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Author Topic: So how soon will America no longer be Christian?  (Read 1901 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: March 03, 2011, 07:39:26 AM »

16% not having any faith at all, which is double from what it was a decade ago.
http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/report-religious-landscape-study-full.pdf

Will this trend keep on continuing? Considering 75% of all philosophers now are atheists (got that from Kreeft, feel free to debunk me theo) but only about 4% of Americans would label themselves as atheists, so you know where the education is going. Both education and the media are anti-religious, so I think it's only a matter of time when that 16% increases shortly.

But I would like to speculate on something. If that number keeps rises exponentially, what sort of country America will look like at that time? Say it reaches 50% or over, is it too bold to say those that do practice religion will be persecuted even to the point of death? How much of a crisis will this country have?
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« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2011, 08:38:50 AM »

16% not having any faith at all, which is double from what it was a decade ago.
http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/report-religious-landscape-study-full.pdf

Will this trend keep on continuing? Considering 75% of all philosophers now are atheists (got that from Kreeft, feel free to debunk me theo) but only about 4% of Americans would label themselves as atheists, so you know where the education is going. Both education and the media are anti-religious, so I think it's only a matter of time when that 16% increases shortly.

But I would like to speculate on something. If that number keeps rises exponentially, what sort of country America will look like at that time? Say it reaches 50% or over, is it too bold to say those that do practice religion will be persecuted even to the point of death? How much of a crisis will this country have?

Is it Christian now? Or are you just referring to the majority?
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« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2011, 09:06:27 AM »

It's about 76% in America from a 2009 survey.  http://www.gallup.com/poll/124793/this-christmas-78-americans-identify-christian.aspx

In 1990 it was 86% http://www.gc.cuny.edu/faculty/research_briefs/aris/key_findings.htm

Granted people attending church on a regular basis is 41% in America versus Britain which is only 10%. However the UK has about 61+ million versus America which has 308+ million.
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« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2011, 12:28:37 PM »



But I would like to speculate on something. If that number keeps rises exponentially, what sort of country America will look like at that time? Say it reaches 50% or over, is it too bold to say those that do practice religion will be persecuted even to the point of death? How much of a crisis will this country have?

Crisis? You mean like in the Scandinavian countries which have the healthiest, happiest, most content people on earth? Cheesy

America was founded by Deistic rationalists and atheists, and they were the ones that gave us the 1st Amendment. So why do you think if we went back to such a society religions would all of a sudden be persecuted? However the most religious countries on earth tend to be the ones that don't allow freedom of religion. (Saudi Arabia for example) In fact, according to the pew research center, http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1847/how-religion-divides-and-unites-us-david-campbell-conversation-transcript America is slightly MORE religious than Iran, and yet it is the religious Fundamentalists of Iran (not the modern, liberal, more secular Iranians) who are running the roost and doing the persecuting.)

The truth is human beings are tribal; no matter which "in group" we find ourselves in, there are always going to be those who want to demonize the "out group" and yes, this may lead to persecution. However Christianity is no less vulnerable to the in group/out group mentality than any other worldview. Now, I hate to play devil's advocate but Christopher Hitchens gives several examples one of which I'll tweak slightly for Americans,

Scenario 1: imagine you are a homosexual walking down the street. On one side of the street you see a group of atheists and on the other side of the street you see group of young men coming from Fred Phelps Church . . . which side of the street are you going to feel safer on?

Scenario 2: You are an African American in the South in the 1960's. You are walking at night in the Bermingham . . . you are being chased by some thug . . . you have the choice of going into a neighborhood full of white secular humanists, or into a neighborhood full of white southern baptists; which one do you choose?

Scenario 3: (this is what Hitchens uses though I can't remember all the details so I'll probably botch it at some point) You are walking down a back alley in the middle east; you see a group of Muslim men dressed in traditional garb coming from Friday evening prayers; and on the other side of the road you see a group of "westerners" wearing red atheist pins, which side of the street do you feel most comfortable on?

Yeah they are hypothetical scenarios, and I do NOT want you to literally answer them on the forum, they are for personal reflection; in all 3 cases though I'd feel safer with the "atheists" and the secularists than I would with the religious people described in those scenarios. Yes, other scenarios can be given to prove just the opposite, but I'm not trying to "prove" anything except that if someone posts some other example that shows religious folks can be better than atheists they are only proving the only point I'm trying to make at all; humans are tribal! We create in group/out group scenarios and automatically assume those in the "out group" wish to do us some form of harm not based on evidence or reason, but based on the fact that they are not "with us", so they must be "against us".

There are plenty of secular nations in the world which are perfectly fine places to live. There are plenty of religious nations which aren't so nice, and vice versa and everything in between.

 As Christians we should do our best to rise above in group/out group thinking, protect everyone's freedom as best we can.

Anyways enough pontificating on my part, I will add however that it's not entirely clear America is really losing it's religious beliefs at all. it seems that the religious make up of America remains remarkable consistent over the long haul. It goes up and down in cycles,


http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1847/how-religion-divides-and-unites-us-david-campbell-conversation-transcript



I know it's really part of popular American Christian 'theology' that Christianity in America (and religion in general) is on some massive decline and before long we're going to look like Sweden (not sure why that's a bad thing exactly) however as this poll shows for the most part this belief is just that, a belief that doesn't quite line up with the actual facts:


http://www.gallup.com/poll/145409/near-record-high-religion-losing-influence-america.aspx




Some pollsters, including the Christian run Barna Group has even shown a slight increase in Religious beliefs in America over the past 20 years;

http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/5-barna-update/76-americas-religious-activity-has-increased-since-1996-but-its-beliefs-remain-virtually-unchanged?q=religious+beliefs



Another poll supporting the findings:

http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/5-barna-update/136-religious-activity-increasing-in-the-west?q=religious+beliefs


What seems to be decreasing is not religious belief per se, but Church attendance; that is what is declining while personal religious belief and the importance of religion to people remains high. This is according to a Baptist pollster:

Quote
A new Gallup poll shows that, while personal measures of religious sentiment have remained fairly high among Americans, their membership in houses of worship continues a long decline and they increasingly believe that religion is losing influence in the country at large.

See here for the whole article:

http://bullardjournal.blogs.com/bullardjournal/2010/12/gallup-poll-us-personal-religiosity-stable-influence-declines-associated-baptist-press-december-30-2010.html


And even if we end up "looking like Europe" or other not so religious Western nations, (forget England for a moment..lol!) I don't see the big deal. We are a very religious nation, and I believe actually the most religious states have the highest rates of violent crime, though I admit I can't find the polls to support that at the moment. (I have heard this many times though)

I'm not arguing "for" or "against" anything per se, secularism is not the ill of society, neither is religion. Human beings, of all walks do good things and bad things; the problem is in group/out group thinking IMO. As long as we have THAT, we will have problems.

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« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2011, 12:42:57 PM »

I dare to speculate on the existance of American Christendom. I don't see it. Utilize any media (radio, TV, internet, etc.) and talk to any random passer-by. You're most likely not going to run into anything Christian.

And, from my experience with "religious" types, you may very well see them at church on Sunday morning...and you'll see them in the clubs Friday night. Americans will identify as "Christian" but they have no praxis. No asceticism. This was a big motivation for me to convert to Orthodoxy...it actually required something of me!
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« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2011, 01:14:49 PM »

These are some very interesting comments and observations.  Be that as it may, America was founded on Judaeo-Christian concepts of freedom and equality.  Has it been perfectly implemented??  Heck no, but neither was the Byzantine Empire the perfect Christian Theocracy.   However, I can remember meeting some people from other countries when I was young and they told me with much enthusiasm how happy they were to be in America and able to practice their Faith without any hassles.

America has been and is being subverted slowly, almost inexorably by the Left, the Fifth Column, which has infested our media (newspaper, magazine and television) and even some ecclesial bodies (mainstream Protestant) and even the Catholic Church.  The Left has aligned itself with blindly supporting Islam through political correctness (hard to find a college campus not saturated with it) and there's little that Orthodox and strong Catholics can do except fast and pray.  I live in the DC area and the nuts in government are 99.99999% PC nuts. 
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« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2011, 01:16:51 PM »


Americans don't take religion seriously, because it comes to them free of charge.

They are free to believe whatever they will.  There's no limitations or expectations.

However, once things begin to change....and all of a sudden they find they are forbidden to pray to Christ,...then they will realize what they've been missing.

Too much freedom, sometimes is not a good thing.

It's like giving your kids free reign, and no discipline.  Allow them to do what they will...and they will watch TV, play with all their toys, eat everything....and yet, not hold any one thing dear.  They won't have a "special" toy....they will be bored with all their toys.  They will not truly "love" anything.  Does that make sense?

Unfortunately, that's where the US is at the moment.

I work with a woman who claims to be RC.  She had her kids baptized, however, her daughters have children (neither one married) and nobody is baptized.  Nobody goes to church....not even on Christmas/Easter.  She claims it hypocritical to go to church and then leave that building and be selfish and rude, etc.  She is better than the churchgoers for she "lives" her Faith.  She argued with me about the necessity of baptism....and that her grandkids are not damaged in any way for not being baptized...it's just a silly ritual.  Today she was all in my face about cremation, etc.  This is a woman who claims to be Roman Catholic, yet, she doesn't even "know" about her own Faith.

Nobody takes anything seriously.  It's a selfish, "me" centered society.  Who needs God, when everyone is their own god, and expect the world to revolve around them?

I say, instead of sending missionaries to other continents, we need to send them in to the streets of America.  We need to reach out to our own neighbors, and even our own fellow parishioners, and show the beauty and fullness that is Orthodoxy!  We need to give them a drink from that fountain....and then they will never look back.

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« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2011, 01:39:38 PM »

Liza, I totally agree with you.  I spent my childhood in the 1960s and it was worse than a disaster.  My teenage years were the 1970s, where one "did what they felt was right."  No logic, no reason, no values, no tradition.  This infested the RC in a bad way and it was and still is a mess.

In the 1960s, all the protesters wanted their "rights", but didn't want to deal with the responsibility that came with the rights.  So too in the Roman Church in the USA, it was feeling and no logic or reason... it led to "cafeteria Catholicism."

What that woman is saying to you does not surprise me.  Many Catholics are like this.

The best thing that ever happened to me growing up was getting kicked out of Catholic school in the 5th grade.  If I had stayed in, I would have lost my Faith.
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« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2011, 02:51:10 PM »

Britain is leading the way in abandoning Christianity, and America is huffing and puffing to catch up.  We've seen some policies that have been enacted in Britain, starting to become common place here.  For example, forcing adoption agencies to allow homosexuals to adopt, and private companies compelled to recognize homosexual "unions."

And then there's the attitude toward those who are pro-life and the attempt to eliminate any conscience protection clauses.
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« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2011, 03:58:50 PM »

Quote
But I would like to speculate on something. If that number keeps rises exponentially, what sort of country America will look like at that time?

Better...?

Quote
Say it reaches 50% or over, is it too bold to say those that do practice religion will be persecuted even to the point of death?

Bold? Not the word I would choose... maybe silly, or strange...

Quote
How much of a crisis will this country have?

Resistance is futile!
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« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2011, 04:25:04 PM »

16% not having any faith at all, which is double from what it was a decade ago.
http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/report-religious-landscape-study-full.pdf

Will this trend keep on continuing? Considering 75% of all philosophers now are atheists (got that from Kreeft, feel free to debunk me theo) but only about 4% of Americans would label themselves as atheists, so you know where the education is going. Both education and the media are anti-religious, so I think it's only a matter of time when that 16% increases shortly.

But I would like to speculate on something. If that number keeps rises exponentially, what sort of country America will look like at that time? Say it reaches 50% or over, is it too bold to say those that do practice religion will be persecuted even to the point of death? How much of a crisis will this country have?

The American Education system has been that way for about a hundred years now. Listen to this:
http://www.maxieburch.net/audio/AmericaSession8.mp3 (America Session 8  )

And read this:
http://www.amazon.com/Soul-American-University-Establishment-Established/dp/0195106504  (The Soul of the American University: From Protestant Establishment to Established Nonbelief)




The pendulum swings back and forth in the mainstream culture, but the schools been this way for a long time. The next election might swing the pendulum back our way, but America is becoming more and more diverse and so it will not only be christian, jew, and muslim, but also hindu, Buddhist, agnostic, new age, atheist, and militant atheist. Also, a good portion of those who claim to be atheist or no belief at all are fibbing. For many of them go to church once or twice a year, go to synagogue a few times a year, many of them experiment with Buddhism, Hinduism, secular humanist centers, satanism, wicca, vampirism......etc.

And so alot of atheists are religious! Don't let the numbers fool you!





NorthernPines,

I don't think religious people would like living in the countries you mentioned. If religious folk aren't allowed to express themselves freely in public then no, I don't think they would like it, and so the issue is subjective. The secularists and nonreligious will like it, but the religious folk will either hate it or dislike it.

Also our founding fathers were a mixed bag. Most of them were deeply religious, only a minority were deist, .....etc. And so America was simultaneously both secular as well as religious. It was both. To say that it was only secular is to be biased. It was both!



Asteriktos,

It's not silly to think that the secularists and atheists will persecute Christians. It is already happening. If they grow in number then what makes you think that it won't get worse? Also, resistance isn't futile.......why do you think the number one concern for America, and Western Europe is the oil of the middle east and Traditional Islam? They don't care about the people, they just care about their economy and their dependence on certain natural resources. How long do you think this is gonna last? And what do you think is gonna happen to secularism and atheists once the western system collapses? What happened to protestant liberal churches when they went along with the secular and atheist mantra of "god is dead"? When the culture changed they became mostly irrelevant! Because people knew that they really didn't believe in anything, people knew that all they cared about was being liked and accepted by the mainstream culture.....even at the cost of denying their very essence. The same will happen again to churches who wish to be accepted. Once the pendulum of the culture changes........the will be left to dry! For people will know that they don't really believe in anything......all they care about is wanting to be accepted by the culture.

  Who do you think will be in control once our economy collapses? They won't have the funds, the ammo, nor the votes to hold religious folks back for ever. Secularism is on it's last leg, once our system collapses it's bye bye secularism world wide.




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« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2011, 04:42:45 PM »

Was America ever really "Christian"?
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« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2011, 04:50:20 PM »

Was America ever really "Christian"?

You mean 100%ly with no pagans, no barbarians.....I mean secularists? NO! But America was always both christian and secular simultaneously. From the very beginning to now.

I think our Episcopalian friend Ebor will agree with me on this.

Now if you mean Christian as in Orthodox Christianity then I would say no. It never had an Orthodox influence that was major from what I can recall. I could be wrong about that, but if that is what you mean by Christian, then no. It never was.


If that's the context we are talking about. But generically speaking........yes, it was christian and secular simultaneously.

I think Orthodox Christians should support the jewish, protestant and Roman Catholic influences of this country because they are alot closer to us then the secular, civil deistic, and atheistic influences of this country.
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« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2011, 06:17:03 PM »

I think there are several reasons the popularity of the Christian relgion has dwindled here in the states. I agree with Pani Liza's statement that too much freedom has spoiled many in this country. If we look at the mainstream christian religions here in the US, many of them have become a joke to the civilians, the press, and social media.

The Catholic church has such a bad rap on them right now due to all of the assault and homsexual acts conducted by their clergy. It seems everyday there is another story on the news about such and such priest, bishop ect preying on young boys or altarboys.

The preachy evangelicals are a joke due to many of their leaders stealing money and preaching as much hate as love.

It seems that many Protestant groups keep trying to reinvent themselves to attract people and money...

Then we have our mainstream media and newsmedia very rarely sharing a story of the good that christian groups do but condemning many religious groups for the scandals. (watch the Daily Show and you can see how this impacts our youth)

Even our president was once associated with a church in Chicago (the Rev Jeremiah Wright's church) which spouted hate. In some ways you can't blame America's youth for tuning out religion, what good role models do they have who are religious?

Thankfully, the Holy Orthodox Church does not suffer from nearly as many scandals or bad press as the Catholics or Protestants in this country. Reason 1, there are not nearly as many cases of abuse or fraud as the other Christians, and Reason 2, sadly the Orthodox Christians make up a small minority here in the states.
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« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2011, 06:20:27 PM »

I dare to speculate on the existance of American Christendom. I don't see it. Utilize any media (radio, TV, internet, etc.) and talk to any random passer-by. You're most likely not going to run into anything Christian.

And, from my experience with "religious" types, you may very well see them at church on Sunday morning...and you'll see them in the clubs Friday night. Americans will identify as "Christian" but they have no praxis. No asceticism. This was a big motivation for me to convert to Orthodoxy...it actually required something of me!

what's wrong with going to clubs on Friday nights? Wink
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« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2011, 07:14:35 PM »

Was America ever really "Christian"?

Naw, America is neither Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or any of the above. (Obama says so himself...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIVd7YT0oWA
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« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2011, 08:23:10 PM »

Can a country be a Christian?
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« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2011, 08:30:50 PM »

Quote
But I would like to speculate on something. If that number keeps rises exponentially, what sort of country America will look like at that time?

Better...?

Quote
Say it reaches 50% or over, is it too bold to say those that do practice religion will be persecuted even to the point of death?

Bold? Not the word I would choose... maybe silly, or strange...

Quote
How much of a crisis will this country have?

Resistance is futile!
Since the atheistic communist regimes slaughtered more people during the 20th century than any other oppressive regime in history, I don't think it's extreme to believe that atheists would persecute Christians.
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« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2011, 07:19:55 PM »



I've decided to not participate in this discussion! Sorry for the inconvenience.
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« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2011, 07:28:24 PM »

Since the atheistic communist regimes slaughtered more people during the 20th century than any other oppressive regime in history, I don't think it's extreme to believe that atheists would persecute Christians.

Oh, I don't know, I think most atheists are lovable little fuzzballs! Smiley
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« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2014, 09:59:29 AM »

Things are getting bad. There's already one U.S. state in which most denizens of that state belong to a non-Christian religion.
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« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2014, 10:04:37 AM »

Things are getting bad. There's already one U.S. state in which most denizens of that state belong to a non-Christian religion.

NYCism is often mistaken for a religion, but in reality it is more like a life philosophy and is compatible with many religions, including Christianity.
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« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2014, 10:07:04 AM »

America was a Christian nation?

PP
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« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2014, 10:08:29 AM »

Things are getting bad. There's already one U.S. state in which most denizens of that state belong to a non-Christian religion.

NYCism is often mistaken for a religion, but in reality it is more like a life philosophy and is compatible with many religions, including Christianity.
That explains the Serpent trying to convince Eve to take a bite of the Big Apple.
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« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2014, 10:31:41 AM »

Things are getting bad. There's already one U.S. state in which most denizens of that state belong to a non-Christian religion.

NYCism is often mistaken for a religion, but in reality it is more like a life philosophy and is compatible with many religions, including Christianity.
No. I'm pretty sure that NYCism has doomed its adherents to a life of debauchery.  Have you never been there?  It is full of godless Broadway shows and Naked Cowboys.
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« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2014, 10:46:09 AM »

Things are getting bad. There's already one U.S. state in which most denizens of that state belong to a non-Christian religion.

NYCism is often mistaken for a religion, but in reality it is more like a life philosophy and is compatible with many religions, including Christianity.
No. I'm pretty sure that NYCism has doomed its adherents to a life of debauchery.  Have you never been there?  It is full of godless Broadway shows and Naked Cowboys.

You are kidding right? New York City is comprised of hundreds of neighborhoods all with a distinct identity and heritage like anyplace else in America for that matter. There are places as old fashioned as the rural South and places that are - well they are 'out there'. But painting  a broad brush over the entire City and state for that matter is ridiculous.

I remember stopping overnight a few years ago in Wytheville, Virginia off of Interstate 81 which runs along the Appalachian Mountains from Tennesee up to Lake Ontario in New York state.  I was getting the car cleaned out for the next leg of the trip when the cleaning lady popped up behind me and in a beautiful Appalachian drawl started to berate New York after noticing my licence plates. She had been to New York City once (Midtown for a tour) and she hated it. I indulged her for a minute or two and then with a straight face said that I too had been to the big city once or twice and that Norfolk/Portsmouth was an ugly place, full of sin, concrete and people in a hurry. She said, well sir, that is NOT Virginia! I asked her with a smile if she ever rode up Route 81 through to Lake Ontario, she had not. I told her that the only difference between where we were and most of the way along that north bound route was that the Churches included Catholic ones and we talked funny. She said she never thought about it that way. Duh.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 10:46:46 AM by podkarpatska » Logged
TheTrisagion
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« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2014, 10:52:21 AM »

Yes, I was kidding. Apparently, I forgot my trademark emoticons.  Undecided
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« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2014, 10:52:36 AM »

Things are getting bad. There's already one U.S. state in which most denizens of that state belong to a non-Christian religion.
Which one?
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« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2014, 10:58:24 AM »

Yes, I was kidding. Apparently, I forgot my trademark emoticons.  Undecided

Yes, please do include emoticons next time. The handicap of not being able to understand humor is a difficult one. Imagine living your entire life like that. Be generous with your attempts to accommodate those in need.  Smiley  Smiley  Smiley
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« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2014, 08:22:37 PM »

Yes, I was kidding. Apparently, I forgot my trademark emoticons.  Undecided

Southerners aren't the only Americans sensitive to stereotypes.. Grin
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« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2014, 08:25:55 PM »

Yes, I was kidding. Apparently, I forgot my trademark emoticons.  Undecided

Yes, please do include emoticons next time. The handicap of not being able to understand humor is a difficult one. Imagine living your entire life like that. Be generous with your attempts to accommodate those in need.  Smiley  Smiley  Smiley

The problem with oc.net is that just when you think some one has posted something absurd that you think is funny, you realize the poster is serious. And vice versa...
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« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2014, 08:59:46 PM »

16% not having any faith at all, which is double from what it was a decade ago.
http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/report-religious-landscape-study-full.pdf

Will this trend keep on continuing? Considering 75% of all philosophers now are atheists (got that from Kreeft, feel free to debunk me theo) but only about 4% of Americans would label themselves as atheists, so you know where the education is going. Both education and the media are anti-religious, so I think it's only a matter of time when that 16% increases shortly.

But I would like to speculate on something. If that number keeps rises exponentially, what sort of country America will look like at that time? Say it reaches 50% or over, is it too bold to say those that do practice religion will be persecuted even to the point of death? How much of a crisis will this country have?

Unfortunately, the anti-christian trend IMO has been a result of a lot of push back to evangelical Christians. I also understand the endless number of denominations is quite uniquely American. People get tired of hearing 10,000 different groups telling them "Believe this or you're going to hell." That's also why I think the EOC is the fastest growing Church here.

Most people, I know, who choose atheism, don't do it out of intellectual discretion (that's way too risky) they do it because the messages their being given don't agree with their heart. If I didn't know better, evangelicals probably would have pushed me away from Christianity also.
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« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2014, 09:11:33 PM »

Yes, I was kidding. Apparently, I forgot my trademark emoticons.  Undecided

Yes, please do include emoticons next time. The handicap of not being able to understand humor is a difficult one. Imagine living your entire life like that. Be generous with your attempts to accommodate those in need.  Smiley  Smiley  Smiley

The problem with oc.net is that just when you think some one has posted something absurd that you think is funny, you realize the poster is serious. And vice versa...

Well, I have to admit that you're right on that one...  Undecided
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« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2014, 09:22:27 PM »

Things are getting bad. There's already one U.S. state in which most denizens of that state belong to a non-Christian religion.
Which one?
Besides Utah? Utah is mostly Mormon and that is a non-Christian religion.
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« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2014, 09:24:20 PM »

Long time. Have you seen the South? The South will more or less forever remain Protestant fundamentalist. Anyhow, while irreligion is rising, I question if it's necessarily atheism and the Enlightenment and naturalistic ideals that generally define atheism. The trend I'm anecdotally observing is that more "irreligious" people are adopting a pseudo "spiritual but not religious" New-Age superstitious worldview more than anything, which basically is just another religion but not in the conventional sense. I don't ever see a time coming when the United States will be fully 100% unadulterated naturalistic atheists. Very worst I can see Christianity falling to 35%--mostly being concentrated in the South--and the rest of the nation being a melting pot of "spiritual-but-not-religious," religious minorities, and finally real atheists in the very bottom.
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« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2014, 09:31:04 PM »

Things are getting bad. There's already one U.S. state in which most denizens of that state belong to a non-Christian religion.
Which one?
Utah
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« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2014, 09:36:15 PM »

Long time. Have you seen the South? The South will more or less forever remain Protestant fundamentalist. Anyhow, while irreligion is rising, I question if it's necessarily atheism and the Enlightenment and naturalistic ideals that generally define atheism. The trend I'm anecdotally observing is that more "irreligious" people are adopting a pseudo "spiritual but not religious" New-Age superstitious worldview more than anything, which basically is just another religion but not in the conventional sense. I don't ever see a time coming when the United States will be fully 100% unadulterated naturalistic atheists. Very worst I can see Christianity falling to 35%--mostly being concentrated in the South--and the rest of the nation being a melting pot of "spiritual-but-not-religious," religious minorities, and finally real atheists in the very bottom.

I observe similar trends. The "Spiritual, but not religious" types, IMO are a result of the harassment by Protestant fundamentalists. They don't want to completely abandon their faith, but they know the stuff coming from there can't be right. It is a great misfortune that the gentler forms of Christianity tend to be overshadowed by those who preach very harshly and arrogantly.
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« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2014, 09:38:15 PM »

Quote
Spiritual, but not religious
Translation. Im actually about as deep as a mud puddle, but I want to make myself out like Im something special. Really, Im quite vacuous.

PP
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« Reply #38 on: August 16, 2014, 12:20:16 AM »

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Spiritual, but not religious
Translation. Im actually about as deep as a mud puddle, but I want to make myself out like Im something special. Really, Im quite vacuous.

PP

Vacuity, check yo avatar yo.
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« Reply #39 on: August 16, 2014, 01:18:08 AM »

I observe similar trends. The "Spiritual, but not religious" types, IMO are a result of the harassment by Protestant fundamentalists. They don't want to completely abandon their faith, but they know the stuff coming from there can't be right. It is a great misfortune that the gentler forms of Christianity tend to be overshadowed by those who preach very harshly and arrogantly.

I've met a lot of people who call themselves "Spiritual, but not religious" who are ex-Roman Catholics or so-called "recovering Catholics". It seems like they have already abandoned their faith, and are trying to rebuild it on their own terms, so to speak.
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« Reply #40 on: August 16, 2014, 06:16:12 AM »

I observe similar trends. The "Spiritual, but not religious" types, IMO are a result of the harassment by Protestant fundamentalists. They don't want to completely abandon their faith, but they know the stuff coming from there can't be right. It is a great misfortune that the gentler forms of Christianity tend to be overshadowed by those who preach very harshly and arrogantly.

I've met a lot of people who call themselves "Spiritual, but not religious" who are ex-Roman Catholics or so-called "recovering Catholics". It seems like they have already abandoned their faith, and are trying to rebuild it on their own terms, so to speak.

That's true. Some have been spiritually scarred by priests or pastors, so we shouldn't judge. "Spirituality" though won't give you fulfillment. It's like faith without works. Protestants I think have that same problem when they declared sola fide, in all good intention of destroying the possibility of indulgences, I think they threw out a major part of how one grows closer to God.

I've heard also that vampires are very spiritual creatures.
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