Author Topic: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?  (Read 3109 times)

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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« on: March 04, 2011, 03:42:47 PM »
I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek. 

The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:

Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped

S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.

Greeks ended up with iesus

To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?).  So we had a J.

Today we have "Jesus".  Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English?
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2011, 04:01:26 PM »
I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek. 

The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:

Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped

S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.

Greeks ended up with iesus

To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?).  So we had a J.

Today we have "Jesus".  Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English?

Not much of a philologist? Not that your point is without merit, but before you start giving lessons on language, at least make sure you are not talking about things you obviously know nothing about.

Why not learn learn Hebrew and Greek? What would the advantage be in pronouncing the Son of God's Name the way you suggest over how most English speakers do?
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2011, 04:14:27 PM »
I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek. 

The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:

Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped

S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.

Greeks ended up with iesus

To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?).  So we had a J.

Today we have "Jesus".  Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English?

Not much of a philologist? Not that your point is without merit, but before you start giving lessons on language, at least make sure you are not talking about things you obviously know nothing about.

Why not learn learn Hebrew and Greek? What would the advantage be in pronouncing the Son of God's Name the way you suggest over how most English speakers do?

That's the beauty of the internet.  You can email scholars in language.  This came from Joseph Bahner who teaches ancient Hebrew to Jews in Israel.  He's a professor.   No I am not a philologist. 

I just simply don't understand why we don't "root back" to the original pronunciation of our savior's name.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2011, 04:33:04 PM »
Most of us don't speak Aramaic (I do).
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2011, 04:34:32 PM »
Most of us don't speak Aramaic (I do).

Something I wanted to ask you on another thread that slipped away. I suppose you can "speak" ASL. Do you and your son sign in any other languages?
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2011, 04:52:41 PM »
Most of us don't speak Aramaic (I do).

Something I wanted to ask you on another thread that slipped away. I suppose you can "speak" ASL. Do you and your son sign in any other languages?
Actually, my son doesn't sign.  Between my teaching him to look at me pronounce a word (used to that from teaching language), and him compensating, by the time he was diagnosed with the hearing problem, he had already mainstreamed himself. All we did was get a hearing aid for his one ear (the other wouldn't be helped), and speech therapists.  My autistic nephew, however, does sign.
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Offline Jason.Wike

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2011, 04:54:30 PM »
The adding on of it -s at the end has to do with it being the nominative case, which English doesn't inflect for anymore, but in most European languages used to be -us, -os or -az.

English has pretty much lost all the rules about how things should be Anglicized so there really isn't any linguistic argument against using "Yeshua" (other languages have problems like they can't say "y," Scottish Gaelic has the problem that you can't have e (considered a slender vowel) and u (a broad vowel) around a consonant so they couldn't do that).

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2011, 05:10:53 PM »
The adding on of it -s at the end has to do with it being the nominative case, which English doesn't inflect for anymore, but in most European languages used to be -us, -os or -az.

English has pretty much lost all the rules about how things should be Anglicized so there really isn't any linguistic argument against using "Yeshua" (other languages have problems like they can't say "y," Scottish Gaelic has the problem that you can't have e (considered a slender vowel) and u (a broad vowel) around a consonant so they couldn't do that).

Not to nerd out too much, but the rare case when a noun in the singular might have been declined in the history of the English language, Jesus would not have been.

The "s" is from the declension in both Latin and Greek and just carried over into English.

As for no "rules" on Anglicizing, the rule is to follow the majority. Using Yeshua has no point in use in the English language outside of nerd talk other than to possibly draw attention to one's self.
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Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2011, 05:29:52 PM »
I just simply don't understand why we don't "root back" to the original pronunciation of our savior's name.

Because (most of us) are English-speakers and not Aramaic speakers.

Languages change, also. Think about reading Chaucer. I'm not sure I would even recognize it as English, if I got into my trusty time machine and was able to hear someone actually speaking it as it was spoken in his day?

(Some of the more erudite can instruct me - do we even know how His name was pronounced in the Aramaic of the period?)
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Offline MyMapleStory

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2011, 06:17:15 PM »
If the name was to be absolutely kept as it sounds the apostles would not have translated it as Iesous in the greek, therefore what is wrong with saying Jesus since Iesous is just as different than Yeshua. I have nothing against the name Yeshua, it was how Christ was called by His mother (most likely), but we don't need to say it any more than we have to call Joseph, Yoseph.

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2011, 06:56:37 PM »
It's not how His name is said that's important, knowing and understanding who He is, is.

Quote
Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma

Wha-?! Where did you get that idea? The Greek alphabet ends at omega. Gamma is the third letter of the Greek alphabet. There is no y sound (as in yellow) in Greek, so the approximation is ia, ie, io, etc, depending on the vowel which follows the y.
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Online Justin Kissel

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2011, 06:58:12 PM »
With all the merchandise and whatnot with Jesus on it, there's no way we can switch now. Do you realise how much money people would lose!?

Offline vamrat

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2011, 07:19:59 PM »

Quote
Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma

Wha-?! Where did you get that idea? The Greek alphabet ends at omega. Gamma is the third letter of the Greek alphabet. There is no y sound (as in yellow) in Greek, so the approximation is ia, ie, io, etc, depending on the vowel which follows the y.

Better question - why would it matter what the Greek alphabet ended with as far as letter changing?  There is neither an omega nor a gamma in our Lord's name.  The argument is non sequitur.  It's like saying Vamrat used to be Yamrat but was changed to Vamrat because the English alphabet almost ends in Y.  Why does it matter what position the letter used in the name is in the alphabet?  Perhaps there is a major point I am missing.
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Offline Tzimis

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2011, 07:54:25 PM »
 YHWH I believe is translated to Kyrios and Theos in the LXX. It usually is translated into Lord in English as far as I know.
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Offline Papist

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2011, 08:28:50 PM »
I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek. 

The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:

Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped

S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.

Greeks ended up with iesus

To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?).  So we had a J.

Today we have "Jesus".  Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English?

Not much of a philologist? Not that your point is without merit, but before you start giving lessons on language, at least make sure you are not talking about things you obviously know nothing about.

Why not learn learn Hebrew and Greek? What would the advantage be in pronouncing the Son of God's Name the way you suggest over how most English speakers do?
Why are you always so abrasive?
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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2011, 08:36:38 PM »
I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek. 

The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:

Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped

S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.

Greeks ended up with iesus

To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?).  So we had a J.

Today we have "Jesus".  Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English?

Not much of a philologist? Not that your point is without merit, but before you start giving lessons on language, at least make sure you are not talking about things you obviously know nothing about.

Why not learn learn Hebrew and Greek? What would the advantage be in pronouncing the Son of God's Name the way you suggest over how most English speakers do?
Why are you always so abrasive?

I don't know, the "Old English" thing is pretty heinous.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2011, 08:38:28 PM »
With all the merchandise and whatnot with Jesus on it, there's no way we can switch now. Do you realise how much money people would lose!?

Uh, you actually make more money when you get to sell it all over again to the same people. Think of "Yeshua" as the extended edition Blu-Ray in the realm of Jesus merchandise:

"Yeshua is my homeboy."

"Yeshua loves my tattoos."

"The Passion of the Meshiach."

To weigh in, I think that people prefer these other titles as they are more exotic and let you make Jesus something besides what he is typically viewed as in mainstream American culture.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 08:39:20 PM by Alveus Lacuna »

Offline Cognomen

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2011, 09:03:27 PM »
I don't know, the "Old English" thing is pretty heinous.

At the least, egregious.

Uh, you actually make more money when you get to sell it all over again to the same people. Think of "Yeshua" as the extended edition Blu-Ray in the realm of Jesus merchandise:

"Yeshua is my homeboy."

"Yeshua loves my tattoos."

"The Passion of the Meshiach."

Ahh, and the "WWYD?" merchandise alone.  $£$£$£
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2011, 09:17:53 PM »
I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek. 

The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:

Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped

S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.

Greeks ended up with iesus

To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?).  So we had a J.

Today we have "Jesus".  Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English?

Not much of a philologist? Not that your point is without merit, but before you start giving lessons on language, at least make sure you are not talking about things you obviously know nothing about.

Why not learn learn Hebrew and Greek? What would the advantage be in pronouncing the Son of God's Name the way you suggest over how most English speakers do?
Why are you always so abrasive?
I concur
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2011, 09:23:33 PM »
Why are you always so abrasive?

I like it abrasive.

Offline Shiny

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2011, 09:25:52 PM »
Why are you always so abrasive?

I like it abrasive.
..and your wife?

I kid.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2011, 12:10:52 AM »
I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek. 

The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:

Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped

S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.

Greeks ended up with iesus

To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?).  So we had a J.

Today we have "Jesus".  Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English?

Not much of a philologist? Not that your point is without merit, but before you start giving lessons on language, at least make sure you are not talking about things you obviously know nothing about.

Why not learn learn Hebrew and Greek? What would the advantage be in pronouncing the Son of God's Name the way you suggest over how most English speakers do?
Why are you always so abrasive?

Hyperbole much?

Why are you always so long-winded, pedantic, and a one-note wonder?

Takes all kinds. It's internets. If someone is going to give a long lecture on something, they better have at least a clue about which they are talking.

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God bless your hearts.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2011, 12:33:56 AM »
Think of "Yeshua" as the extended edition Blu-Ray in the realm of Jesus merchandise

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Offline 88Devin12

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2011, 07:44:35 AM »
Yeshua/Yehoshua...
'Ιησους...
Iesus...
Joshua...
Jesus...

It doesn't really matter what you call him, they are all equal. Just because something is in the "original language" doesn't make it any more holy/important than the others.

Offline NorthernPines

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2011, 12:31:43 PM »
I must say, I'm a bit surprised by the seeming outrage at such a simple question. The OP asked a simple, logical and perfectly sane question. I don't think there was any reason to jump down his throat, even if his knowledge of Greek isn't "up to par"....that's irrelevant; the question still is a logical question which has real answers in the history and evolution of language. The same question can be asked about "James" the Just...since his name isn't James but Jacob.

Jesus was a Jew, who's actual name in history was Yeshua, this is as close to an historical fact as we can possibly get; short of suggesting Jesus was a completely Hellenized Jew, which doesn't fit with any other historical evidence, this was certainly His given name. I'm sure Aramaic speaking Churches still call him Yeshua (though I admit I've never had the the opportunity to attend one). No big deal.

We just live in a culture and use a language which traces it's lineage back to the Greek pronunciation; however I doubt Aramaic speaking Christians in Palestine are using Iesous in their Liturgy. (I could be wrong though)

In short, I'll prefer we continue to use "Jesus" since 99% of westerners mispronounce "Yeshua" so badly as to sound like a 1st grader with too much bubblegum in his mouth. :) It's like pronouncing YHWH without the Jewish way of pronouncing certain letters....it ends up as YaWay" which just sounds corny! :)



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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2011, 01:10:24 PM »
I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek. 

The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:

Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped

S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.

Greeks ended up with iesus

To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?).  So we had a J.

Today we have "Jesus".  Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English?

There's no harm in pronouncing His name as "Jesus," as long as we're consistent; the name of the book of Joshua in the OT is "Jesus of Nun" in the Septuagint - not creating a fasle Jesus/Joshua dichotomy.  Since we're coming from the Greek-translated OT (which may be more accurate to the ancient OT than the Masoretic-derived Hebrew OT of the modern day), it's natural for us to continue to use the name "Jesus" derived from the Septuagint.
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Offline 88Devin12

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2011, 03:12:37 PM »
I think of it this way...

If I have a friend here in Greece that visits America, but his name is "Yianni", people will not call him Yianni (most likely) but rather, "John/Johnny". Or if I had a friend named Iakov, we won't call him Iakov, but rather Jacob.

There isn't anything wrong with that IMO.

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2011, 04:23:31 PM »
I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek. 

The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:

Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped

S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.

Greeks ended up with iesus

To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?).  So we had a J.

Today we have "Jesus".  Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English?

Not much of a philologist? Not that your point is without merit, but before you start giving lessons on language, at least make sure you are not talking about things you obviously know nothing about.

Why not learn learn Hebrew and Greek? What would the advantage be in pronouncing the Son of God's Name the way you suggest over how most English speakers do?
Why are you always so abrasive?

Hyperbole much?

Why are you always so long-winded, pedantic, and a one-note wonder?

Takes all kinds. It's internets. If someone is going to give a long lecture on something, they better have at least a clue about which they are talking.

Here to make it all better:

God bless your hearts.
Exhibit A.

BTW, I just don't remember Jesus saying, "Go forth and repel all nations." But apparently that's in your bible somewhere.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2011, 05:18:49 PM »
I must say, I'm a bit surprised by the seeming outrage at such a simple question.

Where's the outrage other than Papist's hysteria?
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2011, 05:21:47 PM »
I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek. 

The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:

Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped

S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.

Greeks ended up with iesus

To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?).  So we had a J.

Today we have "Jesus".  Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English?

Not much of a philologist? Not that your point is without merit, but before you start giving lessons on language, at least make sure you are not talking about things you obviously know nothing about.

Why not learn learn Hebrew and Greek? What would the advantage be in pronouncing the Son of God's Name the way you suggest over how most English speakers do?
Why are you always so abrasive?

Hyperbole much?

Why are you always so long-winded, pedantic, and a one-note wonder?

Takes all kinds. It's internets. If someone is going to give a long lecture on something, they better have at least a clue about which they are talking.

Here to make it all better:

God bless your hearts.
Exhibit A.

BTW, I just don't remember Jesus saying, "Go forth and repel all nations." But apparently that's in your bible somewhere.

Did you even go to University?

When people put forth an idea where ideas are discussed and they are out of their depth it is hardly "abrasive" to correct them.

Notice the follow up questions.

And spare me your pointless homiletics.
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Online PeterTheAleut

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2011, 01:04:29 AM »
I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek.  

The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:

Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped

S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.

Greeks ended up with iesus

To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?).  So we had a J.

Today we have "Jesus".  Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English?

Not much of a philologist? Not that your point is without merit, but before you start giving lessons on language, at least make sure you are not talking about things you obviously know nothing about.

Why not learn learn Hebrew and Greek? What would the advantage be in pronouncing the Son of God's Name the way you suggest over how most English speakers do?
Why are you always so abrasive?

Hyperbole much?

Why are you always so long-winded, pedantic, and a one-note wonder?

Takes all kinds. It's internets. If someone is going to give a long lecture on something, they better have at least a clue about which they are talking.

Here to make it all better:

God bless your hearts.
Exhibit A.

BTW, I just don't remember Jesus saying, "Go forth and repel all nations." But apparently that's in your bible somewhere.
Papist, You really need to be careful how much you stir the pot here. You're already on a very short leash regarding what you're permitted to say on Faith Issues.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 01:04:46 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline LBK

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2011, 02:23:07 AM »
Quote
BTW, I just don't remember Jesus saying, "Go forth and repel all nations." But apparently that's in your bible somewhere.

Rubbish, Papist, I would have thought you oughta know better. Like what is sung towards the close of every Orthodox vespers service:

Now, Master, let Your servant depart in peace, according to Your word; for my eyes have seen Your salvation, which You have prepared before the face of all peoples; a Light to bring revelation to the nations, and the glory of Your people Israel.

One of the most ancient, and truly beautiful, pieces of Orthodox hymnography. It's straight out of the Gospel, yours and mine.  ;)
« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 02:24:20 AM by LBK »
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2011, 02:32:50 AM »
Quote
BTW, I just don't remember Jesus saying, "Go forth and repel all nations." But apparently that's in your bible somewhere.

Rubbish, Papist, I would have thought you oughta know better. Like what is sung towards the close of every Orthodox vespers service:

Now, Master, let Your servant depart in peace, according to Your word; for my eyes have seen Your salvation, which You have prepared before the face of all peoples; a Light to bring revelation to the nations, and the glory of Your people Israel.

One of the most ancient, and truly beautiful, pieces of Orthodox hymnography. It's straight out of the Gospel, yours and mine.  ;)

To be fair, I think he was directing the comment directly at ME not at Orthodoxy.
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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2011, 03:01:07 AM »
Why do we call Deutschland Germany or Yeshayahu Isaiah?  There are a lot of places and people who do not originally go by the English name we give them.

Offline LBK

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2011, 03:03:22 AM »
Quote
BTW, I just don't remember Jesus saying, "Go forth and repel all nations." But apparently that's in your bible somewhere.

Rubbish, Papist, I would have thought you oughta know better. Like what is sung towards the close of every Orthodox vespers service:

Now, Master, let Your servant depart in peace, according to Your word; for my eyes have seen Your salvation, which You have prepared before the face of all peoples; a Light to bring revelation to the nations, and the glory of Your people Israel.

One of the most ancient, and truly beautiful, pieces of Orthodox hymnography. It's straight out of the Gospel, yours and mine.  ;)

To be fair, I think he was directing the comment directly at ME not at Orthodoxy.


That's not the point, orthonorm. Surely you can see that.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline LBK

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2011, 03:09:55 AM »
Why do we call Deutschland Germany or Yeshayahu Isaiah?  There are a lot of places and people who do not originally go by the English name we give them.

Exactly. Deutschland=Allemagne=Germany=Germania; France=Frankreich=Gallia; Hellas=Greece=Griechenland; Niederland=Hollandia=The Netherlands=Pays-Bas ... and I could be here all day with many other examples, in an assortment of languages.
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2011, 12:39:16 PM »
I must say, I'm a bit surprised by the seeming outrage at such a simple question. The OP asked a simple, logical and perfectly sane question. I don't think there was any reason to jump down his throat, even if his knowledge of Greek isn't "up to par"....that's irrelevant; the question still is a logical question which has real answers in the history and evolution of language. The same question can be asked about "James" the Just...since his name isn't James but Jacob.

Jesus was a Jew, who's actual name in history was Yeshua, this is as close to an historical fact as we can possibly get; short of suggesting Jesus was a completely Hellenized Jew, which doesn't fit with any other historical evidence, this was certainly His given name. I'm sure Aramaic speaking Churches still call him Yeshua (though I admit I've never had the the opportunity to attend one). No big deal.

We just live in a culture and use a language which traces it's lineage back to the Greek pronunciation; however I doubt Aramaic speaking Christians in Palestine are using Iesous in their Liturgy. (I could be wrong though)

In short, I'll prefer we continue to use "Jesus" since 99% of westerners mispronounce "Yeshua" so badly as to sound like a 1st grader with too much bubblegum in his mouth. :) It's like pronouncing YHWH without the Jewish way of pronouncing certain letters....it ends up as YaWay" which just sounds corny! :)

Thanks for seeing that I was just trying to ask. 

Not that I think saying "Jesus" is in particularly wrong or anything.

I guess I was just trying to ask if we can "properly" pronounce and spell "Yeshua" in the modern day English language - and that we LEARN the proper pronunciation, is that not better than calling our savior "Jesus".

People have used examples of other people's names in other languages being translated to English, and that's fine.  However, that person's name and phonic sound is really "their name" in their native tongue.  It just strikes me as curious - if his name is Yeshua and we can spell and pronounce "Yeshua" in our English tongue, then why not call him his "authentic" and Earth spoken name?

Thanks.
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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2011, 12:43:18 PM »
I must say, I'm a bit surprised by the seeming outrage at such a simple question. The OP asked a simple, logical and perfectly sane question. I don't think there was any reason to jump down his throat, even if his knowledge of Greek isn't "up to par"....that's irrelevant; the question still is a logical question which has real answers in the history and evolution of language. The same question can be asked about "James" the Just...since his name isn't James but Jacob.

Jesus was a Jew, who's actual name in history was Yeshua, this is as close to an historical fact as we can possibly get; short of suggesting Jesus was a completely Hellenized Jew, which doesn't fit with any other historical evidence, this was certainly His given name. I'm sure Aramaic speaking Churches still call him Yeshua (though I admit I've never had the the opportunity to attend one). No big deal.

We just live in a culture and use a language which traces it's lineage back to the Greek pronunciation; however I doubt Aramaic speaking Christians in Palestine are using Iesous in their Liturgy. (I could be wrong though)

In short, I'll prefer we continue to use "Jesus" since 99% of westerners mispronounce "Yeshua" so badly as to sound like a 1st grader with too much bubblegum in his mouth. :) It's like pronouncing YHWH without the Jewish way of pronouncing certain letters....it ends up as YaWay" which just sounds corny! :)



If I'm not mistaken... the ancient Israelites never pronounced Y-H-V-H at all, let alone in a 'Jewish' way.

The Name was for them (and should still be for us) ineffable.

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†NI KA†
Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute...

Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth.

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2011, 04:34:31 PM »
delete
« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 04:35:24 PM by Papist »
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Offline Papist

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Re: Why don't we say Yeshua, the aramayic name of Jesus?
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2011, 04:35:04 PM »
I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek.  

The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:

Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped

S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.

Greeks ended up with iesus

To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?).  So we had a J.

Today we have "Jesus".  Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English?

Not much of a philologist? Not that your point is without merit, but before you start giving lessons on language, at least make sure you are not talking about things you obviously know nothing about.

Why not learn learn Hebrew and Greek? What would the advantage be in pronouncing the Son of God's Name the way you suggest over how most English speakers do?
Why are you always so abrasive?

Hyperbole much?

Why are you always so long-winded, pedantic, and a one-note wonder?

Takes all kinds. It's internets. If someone is going to give a long lecture on something, they better have at least a clue about which they are talking.

Here to make it all better:

God bless your hearts.
Exhibit A.

BTW, I just don't remember Jesus saying, "Go forth and repel all nations." But apparently that's in your bible somewhere.
Papist, You really need to be careful how much you stir the pot here. You're already on a very short leash regarding what you're permitted to say on Faith Issues.
Understood. I am out.
My posts no longer forum here.