Author Topic: Synodikon of Orthodoxy  (Read 8692 times)

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Offline MarkosC

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Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« on: March 13, 2011, 06:05:22 PM »
Three questions:

- which liturgical book contains the Synodikon of Orthodoxy?

- Does anyone have [a link to?] the text of current official Synodikon used by the Ecumenical Patriarchate?   Greek is fine, though a translation also works.

- are there differences between the one used by the Ecumenical Patriarchate and with the Moscow, Antioch, Jerusalem or Alexandrian Patriarchates?
[Serbs, Bulgarians, Romanians etc. - if your patriarchates have differences, I'd be curious, though my main focus is Moscow and Antioch/Jerusalem/Antioch]

Thanks!
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 06:05:54 PM by MarkosC »
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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2011, 09:30:46 PM »
Another version: http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2010/02/synodicon-of-orthodoxy.html

Unfortunately John Sanidopoulos doesn't remember where he found this one!

Offline mike

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2013, 04:08:26 PM »
I was told today it is only performed by bishops. On the other hand I think I remember attending one celebrated by a presbyter. Can anyone explain?
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Offline Dominika

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2013, 04:24:08 PM »
I was told today it is only performed by bishops. On the other hand I think I remember attending one celebrated by a presbyter. Can anyone explain?

Last year there was a bishop in my parish and the Synodikon was done. Today there has no been any bishop, so the parson (the rector) just has read one general prayer from it and after this the choir has sung Te Deum and Preserve, O God, the Holy Orthodox Faith. So maybe that's true, that the full rite can be done only by bishop...  ???
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Offline Benjamin the Red

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2013, 06:42:49 PM »
I was told today it is only performed by bishops. On the other hand I think I remember attending one celebrated by a presbyter. Can anyone explain?

Last year there was a bishop in my parish and the Synodikon was done. Today there has no been any bishop, so the parson (the rector) just has read one general prayer from it and after this the choir has sung Te Deum and Preserve, O God, the Holy Orthodox Faith. So maybe that's true, that the full rite can be done only by bishop...  ???

It's my understanding that the Synodikon, in the Great Russian practice, is only done when a hierarch serves. Otherwise, the Great Prokeimenon is sung, "Who is so great a God as our God..." followed by the affirmation of the Nicene Creed and the final statement of the 7th Council, stating, "This is the Faith of our Fathers, this is the Faith of the Orthodox...this is the Faith that hath established the universe!!"

But, if a bishop is present, he blesses the people with the dikiri and trikiri for each "Memory eternal!" and turns them upside down for each "Anathema!"
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Offline mike

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2013, 06:44:40 PM »
I was told today it is only performed by bishops. On the other hand I think I remember attending one celebrated by a presbyter. Can anyone explain?

Last year there was a bishop in my parish and the Synodikon was done. Today there has no been any bishop, so the parson (the rector) just has read one general prayer from it and after this the choir has sung Te Deum and Preserve, O God, the Holy Orthodox Faith. So maybe that's true, that the full rite can be done only by bishop...  ???

It's my understanding that the Synodikon, in the Great Russian practice, is only done when a hierarch serves. Otherwise, the Great Prokeimenon is sung, "Who is so great a God as our God..." followed by the affirmation of the Nicene Creed and the final statement of the 7th Council, stating, "This is the Faith of our Fathers, this is the Faith of the Orthodox...this is the Faith that hath established the universe!!"

We had nothing. Just a regular DL (if you ignore it's St. Basil's).
« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 06:45:07 PM by Michał Kalina »
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Offline Benjamin the Red

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2013, 06:47:39 PM »
I was told today it is only performed by bishops. On the other hand I think I remember attending one celebrated by a presbyter. Can anyone explain?

Last year there was a bishop in my parish and the Synodikon was done. Today there has no been any bishop, so the parson (the rector) just has read one general prayer from it and after this the choir has sung Te Deum and Preserve, O God, the Holy Orthodox Faith. So maybe that's true, that the full rite can be done only by bishop...  ???

It's my understanding that the Synodikon, in the Great Russian practice, is only done when a hierarch serves. Otherwise, the Great Prokeimenon is sung, "Who is so great a God as our God..." followed by the affirmation of the Nicene Creed and the final statement of the 7th Council, stating, "This is the Faith of our Fathers, this is the Faith of the Orthodox...this is the Faith that hath established the universe!!"

We had nothing. Just a regular DL (if you ignore it's St. Basil's).

We inserted this with a procession of icons into the Liturgy, but I've been to other parishes that instead perform what I described above at Vespers on Sunday evening.
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Offline mike

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2013, 06:49:48 PM »
I've never heard about that procession thing done here.
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Offline Benjamin the Red

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2013, 07:09:21 PM »
I've never heard about that procession thing done here.

I think the US has some...unique...Sunday of Orthodoxy customs.
"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy

Offline William

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2013, 07:35:48 PM »
I was told today it is only performed by bishops. On the other hand I think I remember attending one celebrated by a presbyter. Can anyone explain?

Last year there was a bishop in my parish and the Synodikon was done. Today there has no been any bishop, so the parson (the rector) just has read one general prayer from it and after this the choir has sung Te Deum and Preserve, O God, the Holy Orthodox Faith. So maybe that's true, that the full rite can be done only by bishop...  ???

It's my understanding that the Synodikon, in the Great Russian practice, is only done when a hierarch serves. Otherwise, the Great Prokeimenon is sung, "Who is so great a God as our God..." followed by the affirmation of the Nicene Creed and the final statement of the 7th Council, stating, "This is the Faith of our Fathers, this is the Faith of the Orthodox...this is the Faith that hath established the universe!!"

We had nothing. Just a regular DL (if you ignore it's St. Basil's).

We inserted this with a procession of icons into the Liturgy, but I've been to other parishes that instead perform what I described above at Vespers on Sunday evening.

Your priest was at my parish for vespers.
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Offline mike

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2013, 07:55:36 PM »
I've never heard about that procession thing done here.

I think the US has some...unique...Sunday of Orthodoxy customs.

You don't like them?
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Offline Fr.Aidan

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2013, 08:04:09 PM »
At the end of Liturgy in my parish, we did a krestniy khod (cross procession) with people carrying Icons. No Synodikon unless a bishop is doing it.

Offline Dominika

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2013, 08:13:30 AM »
I've never heard about that procession thing done here.

I think the US has some...unique...Sunday of Orthodoxy customs.

It's not any particular American Orthodox custom.

Pictures of the procession with icons and recording (second one) of the Synodikon done this year in Kruševac in Serbia:
http://www.eparhijakrusevacka.com/вести/Света-Литургија-и-Литија-у-Недељу-Православља.html

An here you can watch a video of these ceremonies

And a video from Greece
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 08:36:27 AM by Dominika »
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Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2013, 10:12:40 AM »
What may be uniquely American on the Sunday of Orthodoxy is the getting together of bishops and/or priests and their congregations from different jurisdictions. This is done to (a) affirm that they consider each other to be canonical and/or (b) demonstrate that, despite their Protestant-like fragmentation, they are in truth part of the same Church.

Offline Romaios

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2013, 10:29:08 AM »
Some years ago, I've seen the Orthodoxy Sunday procession and the reading of the Synodikon done at Vatopaidi with no bishop present. From what I gather from the pictures taken this year, they've done it again that way (Abbot Ephrem wears a bishop-like mantyia):

   

Source

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2013, 12:02:49 PM »
Three questions:

- which liturgical book contains the Synodikon of Orthodoxy?

- Does anyone have [a link to?] the text of current official Synodikon used by the Ecumenical Patriarchate?   Greek is fine, though a translation also works.

- are there differences between the one used by the Ecumenical Patriarchate and with the Moscow, Antioch, Jerusalem or Alexandrian Patriarchates?
[Serbs, Bulgarians, Romanians etc. - if your patriarchates have differences, I'd be curious, though my main focus is Moscow and Antioch/Jerusalem/Antioch]

Thanks!
I haven't noticed any difference between the way the OCA and the Antiochians in North America do it.  I've been to Pan-Orthodox celebrations (this year I missed it, it was on Saturday night instead of Sunday for some reason) with EP, Antioch, Moscow, Romania, Serbia and the OCA represented (including by bishops), and no one seems to comment on any differences.
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Offline Fr.Aidan

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2013, 01:22:22 AM »
Supposedly in ROCOR we add denunciations of the "pan-heresy of ecumenism," or "false ecumenism," or something like that. But I don't think all our bishops add those phrases when they do the synodikon.

In the Western Rite, there exists a Synodikon (called, however, the Great Anathema) which is to be done on the First Sunday of Lent by priests in their parishes. Interesting East-West parallel.

Offline Dominika

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2013, 05:54:57 PM »
The procession done this year on the vigil of the Sunday of Orthodoxy in Bucharest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA_8Q7A0omE#t=9m46s

It reminds me a bit the Ways of the Cross which are done in the streets of Poland on the last Friday of the Great Lent or on Good Friday (depending on the parish)
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Offline Dionysii

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2013, 04:44:00 PM »
which liturgical book contains the Synodikon of Orthodoxy?
Traditionally, the Triodion.  I have seen Greek editions of the Triodion that include the Synodicon of Orthodoxy. 
However, Bishop Kallistos Ware omitted the Synodikon of Orthodoxy in his English translation of the Triodion.   

Does anyone have [a link to?] the text of current official Synodikon used by the Ecumenical Patriarchate?   Greek is fine, though a translation also works.
The most complete English translation of which I am aware was published by Holy Transfiguration Monastery of Boston in the Spring of 2000 in a special double issue of The True Vine (Issue Numbers 27 & 28). 

are there differences between the one used by the Ecumenical Patriarchate and with the Moscow, Antioch, Jerusalem or Alexandrian Patriarchates? ... if ... have differences, I'd be curious ...
I have not looked into this detail. 
I doubt the coincidence that an Old Calendarist Synod happens to have published the most complete edition available in English. 

In my opinion, this document is not well known by English speakers precisely to keep English speaking people from questioning their synods' compliance with what it says. The Synodicon of Orthodoxy was omitted from Bishop Kallistos Ware's English translation of the Triodion because it names and anathematizes heresies as well as names Saints who have followed the truth.  If parishioners knew and understood the implications of the contents of the Synodikon of Orthodoxy, then many synods would have a lot to explain.

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2013, 04:54:56 PM »

Offline Dionysii

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2013, 05:13:34 PM »
Holy Transfiguration Monastery of Boston plans to publish an English edition of the Triodion which would include the Synodicon of Orthodoxy in the same book.  Although it looks like that may be a while, judging by its place in their tentative publishing schedule:
http://www.htmp.org/publications-home.html

Offline Dionysii

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2013, 05:31:55 PM »
Synodicon of Orthodoxy
http://www.oodegr.com/english/ekklisia/synodoi/synodicon_of_orthodoxy.htm

This one is followed by the article of Metropolitan Hierotheos Vlachos explaining the Synodicon of Orthodoxy.
The Orthodox Outlet For Dogmatic Enquiries (OODE) website is the most informative English language website I have seen from the Synod of Greece.  The books it has online are really well chosen and choice.

For what it's worth, the edition of the True Vine which I mentioned also includes the Synodicon of the Holy Spirit, but that is not read until the second day of Pentecost.

Offline mike

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2013, 05:45:14 PM »
The Synodicon of Orthodoxy was omitted from Bishop Kallistos Ware's English translation of the Triodion because it names and anathematizes heresies as well as names Saints who have followed the truth.  If parishioners knew and understood the implications of the contents of the Synodikon of Orthodoxy, then many synods would have a lot to explain.

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Offline Dionysii

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2013, 06:42:55 PM »
which liturgical book contains the Synodikon of Orthodoxy?

"The 'Synodikon of Orthodoxy' is a text contained in the “Triodion” and read on the Sunday of Orthodoxy, the first Sunday of Lent."
- Metropolitan Hierotheos of Nafpaktos
http://www.oodegr.com/english/ekklisia/synodoi/synodicon_of_orthodoxy.htm


Just so you don't have to take my word for it.

Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2013, 02:22:16 AM »
Why did Titular Metropolitan Kallistos not do translation of the synodikon of orthodoxy in that? sounds very silly for himj to not translate it.

Then again, when is the last time the Patriarchate of Constantinople pronounced it?
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Offline Dionysii

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2013, 10:36:52 AM »
Why did Titular Metropolitan Kallistos not do translation of the synodikon of orthodoxy in that? sounds very silly for himj to not translate it.

Then again, when is the last time the Patriarchate of Constantinople pronounced it?

It was read by the priest in the local Church here (Greek Old Calendar/Matthewite).

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2013, 11:40:13 AM »
Another version: http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2010/02/synodicon-of-orthodoxy.html

Unfortunately John Sanidopoulos doesn't remember where he found this one!

Maybe from here:

http://preachersinstitute.com/2011/03/11/the-synodikon-of-orthodoxy/

I lol'd when it called St. Severus of Antioch and Sergius the Monophysite "Like-minded".

Offline jah777

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2013, 01:10:46 PM »
Another version: http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2010/02/synodicon-of-orthodoxy.html

Unfortunately John Sanidopoulos doesn't remember where he found this one!

Maybe from here:

http://preachersinstitute.com/2011/03/11/the-synodikon-of-orthodoxy/

I lol'd when it called St. Severus of Antioch and Sergius the Monophysite "Like-minded".

Brings to mind the words of the Lord:
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Woe to you who laugh now, For you shall mourn and weep. (Luke 6:25)
  :police:

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2013, 01:12:06 PM »
Another version: http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2010/02/synodicon-of-orthodoxy.html

Unfortunately John Sanidopoulos doesn't remember where he found this one!

Maybe from here:

http://preachersinstitute.com/2011/03/11/the-synodikon-of-orthodoxy/

I lol'd when it called St. Severus of Antioch and Sergius the Monophysite "Like-minded".

Brings to mind the words of the Lord:
Quote
Woe to you who laugh now, For you shall mourn and weep. (Luke 6:25)
  :police:

Better yet:

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Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Offline arimethea

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2013, 02:59:48 PM »
which liturgical book contains the Synodikon of Orthodoxy?
Traditionally, the Triodion.  I have seen Greek editions of the Triodion that include the Synodicon of Orthodoxy. 
However, Bishop Kallistos Ware omitted the Synodikon of Orthodoxy in his English translation of the Triodion.   

In my opinion, this document is not well known by English speakers precisely to keep English speaking people from questioning their synods' compliance with what it says. The Synodicon of Orthodoxy was omitted from Bishop Kallistos Ware's English translation of the Triodion because it names and anathematizes heresies as well as names Saints who have followed the truth.  If parishioners knew and understood the implications of the contents of the Synodikon of Orthodoxy, then many synods would have a lot to explain.


First, Metropolitan Kallistos did not translate any of the Triodion. Mother Mary did the liturgical text translation. It is what was being doing in her monastery. There is a lot more than just the synodikon missing from the edition with Metropolitan Kallistos' name on it. There is a supplemental volume that includes many of the missing text. I am not sure if it is in there or not, maybe someone else can answer that.

The reason it is not included in the popular English version of Met. Kallistos and Mother Mary is that the full Synodikon is only suppose to be done by a bishop. The problem is we have many priest who think of themselves as bishops, but only a Bishop can give an anathema (and even then it should be done in Synod).
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Offline jah777

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2013, 03:43:08 PM »
which liturgical book contains the Synodikon of Orthodoxy?
Traditionally, the Triodion.  I have seen Greek editions of the Triodion that include the Synodicon of Orthodoxy. 
However, Bishop Kallistos Ware omitted the Synodikon of Orthodoxy in his English translation of the Triodion.   

In my opinion, this document is not well known by English speakers precisely to keep English speaking people from questioning their synods' compliance with what it says. The Synodicon of Orthodoxy was omitted from Bishop Kallistos Ware's English translation of the Triodion because it names and anathematizes heresies as well as names Saints who have followed the truth.  If parishioners knew and understood the implications of the contents of the Synodikon of Orthodoxy, then many synods would have a lot to explain.


There is a supplemental volume that includes many of the missing text. I am not sure if it is in there or not, maybe someone else can answer that.

No, the Synodikon is not in the supplemental volume.

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2013, 04:32:59 PM »
There is a supplemental volume that includes many of the missing text. I am not sure if it is in there or not, maybe someone else can answer that.

No, the Synodikon is not in the supplemental volume.

Thanks for confirming this. Like I had said previously, Mother Mary's translations are what was being used in her community. Since there was no Bishop in here female monastery, then why would she ever bother translating the entire Synodikon? These text were not about completeness, instead they where about being practical. That is why the weekend text were released in a single volume and widely distributed, and the weekday text are almost impossible to find.
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Offline Dionysii

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2013, 11:59:33 PM »
the weekday text are almost impossible to find.
I believe St John of Kronstadt Press sells the Supplemental volume.

Offline Dionysii

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2013, 12:04:00 AM »
The reason it is not included in the popular English version of Met. Kallistos and Mother Mary is that the full Synodikon is only suppose to be done by a bishop.
That is definitely not the custom in my Church. 
Do you know of a written precedent which teaches that the Synodicon can only be read by a bishop?

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2013, 12:38:44 AM »
The reason it is not included in the popular English version of Met. Kallistos and Mother Mary is that the full Synodikon is only suppose to be done by a bishop.
That is definitely not the custom in my Church.  
Do you know of a written precedent which teaches that the Synodicon can only be read by a bishop?

It is as arimathea has said: only bishops, and a synod of bishops at that, can issue anathemas. Lower clergy and laymen do not have this authority. If your church is conducting the Synodikon without a bishop, it is in error.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 12:40:09 AM by LBK »
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Offline Dionysii

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2013, 01:44:47 AM »
only bishops, and a synod of bishops at that, can issue anathemas. Lower clergy and laymen do not have this authority. If your church is conducting the Synodikon without a bishop, it is in error.
Thank you.  I do already understand that the issuance of anathemas is a matter reserved for bishops.  

I understand that for a priest or lay reader to read the Synodicon (or any anathema issued by a synod) aloud publicly in Church in the absence of a bishop is to proclaim an anathema already issued by a synod.  The synod is the entity which issues the anathema - not the reader who merely proclaims it.  

It appears likely that we have a significantly different understanding of how the word "issue" is understood in this context.


EDIT:  Do you know of any canon or written tradition that explicitly prohibits anyone other than bishops from reading anathemas (issued by a synod) aloud in Church - in cases where a bishop is absent?
I am quite certain that my Church practices correctly by reading the Synodicon aloud.  Otherwise, how would people hear the truth?  
If you can produce some written evidence from the tradition of the Orthodox Church that explicitly outlaws Church readers from reading synodal decrees such as anathemas aloud, then I would be glad to reconsider.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 02:04:55 AM by Dionysii »

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2013, 02:04:44 AM »
only bishops, and a synod of bishops at that, can issue anathemas. Lower clergy and laymen do not have this authority. If your church is conducting the Synodikon without a bishop, it is in error.
Thank you.  I do already understand that the issuance of anathemas is a matter reserved for bishops.  

I understand that for a priest or lay reader to read the Synodicon (or any anathema issued by a synod) aloud publicly in Church in the absence of a bishop is to proclaim an anathema already issued by a synod.  The synod is the entity which issues the anathema - not the reader who merely proclaims it.  

It appears likely that we have a significantly different understanding of how the word "issue" is understood in this context.


EDIT:  Do you know of any canon or written tradition that explicitly prohibits anyone other than bishops from reading anathemas (issued by a synod) aloud in Church - in cases where a bishop is absent?

Not everything is written down in Orthodoxy, a great many traditions are simply, and correctly, passed down by other means - by praxis, by oral tradition, etc. What is consistent in this case, as attested to by contributors to this thread, is that the Synodikon service is not served in the absence of a bishop. The absence of the text of this service from most Lenten Triodia published for parish and monastic use is also instructive.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 02:07:26 AM by LBK »
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Offline Dionysii

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2013, 02:17:16 AM »
Not everything is written down in Orthodoxy, a great many traditions are simply, and correctly, passed down by other means - by praxis, by oral tradition, etc.
If that is indeed all you have to go on, then I would say that the tradition of any Church which prohibits the reading of the Synodicon of Orthodoxy on the first Lord's day of Lent is a Church that uses a tradition which is an artificial fabrication and a lie. 

To accuse Churches which make known and proclaim the Synodicon of Orthodoxy publicly aloud in Church even without a bishop as allegedly being in error is to falsely accuse without any precedent in Christian tradition except that which has been fabricated by heretics in modern times for their own convenience.

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2013, 02:23:48 AM »
What is consistent in this case, as attested to by contributors to this thread, is that the Synodikon service is not served in the absence of a bishop.
This is an indication only that these individuals have been persuaded to follow a recent popular custom and that they are ignorant of ancient tradition.

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2013, 02:27:48 AM »
What is consistent in this case, as attested to by contributors to this thread, is that the Synodikon service is not served in the absence of a bishop.
This is an indication only that these individuals have been persuaded to follow a recent popular custom and that they are ignorant of ancient tradition.

You seem very sure of yourself in this regard. So what is the "ancient tradition"?
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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2013, 02:58:51 AM »
So what is the "ancient tradition"?

"We have received from the Church of God, that upon this day we owe yearly thanksgiving to God along with an exposition of the dogmas of piety and the overturning of the impieties of evil."
http://www.oodegr.com/english/ekklisia/synodoi/synodicon_of_orthodoxy.htm

This is the very first line of the Synodicon of Orthodoxy.  "It refers to an imperial edict of 11 March 842 which recalled Orthodox clergy.  After St. Methodius was elected Patriarch, the Synod promulgate this Synodicon, which was formally read on 11 March 843, the First Sunday of Great Lent."
- 'The True Vine' Issue Numbers 27 & 28 (Spring 2000), page 35 (footnote)

Nothing in the Synodicon nor in this issue with the English translation say anything about a bishop being necessary to read it.  
Such a doctrine about episcopal presence is completely heretical.  It not only violates one or a few of the anathemas.  It violates the entire Synodicon of Orthodoxy by tossing it to the wind.  That is the motive which gave form to this unsubstantiated bishop theory.  

EDIT:  Those words may seem strong to some, but I have always taken this as elemental.  I follow unchanging laws and eternal truths rather than men.  If anyone can show me where I am mistaken about this from the tradition of the Church, then I will reconsider my own position. 

Anyway, those are my comments with no intention of squelching anyone else.  I had perceived that genuine tradition was getting the shaft by persons who had never been familiar with it.  It is not a conspiracy theory to speak up when you know something pertinent that is not being voiced.  The bishop doctrine is the only theory so far advanced in this thread.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 03:08:30 AM by Dionysii »

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2013, 05:03:26 AM »
A response to the matter from a priest-monk:

Quote
It was performed in cathedrals and (not necessarily) monasteries.  But in the last few decades it seems many parishes want to do the anathemas too. 

I am waiting to hear from three more priests and a tonsured reader.
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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2013, 06:16:08 AM »
From the distinguished liturgist and translator Br Isaac Lambertsen:

Quote
In the practice of the Church of Russia, this Rite is never performed except in the presence of a bishop.

However, for nearly a century the Church of Russia has had a special prayer service entitled "The Order of the Hymn of Supplication for the Conversion of Those in Error, Chanted on the Sunday of Orthodoxy, & in Other Cases of Need" ['Posledovanie molebnago peniya o obrashchenii zabluzhdshikh, pevaemago v nedeliu pravoslavia i vo inykh potrebnykh sluchaekh']. A reprint of the 1902 Slavonic text of this prayer service was made at Holy Trinity Monastery, Jordanville, in 1967, and may still be available from them. A translation into English is available from the St. John of Kronstadt Press.

The rubric at the beginning of this service states: "The Most Holy Governing Synod, in directing the printing of [this prayer service] has appointed it to be served in monasteries, and in urban and rural churches, on the first Sunday of the Great Fast, also blessing it for use by missionaries
1) when they set forth to converse [dialogue] with schismatics and sectarians,
2) when they reunite to the Orthodox Church those they have turned back to the path of Truth, and
3) at the opening of district and diocesan missionary conferences, and on othersimilar occasions."

Our presence in the West being very much of a missionary character, I feel that every parish priest should have this service in his library and use it during the year.

Sincerely,

Isaac Lambertsen.

Source: http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav/message/4534
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 06:16:44 AM by LBK »
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Offline jah777

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2013, 06:23:30 AM »
On another forum, a nun from the Lesna convent in France stated:
Quote
The rubrics of this service call for a bishop to celebrate, and say that this service is celebrated in Cathedrals and some monasteries. The anathemas, as well as the commemorations and "Memory Eternal's", and then the "Many Years" are proclaimed by a deacon and chanted by all the clergy present, and then the choir. But there's no reason why a group of laypeople can't read the text.

When I was a young girl in NYC and attended the ROCA Synod Cathedral, they would [start] the Liturgy 1/2 (hr) later than usual on the Sunday of Orthodoxy, so that all of the clergy from the nearby parishes could attend (back then there were at least 8 parishes in NYC, and around 8 within an hour's drive) and up to 40 priests would gather, and at least 3 bishops. It was a truly impressive service.

Some of the nuns here at Lesna still remember St. John of Shanghai celebrating it at the monastery.

http://www.euphrosynoscafe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=9968&p=56010&hilit=synodikon+read#p56013
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 06:27:15 AM by jah777 »

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2013, 06:44:57 AM »
From the tonsured reader I contacted:

Quote
According to the rubics it is read by the protodeacon, in the presence of the bishop.
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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2013, 07:39:20 AM »
From another priest, under the GOAA:

Quote

The Synodikon is not properly served without a bishop, though it happens, especially here among zealous converts in the OCA, though never in a Greek Church. It is really a patriarchal office. It is not done on Athos with the anathemas.
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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2013, 08:10:42 AM »
In North America, the Greek Old Calendarist group HOCNA is pretty well known for translating, publishing, and promoting the reading of the Synodikon by the faithful in general.  A few years ago I went to a HOCNA parish on the Sunday of Orthodox expecting the Synodikon to be read at the service but was told by the priest afterwards that the Synodikon is typically only read in a Cathedral with a bishop present.

That being said, has anyone here actually heard the Synodikon read in a cathedral with a bishop on the Sunday of Orthodoxy?  I believe this is still done in ROCOR, but am not sure about other jurisdictions.

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2013, 09:10:06 AM »
That being said, has anyone here actually heard the Synodikon read in a cathedral with a bishop on the Sunday of Orthodoxy?  I believe this is still done in ROCOR, but am not sure about other jurisdictions.

The only time I have ever heard the Synodikon done in its entirety was at cathedral, with a bishop serving. Same cathedral when the bishop was not present just did the "What the prophet's beheld..."
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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2013, 09:11:52 AM »
Not everything is written down in Orthodoxy, a great many traditions are simply, and correctly, passed down by other means - by praxis, by oral tradition, etc.
If that is indeed all you have to go on, then I would say that the tradition of any Church which prohibits the reading of the Synodicon of Orthodoxy on the first Lord's day of Lent is a Church that uses a tradition which is an artificial fabrication and a lie. 

To accuse Churches which make known and proclaim the Synodicon of Orthodoxy publicly aloud in Church even without a bishop as allegedly being in error is to falsely accuse without any precedent in Christian tradition except that which has been fabricated by heretics in modern times for their own convenience.

Did you just call me a heretic?
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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #50 on: April 11, 2013, 09:19:17 AM »
That being said, has anyone here actually heard the Synodikon read in a cathedral with a bishop on the Sunday of Orthodoxy?  I believe this is still done in ROCOR, but am not sure about other jurisdictions.

The only time I have ever heard the Synodikon done in its entirety was at cathedral, with a bishop serving. Same cathedral when the bishop was not present just did the "What the prophet's beheld..."

If in America or other historically non-Orthodox land, what jurisdiction?

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #51 on: April 11, 2013, 09:28:52 AM »
Not everything is written down in Orthodoxy, a great many traditions are simply, and correctly, passed down by other means - by praxis, by oral tradition, etc.
If that is indeed all you have to go on, then I would say that the tradition of any Church which prohibits the reading of the Synodicon of Orthodoxy on the first Lord's day of Lent is a Church that uses a tradition which is an artificial fabrication and a lie.  

To accuse Churches which make known and proclaim the Synodicon of Orthodoxy publicly aloud in Church even without a bishop as allegedly being in error is to falsely accuse without any precedent in Christian tradition except that which has been fabricated by heretics in modern times for their own convenience.

Did you just call me a heretic?

He certainly seems to have said so for those who regard the synodikon as an episcopal service.  :o

Unfortunately for Dionysii, the evidence is mounting that it is he who is in error on this matter.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 09:34:09 AM by LBK »
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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #52 on: April 11, 2013, 09:56:41 AM »
I know that I speak for many of us who are tired of being called out as a heretic - not directly, but surely by tone and inference by one not in the community of canonical Orthodoxy. Enough already. You have a right to believe as you wish but I suspect that the Saints and Elders whom you respect and reverence would not approve of haughtiness and the lack of introspective humility often displayed by certain posters. We are all imperfect and during the Fast, as we all approach the Great Day, the words of St. Ephraim the Syrian should be first and foremost on our tongues, our minds and our hearts - not the dusty words of the Synodikon, rightly reserved for use at best in full once a year.To obsess about it is to be like the Pharisee whose prayers were not pleasing to the Lord .

O Lord and Master of my life, take from me the spirit of sloth, despair, lust of power, and idle talk.

But give rather the spirit of chastity, humility, patience, and love to Thy servant.

Yea, O Lord and King, grant me to see my own transgressions, and not to judge my brother, for blessed art Thou, unto ages of ages. Amen.
[/color][/b]

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #53 on: April 11, 2013, 10:08:46 AM »
A reply from another priest:

Quote

I am under the impression that the anathemas are done only with a bishop present.

When I look in the annual Instruction for Divine Services for 2013 (MP) for example for the Sunday of Orthodoxy it only has a Service (Последование) of the Sunday of Orthodoxy. This service prays for the strengthening of Orthodoxy. Priests and deacons are referred to but there is no reference to a bishop. It contains none of the anathemas. (on this Sunday many of our rocor parishes- ours included- do a moleben for the return to Orthodoxy of those who have gone astray- this seems appropriate in our western circumstances).



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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #54 on: April 11, 2013, 10:09:17 AM »
I know that I speak for many of us who are tired of being called out as a heretic - not directly, but surely by tone and inference by one not in the community of canonical Orthodoxy. Enough already. You have a right to believe as you wish but I suspect that the Saints and Elders whom you respect and reverence would not approve of haughtiness and the lack of introspective humility often displayed by certain posters. We are all imperfect and during the Fast, as we all approach the Great Day, the words of St. Ephraim the Syrian should be first and foremost on our tongues, our minds and our hearts - not the dusty words of the Synodikon, rightly reserved for use at best in full once a year.To obsess about it is to be like the Pharisee whose prayers were not pleasing to the Lord .

O Lord and Master of my life, take from me the spirit of sloth, despair, lust of power, and idle talk.

But give rather the spirit of chastity, humility, patience, and love to Thy servant.

Yea, O Lord and King, grant me to see my own transgressions, and not to judge my brother, for blessed art Thou, unto ages of ages. Amen.
[/color][/b]

Well said, my friend. Well said.  :-*
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Offline Dionysii

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #55 on: April 11, 2013, 01:27:23 PM »
the evidence is mounting that it is he who is in error on this matter.
Quote
According to the rubrics it is read by the protodeacon, in the presence of the bishop.

If this is "mounting evidence," then could you be more specific?

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #56 on: April 11, 2013, 04:43:24 PM »
To accuse Churches which make known and proclaim the Synodicon of Orthodoxy publicly aloud in Church even without a bishop as allegedly being in error is to falsely accuse without any precedent in Christian tradition except that which has been fabricated by heretics in modern times for their own convenience.

According to your new sect, you were a heretic until about a week ago. You might want to be more circumspect in waving the h-word around.

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #57 on: April 11, 2013, 06:40:07 PM »
the evidence is mounting that it is he who is in error on this matter.
Quote
According to the rubrics it is read by the protodeacon, in the presence of the bishop.

If this is "mounting evidence," then could you be more specific?

Think about it this way... There are certain things that are left to the Bishops alone. For example ordination. Only a Bishop can ordain, that is the tradition. What canon gives them that authority? Can you cite the specific canon that says only a bishop can ordain?

So if a bishop ordains someone and wants to let everyone know, he sends out a letter to his diocese. This announcement may be read by someone in the church, but the people do not sing the Axios threefold again for this proclamation, that would be in error. The service of ordination can only be done by the Bishop.

With this in mind there is nothing wrong with publishing the entire Synodikon. There is even nothing wrong with everyone saying together the creedal statement of "As the prophets beheld..." because it is a universal proclamation of what we believe. The problem comes when a priest over steps his authority to proclaim "Anathema", this proclamation of Anathema is reserved for the Bishop alone, just as his proclamation of Axios at ordination is reserved for him alone. The priest, deacons, and laity can only confirm this with a reply.

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« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 07:32:12 AM by arimethea »
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Offline Fotina02

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #58 on: April 11, 2013, 09:45:37 PM »
Beautiful!

Recollections of the Triumph of Orthodoxy in Moscow, 1914
Johann von Gardner (+1984)

Quote
“All those who deny the existence of God, and assert that the world came into being by itself – Anathema!”
“Anathema! Anathema! Anathema!” — in an awesome unison the entire mass of clergy, the vast majority of whom were bassos, sang in reply.
The Synodal Choir took up and echoed the chant, “Anathema, Anathema, Anathema!”
Once again, Rozov “exclaimed” a new separation – and in response the awesome “anathema” thundered from the clergy and choir.
The faces of the holy martyrs looked out sternly from the frescoes on the tall columns. Sternly and solemnly, in all the glory of Orthodoxy the bishops stood, vested in gold sakkoses that looked as if they had been forged [rather than woven].
The Church’s awesome power to bind and loose was palpable. Those proclaimed anathemas, which year in and year out had thundered from within the confines of these arches, were terrifying and awesome.
http://www.pravmir.com/recollections-of-the-triumph-of-orthodoxy-in-moscow-1914/

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #59 on: April 11, 2013, 11:27:21 PM »
the evidence is mounting that it is he who is in error on this matter.
Quote
According to the rubrics it is read by the protodeacon, in the presence of the bishop.

If this is "mounting evidence," then could you be more specific?

Dionysii, do you know what rubrics are?
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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #60 on: April 12, 2013, 12:01:50 AM »
From another priest:

Quote
My understanding is that this rite belongs to a cathedral, and that it be in the presence of the bishop.
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Offline Dionysii

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #61 on: April 12, 2013, 10:07:44 PM »
From the tonsured reader I contacted:
Quote
According to the rubics it is read by the protodeacon, in the presence of the bishop.

Dionysii, do you know what rubrics are?
Liturgical guidelines.

By "more specific," I wanted to know what date these aforementioned rubrics originated because I would be surprised if this custom has an ancient precedent.  I was interested to know the date and author of such rubrics. 

I read Fr. Leonid Ouspensky's excellent history of iconography in which he states in the introduction that the passage of time including even several centuries does not make a wrong thing right.  A general trend of westernization of Eastern Orthodoxy took place in the seventeenth century which affected many things besides iconography such as theology (which process is described by Fr. Florovsky).  I also learned recently from Fr. Thomas Hopko that the fixation of the mysteries of the Church at exactly seven is another doctrine which the Eastern Orthodoxy has adopted from the Franks and which completely lacks any ancient foundation. 

Fr. Leonid Ouspensky specifically states that Russian liturgics were altered by Patriarch Nikon and his followers who introduced the Frankist custom of polyphonic chant into Russian Orthodox churches.  This was obviously accompanied by new rubrics.

Your have only shown what many people practice today, but I already know that most people do not hear the whole Synodicon read on the first Lord's Day of Lent.  I admit I am now more aware of the excuse offered for deleting it, but I would need evidence this custom is an ancient tradition of the Church as well as the reason for it which is beyond me. 

I wonder what could possibly be the purpose of such rubrics if it were not to promote the ignorance of people who were not directly under the thumb of an apostate bishop who would keep his flock ignorant in the same manner as the bishops of the Franks.

Offline Dionysii

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #62 on: April 12, 2013, 10:23:05 PM »
"We have received from the Church of God, that upon this day we owe yearly thanksgiving to God along with an exposition of the dogmas of piety and the overturning of the impieties of evil."
http://www.oodegr.com/english/ekklisia/synodoi/synodicon_of_orthodoxy.htm

If your church is conducting the Synodikon without a bishop, it is in error.

I wonder what underlying reason would justify any rubrics proscribing what the Seventh Oecumenical Synod has commanded. 
Were these rubrics included with the Seventh Oecumenical Synod or added many centuries later?

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #63 on: April 12, 2013, 10:26:38 PM »
The prerogative for the issuing of anathemas has always resided solely with bishops. Deal with it.

Where is the written evidence which allows lower clergy to issue anathemas, Dionysii? You are simply looking to justify a practice in your own schismatic church, a practice which none of the other canonical churches, certainly not the Greek or Russian churches, regard as proper.

And flinging charges of heresy and apostasism is not only no way of conducting an argument, nor is it humble or justifiable.  >:(
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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #64 on: April 12, 2013, 10:40:53 PM »
which liturgical book contains the Synodikon of Orthodoxy?
Traditionally, the Triodion.  I have seen Greek editions of the Triodion that include the Synodicon of Orthodoxy. 
However, Bishop Kallistos Ware omitted the Synodikon of Orthodoxy in his English translation of the Triodion.   

Does anyone have [a link to?] the text of current official Synodikon used by the Ecumenical Patriarchate?   Greek is fine, though a translation also works.
The most complete English translation of which I am aware was published by Holy Transfiguration Monastery of Boston in the Spring of 2000 in a special double issue of The True Vine (Issue Numbers 27 & 28). 

are there differences between the one used by the Ecumenical Patriarchate and with the Moscow, Antioch, Jerusalem or Alexandrian Patriarchates? ... if ... have differences, I'd be curious ...
I have not looked into this detail. 
I doubt the coincidence that an Old Calendarist Synod happens to have published the most complete edition available in English. 

In my opinion, this document is not well known by English speakers precisely to keep English speaking people from questioning their synods' compliance with what it says. The Synodicon of Orthodoxy was omitted from Bishop Kallistos Ware's English translation of the Triodion because it names and anathematizes heresies as well as names Saints who have followed the truth.  If parishioners knew and understood the implications of the contents of the Synodikon of Orthodoxy, then many synods would have a lot to explain.
Oh?  We have a shortage of people who speak English and Greek and Russian/Slavonic, such that its contents remain a deep, dark secret, because not one of such bilinguals are telling?

So, what of its contents do you think we need to know?
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Offline LBK

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #65 on: April 12, 2013, 10:52:30 PM »
which liturgical book contains the Synodikon of Orthodoxy?
Traditionally, the Triodion.  I have seen Greek editions of the Triodion that include the Synodicon of Orthodoxy. 
However, Bishop Kallistos Ware omitted the Synodikon of Orthodoxy in his English translation of the Triodion.   

Does anyone have [a link to?] the text of current official Synodikon used by the Ecumenical Patriarchate?   Greek is fine, though a translation also works.
The most complete English translation of which I am aware was published by Holy Transfiguration Monastery of Boston in the Spring of 2000 in a special double issue of The True Vine (Issue Numbers 27 & 28). 

are there differences between the one used by the Ecumenical Patriarchate and with the Moscow, Antioch, Jerusalem or Alexandrian Patriarchates? ... if ... have differences, I'd be curious ...
I have not looked into this detail. 
I doubt the coincidence that an Old Calendarist Synod happens to have published the most complete edition available in English. 

In my opinion, this document is not well known by English speakers precisely to keep English speaking people from questioning their synods' compliance with what it says. The Synodicon of Orthodoxy was omitted from Bishop Kallistos Ware's English translation of the Triodion because it names and anathematizes heresies as well as names Saints who have followed the truth.  If parishioners knew and understood the implications of the contents of the Synodikon of Orthodoxy, then many synods would have a lot to explain.
Oh?  We have a shortage of people who speak English and Greek and Russian/Slavonic, such that its contents remain a deep, dark secret, because not one of such bilinguals are telling?

So, what of its contents do you think we need to know?

Spare us the conspiracy theories, Dionysii. I have on file an English translation of the Synodikon, translated by a priest of a canonical Greek jurisdiction under the EP.



Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #66 on: April 12, 2013, 10:54:00 PM »
which liturgical book contains the Synodikon of Orthodoxy?
Traditionally, the Triodion.  I have seen Greek editions of the Triodion that include the Synodicon of Orthodoxy. 
However, Bishop Kallistos Ware omitted the Synodikon of Orthodoxy in his English translation of the Triodion.   

Does anyone have [a link to?] the text of current official Synodikon used by the Ecumenical Patriarchate?   Greek is fine, though a translation also works.
The most complete English translation of which I am aware was published by Holy Transfiguration Monastery of Boston in the Spring of 2000 in a special double issue of The True Vine (Issue Numbers 27 & 28). 

are there differences between the one used by the Ecumenical Patriarchate and with the Moscow, Antioch, Jerusalem or Alexandrian Patriarchates? ... if ... have differences, I'd be curious ...
I have not looked into this detail. 
I doubt the coincidence that an Old Calendarist Synod happens to have published the most complete edition available in English. 

In my opinion, this document is not well known by English speakers precisely to keep English speaking people from questioning their synods' compliance with what it says. The Synodicon of Orthodoxy was omitted from Bishop Kallistos Ware's English translation of the Triodion because it names and anathematizes heresies as well as names Saints who have followed the truth.  If parishioners knew and understood the implications of the contents of the Synodikon of Orthodoxy, then many synods would have a lot to explain.
Oh?  We have a shortage of people who speak English and Greek and Russian/Slavonic, such that its contents remain a deep, dark secret, because not one of such bilinguals are telling?

So, what of its contents do you think we need to know?

Spare us the conspiracy theories, Dionysii. I have on file an English translation of the Synodikon, translated by a priest of a canonical Greek jurisdiction under the EP.
shhhhh! you're not supposed to tell! :police:
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Dionysii

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #67 on: April 12, 2013, 10:57:18 PM »
Where is the written evidence which allows lower clergy to issue anathemas, Dionysii?
None that I know, but that is not the issue since we do not issue anathemas when we read them.
These anathemas were issued in the eighth century by the Seventh Oecumenical Synod.  

We had already been over that.  When I ask a pointed question, you don't answer the question I ask or even admit you don't know.
You get angry, recycle your old garbage like the accusation above, and accuse me of impiety, conspiracy theories, etc,  
but you avoid my question to the end.  


You do not answer my questions because you cannot and resort to slander.  
I have not accused you nor anyone here specifically of being a heretic or a schismatic.  I have not accused you of lack of humility.
You are the one who accuses us specifically of being schismatics and myself as lacking humility.  Is that humble? I have not done that to you.  

I am glad that when I accused other synods of being heretical, I took care not to single out anyone specifically.  
I stated what I believe, and I continue to be convinced that the tradition which you speak of lacks any antiquity.  

EDIT:
God bless you, my friend.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 10:59:14 PM by Dionysii »

Offline SolEX01

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #68 on: April 12, 2013, 11:06:33 PM »
Where is the written evidence which allows lower clergy to issue anathemas, Dionysii?
None that I know, but that is not the issue since we do not issue anathemas when we read them.
These anathemas were issued in the eighth century by the Seventh Oecumenical Synod.

So a Bishop issuing an anathema is a one time event even if the same Bishop says that the restoration of icons is to be commemorated on the first Sunday of the Great Lent?  1,170 years after the Seventh Ecumenical Synod, Bishops should just stop repeating the anathemas listed in the Synodikon?

Lay people have read the Synodikon including the anathemas.  My church used to say some of the anathemas in the Synodikon; however, in recent years, they have stopped because priests and laymen cannot issue anathemas.
  

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #69 on: April 12, 2013, 11:24:12 PM »
So a Bishop issuing an anathema is a one time event even if the same Bishop says that the restoration of icons is to be commemorated on the first Sunday of the Great Lent?  1,170 years after the Seventh Ecumenical Synod, Bishops should just stop repeating the anathemas listed in the Synodikon?

If a layman reads aloud the Synodicon of Orthodoxy in Church including all the anathemas therein, that layman is not issuing those anathemas.  He is not the originator of it.  He is merely making known the anathemas which were issued by the bishops of the Seventh Oecumenical Synod.

Offline SolEX01

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #70 on: April 12, 2013, 11:32:03 PM »
So a Bishop issuing an anathema is a one time event even if the same Bishop says that the restoration of icons is to be commemorated on the first Sunday of the Great Lent?  1,170 years after the Seventh Ecumenical Synod, Bishops should just stop repeating the anathemas listed in the Synodikon?

If a layman reads aloud the Synodicon of Orthodoxy in Church including all the anathemas therein, that layman is not issuing those anathemas.  He is not the originator of it.  He is merely making known the anathemas which were issued by the bishops of the Seventh Oecumenical Synod.

I can read the Synodikon for myself at home.  I just can't proclaim it during service.  Bishop can read entire Synodikon including anathemas.  There, problem solved.   :D

Offline Dionysii

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #71 on: April 12, 2013, 11:34:06 PM »

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #72 on: April 13, 2013, 03:05:52 AM »
On accusations of heresy, apostasy and conspiracy:

Your words:

Quote
In my opinion, this document is not well known by English speakers precisely to keep English speaking people from questioning their synods' compliance with what it says. The Synodicon of Orthodoxy was omitted from Bishop Kallistos Ware's English translation of the Triodion because it names and anathematizes heresies as well as names Saints who have followed the truth.  If parishioners knew and understood the implications of the contents of the Synodikon of Orthodoxy, then many synods would have a lot to explain.
[/size][/size]
Quote

I wonder what could possibly be the purpose of such rubrics if it were not to promote the ignorance of people who were not directly under the thumb of an apostate bishop who would keep his flock ignorant in the same manner as the bishops of the Franks.
Quote
If that is indeed all you have to go on, then I would say that the tradition of any Church which prohibits the reading of the Synodicon of Orthodoxy on the first Lord's day of Lent is a Church that uses a tradition which is an artificial fabrication and a lie.

To accuse Churches which make known and proclaim the Synodicon of Orthodoxy publicly aloud in Church even without a bishop as allegedly being in error is to falsely accuse without any precedent in Christian tradition except that which has been fabricated by heretics in modern times for their own convenience.


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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #73 on: April 13, 2013, 07:17:17 AM »
Everyone: If I'll notice one more cause of anyone in this thread calling another one poster or his synod "schismatic", "heretic" or using other ad hominems dots will fall. Go to the private section or return to substantive discussion.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 07:17:57 AM by Michał Kalina »
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Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #74 on: April 15, 2013, 01:36:35 AM »
Why does the Patriarch of Constantinople not do the synodikon with anathemas?  I am talking about in the phanar
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 01:36:45 AM by Gunnarr »
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Offline LBK

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #75 on: April 15, 2013, 01:53:24 AM »
Why does the Patriarch of Constantinople not do the synodikon with anathemas?  I am talking about in the phanar

Evidence for this?
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Offline Dionysii

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #76 on: April 16, 2013, 10:59:16 AM »
Why does the Patriarch of Constantinople not do the synodikon with anathemas?  I am talking about in the phanar

Evidence for this?
I have heard this as well, and you are quite right in wanting evidence for this.  I would like to see that myself.  It's interesting.


I asked my priest about the custom of requiring a bishop to read the 'Synodicon of Orthodoxy' on the first Lord's day of Lent, and he told me that it is a Russian custom that began after the time of Tsar Peter I which is very interesting.  I will look for information about the history of this.

I would be very interested to hear information about the origin of this particular custom. 

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #77 on: May 09, 2013, 05:31:01 PM »
Christ is risen!

In the Western Rite, in England, the practice was known of the priest proclaiming anathemas on the First Sunday in Lent. However, the service is of a rather different character in that the things anathematized are various serious moral crimes.

Really, until the Wycliffe phenomenon in the 14th (was it?) century, there was not in England any real organized intellectual dissidence to church teachings. So maybe that is why the emphasis was so different.

This has to do with Western Rite and should not be considered to apply at all to the Eastern Rite.

Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #78 on: May 10, 2013, 01:52:44 AM »
Why does the Patriarch of Constantinople not do the synodikon with anathemas?  I am talking about in the phanar

Evidence for this?

The recordings of the Triumph of Orthodox liturgies in the phanar, they did not do the anathemas. In fact, in the video I saw not only did they not proclaim the anathemas, you can see one of the "heretics" they would anathema in attendence! (breaking canons again, oops)

here is a recording, please tell me if you can find any of the synodikon... perhaps I missed it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yEBLxnao3c
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Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #79 on: May 10, 2013, 02:28:45 AM »
and another, from the 2013 one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sApN8XBxQUE

again, where is it?

perhaps I am missing it?
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Offline Dionysii

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Re: Synodikon of Orthodoxy
« Reply #80 on: June 29, 2013, 12:03:08 PM »
Quote from: Gunnarr
Why does the Patriarch of Constantinople not do the synodikon with anathemas?  I am talking about in the phanar
The recordings of the Triumph of Orthodox liturgies in the phanar, they did not do the anathemas.

here is a recording, please tell me if you can find any of the synodikon... perhaps I missed it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yEBLxnao3c
and another, from the 2013 one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sApN8XBxQUE
again, where is it?
perhaps I am missing it?

These posts and comments of yours are much appreciated.
Notwithstanding any forthcoming evidence to the contrary, it appears from what you have posted that the Patriarchate of Constantinople does not read the Synodicon of Orthodoxy publicly.  This comment was particularly interesting:
Quote from: Gunnarr
In fact, in the video I saw not only did they not proclaim the anathemas, you can see one of the "heretics" they would anathema in attendance!