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Author Topic: Sunday Obligation  (Read 1060 times) Average Rating: 0
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mtmamma
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« on: March 02, 2011, 08:30:26 PM »

I went to the Divine Liturgy this morning at the Coptic Church and one of the ladies told me that there is an English Divine Liturgy held every Saturday at the Church. I am wondering how this works no one could really explain it due to the language barrier. Does this replace Sundays or could this be something extra? Is there a such thing as an Holy Day of Obligation in the Coptic Church? Is Vespers something one should attend regularly or is it similar to the Saturday night mass at the Catholic Church (meaning if you attend Sat. night you don't need to go Sunday morning)?
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deusveritasest
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« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2011, 12:50:55 AM »

There is no sort of Sunday or Feast Day obligation like in the Roman church. Orthodox Christians are simply taught that they should go to as many of the Divine Services as they can.
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ialmisry
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« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2011, 01:58:01 AM »

I went to the Divine Liturgy this morning at the Coptic Church and one of the ladies told me that there is an English Divine Liturgy held every Saturday at the Church. I am wondering how this works no one could really explain it due to the language barrier. Does this replace Sundays or could this be something extra? Is there a such thing as an Holy Day of Obligation in the Coptic Church? Is Vespers something one should attend regularly or is it similar to the Saturday night mass at the Catholic Church (meaning if you attend Sat. night you don't need to go Sunday morning)?
For the Coptic OO and us EO we go on Sat. night Vespers and Sun. DL. In Egypt it is very common to go to DL on Friday instead of Sunday, because many do not get Sunday off. But even then, if they are off Sunday (national holiday, etc.) then they would go then. And Friday.  Most people who go to the Saturday DL service (usu. called "Naadi") go to the Sunady one as well.  It's just the Sat. one gets them to understand the Sun. one better.
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« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2011, 02:07:45 AM »

Okay, I think I get it. So I am assuming that it wouldnt be a mortal sin to miss attending the Divine Liturgy?
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John Larocque
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« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2011, 02:20:41 AM »

I've never been able to pin down a specific canon or rule, but I remember reading somewhere that if are absent from Divine Liturgy without cause after 3 weeks, you are actually excommunicated and require confession before one can return.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=11544.0

If you strip away the legalistic aspects of mortal sin (and the presumptions about what happens to a soul in serious sin), the practical effect for Roman Catholics is the same: no return to communion without first a confession.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 02:21:39 AM by John Larocque » Logged
deusveritasest
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« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2011, 02:26:58 AM »

So I am assuming that it wouldnt be a mortal sin to miss attending the Divine Liturgy?

...

Given such a simplistic phrasing, no.

If one is not obligated then obviously it's not a "mortal sin", which isn't terminology we usually use anyway.
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mtmamma
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« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2011, 02:41:06 AM »

Thanks for the link to that thread John.

@deusveritasest is there an similar Orthodox concept to the Roman's version of mortal or venal sins?
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ialmisry
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« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2011, 02:46:08 AM »

Thanks for the link to that thread John.

@deusveritasest is there an similar Orthodox concept to the Roman's version of mortal or venal sins?
No. Confession isn't a check box.
http://www.oca.org/qa.asp?id=153&sid=3
Quote
These categories do not exist in the Orthodox Church. Sin is sin.
The Greek word for sin, amartia, means "to miss the mark." As Christians, the "mark" or "target" for which we "aim" is a Christ-like life, one lived to the best of our ability in line with the teachings, precepts, and commandments of God. When we miss this mark, when we fail to hit this target, we sin. Murder is a sin. Pride and envy are sins. Stealing a car is a sin. Stealing a candy bar is a sin. Refusing to attend the Liturgy is a sin -- but so is attending the Liturgy with hatred for others.

Missing the mark is missing the mark. If we aim at the bullseye and miss, it makes no difference if it is by an inch or a yard. In both cases, we have failed to achieve that for which we strive.

In some Orthodox catechisms one finds lists of the "seven deadly sins." While there can be no doubt that these sins are deadly -- here deadly and "mortal" are synonymous, but "mortal" is not used in the same way as in the Roman Catholic "mortal" sin described above -- they are not "worse" in the ultimate sense than sins that are not on the list.
[In the quote from Fr. Harakas' book, the use of the word "mortal" should not be understood in the Roman Catholic definition of "mortal" outlined above. He clearly defines the term as meaning "unto death," or "deadly."]

For example, one would not find listening to rock and roll music on the list of deadly sins. However, a person who spends all of his or her time listening to such music, to the point that he or she ignores others, isolates himself or herself from people and other activities, and becomes controlled by his or her desire to listen to such music to the exclusion of other important aspects of life, can find himself or herself in a deadly and sinful condition. Listening to the music is not the sin; the music itself is not the sin; becoming obsessed with the music -- and ignoring other aspects of one's life or the importance of loving relationships with others -- is what is sinful.

I cannot produce a list of sins; there are countless things that, while not in and of themselves sinful, can lead one to sin. A list of sins implies that things not found on the list are not sinful. Such is not the case. A better way to look at sin would be the following: Are my actions, my thoughts, my attitudes, my material goods, etc. controlling me, or am I in control of them....
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
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« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2011, 02:48:56 AM »

Okay, I think I get it. So I am assuming that it wouldnt be a mortal sin to miss attending the Divine Liturgy?
If you are able to, yes. But I've known those who haven't been able for years (e.g. no priest).
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2011, 05:37:46 AM »



As others have said, the Orthodox approach is not to categorise sin as "mortal" and "venial":

A very wise priest once said to me: All sins are stains on our souls. A handkerchief is either clean, or it is not. It may have only been used once, but it is still soiled, no matter if only by a speck. If the President, Prime Minister, or the King or Queen suddenly needed a handkerchief, and you were the only one close enough who had one, if you knew it was unclean, even if only slightly, would you give it to him/her?

Food for thought.
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mtmamma
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« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2011, 12:16:10 PM »

So a sin is a sin. There are no degrees to sin as they would all be considered wrong. That makes sense, it's a new concept for me--- it just sounds so simple.
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LizaSymonenko
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« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2011, 12:33:21 PM »



As others have said, the Orthodox approach is not to categorise sin as "mortal" and "venial":

A very wise priest once said to me: All sins are stains on our souls. A handkerchief is either clean, or it is not. It may have only been used once, but it is still soiled, no matter if only by a speck. If the President, Prime Minister, or the King or Queen suddenly needed a handkerchief, and you were the only one close enough who had one, if you knew it was unclean, even if only slightly, would you give it to him/her?

Food for thought.

I love that analogy!  If you don't mind, I'm going to use it.
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« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2011, 04:05:44 PM »

So a sin is a sin. There are no degrees to sin as they would all be considered wrong. That makes sense, it's a new concept for me--- it just sounds so simple.

There are degrees of wrongfulness, but all sins place one out of perfect communion with God.
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