » Logged
Justin Kissel
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« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2012, 12:46:08 AM »

So... at this point, only atheism and Orthodoxy make any sense to me. Given that...

Fwiw, (if you don't recall/know) I'm approaching this as someone who has bounced between unbelief and belief the last half dozen years. So I feel your pain.

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If I'm not religious: Humanity is dominated by primitive urges, petty, and ultimately meaningless. I am a social outcast and struggle to attach artificial meaning to my life.

If I'm religious: Humanity is dominated by the passions, petty, and in deep peril of eternal damnation. I am a social outcast and a sinner, and struggle with enduring doubts the rest of my life.

I similarly feel torn, especially because for me, I feel like if I'm "going to do the religion thing" then I've got to do it full force, 100%, the whole way. If I'm going to do it, I don't wanna half a** it. Unfortunately I don't have any profound or magic words for you to sway you towards Orthodoxy. I just keep getting drawn back. Perhaps you do as well? Perhaps, perhaps not. I've found that my doubts have lessened over the years, fwiw... though a lot of that was deciding that a lot of my doubts just weren't the theological/practical mountains I wanted/thought them to be. Or so I tell myself. Now, when I read about demons influencing us so we're tempted, do I just swallow it hook, line and sinker? No. I still struggle with such things. Perhaps I'm too modern. So what are we to do? I don't know, except try.

And do. Doing is important in Orthodoxy. Not just thinking, but actually doing. Not figuring things out by thinking them through, but experiencing life. Is that enough? I don't know. Conversion of heart is what is needed, conversion daily, if Orthodoxy is correct. But like I said, nothing profound here. I guess all I'm trying to do is say, yeah, other people are also struggling along the same lines (I think?) Keep going. The only failure is in throwing your hands up in the air and giving up, IMO. If we are sincere and honest and open, I think we'll come out ok in the end. Even if I don't claim to know what that end will be.

But them I might be too much of an optimist!  Cheesy

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(Yes, I'm mostly a pessimist by nature.)

If you must be a pessimist, don't think of the glass as half empty, but rather at least imagine it as having been half drunk by you already. At least get something out of the deal! angel
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NightOwl
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« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2012, 01:12:07 AM »

Thanks for the input, Asteriktos. It's weird because on the one hand I also feel I have to be spiritually perfect and save my own soul as well as the souls of family/friends/strangers. On the other hand the reality is so radically different and my other desires so conflicting that I don't know whether to laugh or cry. It's like dreaming of building skyscrapers when I have monumentous difficulty building a one room shack...
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 01:16:54 AM by NightOwl » Logged
truthseeker32
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« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2012, 05:36:08 PM »

What about Hinduism or Deism?
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NightOwl
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« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2012, 07:50:47 PM »

No.

Anyway, I feel better just having posted this. I listened to some Fr Hopko and plan on getting "Path to Sanity" by Dee Pennock per his recommendation on one of his podcasts.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 07:53:44 PM by NightOwl » Logged
truthseeker32
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« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2012, 08:12:18 PM »

No.

Anyway, I feel better just having posted this. I listened to some Fr Hopko and plan on getting "Path to Sanity" by Dee Pennock per his recommendation on one of his podcasts.
I was kind of joking, kind of serious. I suppose it might be difficult for me to relate to your situation since I was able to believe in God prior to considering Orthodoxy. As a result, if for some reason I eventually decide Orthodoxy isn't right for me then I will go back to believing in God, but not being particularly religious.

I am glad you feel better after listening to Fr. Hopko.
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orthonorm
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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2012, 08:38:47 PM »

(Yes, I'm mostly a pessimist by nature. However, I've approached this as rationally and impartially as possible).

Just a note as I watch water run into my apartment, you can approach "pessimism" in a "reasoned" manner:



Contra Leibniz he thought he proved we live in the worst of all possible worlds.

And frankly I don't see how the ontological argument as most understand it doesn't apply to the worst. Seems like the worst thing would have to exist in order for it to be the worst thing.

Thinking about dealing with this mess is not as bad as dealing with it.

It's always worse than you think. Don't let them tell you otherwise.
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Aindriú
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« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2012, 11:15:15 PM »

(Yes, I'm mostly a pessimist by nature. However, I've approached this as rationally and impartially as possible).

Just a note as I watch water run into my apartment, you can approach "pessimism" in a "reasoned" manner:



Contra Leibniz he thought he proved we live in the worst of all possible worlds.

And frankly I don't see how the ontological argument as most understand it doesn't apply to the worst. Seems like the worst thing would have to exist in order for it to be the worst thing.

Thinking about dealing with this mess is not as bad as dealing with it.

It's always worse than you think. Don't let them tell you otherwise.

I need to share a drink with you.
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I'm going to need this.
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