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Author Topic: silly: Hummus is lenten?  (Read 5040 times) Average Rating: 0
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FatherGiryus
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« Reply #45 on: March 16, 2011, 02:55:35 PM »

Yes, I've heard that in some places where the weather is cooler that was done.  Same thing with 'hard cheese,' which requires a long, damp aging that isn't possible in the South.

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However, I was served hummus during fasts, and if you look at 'traditional' lenten recipes cooked outside of monasteries, you will see lots of eggs and butter.  Don't forget the peasants could not get their hens to stop laying during Lent, and peasants don't throw away food.  Same with milk, which had to be preserved quickly (i.e. butter and soft cheeses), which also were eaten.
It was common for my grandparents and the generations before-they had no refrigerators-to still save the eggs for Easter. They would keep them in a cool, dark place like a pantry, oftentimes covered in corn-flour. But eggs were not considered lenten. Not that I really care what someone eats, just as a random fact.
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« Reply #46 on: March 16, 2011, 03:56:05 PM »

I believe that the "why" of fasting is at least as important as the "what." I feel that the following guidance from the OCA site is germane:

A special word must be said about fasting during lent. Generally speaking, fasting is an essential element of the Christian Life. Christ fasted and taught men to fast. Blessed fasting is done in secret, without ostentation or accusation of others (Mt 6:16; Rom 14). It has as its goal the purification of our lives, the liberation of our souls and bodies from sin, the strengthening of our human powers of love for God and man, the enlightening of our entire being for communion with the Blessed Trinity.

The Orthodox rules for lenten fasting are the monastic rules. No meat is allowed after Meatfare Sunday, and no eggs or dairy products after Cheesefare Sunday. These rules exist not as a Pharisaic "burden too hard to bear" (Lk 11:46), but as an ideal to be striven for; not as an end in themselves, but as a means to spiritual perfection crowned in love. The lenten services themselves continually remind us of this.

    "Let us fast with a fast pleasing to the Lord. This is the true fast: the casting off of evil, the bridling of the tongue, the cutting off of anger, the cessation of lusts, evil talking, lies and cursing. The stopping of these is the fast true and acceptable." (Monday Vespers of the First Week)

The lenten services also make the undeniable point that we should not pride ourselves with external fasting since the devil also never eats!

The ascetic fast of Great Lent continues from Meatfare Sunday to Easter Sunday, and is broken only after the Paschal Divine Liturgy. Knowing the great effort to which they are called, Christians should make every effort to fast as well as they can, in secret, so that God would see and bless their openly with a holy life. Each person most do his best in the light of the given ideal." (my emphasis)

So, at least in the OCA, the burden is shifted to each individual believer. However, the rules are also important as they are the yardsticks that we must strive for, under the guidance of our spiritual fathers. I suppose to have a total fasting rule (dietary, prayer and alms giving) and to stick to it is much more important than to know the dietary fasting rules propagated by one's jurisdiction (and they are not uniform) or practiced by the circles that you are familiar with.
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« Reply #47 on: March 16, 2011, 04:47:03 PM »

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Don't forget the peasants could not get their hens to stop laying during Lent,

Strange. When I was growing up, the family chickens always stopped laying during Lent, much to my mother's frustration. Having to buy eggs for her Easter baking always bothered her ...  laugh
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« Reply #48 on: March 17, 2011, 12:22:24 AM »

I believe that the "why" of fasting is at least as important as the "what." I feel that the following guidance from the OCA site is germane:

A special word must be said about fasting during lent. Generally speaking, fasting is an essential element of the Christian Life. Christ fasted and taught men to fast. Blessed fasting is done in secret, without ostentation or accusation of others (Mt 6:16; Rom 14). It has as its goal the purification of our lives, the liberation of our souls and bodies from sin, the strengthening of our human powers of love for God and man, the enlightening of our entire being for communion with the Blessed Trinity.

The Orthodox rules for lenten fasting are the monastic rules. No meat is allowed after Meatfare Sunday, and no eggs or dairy products after Cheesefare Sunday. These rules exist not as a Pharisaic "burden too hard to bear" (Lk 11:46), but as an ideal to be striven for; not as an end in themselves, but as a means to spiritual perfection crowned in love. The lenten services themselves continually remind us of this.

    "Let us fast with a fast pleasing to the Lord. This is the true fast: the casting off of evil, the bridling of the tongue, the cutting off of anger, the cessation of lusts, evil talking, lies and cursing. The stopping of these is the fast true and acceptable." (Monday Vespers of the First Week)

The lenten services also make the undeniable point that we should not pride ourselves with external fasting since the devil also never eats!

The ascetic fast of Great Lent continues from Meatfare Sunday to Easter Sunday, and is broken only after the Paschal Divine Liturgy. Knowing the great effort to which they are called, Christians should make every effort to fast as well as they can, in secret, so that God would see and bless their openly with a holy life. Each person most do his best in the light of the given ideal." (my emphasis)

So, at least in the OCA, the burden is shifted to each individual believer. However, the rules are also important as they are the yardsticks that we must strive for, under the guidance of our spiritual fathers. I suppose to have a total fasting rule (dietary, prayer and alms giving) and to stick to it is much more important than to know the dietary fasting rules propagated by one's jurisdiction (and they are not uniform) or practiced by the circles that you are familiar with.

Thank you for this post. It is aligned to Father Giryus above and if there is consensus among Orthodox (which I believe is the case) it should be a sticky. Although I improve each year in following the rules (or intent of the rules) of the fast, I believe it is meant to train oneself combat the destructive addictions of life that are not related to food (or at least for me).

In any case, this post centers the issue on one's own life, making us reflect about ourselves, rather than the failings of others.
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« Reply #49 on: March 17, 2011, 01:35:28 AM »


Here is an appropriate passage from the Paradise of the Fathers which you can read here: http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA85&dq=paradise%20of%20the%20fathers%20immoderately&ei=HpyBTeefBpOssAO977DwAQ&ct=result&id=FiUYAAAAYAAJ&output=text

It is better to drink wine in moderation than to drink water immoderately, and it appeareth to me that those who drink wine in moderation are holy men, and that those who pridefully use water in an immoderate fashion are depraved and pleasure-loving. Do not therefore ascribe blame or praise to the eating [or not eating] of food, or to the drinking [or not drinking] of wine, but ascribe praise, or woe, unto those who make use properly or improperly of meat and drink. Joseph in olden time drank wine with the Egyptians, and was in no way injured in his mind thereby, for he took good heed unto [the admonitions of] his understanding; but Pythagoras, and Diogenes, and Plato, and with them also the Manichaeans, and other sects of philosophers [did not], and they came thereby to such a pitch of licentiousness and vainglory that they even forgot the God of the universe and worshipped soulless images. On the other hand, the blessed Apostle Peter and those who were with him drew nigh to wine and made use thereof, and because of this the Jews reproached our Lord, the Redeemer, of all [men] and their Teacher, and made complaints against Him, saying, "Why do not Thy disciples fast like John?" (St. Matthew ix, 14; St. Mark ii, 18.) And again they lifted themselves up (?) against the disciples and blamed them, saying, "Why doth your master eat and drink with tax-gatherers and "sinners?" (St. Matthew ix, 11; x, 18, 19.) Now they did not make their complaints about bread and water only, but also about wine and delicate viands, for it is evident that they only wanted to lay blame upon the disciples in everything.
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« Reply #50 on: March 17, 2011, 02:05:52 AM »

It's settled then: this thread is silly and hummus is lenten.  Smiley
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« Reply #51 on: March 17, 2011, 10:01:50 AM »

I'm not so sure the thread is silly. It prompted me to make my own hummus for the first time yesterday. So much better than store-bought! Of course, it was a bit of a bother, but that's normal the first time one makes anything. It will get easier with practice. I've already been imagining variations on the basic recipe. I found lots of recipes online and also took into account some of the ideas from this thread.
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« Reply #52 on: March 17, 2011, 10:06:25 AM »

I'm not so sure the thread is silly. It prompted me to make my own hummus for the first time yesterday. So much better than store-bought! Of course, it was a bit of a bother, but that's normal the first time one makes anything. It will get easier with practice. I've already been imagining variations on the basic recipe. I found lots of recipes online and also took into account some of the ideas from this thread.

Awesome! I bought hummus at the store for $6 a pound. This seemed high to me, but I'm cheap. Whenever I make my own, however, I"m usually disappointed. I'd love to know of anyone's successful hummus recipes--especially techniques--how to get it smooth. Thanks.
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« Reply #53 on: March 17, 2011, 10:15:10 AM »

I'm not so sure the thread is silly. It prompted me to make my own hummus for the first time yesterday. So much better than store-bought! Of course, it was a bit of a bother, but that's normal the first time one makes anything. It will get easier with practice. I've already been imagining variations on the basic recipe. I found lots of recipes online and also took into account some of the ideas from this thread.

Awesome! I bought hummus at the store for $6 a pound. This seemed high to me, but I'm cheap. Whenever I make my own, however, I"m usually disappointed. I'd love to know of anyone's successful hummus recipes--especially techniques--how to get it smooth. Thanks.
Mine was a little bit grainy, but not really much more than some commercially prepared stuff. I'm going to guess that texture could be largely the result of the cooking of the chickpeas - how long, hard vs soft water, etc. Yes, I cook my beans from dried. I doubt that the actual cost to me was over a dollar for at least a pound of hummus.
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« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2011, 10:20:32 AM »

I'm not so sure the thread is silly. It prompted me to make my own hummus for the first time yesterday. So much better than store-bought! Of course, it was a bit of a bother, but that's normal the first time one makes anything. It will get easier with practice. I've already been imagining variations on the basic recipe. I found lots of recipes online and also took into account some of the ideas from this thread.

Awesome! I bought hummus at the store for $6 a pound. This seemed high to me, but I'm cheap. Whenever I make my own, however, I"m usually disappointed. I'd love to know of anyone's successful hummus recipes--especially techniques--how to get it smooth. Thanks.

That is an obscene amount of money.
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« Reply #55 on: March 17, 2011, 10:26:51 AM »

I'm not so sure the thread is silly. It prompted me to make my own hummus for the first time yesterday. So much better than store-bought! Of course, it was a bit of a bother, but that's normal the first time one makes anything. It will get easier with practice. I've already been imagining variations on the basic recipe. I found lots of recipes online and also took into account some of the ideas from this thread.

Awesome! I bought hummus at the store for $6 a pound. This seemed high to me, but I'm cheap. Whenever I make my own, however, I"m usually disappointed. I'd love to know of anyone's successful hummus recipes--especially techniques--how to get it smooth. Thanks.
Mine was a little bit grainy, but not really much more than some commercially prepared stuff. I'm going to guess that texture could be largely the result of the cooking of the chickpeas - how long, hard vs soft water, etc. Yes, I cook my beans from dried. I doubt that the actual cost to me was over a dollar for at least a pound of hummus.

If you ain't using oil, that is going to affect the texture. I ain't one to buy many apparati, but a Vita-Mix will render pretty much whatever I want to whatever consistency I want. Pricey. But worth it, if just for when berries come into season and are inexpensive and I just drop them in with ice and 30 seconds later, deliciousness.

A good hand blender can do the job probably better for something like hummus (easier clean-up) if you ain't making tons of it.

There is a chef here, so maybe she has ideas.

If you skip the fattening aspects of the hummus, tahini and oil, then you will just have mashed chickpeas, which my folks call garbanzo beans.
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« Reply #56 on: March 17, 2011, 11:08:34 AM »

I forget half the time to add the olive oil, and since tahini contains quite a bit of sesame oil (which is the first oil processed by man I recall reading somewhere), it usually does the trick.  I did learn that the secret to making good Armenian hummus (versus the Levant varieties) is the addition of Vegeta.  I also had it one time with cummin.

Funny story: my daughters would not eat hummus due to the appearance, so I made it one time with a dash of red food coloring powder.  They ate double helpings.  The then-eight-year-old proclaimed, 'It tastes the same as the regular, but it is still better when it is pink.'

Now, this definitely isn't 'lenten': the Hummus Song on YouTube.
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« Reply #57 on: March 17, 2011, 11:10:18 AM »

To make smooth hummus, you'll wish to remove the skins from the cooked chickpeas.  This can be done with a food mill that forces the beans through a screen.  Otherwise you may squeeze on each bean to remove the skin by hand, prior to to mashing them.  The second method also encourages patience.  Removing the skins makes the beans more digestible as well.  
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« Reply #58 on: March 17, 2011, 11:15:35 AM »

To make smooth hummus, you'll wish to remove the skins from the cooked chickpeas.  This can be done with a food mill that forces the beans through a screen.  Otherwise you may squeeze on each bean to remove the skin by hand, prior to to mashing them.  The second method also encourages patience.  Removing the skins makes the beans more digestible as well.  

Welcome to forum.

That bolded suggestion certain would help develop the Lenten spirit!
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« Reply #59 on: March 17, 2011, 11:26:19 AM »

Since we have established that hummus is 'legal,' we can now move on to debating whether muhamara is also 'legal':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9oFLDnUCek
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc06zOTREKI&feature=related
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« Reply #60 on: March 17, 2011, 12:39:16 PM »

OH THAT SOUNDS SO GOOD.

I wish I didn't leave my pomegranate molasses at home before I got married...  Sad
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« Reply #61 on: March 17, 2011, 02:31:39 PM »

I believe that the "why" of fasting is at least as important as the "what." I feel that the following guidance from the OCA site is germane:

A special word must be said about fasting during lent. Generally speaking, fasting is an essential element of the Christian Life. Christ fasted and taught men to fast. Blessed fasting is done in secret, without ostentation or accusation of others (Mt 6:16; Rom 14). It has as its goal the purification of our lives, the liberation of our souls and bodies from sin, the strengthening of our human powers of love for God and man, the enlightening of our entire being for communion with the Blessed Trinity.

The Orthodox rules for lenten fasting are the monastic rules. No meat is allowed after Meatfare Sunday, and no eggs or dairy products after Cheesefare Sunday. These rules exist not as a Pharisaic "burden too hard to bear" (Lk 11:46), but as an ideal to be striven for; not as an end in themselves, but as a means to spiritual perfection crowned in love. The lenten services themselves continually remind us of this.

    "Let us fast with a fast pleasing to the Lord. This is the true fast: the casting off of evil, the bridling of the tongue, the cutting off of anger, the cessation of lusts, evil talking, lies and cursing. The stopping of these is the fast true and acceptable." (Monday Vespers of the First Week)

The lenten services also make the undeniable point that we should not pride ourselves with external fasting since the devil also never eats!

The ascetic fast of Great Lent continues from Meatfare Sunday to Easter Sunday, and is broken only after the Paschal Divine Liturgy. Knowing the great effort to which they are called, Christians should make every effort to fast as well as they can, in secret, so that God would see and bless their openly with a holy life. Each person most do his best in the light of the given ideal." (my emphasis)

So, at least in the OCA, the burden is shifted to each individual believer. However, the rules are also important as they are the yardsticks that we must strive for, under the guidance of our spiritual fathers. I suppose to have a total fasting rule (dietary, prayer and alms giving) and to stick to it is much more important than to know the dietary fasting rules propagated by one's jurisdiction (and they are not uniform) or practiced by the circles that you are familiar with.

That is the same approach that we have been taught over the years in my jurisdiction. There always were words to the effect at the beginning of the Fast that 'those of a sterner disposition are encouraged to follow the ancient and venerable rules of the monastic fast but.....' essentially the same as what you posted here.
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« Reply #62 on: March 17, 2011, 02:32:56 PM »

muhamara  Huh?
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FatherGiryus
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« Reply #63 on: March 17, 2011, 03:49:31 PM »

Oh, just watch the videos!    laugh

muhamara  Huh?
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