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yochanan
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« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2010, 10:23:43 AM »

But what does all this talk about how agnostics view science have to do with how Orthodox Christianity views science?

I'm just trying to prove that Orthodox Christians can be good scientists too.

And, oh yeah, I forgot one very important Orthodox scientist: Dmitri Mendeleev; you know... That guy who made the Periodic Table of Elements.

You know, it's kind of dangerous to assume that if a person was Russian, he was an Orthodox Christian. Vladimir Ilyich Lenin was also baptized Orthodox, and even went to Divine Liturgies until he was 16 or so. And Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili (Stalin) was not only a baptized Orthodox but also a student of an Orthodox seminary.Smiley

But that's what Wikipedia said! And it couldn't be wrong.  Wink

Anyway, everything everyone has been posting here (especially Nebelpfade) has been discouraging me to pursue a career of Computer Science something I really am passionate about.  Sad

Hmmm.. Norbert Wiener (inventor of cybernetics) was a Jew.. at least -- an observing one at least.
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« Reply #46 on: March 17, 2010, 10:27:46 AM »




Tesla was, of course, baptized Orthodox,

I didn't know that! Very interesting.

Quote
but I can't imagine him going to church, strange and solitary man as he was.

He was a member of "The Five", injected with pure Vampire blood, which awakened his dormant Vampire DNA...oh wait, that's from the TV series Sanctuary...so might not be his actual history, oops! Wink



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« Reply #47 on: March 17, 2010, 11:11:31 AM »

But what does all this talk about how agnostics view science have to do with how Orthodox Christianity views science?

I'm just trying to prove that Orthodox Christians can be good scientists too.

And, oh yeah, I forgot one very important Orthodox scientist: Dmitri Mendeleev; you know... That guy who made the Periodic Table of Elements.

You know, it's kind of dangerous to assume that if a person was Russian, he was an Orthodox Christian. Vladimir Ilyich Lenin was also baptized Orthodox, and even went to Divine Liturgies until he was 16 or so. And Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili (Stalin) was not only a baptized Orthodox but also a student of an Orthodox seminary.Smiley

But that's what Wikipedia said! And it couldn't be wrong.  Wink

Anyway, everything everyone has been posting here (especially Nebelpfade) has been discouraging me to pursue a career of Computer Science something I really am passionate about.  Sad

Hmmm.. Norbert Wiener (inventor of cybernetics) was a Jew.. at least -- an observing one at least.

Wel, I happen to know things about Lenin and Stalin not from the Wikipedia but from a lot of other sources - I was born and raised in the USSR.

And I certainly did not and do not discourage you from a career in science, being myself a biologist and a university biology teacher. Smiley
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yochanan
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« Reply #48 on: March 17, 2010, 11:22:09 AM »

But what does all this talk about how agnostics view science have to do with how Orthodox Christianity views science?

I'm just trying to prove that Orthodox Christians can be good scientists too.

And, oh yeah, I forgot one very important Orthodox scientist: Dmitri Mendeleev; you know... That guy who made the Periodic Table of Elements.

You know, it's kind of dangerous to assume that if a person was Russian, he was an Orthodox Christian. Vladimir Ilyich Lenin was also baptized Orthodox, and even went to Divine Liturgies until he was 16 or so. And Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili (Stalin) was not only a baptized Orthodox but also a student of an Orthodox seminary.Smiley

But that's what Wikipedia said! And it couldn't be wrong.  Wink

Anyway, everything everyone has been posting here (especially Nebelpfade) has been discouraging me to pursue a career of Computer Science something I really am passionate about.  Sad

Hmmm.. Norbert Wiener (inventor of cybernetics) was a Jew.. at least -- an observing one at least.

Wel, I happen to know things about Lenin and Stalin not from the Wikipedia but from a lot of other sources - I was born and raised in the USSR.

And I certainly did not and do not discourage you from a career in science, being myself a biologist and a university biology teacher. Smiley

Oh.  Smiley Nice. Let's pray that we don't become atheists then  Wink
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« Reply #49 on: March 17, 2010, 11:26:38 AM »


Anyway, everything everyone has been posting here (especially Nebelpfade) has been discouraging me to pursue a career of Computer Science something I really am passionate about.  Sad

Don't get discouraged! If you are passionate about science, then go and do it. Don't let the fact that some people on a message board, or some book you read said you cannot be Orthodox and a scientist convince you that it is so. I used to have a deep passion for science, and I wanted to be a paleontologist, but my love for science was beaten out of me by the public school system (which I later found out my district was greatly influenced by Fundamentalist Protestantism to remove science (the interesting stuff) from the class rooms. Well it worked, and I never went down that path, and part of me regrets to this day. (though it was not really a fault of mine) I probably wasn't bright enough to do the science anyways, but there is no reason you're not, and no reason you should NOT become a scientist.

I also think you might be misreading a few posts here. I don't think everyone was trying to discourage you, only point out some false assumptions about Einstein, and some others. Too many religious folk repeat these myths about Einstein and Hawking being traditional styled believers in God. And for many people that gets to be a bit annoying because it's simply not true.  

I'm familiar enough with Heorhij's posts at least to know he wouldn't try to discourage you from this path I can't say for others, but I think most were just trying to "debunk" certain myths about people. Of course these myths go in both directions as plenty of atheists proudly assert that Carl Sagan was an atheist, when in fact he was not. His widow for the last 5 years have been going around trying to "debunk" that myth as well, much to the anguish of many proud atheists who would claim Sagan as one of their own. (as previously said he was a classic agnostic)

There are plenty of scientists who are religious, traditionally religious, even Orthodox Christians. Ken Miller is a traditional Catholic and is a fantastic scientist. Don't be discouraged. One can be a scientist and keep their faith. The trick is one has to DO the science and use the scientific method which many religious people simply are not willing to do. But I personally know a hydro-biologist who is Orthodox, and he's kept his faith without a problem. Science is a wonderful endeavor, and if you have the passion for it, the love for it, and the ability to do it, then go do it. God gave us our brains, and never intended us to shut them off. Science is beautiful, and the knowledge we have of our world through science has given us a far grander picture of the cosmos then anyone ever imagined. For some this convinces them there is not God, for others it strengthens their faith. Many scientists are non-theists, agnostics or atheists, but many are theists, or Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, etc... That's what is great about science. Anyone willing to go do the science can do it. And it matters not if they are black, white, male, female, religious or non-religious. If they are willing to go do the work, and do it well, they can do it. You can to, and keep your faith as well.

Don't let religion, or someones interpretation of religion keep you from something you love doing. That would be horrible, and I don't think anyone here intended that at all.
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yochanan
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« Reply #50 on: March 17, 2010, 11:55:39 AM »


Anyway, everything everyone has been posting here (especially Nebelpfade) has been discouraging me to pursue a career of Computer Science something I really am passionate about.  Sad

Don't get discouraged! If you are passionate about science, then go and do it. Don't let the fact that some people on a message board, or some book you read said you cannot be Orthodox and a scientist convince you that it is so. I used to have a deep passion for science, and I wanted to be a paleontologist, but my love for science was beaten out of me by the public school system (which I later found out my district was greatly influenced by Fundamentalist Protestantism to remove science (the interesting stuff) from the class rooms. Well it worked, and I never went down that path, and part of me regrets to this day. (though it was not really a fault of mine) I probably wasn't bright enough to do the science anyways, but there is no reason you're not, and no reason you should NOT become a scientist.

I also think you might be misreading a few posts here. I don't think everyone was trying to discourage you, only point out some false assumptions about Einstein, and some others. Too many religious folk repeat these myths about Einstein and Hawking being traditional styled believers in God. And for many people that gets to be a bit annoying because it's simply not true.  

I'm familiar enough with Heorhij's posts at least to know he wouldn't try to discourage you from this path I can't say for others, but I think most were just trying to "debunk" certain myths about people. Of course these myths go in both directions as plenty of atheists proudly assert that Carl Sagan was an atheist, when in fact he was not. His widow for the last 5 years have been going around trying to "debunk" that myth as well, much to the anguish of many proud atheists who would claim Sagan as one of their own. (as previously said he was a classic agnostic)

There are plenty of scientists who are religious, traditionally religious, even Orthodox Christians. Ken Miller is a traditional Catholic and is a fantastic scientist. Don't be discouraged. One can be a scientist and keep their faith. The trick is one has to DO the science and use the scientific method which many religious people simply are not willing to do. But I personally know a hydro-biologist who is Orthodox, and he's kept his faith without a problem. Science is a wonderful endeavor, and if you have the passion for it, the love for it, and the ability to do it, then go do it. God gave us our brains, and never intended us to shut them off. Science is beautiful, and the knowledge we have of our world through science has given us a far grander picture of the cosmos then anyone ever imagined. For some this convinces them there is not God, for others it strengthens their faith. Many scientists are non-theists, agnostics or atheists, but many are theists, or Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, etc... That's what is great about science. Anyone willing to go do the science can do it. And it matters not if they are black, white, male, female, religious or non-religious. If they are willing to go do the work, and do it well, they can do it. You can to, and keep your faith as well.

Don't let religion, or someones interpretation of religion keep you from something you love doing. That would be horrible, and I don't think anyone here intended that at all.


Thanks for the very encouraging words NorthernPines Smiley
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« Reply #51 on: March 17, 2010, 12:08:52 PM »

Anyway, everything everyone has been posting here (especially Nebelpfade) has been discouraging me to pursue a career of Computer Science something I really am passionate about.  Sad
Ah, Computer Science.  The truest and most beautiful form of science imaginable.  No bias of course.  laugh

Don't be discouraged.  It just happens that within the Western World, more and more people are becoming non-believers or adhering to their faith for cultural reasons alone.  The scientific community merely mirrors this trend (we are people too laugh), with a slight skew due to the slightly higher number of non-believers in academia.  Think of a hobby or sport you are passionate about, within the ranks of their elite, there are likely non-believers as well.  Would you abandon your hobbies as well?  As long as you don't allow your faith to muddle up your science, you will do fine.  I.e.:  God is not a measurable quantity to be mentioned on a report (yes, I have unfortunately seen this before).

I'm familiar enough with Heorhij's posts at least to know he wouldn't try to discourage you from this path I can't say for others, but I think most were just trying to "debunk" certain myths about people. Of course these myths go in both directions as plenty of atheists proudly assert that Carl Sagan was an atheist, when in fact he was not. His widow for the last 5 years have been going around trying to "debunk" that myth as well, much to the anguish of many proud atheists who would claim Sagan as one of their own. (as previously said he was a classic agnostic)

He even said something along the lines as, atheists must know a lot more than himself to say with 100% confidence that there are no and have never been any supernatural elements at work.
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« Reply #52 on: March 17, 2010, 01:06:52 PM »

But what does all this talk about how agnostics view science have to do with how Orthodox Christianity views science?

I'm just trying to prove that Orthodox Christians can be good scientists too.

And, oh yeah, I forgot one very important Orthodox scientist: Dmitri Mendeleev; you know... That guy who made the Periodic Table of Elements.

You know, it's kind of dangerous to assume that if a person was Russian, he was an Orthodox Christian. Vladimir Ilyich Lenin was also baptized Orthodox, and even went to Divine Liturgies until he was 16 or so. And Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili (Stalin) was not only a baptized Orthodox but also a student of an Orthodox seminary.Smiley

But that's what Wikipedia said! And it couldn't be wrong.  Wink

Anyway, everything everyone has been posting here (especially Nebelpfade) has been discouraging me to pursue a career of Computer Science something I really am passionate about.  Sad

Hmmm.. Norbert Wiener (inventor of cybernetics) was a Jew.. at least -- an observing one at least.

Life is a struggle, and perseverance through suffering is an aspect of Orthodoxy. And so, don't give up. I know alot of conservative protestant christians who were computer science majors.....and most of them did fine. And if they can do it......then you can do it. (well, they had community)

Yes, it is true that Isaac Newton was a Uniterian, but it is also true that he was deeply religious, and so, one can be deeply religious and into science. There are alot of modern christians of different stripes....Roman Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox......that are both.

Some are more religious than others, while some less so. But don't give up.....keep fighting....for that is how christians in highschool and college keep their faith in tact.....in North America.


You gotta fight! But never fight alone! Find an OCF chapter at your school.....and if you don't have one form one. You may not last if you fight all alone. But you will last if you fight in community.


The reason why I made it out of highschool and college with my faith and morals in tact was because of community. I was a protestant then....and so....I had alot of different pan-protestant groups/ ministries that helped me survive. So don't worry about it. You will survive if you find community. People your age or around your age group........for it's easy to break one, but it's hard....very very hard for Atheistic and Agnostic teachers to break a group of young christian rebels!


You will survive if you find community.


What alot of modern atheists and agnostics don't know is that their existence depends on modern secularism. They assume that secularism will survive forever, but it won't. Modern secularism is depended on America, and as long as America is healthy and is doing fine......then secularism will survive. But when America falls. Secularism will fall with it......and thus modern atheists, Agnostics......etc. will have nothing to support it. It's resources willbe gone, and so, don't worry for Christianity will survive....long after this age is dead and gone in history.


One of the reasons why I want Orthodoxy in Space, is because I want to kill the silly idea that the future is Atheistic. If Orthodox Christians were the first to land on Mars, and if we said prayers all the way there and back....as well as saying prayers on the planet Mars itself.......then that would go a long way in killing the dreams of Atheists and Agnostics.....about what they think the future will be........should be.


The life in America....as well as the western world.....that we live now is artificial. It is a life that tries to avoid pain and suffering. A life that tries to make everything feel good and easy. But America won't have the funds to keep up this fake existence. It will collapse. And when it does.....American Atheism and Agnosticism will have a hard time surviving.

Religion will re-gain ground for the otherside won't have the funds to fight it.






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« Reply #53 on: March 17, 2010, 01:26:08 PM »

I don't think anyone mentioned Theodosius Grygorovych Dobzhansky (d. 1969), who quipped "nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution".
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« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2010, 02:21:34 PM »

But what does all this talk about how agnostics view science have to do with how Orthodox Christianity views science?

Cut Nebelpfade some slack- it's the only kind of discussion that interests him on this forum.
Yes, that's my fear. Wink
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« Reply #55 on: March 17, 2010, 02:23:06 PM »

But what does all this talk about how agnostics view science have to do with how Orthodox Christianity views science?

I'm just trying to prove that Orthodox Christians can be good scientists too.
Yes, I understand that's what you're doing. Wink  My words were directed more to someone else.
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« Reply #56 on: March 17, 2010, 02:27:19 PM »

Anyway, everything everyone has been posting here (especially Nebelpfade) has been discouraging me to pursue a career of Computer Science something I really am passionate about.  Sad
I wouldn't let anyone discourage you from a career in computer science.  I'm currently pursuing a career in computer software engineering, which is a specific subfield of computer science.
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« Reply #57 on: March 17, 2010, 04:30:20 PM »

And, oh yeah, I forgot one very important Orthodox scientist: Dmitri Mendeleev; you know... That guy who made the Periodic Table of Elements.

What is more important he found the most adequate concentration of alcohol in vodka so that it does not burn and does not taste wateryly.
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« Reply #58 on: March 17, 2010, 04:45:27 PM »

And, oh yeah, I forgot one very important Orthodox scientist: Dmitri Mendeleev; you know... That guy who made the Periodic Table of Elements.

What is more important he found the most adequate concentration of alcohol in vodka so that it does not burns and does not taste wateryly.

Well, I think that concentration had already been known "empirically" - but it is true that the title of Dmitriy Ivanovich Mendeleev's doctoral thesis was, "A Meditation Over Mixing Alcohol With Water."  laugh
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« Reply #59 on: March 18, 2010, 08:11:11 AM »

And, oh yeah, I forgot one very important Orthodox scientist: Dmitri Mendeleev; you know... That guy who made the Periodic Table of Elements.

What is more important he found the most adequate concentration of alcohol in vodka so that it does not burns and does not taste wateryly.

Well, I think that concentration had already been known "empirically" - but it is true that the title of Dmitriy Ivanovich Mendeleev's doctoral thesis was, "A Meditation Over Mixing Alcohol With Water."  laugh

Mixing Alcohol With Water? Doesn't that sound familiar?  Wink

I have rumors: he was secretly a priest doing DL for himself because he doesn't like to go to Church.  Grin
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« Reply #60 on: March 18, 2010, 08:12:40 AM »

Anyway, everything everyone has been posting here (especially Nebelpfade) has been discouraging me to pursue a career of Computer Science something I really am passionate about.  Sad
I wouldn't let anyone discourage you from a career in computer science.  I'm currently pursuing a career in computer software engineering, which is a specific subfield of computer science.

Oh really? Bet you can help me with homework huh?  Wink Hehe. What your language?
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« Reply #61 on: March 18, 2010, 08:15:18 AM »

But what does all this talk about how agnostics view science have to do with how Orthodox Christianity views science?

I'm just trying to prove that Orthodox Christians can be good scientists too.

And, oh yeah, I forgot one very important Orthodox scientist: Dmitri Mendeleev; you know... That guy who made the Periodic Table of Elements.

You know, it's kind of dangerous to assume that if a person was Russian, he was an Orthodox Christian. Vladimir Ilyich Lenin was also baptized Orthodox, and even went to Divine Liturgies until he was 16 or so. And Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili (Stalin) was not only a baptized Orthodox but also a student of an Orthodox seminary.Smiley

But that's what Wikipedia said! And it couldn't be wrong.  Wink

Anyway, everything everyone has been posting here (especially Nebelpfade) has been discouraging me to pursue a career of Computer Science something I really am passionate about.  Sad

Hmmm.. Norbert Wiener (inventor of cybernetics) was a Jew.. at least -- an observing one at least.

Life is a struggle, and perseverance through suffering is an aspect of Orthodoxy. And so, don't give up. I know alot of conservative protestant christians who were computer science majors.....and most of them did fine. And if they can do it......then you can do it. (well, they had community)

Yes, it is true that Isaac Newton was a Uniterian, but it is also true that he was deeply religious, and so, one can be deeply religious and into science. There are alot of modern christians of different stripes....Roman Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox......that are both.

Some are more religious than others, while some less so. But don't give up.....keep fighting....for that is how christians in highschool and college keep their faith in tact.....in North America.


You gotta fight! But never fight alone! Find an OCF chapter at your school.....and if you don't have one form one. You may not last if you fight all alone. But you will last if you fight in community.


The reason why I made it out of highschool and college with my faith and morals in tact was because of community. I was a protestant then....and so....I had alot of different pan-protestant groups/ ministries that helped me survive. So don't worry about it. You will survive if you find community. People your age or around your age group........for it's easy to break one, but it's hard....very very hard for Atheistic and Agnostic teachers to break a group of young christian rebels!


You will survive if you find community.


What alot of modern atheists and agnostics don't know is that their existence depends on modern secularism. They assume that secularism will survive forever, but it won't. Modern secularism is depended on America, and as long as America is healthy and is doing fine......then secularism will survive. But when America falls. Secularism will fall with it......and thus modern atheists, Agnostics......etc. will have nothing to support it. It's resources willbe gone, and so, don't worry for Christianity will survive....long after this age is dead and gone in history.


One of the reasons why I want Orthodoxy in Space, is because I want to kill the silly idea that the future is Atheistic. If Orthodox Christians were the first to land on Mars, and if we said prayers all the way there and back....as well as saying prayers on the planet Mars itself.......then that would go a long way in killing the dreams of Atheists and Agnostics.....about what they think the future will be........should be.


The life in America....as well as the western world.....that we live now is artificial. It is a life that tries to avoid pain and suffering. A life that tries to make everything feel good and easy. But America won't have the funds to keep up this fake existence. It will collapse. And when it does.....American Atheism and Agnosticism will have a hard time surviving.

Religion will re-gain ground for the otherside won't have the funds to fight it.






ICXC NIKA

Sadly, there isn't a nearby Orthodox community here in our university -- it's still a city away. And they have a different dialect there.

Hmmm.. A thought to ponder: could I join non-denominational Christian groups here in campus? Does Holy Mother Church allow that?

P.S. I'm taking up college in a Protestant University. And I go to a Catholic Church for Mass on Sundays -- but I also read the Typika.  Grin
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« Reply #62 on: March 18, 2010, 11:10:05 AM »

Anyway, everything everyone has been posting here (especially Nebelpfade) has been discouraging me to pursue a career of Computer Science something I really am passionate about.  Sad
I wouldn't let anyone discourage you from a career in computer science.  I'm currently pursuing a career in computer software engineering, which is a specific subfield of computer science.

Oh really? Bet you can help me with homework huh?  Wink Hehe. What your language?

If you need any help with the theoretical elements (automata, Turing machines, proofs, etc), I can help you out.  But when it comes to programming... yeah... Tongue  I know fragments of C, Java, Lisp, Prolog, etc.

But what does all this talk about how agnostics view science have to do with how Orthodox Christianity views science?

Cut Nebelpfade some slack- it's the only kind of discussion that interests him on this forum.
Yes, that's my fear. Wink

What can I say, it is a nice change of pace from the RC-Ortho section. Wink
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« Reply #63 on: March 18, 2010, 11:24:05 AM »

Anyway, everything everyone has been posting here (especially Nebelpfade) has been discouraging me to pursue a career of Computer Science something I really am passionate about.  Sad
I wouldn't let anyone discourage you from a career in computer science.  I'm currently pursuing a career in computer software engineering, which is a specific subfield of computer science.

Oh really? Bet you can help me with homework huh?  Wink Hehe. What your language?

If you need any help with the theoretical elements (automata, Turing machines, proofs, etc), I can help you out.  But when it comes to programming... yeah... Tongue  I know fragments of C, Java, Lisp, Prolog, etc.

But what does all this talk about how agnostics view science have to do with how Orthodox Christianity views science?

Cut Nebelpfade some slack- it's the only kind of discussion that interests him on this forum.
Yes, that's my fear. Wink

What can I say, it is a nice change of pace from the RC-Ortho section. Wink

Nice!  Grin

I guess this is the time when an Orthodox Christian says:

"Save, O Lord, and have mercy on our benefactors, who have mercy on us and feed us, and out of anxiety by giving us those things in which we stand of need, and entrust us, unworthy as we are, to pray for them; and give them Thy grace, and grant them all their requests which lead to salvation, and the attainment of eternal joy."

Lord, have mercy.

Heard of Octave?
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« Reply #64 on: March 18, 2010, 01:41:03 PM »

Anyway, everything everyone has been posting here (especially Nebelpfade) has been discouraging me to pursue a career of Computer Science something I really am passionate about.  Sad
I wouldn't let anyone discourage you from a career in computer science.  I'm currently pursuing a career in computer software engineering, which is a specific subfield of computer science.

Oh really? Bet you can help me with homework huh?  Wink Hehe. What your language?
C, C++, C#, .NET Framework

C# and Java are about 90% the same language, so if you have a question about the Java language (not the J2EE programming platform), I may be able to answer it from my knowledge of C#.

I'm currently pursuing Microsoft Certified Professional Developer certification as an enterprise application developer.
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« Reply #65 on: March 18, 2010, 04:24:35 PM »

Heard of Octave?

I've used it a little, but never for for any complex applications.  Mostly just to see how it compares to MATLAB.  As an open source project, I'm quite impressed with it.  To really take MATLAB head-on though, they need to focus on creating a decent standard graphical environment.
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« Reply #66 on: March 18, 2010, 08:39:07 PM »

Anyway, everything everyone has been posting here (especially Nebelpfade) has been discouraging me to pursue a career of Computer Science something I really am passionate about.  Sad
I wouldn't let anyone discourage you from a career in computer science.  I'm currently pursuing a career in computer software engineering, which is a specific subfield of computer science.

Oh really? Bet you can help me with homework huh?  Wink Hehe. What your language?
C, C++, C#, .NET Framework

C# and Java are about 90% the same language, so if you have a question about the Java language (not the J2EE programming platform), I may be able to answer it from my knowledge of C#.

I'm currently pursuing Microsoft Certified Professional Developer certification as an enterprise application developer.

Quote
I'm currently pursuing Microsoft Certified Professional Developer certification as an enterprise application developer.
--- WOW! I hope I can be like you someday. Shocked -- hope I pass.

Nice! I will really need your help then!

I'm graduating on 2013 -- provided I don't fail. I hope you can help me in not failing. I heard that ComSci's a very hard course.   Sad But I am passionate about it -- well as Einstein said: "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" -- I have to perspire a lot then.

I'm taking up Digital Design and Intermediate programming next sem -- we're using C++ here in our university, don't know why our teachers don't like C. Must be old stuff for them eh?

Heard of Octave?

I've used it a little, but never for for any complex applications.  Mostly just to see how it compares to MATLAB.  As an open source project, I'm quite impressed with it.  To really take MATLAB head-on though, they need to focus on creating a decent standard graphical environment.

Just really curious about it. It's C-based right? I really don't know advanced stuff yet -- I'm just really so enthusiastic -- I hope curiosity doesn't kill the cat.  Grin
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« Reply #67 on: March 18, 2010, 09:27:21 PM »

I'm graduating on 2013 -- provided I don't fail. I hope you can help me in not failing. I heard that ComSci's a very hard course.   Sad But I am passionate about it -- well as Einstein said: "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" -- I have to perspire a lot then.
Computer Science is an incredibly diverse subject field, so it is key to not get too discouraged if you find certain aspects of it quite challenging.  For example, my focus is theoretical computer science, so I have always excelled in theory-heavy courses (lately I have been really focused on the study of formal languages, and syntactic correctness).  Yet, when it comes to more application based courses, my marks would always dip a bit.  Applied programming is an art-form, and I just don't quite have the eye for it.   Tongue

Computer Science tends to have a fairly heavy course load, so it is easy to find yourself behind if you let things slide.  Try and stay on top of your subjects, and you should do fine.  Spending late nights in a lab is a common occurrence.  laugh  A strong discrete mathematics and logic background will help out greatly.

Quote
I'm taking up Digital Design and Intermediate programming next sem -- we're using C++ here in our university, don't know why our teachers don't like C. Must be old stuff for them eh?
The biggest factor is usually a) the strong suit of the faculty, and b) what language brings in funding.  Usually a C, C++, C# or Java is taught for general programming courses, since they are quite similar and help build a general programming foundation.  AI is another field you will find a divide, with some schools being Lisp schools and others being Prolog schools.  Again, depends on faculty experience and funding.

Just really curious about it. It's C-based right? I really don't know advanced stuff yet -- I'm just really so enthusiastic -- I hope curiosity doesn't kill the cat.  Grin
There has to be a Schroedinger joke in there somewhere.  Tongue

With Octave, I would say if you were proficient in C programming and Bash scripting, you could easily pick it up.  A lot of the functions and operator calls are the same as C, but the formatting reminds me a lot of Bash.
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« Reply #68 on: March 19, 2010, 02:00:01 AM »

Computer Science tends to have a fairly heavy course load, so it is easy to find yourself behind if you let things slide.
Yup.  I let all non-church things slide for Holy Week during both years of my software engineering studies and never did quite get caught up either year.  No wonder my cumulative GPA for spring terms was half a letter grade (0.50) lower than for the summer, fall, and winter terms combined (3.44 as compared to 3.92, both on a 4.00 scale).

Try and stay on top of your subjects, and you should do fine.  Spending late nights in a lab is a common occurrence.  laugh
You got that right! Tongue  No wonder those outside our field call us geeks.

There has to be a Schroedinger joke in there somewhere.  Tongue
The cat is alive AND dead.
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« Reply #69 on: March 23, 2010, 10:45:03 AM »

Have you read "Evidence of Things Not Seen" by Archbishop Lazar Puhalo? You may find it interesting as he puts forth the idea that there is no conflict between science and Orthodoxy.

Anyway, studying Computer Science is about as theologically dangerous as studying mathematics.
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« Reply #70 on: March 23, 2010, 01:20:12 PM »

Have you read "Evidence of Things Not Seen" by Archbishop Lazar Puhalo? You may find it interesting as he puts forth the idea that there is no conflict between science and Orthodoxy.

Anyway, studying Computer Science is about as theologically dangerous as studying mathematics.
True.  I minored in mathematics while pursuing a BA in music.
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« Reply #71 on: March 23, 2010, 01:39:17 PM »

Anyway, studying Computer Science is about as theologically dangerous as studying mathematics.
Depends.  Some take some of Turing's more philosophical notions to heart.  Wink
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« Reply #72 on: March 23, 2010, 03:17:57 PM »

well as Einstein said: "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" -- I have to perspire a lot then.

Not to get you down, but it was Edison who made that statement.  Assuming schools still have English prerequisites (it's been so long since I've been to college I suppose that might have changed), you might want to practice correct attribution.  Hate to see a sci major go down the drain due to a dictatorial English prof.

Einstein was the one who told us "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." and "There are two ways to live your life - one is as though nothing is a miracle, the other is as though everything is a miracle." And also, regarding stupid things schools make you learn/practice, "Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school."
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« Reply #73 on: March 24, 2010, 03:18:34 AM »

well as Einstein said: "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" -- I have to perspire a lot then.

Not to get you down, but it was Edison who made that statement.  Assuming schools still have English prerequisites (it's been so long since I've been to college I suppose that might have changed), you might want to practice correct attribution.  Hate to see a sci major go down the drain due to a dictatorial English prof.

Einstein was the one who told us "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." and "There are two ways to live your life - one is as though nothing is a miracle, the other is as though everything is a miracle." And also, regarding stupid things schools make you learn/practice, "Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school."

Indeed the Internet is full of gossips and wrong attributions -- I should be more careful!
BTW, I've finished Research Writing anyway so that would be no problem.
Do you agree with Einstein?  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #74 on: March 24, 2010, 03:20:34 AM »

Have you read "Evidence of Things Not Seen" by Archbishop Lazar Puhalo? You may find it interesting as he puts forth the idea that there is no conflict between science and Orthodoxy.

Anyway, studying Computer Science is about as theologically dangerous as studying mathematics.

It's not. Science and Faith just don't mix at all. Science however needs faith in some things but truly True Faith in Christ does not need any science whatsoever -- a good example would be the several Fools-for-Christs.  Did they learn science? Wink
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« Reply #75 on: July 25, 2010, 07:57:57 PM »

Lately I have been interested in how Orthodoxy relates to science, evolution, etc. I was hoping people could post some interesting articles they may have read on the topic. Here is one I found:

http://www.orthodoxcanada.org/sciandorth/modelsOFreality.htm

I was happy to find out that my good friend, who is an atheist, thought this article was quite interesting.
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« Reply #76 on: July 25, 2010, 08:39:45 PM »

I would strongly recommend everyone read Philip Sherrard's Human Image: World Image, in addition to classic patristic works on the subject..

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« Reply #77 on: July 25, 2010, 10:46:15 PM »

Have you read "Evidence of Things Not Seen" by Archbishop Lazar Puhalo? You may find it interesting as he puts forth the idea that there is no conflict between science and Orthodoxy.

Anyway, studying Computer Science is about as theologically dangerous as studying mathematics.

It's not. Science and Faith just don't mix at all. Science however needs faith in some things but truly True Faith in Christ does not need any science whatsoever -- a good example would be the several Fools-for-Christs.  Did they learn science? Wink
How do we know they didn't? Wink
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« Reply #78 on: July 26, 2010, 04:20:09 AM »

Have you read "Evidence of Things Not Seen" by Archbishop Lazar Puhalo? You may find it interesting as he puts forth the idea that there is no conflict between science and Orthodoxy.

Anyway, studying Computer Science is about as theologically dangerous as studying mathematics.

It's not. Science and Faith just don't mix at all. Science however needs faith in some things but truly True Faith in Christ does not need any science whatsoever -- a good example would be the several Fools-for-Christs.  Did they learn science? Wink
How do we know they didn't? Wink

Yeah, I mean they learned some things, like the seasons, animal anatomy, temperature, water boiling, that other planets exist, herbal remedies I assume, and other things about the physical world. Even uneducated people do experiments and hypotheses to some degree.

The herbal remedies stuff could be comparative to some things in modern medicine that could be used more. I am not sure we can just say they were illiterate therefore they didn't know science.

I asked an Old guy in Belarus what he thought the weather would be. He said today people have gotten more distant from the soil. Probably native Americans could tell some things we have a weak idea of.
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« Reply #79 on: March 05, 2011, 11:46:31 PM »

I don't think anyone mentioned Theodosius Grygorovych Dobzhansky (d. 1969), who quipped "nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution".

Dobzhansky also, apparently, denied the existence of a personal God.
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« Reply #80 on: March 06, 2011, 03:42:51 AM »

I am a chemical engineer. I am Orthodox, I have two Master's degrees, I have published many articles, given talks worldwide on various engineering topics,  and I know plenty of people from graduate school who have advanced degrees in engineering (mechanical, chemical) and science (chemistry) that are also Orthodox.

There is absolutely no contradiction in terms at all in doing science and keeping the Orthodox Faith. None what so ever. The domain of science is not spiritual in any way shape or form, not at all.

Do not give into the ignorance of many Christians who do not understand this simple fact. They may be well meaning but they are doing harm to you and those around them if they try to tell you that science is in conflict with Orthodoxy. That is a farce to say the least.

If you need someone who has real Orthodox credentials to substantiate this claim, go to Ancient Faith Radio and download the podcasts by Fr. Hopko on Darwin. It’s worth listening to clear this up. He makes the statement quite plainly that faith and science are separate topics.

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« Reply #81 on: March 06, 2011, 09:21:40 AM »

I don't think anyone mentioned Theodosius Grygorovych Dobzhansky (d. 1969), who quipped "nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution".

Dobzhansky also, apparently, denied the existence of a personal God.

that is debatable...his student says so, but Dr. Dobzhansky never denied the existence of God and claimed to be a believer in the Orthodox Church.  In his famous essay concerning religion and evolution, he called himself "an evolutionist and a creationist."
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« Reply #82 on: March 06, 2011, 09:43:27 AM »

I don't think anyone mentioned Theodosius Grygorovych Dobzhansky (d. 1969), who quipped "nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution".

Dobzhansky also, apparently, denied the existence of a personal God.
"Personal" God being defined as what, exactly?
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« Reply #83 on: March 06, 2011, 02:03:57 PM »

There is absolutely no contradiction in terms at all in doing science and keeping the Orthodox Faith. None what so ever. The domain of science is not spiritual in any way shape or form, not at all.

This is a Cartesian philosophy, not a Christian one.
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« Reply #84 on: March 06, 2011, 07:55:32 PM »

Cartesian and not Christian? That is exactly my point.

Science as a practice/profession is not Christian even if its practitioners themselves may be. Mixing the two ideas is not required for either practice to work nor is it helpful to either one. It is in fact very harmful.

What science does is not the same thing as how its results are used after the fact in response to either politics or religious beliefs. Science provides the facts of nature. People interpret them after the fact any way they wish.

Please understand that I do not mean to say that Christians should not take into account their beliefs in doing their work daily. Not at all. I am simply stating that to do science this is not needed. It should be applied as we all probably agree, but it is not a requirement to make science happen so to speak.

As I mentioned above. if you want better Orthodox credentials, go to ancient Faith Radio and listen to what Fr. Hopko has to say in his Darwin podcasts. Fr. Hopko is much more eloquent than I am on this topic. I simply agree with most of what he has to say regarding gaining a better education on how and what science is before taking it to task regarding matters of faith.

Fr. Hopko’s point is that we, in particular as Orthodox, should work to know what science is and to make sure that the picture of science that we have in our heads is really what science is, and not some straw man that we invent to argue about. This is also true in reverse about Christianity. The short of it is that there is room for both and a conflict does not need to be invented, in particular one based on false ideas. Smiley



Fr. Thomas Hopko's name prefaced with his title to make post compliant with forum rule that we give clergy the honor due their priestly office by using their proper titles.  -PtA

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« Reply #85 on: March 06, 2011, 09:15:38 PM »

IPM- the idea that we don't need to have recourse to God to understand creation; that we can "objectively" study nature without taking into account the spiritual forces that permeate, is indeed anti-Christian dualism.
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« Reply #86 on: March 14, 2011, 10:15:49 AM »

IPM- the idea that we don't need to have recourse to God to understand creation; that we can "objectively" study nature without taking into account the spiritual forces that permeate, is indeed anti-Christian dualism.
So we have to limit our understanding of Creation based upon the limits of each individual's faith?

That doesn't make any sense!

Aren't religion and science both dedicated to truth (although there are always those who will subvert either to their own ends)?
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