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Author Topic: New ROCOR Western-rite ordinations  (Read 2913 times) Average Rating: 0
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SubdeaconDavid
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« on: March 05, 2011, 06:55:55 AM »

By the grace of God, this Great Lent two new Russian Orthodox deacons of the Western-rite will be ordained to the diaconate of ROCOR's thriving North American Western-rite.  The news was announced by Byzantine-rite Hieromonk Adrian (Keller) himself a noted Western-rite liturgist and scholar and author of a number of works on the Sarum use of the Latin rite.  See : http://sarisburium.blogspot.com/  The good news was announced in a release by Fr. Anthony Bondi, Western-rite Pastoral Assistant to the First Hierarch of ROCOR in North America:


With the Blessing of Metropolitan Hilarion,

"Reader Polycarp Robert Sherwood will be ordained to the Diaconate this Wednesday and start a parish, St Mary the Virgin Orthodox Church. (Feast day August 15th) in Barrie, Ontario, Canada.

"Joseph Gagliano has been blessed for ordination to the Diaconate (date to be announced) and start a parish, Holy Mother of God Orthodox Church (Feast day- Tikhvin Icon- June 26th) in Maylene, Alabama, USA

"We ask your prayers for these our brothers as they assume the mantle of ministry, and for those whom they serve.

"Fr Anthony
"Pastoral Vicar for Western Rite"
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« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2011, 10:40:52 AM »

Parishes without priests? Or will they be ordained to priesthood somewhere in the future?

Any, Many Years to both of them!
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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2011, 11:32:58 AM »

Parishes without priests? Or will they be ordained to priesthood somewhere in the future?

Any, Many Years to both of them!

There are a lot of Orthodox in the US who would go to a WRO parish if one is available.  I don't know how many, but I've known a number in EO parishes.
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« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2011, 02:45:29 AM »

I am very happy that more people have embraced this rite of the faith.

I think that the Russian Church, may theoretically do a better job with their western rite than have the Antiochians. Fr. Aidan Keller's musical instincts seem to be to be among the best out there. Though his hymn translations are at times lacking, they are often based upon accuracy in translation more than fitting the right metre. The antiphons and responsories in english he made are nearly flawless. Though the synod of milan has done equally if not better work at times. The more churches than can use his Sarum Psalter, or milan's materials, the better.

The more western rite churches there are the less their are excuses for limited musical offerings. What the Antiochian Vicariate has is "OK" but it is not enough to sustain one who has been spiritually fed the the musical diet of the typical byzantine liturgy church.

Ideally they ought to use more of the plainchant gradual at these masses and improve their music.
Not to mention put it into modern notation for those too challenged to learn the older, simpler neumes.

http://musicasacra.com/books/plainchant_gradual_1-2.pdf

The St Ambrose Hymnal, the standard musical output of most antiochian WRO parishes, put together by Fr. Nicholas Alford and his wife (very good people) is hardly the ideal hymnal for western rite churches. Many of them are great hymns, but the melodies and spirit of much of it is I think too "protestant".

 I appreciate the work that went into it, and wouldn't wish to disappear entirely but I really dont think it should have the high position it does, more a coincidence of being in the right place at right time than that it is a credible example of historically accurate western rite music.

Quote
There are a lot of Orthodox in the US who would go to a WRO parish if one is available.

Quite true, however I have doubts that they are not going to stick to it unless the musical offering can be more mature and in line with historic western plainchant and or falso bourdon/2 to 3 part polyphony/organum.
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« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2011, 07:02:55 PM »

I am very happy that more people have embraced this rite of the faith.

I think that the Russian Church, may theoretically do a better job with their western rite than have the Antiochians. Fr. Aidan Keller's musical instincts seem to be to be among the best out there. Though his hymn translations are at times lacking, they are often based upon accuracy in translation more than fitting the right metre. The antiphons and responsories in english he made are nearly flawless. Though the synod of milan has done equally if not better work at times. The more churches than can use his Sarum Psalter, or milan's materials, the better.

Debatable.

Quote
The more western rite churches there are the less their are excuses for limited musical offerings. What the Antiochian Vicariate has is "OK" but it is not enough to sustain one who has been spiritually fed the the musical diet of the typical byzantine liturgy church.

Sure it is.

Quote
Ideally they ought to use more of the plainchant gradual at these masses and improve their music.

We'll try to get things up to your standards.

Quote
Not to mention put it into modern notation for those too challenged to learn the older, simpler neumes.

Actually, the neumes are easier to learn for non-music trained people.

Quote
The St Ambrose Hymnal, the standard musical output of most antiochian WRO parishes, put together by Fr. Nicholas Alford and his wife (very good people) is hardly the ideal hymnal for western rite churches. Many of them are great hymns, but the melodies and spirit of much of it is I think too "protestant".

I'm racking my brain trying to figure out how a melody could be Protestant. Wink

At any rate, it's just a simple fact that these hymns are much more meaningful and beautiful to many of those who use them, than any other musical options they might want to seek out. Truth is truth, beauty is beauty and it all belongs to the bosom of the Church. You might not like where it came from because of who or what it might be associated with, but cultural and pastoral reasons do (and always should) trump that.

Quote
I appreciate the work that went into it, and wouldn't wish to disappear entirely but I really dont think it should have the high position it does, more a coincidence of being in the right place at right time than that it is a credible example of historically accurate western rite music.

This "high" position likely varies from parish to parish, but if it achieved any sort of preference, it was definitely a bottom-up thing, and not something imposed from the top. In other words, it must be doing a damn fine job and suit the needs of the people if this is really the case.

I've talked with a lot of different people that came through the doors of our Western Rite parish, who had many hang-ups, and I can tell you flat out that none of them had to do with the fact that we were singing one set of hymns over another. Smiley It's just not that important to some people. Our hymnography does not have the same place or role as that of the Eastern Rite. In fact, most of their hang-ups had to do with things that would've been perhaps even more glaring if they went to an Eastern Rite parish, such as the invocation of Mary and the veneration of icons.

Quote
Quote
There are a lot of Orthodox in the US who would go to a WRO parish if one is available.

Quite true, however I have doubts that they are not going to stick to it unless the musical offering can be more mature and in line with historic western plainchant and or falso bourdon/2 to 3 part polyphony/organum.

Your doubts don't really seem to be based on anything, unless you've had tons of encounters with people for whom this was a huge hurdle. Honestly, this just hasn't come up in my WRO parish, which has been around for almost 20 years now...
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« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2011, 04:32:32 PM »

Quote
In fact, most of their hang-ups had to do with things that would've been perhaps even more glaring if they went to an Eastern Rite parish, such as the invocation of Mary and the veneration of icons.

I would hope that non-Orthodox coming to a Western-rite Orthodox church would see people venerating icons of the Mother of God and the saints of the day, lighting candles and hearing prayers to the most holy Mother of God, which are after all also part of the Latin tradition of Western Orthodoxy. 

The fullness of the faith of Orthodoxy is to be proclaimed and lived not dumbed down so as not to offend heterodox people who may have had no contact with the Orthodox faith.
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« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2011, 04:40:29 PM »

Axios!  This, in my humble opinion, is a move in the right direction.  I hope more Western Rite parishes will spring up in the future. 
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« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2011, 11:17:44 PM »

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In fact, most of their hang-ups had to do with things that would've been perhaps even more glaring if they went to an Eastern Rite parish, such as the invocation of Mary and the veneration of icons.

I would hope that non-Orthodox coming to a Western-rite Orthodox church would see people venerating icons of the Mother of God and the saints of the day, lighting candles and hearing prayers to the most holy Mother of God, which are after all also part of the Latin tradition of Western Orthodoxy. 

The fullness of the faith of Orthodoxy is to be proclaimed and lived not dumbed down so as not to offend heterodox people who may have had no contact with the Orthodox faith.

Did I imply otherwise, Subdeacon?
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« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2011, 04:55:27 AM »

Quote
In fact, most of their hang-ups had to do with things that would've been perhaps even more glaring if they went to an Eastern Rite parish, such as the invocation of Mary and the veneration of icons.

I would hope that non-Orthodox coming to a Western-rite Orthodox church would see people venerating icons of the Mother of God and the saints of the day, lighting candles and hearing prayers to the most holy Mother of God, which are after all also part of the Latin tradition of Western Orthodoxy. 

The fullness of the faith of Orthodoxy is to be proclaimed and lived not dumbed down so as not to offend heterodox people who may have had no contact with the Orthodox faith.

Did I imply otherwise, Subdeacon?
No you did not Sleeper.  I was not imp;lying that you were.  Western Latin Orthodoxy has a wonderful tradition of veneration of the Mother of God, and I was only saying that I hope that the Western-rite wherever it is (ROCOR/AWRV) will honour Our Lady in accordance with their own venerable traditions.

Given that Western-rite Orthodox churches permit Eastern Orthodox to communicate and worship with them, I am interested to know do western-rite Orthodox churches always have Eastern style icons and candle stands for the faithful to venerate and light a candle? What is the position in regard to Western style images whether iconographic or statues?
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« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2011, 06:09:21 PM »

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In fact, most of their hang-ups had to do with things that would've been perhaps even more glaring if they went to an Eastern Rite parish, such as the invocation of Mary and the veneration of icons.

I would hope that non-Orthodox coming to a Western-rite Orthodox church would see people venerating icons of the Mother of God and the saints of the day, lighting candles and hearing prayers to the most holy Mother of God, which are after all also part of the Latin tradition of Western Orthodoxy. 

The fullness of the faith of Orthodoxy is to be proclaimed and lived not dumbed down so as not to offend heterodox people who may have had no contact with the Orthodox faith.

Did I imply otherwise, Subdeacon?
No you did not Sleeper.  I was not imp;lying that you were.  Western Latin Orthodoxy has a wonderful tradition of veneration of the Mother of God, and I was only saying that I hope that the Western-rite wherever it is (ROCOR/AWRV) will honour Our Lady in accordance with their own venerable traditions.

Given that Western-rite Orthodox churches permit Eastern Orthodox to communicate and worship with them, I am interested to know do western-rite Orthodox churches always have Eastern style icons and candle stands for the faithful to venerate and light a candle? What is the position in regard to Western style images whether iconographic or statues?

Worry not. Smiley We honor the Blessed Virgin Mary in prayer and hymn in every single one of our services, along with all the saints.

Each church is going to be different, and some are more fortunate than others to have talented iconographers who can create "Western" icons for the parish, but if that's not the case, then yes, we definitely utilize Eastern-style icons for veneration, with candles for lighting. Many of the icons in my parish were donated to us by the local Greek parish, but we're also very lucky to have original icons of St. Benedict of Nursia and St. Theodore of Canterbury that you could comfortably classify as "Western icons" though they are definitely not a typical Western "art" style that you'd see more of in a Roman Catholic Church. You'd take one look at it and immediately know it's a traditional-style icon.

As far as statues go, I know some like to say that they have no place in Orthodox worship, but history and archeology show that to be patently false. According to tradition, Saint Veronica, whom the Lord Jesus healed in the Gospel of Matthew, made a statue of Christ which she offered prayers to God before. This statue was reportedly preserved until the time of Julian the Apostate, in the 4th century, and there is a long tradition of statues from Constantinople all the way to Scotland, all throughout the first 1000 years of Church history.

It's easy to forget that "icon" merely means "image" and this includes three-dimensional ones. That being said, statues and sculptures tend to be more expensive than icons, so I don't know how frequently you'll find them.
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« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2011, 06:41:16 PM »

Quote
In fact, most of their hang-ups had to do with things that would've been perhaps even more glaring if they went to an Eastern Rite parish, such as the invocation of Mary and the veneration of icons.

I would hope that non-Orthodox coming to a Western-rite Orthodox church would see people venerating icons of the Mother of God and the saints of the day, lighting candles and hearing prayers to the most holy Mother of God, which are after all also part of the Latin tradition of Western Orthodoxy. 

The fullness of the faith of Orthodoxy is to be proclaimed and lived not dumbed down so as not to offend heterodox people who may have had no contact with the Orthodox faith.

Did I imply otherwise, Subdeacon?
No you did not Sleeper.  I was not imp;lying that you were.  Western Latin Orthodoxy has a wonderful tradition of veneration of the Mother of God, and I was only saying that I hope that the Western-rite wherever it is (ROCOR/AWRV) will honour Our Lady in accordance with their own venerable traditions.

Given that Western-rite Orthodox churches permit Eastern Orthodox to communicate and worship with them, I am interested to know do western-rite Orthodox churches always have Eastern style icons and candle stands for the faithful to venerate and light a candle? What is the position in regard to Western style images whether iconographic or statues?
They don't have them for the Eastern visitors. Every church the Vatican has has them, why wouldn't the WRO have them for their own use?
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« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2011, 07:02:44 PM »

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In fact, most of their hang-ups had to do with things that would've been perhaps even more glaring if they went to an Eastern Rite parish, such as the invocation of Mary and the veneration of icons.

I would hope that non-Orthodox coming to a Western-rite Orthodox church would see people venerating icons of the Mother of God and the saints of the day, lighting candles and hearing prayers to the most holy Mother of God, which are after all also part of the Latin tradition of Western Orthodoxy. 

The fullness of the faith of Orthodoxy is to be proclaimed and lived not dumbed down so as not to offend heterodox people who may have had no contact with the Orthodox faith.

Did I imply otherwise, Subdeacon?
No you did not Sleeper.  I was not imp;lying that you were.  Western Latin Orthodoxy has a wonderful tradition of veneration of the Mother of God, and I was only saying that I hope that the Western-rite wherever it is (ROCOR/AWRV) will honour Our Lady in accordance with their own venerable traditions.

Given that Western-rite Orthodox churches permit Eastern Orthodox to communicate and worship with them, I am interested to know do western-rite Orthodox churches always have Eastern style icons and candle stands for the faithful to venerate and light a candle? What is the position in regard to Western style images whether iconographic or statues?
They don't have them for the Eastern visitors. Every church the Vatican has has them, why wouldn't the WRO have them for their own use?

Quite a new phenomenon (apart from the Perpetual Succour.)

 I recall being in Paris in the mid 70s and, hey bingo, Vatican II suddenly hit the religious artifact shops with a vengeance.  Statues were out in the cold, eastern style icons were in.  Catholic shops were awash with icons from floor to ceiling.
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« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2011, 07:44:30 PM »

Quote
In fact, most of their hang-ups had to do with things that would've been perhaps even more glaring if they went to an Eastern Rite parish, such as the invocation of Mary and the veneration of icons.

I would hope that non-Orthodox coming to a Western-rite Orthodox church would see people venerating icons of the Mother of God and the saints of the day, lighting candles and hearing prayers to the most holy Mother of God, which are after all also part of the Latin tradition of Western Orthodoxy. 

The fullness of the faith of Orthodoxy is to be proclaimed and lived not dumbed down so as not to offend heterodox people who may have had no contact with the Orthodox faith.

Did I imply otherwise, Subdeacon?
No you did not Sleeper.  I was not imp;lying that you were.  Western Latin Orthodoxy has a wonderful tradition of veneration of the Mother of God, and I was only saying that I hope that the Western-rite wherever it is (ROCOR/AWRV) will honour Our Lady in accordance with their own venerable traditions.

Given that Western-rite Orthodox churches permit Eastern Orthodox to communicate and worship with them, I am interested to know do western-rite Orthodox churches always have Eastern style icons and candle stands for the faithful to venerate and light a candle? What is the position in regard to Western style images whether iconographic or statues?
They don't have them for the Eastern visitors. Every church the Vatican has has them, why wouldn't the WRO have them for their own use?

Quite a new phenomenon (apart from the Perpetual Succour.)

 I recall being in Paris in the mid 70s and, hey bingo, Vatican II suddenly hit the religious artifact shops with a vengeance.  Statues were out in the cold, eastern style icons were in.  Catholic shops were awash with icons from floor to ceiling.
I was refering to the candle stands, Father. What they are before is a different matter: the latest fad with Eastern icons is recent, but the Latin Poles have had candle stands to the black Madonna from way back (Chicago is the second city of Poland). 2 dimensional Western art for veneration isn't rare either: a couple years ago my sons and I saw a lot sent here from the King of France (can't say I cared much for it, but then I'm Eastern).  And of course, the Mexicans have Guadalupe.
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« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2012, 10:27:26 PM »

I was intrigued to find a WR parish in McCalla, AL which is much closer to me than the one in Hanceville, AL.  But when I looked up the McCalla parish it appears it has switched to the "True Orthodox Church"?  Apparently an Old Calendarist jurisdiction?  http://www.orthodoxmetropolia.org/2011/11/congradulation-on-new-priest.html

I'm dumbfounded that the Deacon was ordained in March 2011 and then switched from ROCOR to the TOC *and* was ordained to the priesthood within six months!
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« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2012, 12:29:41 AM »

I was intrigued to find a WR parish in McCalla, AL which is much closer to me than the one in Hanceville, AL.  But when I looked up the McCalla parish it appears it has switched to the "True Orthodox Church"?  Apparently an Old Calendarist jurisdiction?  http://www.orthodoxmetropolia.org/2011/11/congradulation-on-new-priest.html

I'm dumbfounded that the Deacon was ordained in March 2011 and then switched from ROCOR to the TOC *and* was ordained to the priesthood within six months!

"Fr. Joseph was originally baptised in World Orthodox (the OCA), but after several year he left World Orthodoxy as a layman in search of True Orthodoxy."  laugh

And he was ordained to priesthood within days of being accepted into their church.
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« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2012, 12:51:16 AM »

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He was Chrismated through the Order of the Reception of Heretic/Schismatics.

A True Orthodox Church which doesn't baptize all converts?! Is Ecumenism!
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« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2012, 01:09:46 AM »

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He was Chrismated through the Order of the Reception of Heretic/Schismatics.

A True Orthodox Church which doesn't baptize all converts?! Is Ecumenism!

Most True Orthodox jurisdictions do not re-baptize those who have received baptism through Worldwide Orthodox jurisdiction such as the EP, MP, Antiochian, or OCA parish. Those people are typically chrismated.

However, non-Christians, Christians from non-Orthodox parishes, such as Roman Catholics and Protestant Churches, or Christians who were only received by Chrismation into Worldwide Orthodox Churches are baptized after a lengthy catechumenate. They are considered to have never been baptized.
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« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2012, 01:54:37 AM »

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He was Chrismated through the Order of the Reception of Heretic/Schismatics.

A True Orthodox Church which doesn't baptize all converts?! Is Ecumenism!

Most True Orthodox jurisdictions do not re-baptize those who have received baptism through Worldwide Orthodox jurisdiction such as the EP, MP, Antiochian, or OCA parish. Those people are typically chrismated.

Why is that? If we are heretics, why we aren't re-baptized?

I mean, of course I'm happy that most Old Calendarists take more irenic approach than I thought but it does seem a bit illogical.
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« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2012, 04:03:49 PM »

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He was Chrismated through the Order of the Reception of Heretic/Schismatics.

A True Orthodox Church which doesn't baptize all converts?! Is Ecumenism!

Most True Orthodox jurisdictions do not re-baptize those who have received baptism through Worldwide Orthodox jurisdiction such as the EP, MP, Antiochian, or OCA parish. Those people are typically chrismated.

Why is that? If we are heretics, why we aren't re-baptized?

I mean, of course I'm happy that most Old Calendarists take more irenic approach than I thought but it does seem a bit illogical.


A Greek Orthodox Priest (GOARCH) told me that if an apostacized Orthodox Christian who embraced Islam wants to return to Christ, then he will be asked to return to his former mosque and confess his new found faith in Christ our God. Surely, this might mean his ultimate death. Anyway, if he survives this test by fire, then he will be chrismated after undergoing penance for at least one year. This is also true for those returning Orthodox Christians who have renounced Christ to join the Jews, the Mormons, Islam, Buddhism, etc. Apparently, they all are received back by chrismation.

I found this practice to be quite strict as many who apostate are unstable and stuffer from many psychotic breaks where they find themselves joining the Catholics, Protestants, Jews, the Mormons, Islam, Buddhism, etc. within in one year. Apparently, they get an adrenaline high from all the attention they receive.

Do all priests and bishops in Worldwide Orthodoxy follow the above practices in chrismating returning apostate Orthodox Christians? From what I have been told, those Orthodox Christians who have joined HOCNA or Bishop Gregory's group in Buena Vista, Colorado, and who seek to return are usually chrismated after a one year catechumenate. Both HOCNA and Bishop Gregory's group are on the fringe of the Old Calendarist groups as they are very cultic, have completely isolated themselves, and view themselves to be the only True Orthodox Church.

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« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2012, 04:07:33 PM »

and view themselves to be the only True Orthodox Church.

lol
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« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2012, 04:13:10 PM »

Quote
He was Chrismated through the Order of the Reception of Heretic/Schismatics.

A True Orthodox Church which doesn't baptize all converts?! Is Ecumenism!

Most True Orthodox jurisdictions do not re-baptize those who have received baptism through Worldwide Orthodox jurisdiction such as the EP, MP, Antiochian, or OCA parish. Those people are typically chrismated.

Why is that? If we are heretics, why we aren't re-baptized?

I mean, of course I'm happy that most Old Calendarists take more irenic approach than I thought but it does seem a bit illogical.

Ah, there is one catch.

If a Protestant or Roman Catholic were to be received through Chrismation into a Worldwide Orthodox jurisdiction such as the EP, MP, Antiochian, or OCA, and if those persons then asked to be received into a True Orthodox jurisdiction, then they would be received by baptism after spending time as a catechumenate. With the large number of convert Priests in Worldwide Orthodoxy who are being chrismated into Orthodoxy, if one of these were to ask for a canonical release to join a True Orthodox jurisdiction, they would likely be baptized and then chrismated before being considered for Holy Orders. It most likely would not be an automatic procedure of simply vesting them.

Sheesh. What would happen if a former OCA bishop who was originally received by chrismation into the Orthodox Church, were to join an Old Calendarist jurisdiction? Note: Just asking a very far-fetched hypothetical question.
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« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2012, 04:36:21 PM »

Am I the only one that finds the terms "Worldwide Orthodoxy" and "True Orthodoxy" amusing? Before this thread I'd never heard of them...
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« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2012, 04:51:13 PM »

Am I the only one that finds the terms "Worldwide Orthodoxy" and "True Orthodoxy" amusing? Before this thread I'd never heard of them...

The current webmaster and one of the three founders of OC.net is a member of HOTCA, which is one of the True Orthodox jurisdictions. Thus, this site is unique in that members of the Roman Catholic Church, Oriental Orthodox, Worldwide Orthodox, and True Orthodox can come together and discuss things.

Since members of the "canonical" Orthodox jurisdictions found the phrase "World Orthodoxy" to be disparaging, it was decided in a private forum here by both members and mods that Worldwide Orthodoxy would be a better phrase as it is truly worldwide.
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« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2012, 05:07:23 PM »

Both HOCNA and Bishop Gregory's group are on the fringe of the Old Calendarist groups as they are very cultic, have completely isolated themselves, and view themselves to be the only True Orthodox Church.

HOCNA is not in the same cultic fringe category that Bp. Gregory's synod is in, and they do not find themselves to be the only True Orthodox Church. While I haven't been able to find the document anymore as HOCNA has switched to a new website, they allow for laymen of other TOC synods to commune in HOCNA parishes as long as the laymen's bishop and Met. Ephraim both recognize each other as being TOC bishops. And if you read the HOCNA article "Economia in Church History" you'll reach the same conclusion that they do not view themselves as being the only sole True Orthodox Church. I have a great respect for Met. Ephraim after reading many of his articles and encylicals, the only questionable one being his "Awake, Sleeper" articles.
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« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2012, 05:14:49 PM »

Both HOCNA and Bishop Gregory's group are on the fringe of the Old Calendarist groups as they are very cultic, have completely isolated themselves, and view themselves to be the only True Orthodox Church.

HOCNA is not in the same cultic fringe category that Bp. Gregory's synod is in, and they do not find themselves to be the only True Orthodox Church. While I haven't been able to find the document anymore as HOCNA has switched to a new website, they allow for laymen of other TOC synods to commune in HOCNA parishes as long as the laymen's bishop and Met. Ephraim both recognize each other as being TOC bishops. And if you read the HOCNA article "Economia in Church History" you'll reach the same conclusion that they do not view themselves as being the only sole True Orthodox Church. I have a great respect for Met. Ephraim after reading many of his articles and encylicals, the only questionable one being his "Awake, Sleeper" articles.

Their new website is at HOMB. And you have the right to question the "Awake Sleeper" articles as they are heretical because they teach Universal Salvation. That with the "Name-Worshipping Heresy" are the reasons why few non-HOCNA Orthodox will go to them for communion anymore. Almost all the Canadian parishes of HOCNA save one have recently joined HOTCA, leaving HOCNA with fewer parishioners and parishes.
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« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2012, 05:22:05 PM »

Searn,

We have really gone off topic, but that was because the Western Rite Priest went Old Calendarist.

Since you are in the same Old Calendarist WRO jurisdiction as the priest mentioned in the OP, what Liturgy do you celebrate and are you in his parish?
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« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2012, 05:59:25 PM »

Searn,

We have really gone off topic, but that was because the Western Rite Priest went Old Calendarist.

Since you are in the same Old Calendarist WRO jurisdiction as the priest mentioned in the OP, what Liturgy do you celebrate and are you in his parish?

No, I go to a mission parish that celebrates according to the eastern rite, and if I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure the Fr. Joseph's parish in Alabama is in the process of switching to the eastern rite.
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« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2012, 06:07:06 PM »

Searn,

We have really gone off topic, but that was because the Western Rite Priest went Old Calendarist.

Since you are in the same Old Calendarist WRO jurisdiction as the priest mentioned in the OP, what Liturgy do you celebrate and are you in his parish?

No, I go to a mission parish that celebrates according to the eastern rite, and if I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure the Fr. Joseph's parish in Alabama is in the process of switching to the eastern rite.

WOW. Has your mission always been Eastern Rite?
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« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2012, 06:15:53 PM »

Searn,

We have really gone off topic, but that was because the Western Rite Priest went Old Calendarist.

Since you are in the same Old Calendarist WRO jurisdiction as the priest mentioned in the OP, what Liturgy do you celebrate and are you in his parish?

No, I go to a mission parish that celebrates according to the eastern rite, and if I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure the Fr. Joseph's parish in Alabama is in the process of switching to the eastern rite.

Any particular reason the parish is switching rites?
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« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2012, 06:20:28 PM »

Searn,

We have really gone off topic, but that was because the Western Rite Priest went Old Calendarist.

Since you are in the same Old Calendarist WRO jurisdiction as the priest mentioned in the OP, what Liturgy do you celebrate and are you in his parish?

No, I go to a mission parish that celebrates according to the eastern rite, and if I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure the Fr. Joseph's parish in Alabama is in the process of switching to the eastern rite.

WOW. Has your mission always been Eastern Rite?

Yea we've always been eastern rite, but we've only been in our Metropolia for a little under 2 years. I'm not sure what the exact ratio is but our Metropolia includes both eastern & western rite parishes.
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« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2012, 06:32:08 PM »

Searn,

We have really gone off topic, but that was because the Western Rite Priest went Old Calendarist.

Since you are in the same Old Calendarist WRO jurisdiction as the priest mentioned in the OP, what Liturgy do you celeebrate and are you in his parish?

No, I go to a mission parish that celebrates according to the eastern rite, and if I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure the Fr. Joseph's parish in Alabama is in the process of switching to the eastern rite.

Any particular reason the parish is switching rites?

To be honest I'm not exactly sure what the reasons are.
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« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2012, 08:30:23 PM »

Searn,

We have really gone off topic, but that was because the Western Rite Priest went Old Calendarist.

Since you are in the same Old Calendarist WRO jurisdiction as the priest mentioned in the OP, what Liturgy do you celeebrate and are you in his parish?

No, I go to a mission parish that celebrates according to the eastern rite, and if I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure the Fr. Joseph's parish in Alabama is in the process of switching to the eastern rite.

Any particular reason the parish is switching rites?

To be honest I'm not exactly sure what the reasons are.

Searn, out of curiosity, is your jurisdiction tied to the Greek Old Calendarists or Russians?
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« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2012, 08:59:29 PM »

Searn,

We have really gone off topic, but that was because the Western Rite Priest went Old Calendarist.

Since you are in the same Old Calendarist WRO jurisdiction as the priest mentioned in the OP, what Liturgy do you celeebrate and are you in his parish?

No, I go to a mission parish that celebrates according to the eastern rite, and if I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure the Fr. Joseph's parish in Alabama is in the process of switching to the eastern rite.

Any particular reason the parish is switching rites?

To be honest I'm not exactly sure what the reasons are.

Searn, out of curiosity, is your jurisdiction tied to the Greek Old Calendarists or Russians?

Our jurisdiction was granted autonomy by the synod which was commonly referred to as the "Milan Synod," and the Milan Synod was granted autonomy by the Greek Old Calendarists. Presently we're in communion with a Greek Old Calendarist & a Russian Catacomb synod.
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