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Author Topic: How can we encourage the peaceful coexisting of religions?  (Read 1482 times) Average Rating: 0
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TryingtoConvert
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« on: March 01, 2011, 04:14:21 PM »

I think total coexistence is a pipe dream. There are always going to be people who are convinced they are right and cannot conceive of other people being allowed an opposing view. These are usually people who inherit their beliefs from their parents and have never actually given the issues any independent thought or study.

There are people who genuinely believe they are honor bound to try to save nonbelievers' souls. They think of their proselytizing as a service to you. So they will not stop.

As far as the mentions of the internet bringing us all together, that is pure naivety. How much coming together was accomplished in this thread or forum? Is this not the internet? The internet may give people a chance to discuss important topics with people they would never get a chance to meet IRL. But it affords an equal chance for people to argue and sow bad feelings.

Why would the internet work any better at bringing people together than real life does? The Moslems and Jews have certainly had plenty of opportunities to interact. How's that working out?

You want proof that just because people have the opportunity to get to know each other doesn't mean they will coexist? How about; India/Pakistan, the former Yugoslavia, and Rwanda, to name a few?
What do those countries have in common? They are all places that contained a variety of tribes and/or religions. The people of those countries managed to live and interact peacefully for years, while they were under the heel of a foreign power. But as soon as the foreign power left, the people of the various tribes decided to start fighting amongst themselves again.

tl;dr It just ain't going to happen with human beings.
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« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2011, 04:17:27 PM »

How can we encourage atheists to peacefully coexist with those who don't agree with them. I mean, atheistic communism was responsible for more deaths than nazism in the 20th century.
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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2011, 10:01:03 PM »

Stop teaching the old hatreds to your children is a good place to start.
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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2011, 10:14:34 PM »

There is a difference between believing someone is wrong about something and hating them because of it.
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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2011, 10:24:44 PM »

There is a difference between believing someone is wrong about something and hating them because of it.

good point!
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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2011, 10:40:57 PM »

There are people who genuinely believe they are honor bound to try to save nonbelievers' souls. They think of their proselytizing as a service to you. So they will not stop.

One of the ironic things about the liberal coexistence movement is that it involves insisting that proselytism must stop. In doing this they actually make the goal of coexistence harder to accomplish. Whereas moderates realize that coexistence could be achieved even in the midst of proselytizing continuing.
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« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2011, 12:22:59 AM »

There are people who genuinely believe they are honor bound to try to save nonbelievers' souls. They think of their proselytizing as a service to you. So they will not stop.

One of the ironic things about the liberal coexistence movement is that it involves insisting that proselytism must stop. In doing this they actually make the goal of coexistence harder to accomplish. Whereas moderates realize that coexistence could be achieved even in the midst of proselytizing continuing.
Plus, usually the group that wants a certain form of "proselytizing" to cease knows that by doing so, their own form of "proselytizing", whatever it may be, will be able to continue with less competition.

Which isn't a bad thing, as long as you admit it and don't hide it behind a false veil of tolerance.
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« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2011, 12:31:24 AM »

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Re: How can we encourage the peaceful coexisting of religions?

To paraphrase Charles Darwin, peaceful coexistence would best be promoted IMO by the gradual illumination of men's minds, which comes from the ever-increasing understanding of the world around us.
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« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2011, 01:07:00 AM »

It's not a panacea for universal peace and love (unfortunately), but a good start would be baptizing a few billion people.  angel
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« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2011, 03:56:36 AM »

How can we encourage atheists to peacefully coexist with those who don't agree with them. I mean, atheistic communism was responsible for more deaths than nazism in the 20th century.
The majority of atheists are not violent, neither are religious people. And although communism was responsible for deaths even on religious grounds, more of those deaths were less about beliefs and more about political power, religion was an excuse. Not to mention you seem to be trying to trivialize all religious fueled violence which is and has been more prominent throughout all recorded history, also stalinistic communism and nazism are relatively the same, they're both cases of totalitarian states using religion as an excuse to gain political power. I'd also admit even most religious wars are equally more political than having to do with faith, but that doesn't make my point moot. I normally at least try to respect your opinion because I can understand where you're coming from, but this is just a shallow attempt to try to divert blame and trivialize mass violence.
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« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2011, 03:59:10 AM »

For the record in America at least, I think coexistence can be achieved when the religious right stops trying to impose their religious views on the whole of society through the law. How that happens, I don't know. I suppose it has to happen from within and more moderate religious individuals have to stand up and take leadership roles in the religious community.
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« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2011, 05:52:59 AM »

How can we encourage atheists to peacefully coexist with those who don't agree with them. I mean, atheistic communism was responsible for more deaths than nazism in the 20th century.
And although communism was responsible for deaths even on religious grounds, more of those deaths were less about beliefs and more about political power, religion was an excuse.

Who told you so? Have you lived in a Communist country? In the Soviet Union, at least, religious persecution was very much 'about belief' and not about politics. Most Russian Orthodox believers did not engage in any sort of political activism, in fact, most of them tried to peacefully coexist with the Soviet authorities. But from 1917 to the moment when the USSR was involved in World War II, they were ruthlessly persecuted. Just for practising their religion, nothing else. Most priests, monks and nuns were killed, the rest went through prisons, concentration camps and/or exiles. Their children were encouraged to officially reject their parents (usually through a letter published in a newspaper). Those who didn't, were denied higher education, good jobs, they were mocked and ostracised, often imprisoned. Stalin officially proclaimed that ALL forms of religion (and not only those which presented some political danger) would be eliminated in the USSR in the course of the 'Godless five-year plan'. Only when Nazi Germany threatened the existence of the country, did the authorities weaken their persecution of the Church. And the Church fully supported the fight against German invaders.

After the war, the State allowed the Orthodox Church and most other communities to exist, but only just, demanding in exchange their full political loyalty (which was duly provided). None the less, the Church (and all other religious communities) were subject to all sorts of limitations and humiliations. They were allowed to conduct church services, to print a very limited number of religious books and reviews. But no religious organisation was allowed to do any missionary work, to carry out any charity activities, to hold or participate in any cultural events. Religious books could be sold only in churches or monasteries (of which only few existed). To buy a Bible was a big problem.

Government agents closely watched parish life. Members of the party or their families were not allowed to participate in any religious activities. If they did it on the sly, they were reported and had very big difficulties. All children in the country were expected to join the organisation of young pioneers which subscribed to the ideology of atheism. Those children who refused to do so for religious reasons were harassed by teachers and authorities, their parents - too. Any young man or woman who wanted to have a good higher education or any sort of career had to join the Komsomol - the Young Communist League, which was also atheist. If a Komsomol member was discovered to be religious, he or she was thrown away from the Komsomol, his or her university, lost his or her nice job. His or her parents were also harassed.

Children of priests often were treated as pariahs, encouraged to leave their parents.

Official propaganda always mocked religion - any religion,  but most of all - the Orthodox Church, which was considered the most dangerous ideological enemy.

And only very few members of the Church took part in any sort of dissident political activity.
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« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2011, 06:45:16 AM »

I find a common nuisance brings folks together. Care to go on a world tour?
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« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2011, 06:49:05 PM »


tl;dr It just ain't going to happen with human beings.

Not with that attitude (in group/out group) it ain't!


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« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2011, 08:19:33 PM »

For the record in America at least, I think coexistence can be achieved when the religious right stops trying to impose their religious views on the whole of society through the law. How that happens, I don't know. I suppose it has to happen from within and more moderate religious individuals have to stand up and take leadership roles in the religious community.
What about when the secular left imposes its views on everyone? What then?
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« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2011, 08:24:11 PM »

It's not a panacea for universal peace and love (unfortunately), but a good start would be baptizing a few billion people.  angel

It's better than linking arms for a rousing chorus of kumbaya.
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« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2011, 12:16:02 AM »

Ain't Christian.

Christ, swords, mother against daughter, father against son, and all that.

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« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2011, 02:50:32 AM »

For the record in America at least, I think coexistence can be achieved when the religious right stops trying to impose their religious views on the whole of society through the law. How that happens, I don't know. I suppose it has to happen from within and more moderate religious individuals have to stand up and take leadership roles in the religious community.
What about when the secular left imposes its views on everyone? What then?
(Contemporary) Examples please!

Mainstream political and religious leaders (like the Pope) reject things like promoting the use of condoms and comprehensive sex education (to the determent primarily of the poor). It's mainstream religion in general that denies gay people the right to marry and keeps pushing for laws limiting the ability for women to have an abortion if they so choose.

So exactly what are the corollaries on the other side? Those who insist we should remove "In God We Trust" from the money or "Under God" from the pledge might be obnoxious to some, but the standards they're trying to "impose" on society don't come close to the significance and harm of those imposed by mainstream religious groups.
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« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2011, 10:43:44 AM »

For the record in America at least, I think coexistence can be achieved when the religious right stops trying to impose their religious views on the whole of society through the law. How that happens, I don't know. I suppose it has to happen from within and more moderate religious individuals have to stand up and take leadership roles in the religious community.
What about when the secular left imposes its views on everyone? What then?
(Contemporary) Examples please!

Mainstream political and religious leaders (like the Pope) reject things like promoting the use of condoms and comprehensive sex education (to the determent primarily of the poor). It's mainstream religion in general that denies gay people the right to marry and keeps pushing for laws limiting the ability for women to have an abortion if they so choose.

So exactly what are the corollaries on the other side? Those who insist we should remove "In God We Trust" from the money or "Under God" from the pledge might be obnoxious to some, but the standards they're trying to "impose" on society don't come close to the significance and harm of those imposed by mainstream religious groups.
Well marriage emerged to provide a stabilizing force for procreation and survival of humanity while issuing an obligation to the father to provide for his progeny and their mother instead of just mating like beasts. Religion codified this further and we would see Genesis 2:24 as something that was pre-ordained for us to evolve to and anything else is a perversion of this. There is no suppression of "progress'' or "enlightenment" here; better things evolved thanks to religion but we struggled (& continue to do so) with our brutish side & the ideal of religion is marred by this as civilization moves further on. This is just an unfortunate way of humanity. Whatever "progress" has been made will not be thanks to alternative forms of "marriage" & if the world continues on, our eventual reduction back to a more survivalist mode will render concepts of "gay marriage" useless anyway since humanity could not sustain itself in that way.

The church is becoming increasingly irrelevant to secularism anyway, so why does secularism insist that it change? The secular world has no space for alternative, "repressive" concepts like the church anyway despite all of the "tolerance" professed by secularism. Christianity cannot bend to forces that are opposed to its core philosophies that undermine its own pathway to salvation.
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« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2011, 01:43:27 PM »

For the record in America at least, I think coexistence can be achieved when the religious right stops trying to impose their religious views on the whole of society through the law. How that happens, I don't know. I suppose it has to happen from within and more moderate religious individuals have to stand up and take leadership roles in the religious community.
What about when the secular left imposes its views on everyone? What then?
(Contemporary) Examples please!

Mainstream political and religious leaders (like the Pope) reject things like promoting the use of condoms and comprehensive sex education (to the determent primarily of the poor). It's mainstream religion in general that denies gay people the right to marry and keeps pushing for laws limiting the ability for women to have an abortion if they so choose.

So exactly what are the corollaries on the other side? Those who insist we should remove "In God We Trust" from the money or "Under God" from the pledge might be obnoxious to some, but the standards they're trying to "impose" on society don't come close to the significance and harm of those imposed by mainstream religious groups.
Well, there is the forcing down the throats of American people comprehensive sex education for children.
There is the moving of religion to the margins of society, which is really unacceptable for both Catholics and Orthodox.
Forcing tax payers to fund abortion in contradiciton to their consciences.
Forcing tax payers to fund birth control, in contradiciton to their consciences.
Forcing tax payer to fund unjust wars, in contradiction to their consciences.
ETC.
ETC.
ETC.
And remember, it was the secular communist regimes that the killed the most people during the 20th century, not the religious people.
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« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2011, 04:08:20 PM »


Well, there is the forcing down the throats of American people comprehensive sex education for children.
There is the moving of religion to the margins of society, which is really unacceptable for both Catholics and Orthodox.
Forcing tax payers to fund abortion in contradiciton to their consciences.
Forcing tax payers to fund birth control, in contradiciton to their consciences.
Forcing tax payer to fund unjust wars, in contradiction to their consciences.
ETC.
ETC.
ETC.
You do realize there's a separation of church and state? or at least supposed to be?
So you think that suddenly if the government forces everyone in the country to live by christian ideals this will somehow be fair? and you seem to think that these things are direct attacks on christians and their values, they're to protect people's rights to self determination not religious determination.
I don't know why I've been bothering to read your posts, and I always thought that everyone was just exaggerating about you basically trolling this board, but apparently I was wrong.

Also there is federal funding for abortion for victims of rape.
There is comprehensive sex education because how many christians in the U.S. practice abstinence till marriage?, and all public comprehensive sex education classes are opt out programs, so don't say it's forced down anyone's throat, this is also why there is birth control funding.
And I love how you act like funding of wars is not only contradictory to christian consciences but an attack on religious expression when the majority of the people who are in favor of the current military tradition are in the bible belt.

How can you even take yourself seriously?
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« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2011, 10:02:19 AM »


Well, there is the forcing down the throats of American people comprehensive sex education for children.
There is the moving of religion to the margins of society, which is really unacceptable for both Catholics and Orthodox.
Forcing tax payers to fund abortion in contradiciton to their consciences.
Forcing tax payers to fund birth control, in contradiciton to their consciences.
Forcing tax payer to fund unjust wars, in contradiction to their consciences.
ETC.
ETC.
ETC.
You do realize there's a separation of church and state? or at least supposed to be?
So you think that suddenly if the government forces everyone in the country to live by christian ideals this will somehow be fair? and you seem to think that these things are direct attacks on christians and their values, they're to protect people's rights to self determination not religious determination.
I don't know why I've been bothering to read your posts, and I always thought that everyone was just exaggerating about you basically trolling this board, but apparently I was wrong.

Also there is federal funding for abortion for victims of rape.
There is comprehensive sex education because how many christians in the U.S. practice abstinence till marriage?, and all public comprehensive sex education classes are opt out programs, so don't say it's forced down anyone's throat, this is also why there is birth control funding.
And I love how you act like funding of wars is not only contradictory to christian consciences but an attack on religious expression when the majority of the people who are in favor of the current military tradition are in the bible belt.

How can you even take yourself seriously?
I agree with you re church & state & I personally believe the current  church stand should be in moral & not legal opposition to an increasingly degenerate secular state trying to transform individual souls (such as yourself) to see the  self defeating & self destructive tendency of the secular welfare state. The welfare state perpetuates a way of death that actually leads to depletion of natural resources, wreckless consumption, overpopulation (& tries to compensate w/ abortion which is death), a focus on so-called "change" (whatever that is) vs. charity which culminates in death.
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« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2011, 12:20:06 PM »

Peace on Earth would pretty much required the elimination of the human race.  I am convinced that even if there are just two people left on the Earth, one would try to do harm to the other.  Heck, we have that example in the Garden of Eden.
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« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2011, 07:56:24 AM »

Orthodox Christians are (or should be) very much aware of the fact that human nature is damaged by the original sin. This sin is the prime source of all wars and violent disputes.

Therefore, peace can be achieved only through overcoming the sinful aspect of human nature by leading a Christian life.

It cannot be achieved by any amount of political, social or economic action.

As most people on this planet have no intention of leading a serious, conscienscious spiritual life centred round Our Lord Jesus Christ and of fighting against their sinful passions, no lasting peace on earth can be achieved - till the Second Coming. Even if the authorities all over the world do their utmost to repress human violence, it will explode, sooner or later.

As for peaceful coexistence with other religions - well, try to preach it in Saudi Arabia and see where it will get you.

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