yeshuaisiam
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« on: March 04, 2011, 03:42:47 PM » |
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I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek.
The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:
Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped
S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.
Greeks ended up with iesus
To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?). So we had a J.
Today we have "Jesus". Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English?
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orthonorm
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« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2011, 04:01:26 PM » |
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I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek.
The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:
Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped
S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.
Greeks ended up with iesus
To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?). So we had a J.
Today we have "Jesus". Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English?
Not much of a philologist? Not that your point is without merit, but before you start giving lessons on language, at least make sure you are not talking about things you obviously know nothing about. Why not learn learn Hebrew and Greek? What would the advantage be in pronouncing the Son of God's Name the way you suggest over how most English speakers do? |
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We cannot legislate morality by passing laws controlling firearms. The only evil we can combat lies within our hearts. We need stronger laws to protect the moral foundation of society against the evil of gay marriage. |
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yeshuaisiam
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The best things in life are not things.
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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2011, 04:14:27 PM » |
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I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek.
The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:
Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped
S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.
Greeks ended up with iesus
To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?). So we had a J.
Today we have "Jesus". Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English?
Not much of a philologist? Not that your point is without merit, but before you start giving lessons on language, at least make sure you are not talking about things you obviously know nothing about. Why not learn learn Hebrew and Greek? What would the advantage be in pronouncing the Son of God's Name the way you suggest over how most English speakers do? That's the beauty of the internet. You can email scholars in language. This came from Joseph Bahner who teaches ancient Hebrew to Jews in Israel. He's a professor. No I am not a philologist. I just simply don't understand why we don't "root back" to the original pronunciation of our savior's name. |
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ialmisry
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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2011, 04:33:04 PM » |
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Most of us don't speak Aramaic (I do).
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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orthonorm
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« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2011, 04:34:32 PM » |
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Most of us don't speak Aramaic (I do).
Something I wanted to ask you on another thread that slipped away. I suppose you can "speak" ASL. Do you and your son sign in any other languages? |
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We cannot legislate morality by passing laws controlling firearms. The only evil we can combat lies within our hearts. We need stronger laws to protect the moral foundation of society against the evil of gay marriage. |
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ialmisry
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« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2011, 04:52:41 PM » |
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Most of us don't speak Aramaic (I do).
Something I wanted to ask you on another thread that slipped away. I suppose you can "speak" ASL. Do you and your son sign in any other languages? Actually, my son doesn't sign. Between my teaching him to look at me pronounce a word (used to that from teaching language), and him compensating, by the time he was diagnosed with the hearing problem, he had already mainstreamed himself. All we did was get a hearing aid for his one ear (the other wouldn't be helped), and speech therapists. My autistic nephew, however, does sign. |
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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Jason.Wike
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« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2011, 04:54:30 PM » |
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The adding on of it -s at the end has to do with it being the nominative case, which English doesn't inflect for anymore, but in most European languages used to be -us, -os or -az.
English has pretty much lost all the rules about how things should be Anglicized so there really isn't any linguistic argument against using "Yeshua" (other languages have problems like they can't say "y," Scottish Gaelic has the problem that you can't have e (considered a slender vowel) and u (a broad vowel) around a consonant so they couldn't do that).
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If you give up pride of place for yourself to God, you will find your soul and eternity.. if you insist on putting yourself before God you will loose yourself eternally.
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orthonorm
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« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2011, 05:10:53 PM » |
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The adding on of it -s at the end has to do with it being the nominative case, which English doesn't inflect for anymore, but in most European languages used to be -us, -os or -az.
English has pretty much lost all the rules about how things should be Anglicized so there really isn't any linguistic argument against using "Yeshua" (other languages have problems like they can't say "y," Scottish Gaelic has the problem that you can't have e (considered a slender vowel) and u (a broad vowel) around a consonant so they couldn't do that).
Not to nerd out too much, but the rare case when a noun in the singular might have been declined in the history of the English language, Jesus would not have been. The "s" is from the declension in both Latin and Greek and just carried over into English. As for no "rules" on Anglicizing, the rule is to follow the majority. Using Yeshua has no point in use in the English language outside of nerd talk other than to possibly draw attention to one's self. |
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We cannot legislate morality by passing laws controlling firearms. The only evil we can combat lies within our hearts. We need stronger laws to protect the moral foundation of society against the evil of gay marriage. |
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katherineofdixie
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« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2011, 05:29:52 PM » |
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I just simply don't understand why we don't "root back" to the original pronunciation of our savior's name.
Because (most of us) are English-speakers and not Aramaic speakers. Languages change, also. Think about reading Chaucer. I'm not sure I would even recognize it as English, if I got into my trusty time machine and was able to hear someone actually speaking it as it was spoken in his day? (Some of the more erudite can instruct me - do we even know how His name was pronounced in the Aramaic of the period?) |
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"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."
St. John Chrysostom
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MyMapleStory
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« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2011, 06:17:15 PM » |
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If the name was to be absolutely kept as it sounds the apostles would not have translated it as Iesous in the greek, therefore what is wrong with saying Jesus since Iesous is just as different than Yeshua. I have nothing against the name Yeshua, it was how Christ was called by His mother (most likely), but we don't need to say it any more than we have to call Joseph, Yoseph.
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LBK
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« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2011, 06:56:37 PM » |
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It's not how His name is said that's important, knowing and understanding who He is, is. Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma Wha-?! Where did you get that idea? The Greek alphabet ends at omega. Gamma is the third letter of the Greek alphabet. There is no y sound (as in yellow) in Greek, so the approximation is ia, ie, io, etc, depending on the vowel which follows the y. |
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Asteriktos
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« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2011, 06:58:12 PM » |
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With all the merchandise and whatnot with Jesus on it, there's no way we can switch now. Do you realise how much money people would lose!?
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vamrat
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« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2011, 07:19:59 PM » |
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Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma Wha-?! Where did you get that idea? The Greek alphabet ends at omega. Gamma is the third letter of the Greek alphabet. There is no y sound (as in yellow) in Greek, so the approximation is ia, ie, io, etc, depending on the vowel which follows the y. Better question - why would it matter what the Greek alphabet ended with as far as letter changing? There is neither an omega nor a gamma in our Lord's name. The argument is non sequitur. It's like saying Vamrat used to be Yamrat but was changed to Vamrat because the English alphabet almost ends in Y. Why does it matter what position the letter used in the name is in the alphabet? Perhaps there is a major point I am missing. |
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It is an education process for me as I learn about the psychology of spiritual apostasy. And others get the benefit of perhaps hearing righteousness for the first time.
Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons of God.
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Tzimis
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« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2011, 07:54:25 PM » |
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YHWH I believe is translated to Kyrios and Theos in the LXX. It usually is translated into Lord in English as far as I know.
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Excellence of character, then, is a state concerned with choice, lying in a mean relative to us, this being determined by reason and in the way in which the man of practical wisdom would determine it. Now it is a mean between two vices, that which depends on excess and that which depends on defect.
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Papist
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« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2011, 08:28:50 PM » |
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I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek.
The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:
Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped
S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.
Greeks ended up with iesus
To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?). So we had a J.
Today we have "Jesus". Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English?
Not much of a philologist? Not that your point is without merit, but before you start giving lessons on language, at least make sure you are not talking about things you obviously know nothing about. Why not learn learn Hebrew and Greek? What would the advantage be in pronouncing the Son of God's Name the way you suggest over how most English speakers do? Why are you always so abrasive? |
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"The only-begotten Son of God, wanting us to be partakers of his divinity, assumed our human nature so that, having become man, he might make men gods." - St. Thomas Aquinas
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Iconodule
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« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2011, 08:36:38 PM » |
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I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek.
The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:
Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped
S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.
Greeks ended up with iesus
To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?). So we had a J.
Today we have "Jesus". Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English?
Not much of a philologist? Not that your point is without merit, but before you start giving lessons on language, at least make sure you are not talking about things you obviously know nothing about. Why not learn learn Hebrew and Greek? What would the advantage be in pronouncing the Son of God's Name the way you suggest over how most English speakers do? Why are you always so abrasive? I don't know, the "Old English" thing is pretty heinous. |
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"A Poet a Painter a Musician an Architect: the Man Or Woman who is not one of these is not a Christian." - William Blake
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Alveus Lacuna
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« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2011, 08:38:28 PM » |
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With all the merchandise and whatnot with Jesus on it, there's no way we can switch now. Do you realise how much money people would lose!? Uh, you actually make more money when you get to sell it all over again to the same people. Think of "Yeshua" as the extended edition Blu-Ray in the realm of Jesus merchandise: "Yeshua is my homeboy." "Yeshua loves my tattoos." "The Passion of the Meshiach." To weigh in, I think that people prefer these other titles as they are more exotic and let you make Jesus something besides what he is typically viewed as in mainstream American culture. |
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« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 08:39:20 PM by Alveus Lacuna »
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Cognomen
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You can run...
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« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2011, 09:03:27 PM » |
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I don't know, the "Old English" thing is pretty heinous. At the least, egregious. Uh, you actually make more money when you get to sell it all over again to the same people. Think of "Yeshua" as the extended edition Blu-Ray in the realm of Jesus merchandise:
"Yeshua is my homeboy."
"Yeshua loves my tattoos."
"The Passion of the Meshiach." Ahh, and the " WWYD?" merchandise alone. $£$£$£ |
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"Paint a bunch of icons of our Lord and the saints and then kiss them. Also, pray to Mary after she dies in the future."
~ The Epistle of St. Paul to the Antiochians, 46 AD.
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Achronos
What's so good about Cincinnati? You like it? You think Cincinnati is cool? I've never heard anyone say, 'I'm going to Cincinnati on vacation.'
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And we gave him the Rolling Stone cover?!
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« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2011, 09:17:53 PM » |
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I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek.
The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:
Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped
S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.
Greeks ended up with iesus
To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?). So we had a J.
Today we have "Jesus". Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English?
Not much of a philologist? Not that your point is without merit, but before you start giving lessons on language, at least make sure you are not talking about things you obviously know nothing about. Why not learn learn Hebrew and Greek? What would the advantage be in pronouncing the Son of God's Name the way you suggest over how most English speakers do? Why are you always so abrasive? I concur |
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“Without music, life would be a mistake.”
“The last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope.”
"Face the facts of being what you are, for that is what changes what you are."
"We see at once that the words absolute, divine, eternal, and so on do not express what is implied in them.
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Alveus Lacuna
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« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2011, 09:23:33 PM » |
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Why are you always so abrasive? I like it abrasive. |
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Achronos
What's so good about Cincinnati? You like it? You think Cincinnati is cool? I've never heard anyone say, 'I'm going to Cincinnati on vacation.'
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And we gave him the Rolling Stone cover?!
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« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2011, 09:25:52 PM » |
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Why are you always so abrasive? I like it abrasive. ..and your wife? I kid. |
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“Without music, life would be a mistake.”
“The last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope.”
"Face the facts of being what you are, for that is what changes what you are."
"We see at once that the words absolute, divine, eternal, and so on do not express what is implied in them.
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orthonorm
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« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2011, 12:10:52 AM » |
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I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek.
The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:
Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped
S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.
Greeks ended up with iesus
To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?). So we had a J.
Today we have "Jesus". Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English?
Not much of a philologist? Not that your point is without merit, but before you start giving lessons on language, at least make sure you are not talking about things you obviously know nothing about. Why not learn learn Hebrew and Greek? What would the advantage be in pronouncing the Son of God's Name the way you suggest over how most English speakers do? Why are you always so abrasive? Hyperbole much? Why are you always so long-winded, pedantic, and a one-note wonder? Takes all kinds. It's internets. If someone is going to give a long lecture on something, they better have at least a clue about which they are talking. Here to make it all better: God bless your hearts. |
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We cannot legislate morality by passing laws controlling firearms. The only evil we can combat lies within our hearts. We need stronger laws to protect the moral foundation of society against the evil of gay marriage. |
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orthonorm
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« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2011, 12:33:56 AM » |
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Think of "Yeshua" as the extended edition Blu-Ray in the realm of Jesus merchandise
.sig worthy |
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We cannot legislate morality by passing laws controlling firearms. The only evil we can combat lies within our hearts. We need stronger laws to protect the moral foundation of society against the evil of gay marriage. |
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88Devin12
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« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2011, 07:44:35 AM » |
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Yeshua/Yehoshua...
'Ιησους...
Iesus...
Joshua...
Jesus...
It doesn't really matter what you call him, they are all equal. Just because something is in the "original language" doesn't make it any more holy/important than the others.
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NorthernPines
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« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2011, 12:31:43 PM » |
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I must say, I'm a bit surprised by the seeming outrage at such a simple question. The OP asked a simple, logical and perfectly sane question. I don't think there was any reason to jump down his throat, even if his knowledge of Greek isn't "up to par"....that's irrelevant; the question still is a logical question which has real answers in the history and evolution of language. The same question can be asked about "James" the Just...since his name isn't James but Jacob. Jesus was a Jew, who's actual name in history was Yeshua, this is as close to an historical fact as we can possibly get; short of suggesting Jesus was a completely Hellenized Jew, which doesn't fit with any other historical evidence, this was certainly His given name. I'm sure Aramaic speaking Churches still call him Yeshua (though I admit I've never had the the opportunity to attend one). No big deal. We just live in a culture and use a language which traces it's lineage back to the Greek pronunciation; however I doubt Aramaic speaking Christians in Palestine are using Iesous in their Liturgy. (I could be wrong though) In short, I'll prefer we continue to use "Jesus" since 99% of westerners mispronounce "Yeshua" so badly as to sound like a 1st grader with too much bubblegum in his mouth.  It's like pronouncing YHWH without the Jewish way of pronouncing certain letters....it ends up as YaWay" which just sounds corny! |
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Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
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May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
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« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2011, 01:10:24 PM » |
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I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek.
The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:
Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped
S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.
Greeks ended up with iesus
To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?). So we had a J.
Today we have "Jesus". Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English? There's no harm in pronouncing His name as "Jesus," as long as we're consistent; the name of the book of Joshua in the OT is "Jesus of Nun" in the Septuagint - not creating a fasle Jesus/Joshua dichotomy. Since we're coming from the Greek-translated OT (which may be more accurate to the ancient OT than the Masoretic-derived Hebrew OT of the modern day), it's natural for us to continue to use the name "Jesus" derived from the Septuagint. |
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"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
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88Devin12
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« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2011, 03:12:37 PM » |
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I think of it this way...
If I have a friend here in Greece that visits America, but his name is "Yianni", people will not call him Yianni (most likely) but rather, "John/Johnny". Or if I had a friend named Iakov, we won't call him Iakov, but rather Jacob.
There isn't anything wrong with that IMO.
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Papist
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« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2011, 04:23:31 PM » |
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I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek.
The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:
Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped
S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.
Greeks ended up with iesus
To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?). So we had a J.
Today we have "Jesus". Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English?
Not much of a philologist? Not that your point is without merit, but before you start giving lessons on language, at least make sure you are not talking about things you obviously know nothing about. Why not learn learn Hebrew and Greek? What would the advantage be in pronouncing the Son of God's Name the way you suggest over how most English speakers do? Why are you always so abrasive? Hyperbole much? Why are you always so long-winded, pedantic, and a one-note wonder? Takes all kinds. It's internets. If someone is going to give a long lecture on something, they better have at least a clue about which they are talking. Here to make it all better: God bless your hearts. Exhibit A. BTW, I just don't remember Jesus saying, "Go forth and repel all nations." But apparently that's in your bible somewhere. |
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"The only-begotten Son of God, wanting us to be partakers of his divinity, assumed our human nature so that, having become man, he might make men gods." - St. Thomas Aquinas
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orthonorm
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« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2011, 05:18:49 PM » |
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I must say, I'm a bit surprised by the seeming outrage at such a simple question.
Where's the outrage other than Papist's hysteria? |
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We cannot legislate morality by passing laws controlling firearms. The only evil we can combat lies within our hearts. We need stronger laws to protect the moral foundation of society against the evil of gay marriage. |
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orthonorm
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« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2011, 05:21:47 PM » |
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I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek.
The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:
Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped
S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.
Greeks ended up with iesus
To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?). So we had a J.
Today we have "Jesus". Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English?
Not much of a philologist? Not that your point is without merit, but before you start giving lessons on language, at least make sure you are not talking about things you obviously know nothing about. Why not learn learn Hebrew and Greek? What would the advantage be in pronouncing the Son of God's Name the way you suggest over how most English speakers do? Why are you always so abrasive? Hyperbole much? Why are you always so long-winded, pedantic, and a one-note wonder? Takes all kinds. It's internets. If someone is going to give a long lecture on something, they better have at least a clue about which they are talking. Here to make it all better: God bless your hearts. Exhibit A. BTW, I just don't remember Jesus saying, "Go forth and repel all nations." But apparently that's in your bible somewhere. Did you even go to University? When people put forth an idea where ideas are discussed and they are out of their depth it is hardly "abrasive" to correct them. Notice the follow up questions. And spare me your pointless homiletics. |
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We cannot legislate morality by passing laws controlling firearms. The only evil we can combat lies within our hearts. We need stronger laws to protect the moral foundation of society against the evil of gay marriage. |
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PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
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EXTERMINATE!
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« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2011, 01:04:29 AM » |
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I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek.
The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:
Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped
S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.
Greeks ended up with iesus
To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?). So we had a J.
Today we have "Jesus". Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English?
Not much of a philologist? Not that your point is without merit, but before you start giving lessons on language, at least make sure you are not talking about things you obviously know nothing about. Why not learn learn Hebrew and Greek? What would the advantage be in pronouncing the Son of God's Name the way you suggest over how most English speakers do? Why are you always so abrasive? Hyperbole much? Why are you always so long-winded, pedantic, and a one-note wonder? Takes all kinds. It's internets. If someone is going to give a long lecture on something, they better have at least a clue about which they are talking. Here to make it all better: God bless your hearts. Exhibit A. BTW, I just don't remember Jesus saying, "Go forth and repel all nations." But apparently that's in your bible somewhere. |
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« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 01:04:46 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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LBK
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« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2011, 02:23:07 AM » |
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BTW, I just don't remember Jesus saying, "Go forth and repel all nations." But apparently that's in your bible somewhere. Rubbish, Papist, I would have thought you oughta know better. Like what is sung towards the close of every Orthodox vespers service:
Now, Master, let Your servant depart in peace, according to Your word; for my eyes have seen Your salvation, which You have prepared before the face of all peoples; a Light to bring revelation to the nations, and the glory of Your people Israel.
One of the most ancient, and truly beautiful, pieces of Orthodox hymnography. It's straight out of the Gospel, yours and mine.  |
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« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 02:24:20 AM by LBK »
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orthonorm
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« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2011, 02:32:50 AM » |
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BTW, I just don't remember Jesus saying, "Go forth and repel all nations." But apparently that's in your bible somewhere. Rubbish, Papist, I would have thought you oughta know better. Like what is sung towards the close of every Orthodox vespers service:
Now, Master, let Your servant depart in peace, according to Your word; for my eyes have seen Your salvation, which You have prepared before the face of all peoples; a Light to bring revelation to the nations, and the glory of Your people Israel.
One of the most ancient, and truly beautiful, pieces of Orthodox hymnography. It's straight out of the Gospel, yours and mine. To be fair, I think he was directing the comment directly at ME not at Orthodoxy. |
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We cannot legislate morality by passing laws controlling firearms. The only evil we can combat lies within our hearts. We need stronger laws to protect the moral foundation of society against the evil of gay marriage. |
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Gamliel
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Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 1,001
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« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2011, 03:01:07 AM » |
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Why do we call Deutschland Germany or Yeshayahu Isaiah? There are a lot of places and people who do not originally go by the English name we give them.
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LBK
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« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2011, 03:03:22 AM » |
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BTW, I just don't remember Jesus saying, "Go forth and repel all nations." But apparently that's in your bible somewhere. Rubbish, Papist, I would have thought you oughta know better. Like what is sung towards the close of every Orthodox vespers service:
Now, Master, let Your servant depart in peace, according to Your word; for my eyes have seen Your salvation, which You have prepared before the face of all peoples; a Light to bring revelation to the nations, and the glory of Your people Israel.
One of the most ancient, and truly beautiful, pieces of Orthodox hymnography. It's straight out of the Gospel, yours and mine. To be fair, I think he was directing the comment directly at ME not at Orthodoxy. That's not the point, orthonorm. Surely you can see that. |
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LBK
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« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2011, 03:09:55 AM » |
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Why do we call Deutschland Germany or Yeshayahu Isaiah? There are a lot of places and people who do not originally go by the English name we give them.
Exactly. Deutschland=Allemagne=Germany=Germania; France=Frankreich=Gallia; Hellas=Greece=Griechenland; Niederland=Hollandia=The Netherlands=Pays-Bas ... and I could be here all day with many other examples, in an assortment of languages. |
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yeshuaisiam
Archon
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Faith: Orthodox, Anabaptist, Other Early Christianity kind of jumbled together
Posts: 2,619
The best things in life are not things.
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« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2011, 12:39:16 PM » |
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I must say, I'm a bit surprised by the seeming outrage at such a simple question. The OP asked a simple, logical and perfectly sane question. I don't think there was any reason to jump down his throat, even if his knowledge of Greek isn't "up to par"....that's irrelevant; the question still is a logical question which has real answers in the history and evolution of language. The same question can be asked about "James" the Just...since his name isn't James but Jacob. Jesus was a Jew, who's actual name in history was Yeshua, this is as close to an historical fact as we can possibly get; short of suggesting Jesus was a completely Hellenized Jew, which doesn't fit with any other historical evidence, this was certainly His given name. I'm sure Aramaic speaking Churches still call him Yeshua (though I admit I've never had the the opportunity to attend one). No big deal. We just live in a culture and use a language which traces it's lineage back to the Greek pronunciation; however I doubt Aramaic speaking Christians in Palestine are using Iesous in their Liturgy. (I could be wrong though) In short, I'll prefer we continue to use "Jesus" since 99% of westerners mispronounce "Yeshua" so badly as to sound like a 1st grader with too much bubblegum in his mouth. It's like pronouncing YHWH without the Jewish way of pronouncing certain letters....it ends up as YaWay" which just sounds corny! Thanks for seeing that I was just trying to ask. Not that I think saying "Jesus" is in particularly wrong or anything. I guess I was just trying to ask if we can "properly" pronounce and spell "Yeshua" in the modern day English language - and that we LEARN the proper pronunciation, is that not better than calling our savior "Jesus". People have used examples of other people's names in other languages being translated to English, and that's fine. However, that person's name and phonic sound is really "their name" in their native tongue. It just strikes me as curious - if his name is Yeshua and we can spell and pronounce "Yeshua" in our English tongue, then why not call him his "authentic" and Earth spoken name? Thanks. |
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Saint Iaint
This Poster Has Ignored Multiple Requests to Behave Better
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The Truth Shall Be Reviled
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« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2011, 12:43:18 PM » |
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I must say, I'm a bit surprised by the seeming outrage at such a simple question. The OP asked a simple, logical and perfectly sane question. I don't think there was any reason to jump down his throat, even if his knowledge of Greek isn't "up to par"....that's irrelevant; the question still is a logical question which has real answers in the history and evolution of language. The same question can be asked about "James" the Just...since his name isn't James but Jacob. Jesus was a Jew, who's actual name in history was Yeshua, this is as close to an historical fact as we can possibly get; short of suggesting Jesus was a completely Hellenized Jew, which doesn't fit with any other historical evidence, this was certainly His given name. I'm sure Aramaic speaking Churches still call him Yeshua (though I admit I've never had the the opportunity to attend one). No big deal. We just live in a culture and use a language which traces it's lineage back to the Greek pronunciation; however I doubt Aramaic speaking Christians in Palestine are using Iesous in their Liturgy. (I could be wrong though) In short, I'll prefer we continue to use "Jesus" since 99% of westerners mispronounce "Yeshua" so badly as to sound like a 1st grader with too much bubblegum in his mouth. It's like pronouncing YHWH without the Jewish way of pronouncing certain letters....it ends up as YaWay" which just sounds corny! If I'm not mistaken... the ancient Israelites never pronounced Y-H-V-H at all, let alone in a 'Jewish' way. The Name was for them (and should still be for us) ineffable. †IC XC† †NI KA† |
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Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute...
Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth.
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Papist
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« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2011, 04:34:31 PM » |
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delete
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« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 04:35:24 PM by Papist »
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"The only-begotten Son of God, wanting us to be partakers of his divinity, assumed our human nature so that, having become man, he might make men gods." - St. Thomas Aquinas
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Papist
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« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2011, 04:35:04 PM » |
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I know that Jesus is a transliteration of iesus christos from the Greek.
The Greeks translated - Yeshua (as far as I understand it) by:
Y - replaced with an i because Greek alphabet ends at Gamma
E - carried on
SH - There is not "SH" sound in Greek
u - Used in Greek & Carried on
a - dropped
S - added in Greek for males of significant importance.
Greeks ended up with iesus
To OLD English (King James) i and j were backwards (kind of like Latin - Remember the Old Last Crusade movie by Indiana Jones?). So we had a J.
Today we have "Jesus". Now that's not entirely wrong or anything, but wouldn't it be better to call him Yeshua since we can truly pronounce it in our native tongue of English?
Not much of a philologist? Not that your point is without merit, but before you start giving lessons on language, at least make sure you are not talking about things you obviously know nothing about. Why not learn learn Hebrew and Greek? What would the advantage be in pronouncing the Son of God's Name the way you suggest over how most English speakers do? Why are you always so abrasive? Hyperbole much? Why are you always so long-winded, pedantic, and a one-note wonder? Takes all kinds. It's internets. If someone is going to give a long lecture on something, they better have at least a clue about which they are talking. Here to make it all better: God bless your hearts. Exhibit A. BTW, I just don't remember Jesus saying, "Go forth and repel all nations." But apparently that's in your bible somewhere. Understood. I am out. |
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"The only-begotten Son of God, wanting us to be partakers of his divinity, assumed our human nature so that, having become man, he might make men gods." - St. Thomas Aquinas
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