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Author Topic: Jesus never calls Himself Son of God. Why?  (Read 1167 times) Average Rating: 0
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ipm
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« on: February 27, 2011, 07:50:41 PM »

I have been meditating a bit on the question of why Jesus never called Himself Son of God in so many words.
 
The best explanation I have is that He is waiting for us to recognize Him, and as such, profess our faith. This is not something that can be told to us but must be confessed: "Who do you say I am?".

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?


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Jason.Wike
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« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2011, 07:56:00 PM »

I'm pretty sure he does actually call himself God's son pretty frequently in the Bible.

In John 10:36 at least he says.. "Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?"

When Jesus was Baptised by John the Forerunner in the Jordan God himself also said "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased."
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 07:56:42 PM by Jason.Wike » Logged
ipm
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« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2011, 08:26:15 PM »

The quotes/references you provide seem right to me. Smiley

I just do not see this as a direct statement by Him nor does it seem like He is telling people that He Himself is the Son of God in those words.

I am certainly not an expert in this at all, so if I am off-base let me know,  but in the passage from John is He not posing a hypothetical question? I am not sure. To me, He implies a lot but never really makes the statement Himself directly.

I guess to me He is saying something like: “If I came along as I did, and did what I did, even if I said ‘I am the Son of God’ why would you not believe Me based on the acts I do?”

33 The Jews answered him, "It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God."
 34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, `I said, you are gods'?
 35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came (and scripture cannot be broken),
 36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, `You are blaspheming,' because I said, `I am the Son of God'?
 37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me;
 38 but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father."
 39 Again they tried to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands. (Joh 10:33-39 RSV)
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ipm
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« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2011, 08:50:02 PM »

Here are a few more quotes. Again, to me its never direct even if it is affirmative in each case. They seem to tell Him and He responds, I think.

60 And the high priest stood up in the midst, and asked Jesus, "Have you no answer to make? What is it that these men testify against you?"
 61 But he was silent and made no answer. Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?"
 62 And Jesus said, "I am; and you will see the Son of man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven."
 63 And the high priest tore his garments, and said, "Why do we still need witnesses?
 64 You have heard his blasphemy. What is your decision?" And they all condemned him as deserving death. (Mar 14:60-64 RSV)

63 But Jesus was silent. And the high priest said to him, "I adjure you by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."
 64 Jesus said to him, "You have said so. But I tell you, hereafter you will see the Son of man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven."
 65 Then the high priest tore his robes, and said, "He has uttered blasphemy. Why do we still need witnesses? You have now heard his blasphemy. (Mat 26:63-65 RSV)

67 "If you are the Christ, tell us." But he said to them, "If I tell you, you will not believe;
 68 and if I ask you, you will not answer.
 69 But from now on the Son of man shall be seated at the right hand of the power of God."
 70 And they all said, "Are you the Son of God, then?" And he said to them, "You say that I am."
 71 And they said, "What further testimony do we need? We have heard it ourselves from his own lips." (Luk 22:67-71 RSV)
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« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2011, 09:20:34 PM »

Christ didn't spell it out for everyone because He only wanted those with "ears to hear" to understand. Only his elect.

As the quoted verse shows, even if he did spell it out though, it doesn't matter because their hearts were hard and they didn't want God.
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« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2011, 12:12:48 AM »

Seems to me that Christ plainly affirms that He is the Son of God.

(...) And the high priest answered and said to Him, "I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!" Jesus said to him, "It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven."
- Matthew 26:63,64

'(...) Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" Jesus said, "I am.'
- Mark 14:61, 62


If I walk into a police station and ask the nearest important looking man, "Are you the Chief of Police?"... and his reply is, "I am." - has he not affirmed that he is indeed Chief of Police?
 
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« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2011, 12:13:35 AM »

Seems to me that Christ plainly affirms that He is the Son of God.

(...) And the high priest answered and said to Him, "I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!" Jesus said to him, "It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven."
- Matthew 26:63,64

'(...) Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" Jesus said, "I am.'
- Mark 14:61, 62


If I walk into a police station and ask the nearest important looking man, "Are you the Chief of Police?"... and his reply is, "I am." - has he not affirmed that he is indeed Chief of Police?
 
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True. And He did so under oath, no less.
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« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2011, 12:16:04 AM »

For me, the question "Who do you say I am?" is very personal and was instrumental in changing my own world view. While this may not be the place to discuss this, I will say that my answer took years to formulate and when I was brave enough to say it out loud, it was a huge weight that was lifted from me.
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« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2011, 12:17:21 AM »

Seems to me that Christ plainly affirms that He is the Son of God.

(...) And the high priest answered and said to Him, "I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!" Jesus said to him, "It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven."
- Matthew 26:63,64

'(...) Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" Jesus said, "I am.'
- Mark 14:61, 62


If I walk into a police station and ask the nearest important looking man, "Are you the Chief of Police?"... and his reply is, "I am." - has he not affirmed that he is indeed Chief of Police?
 
†IC XC†
†NI KA†
 



I agree
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ipm
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« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2011, 12:30:15 AM »

He uses Son of Man and other words but not really Son of God.

He never denies it, He never says no to the question, but He does not refer to Himself as such as far as I can see.
 
Affirming something, or telling someone that they are right in thinking the way they do is quite different than telling people that is the way they should call Him.

It may be semantics but to me it’s an important point.

From what I see is that He waits for others to proclaim His Divinity and to state what they believe about Him. Grace softens the hearts of some and they see Him for what He is in a way that is not bitter and that is loving.



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« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2011, 12:45:52 AM »

Just as God "expresses" extreme humility by not showing his presence (for various reasons) so Christ to explemifies this by not proclaiming his own divinity.

Why does Christ repeat himself twice here:  "and you will see the Son of man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven"?
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« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2011, 01:09:18 AM »

Perhaps Fr. Hopko (Ancient Faith Radio) can make my point better in his podcast. Please listen to it carefully.

Mar 22, 2009 Jesus - Son of God (part 1) Fr. Tom discusses Christ's divinity. Jesus is human, yes, but he is also God!

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/namesofjesus





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ipm
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« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2011, 02:31:07 AM »

I listened to Part 2 again just now as well. Towards the end, the point that He does not say this about Himself is made very clear. Its an oppinion. Please listen and then commnet. Smiley

Mar 27, 2009 Jesus - Son of God (part 2)
Jesus is the ONLY begotten Son and is ontologically related to God the Father unlike any other being.

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/namesofjesus




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« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2011, 02:46:11 AM »

I think a more apt question is why didn't Jesus call himself God?
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« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2011, 05:03:48 AM »

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
Christ gives clear hints that He is God (eg "I tell you, before Abraham I AM") yet these are like His parables, which, as someone else pointed out, were meant to be understood only by some. The reason for this, I think, was that it was a deliberate deception to leave the devil guessing. Each of the evil one's temptations of Our Lord were designed to ascertain if indeed He was God "If you are the Son of God then....." The devil wasn't sure of Christ's identity. So when the ancient murderer and father of lies arranged the murder of someone he thought was just another mortal man who was at most a Prophet like all the other Prophets who had worked wonders in the past yet were being held captive in Hades, the devil thought he had triumphed yet again. However instead of just receiving another mortal man, Hades received God Himself and was thus overpowered. the devil would never have worked to arrange the death of Christ if he'd known for certain that Christ was the Son of God. And so, Christ deceived the old deceiver in order to conquer him, thus, by death He has trampled on death.
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« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2011, 05:30:30 AM »

When the Apostles asked Jesus show us the Father, Jesus tells them all this time you've been with me and didn't know, when you see the Son you see the Father,For the Father is in the son, and the Son is in the Father..... police

So yes he did say he was the Son of God [Father]

Also  the Lords prayer he gave us ,testifies that God is his Father .....

« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 05:34:38 AM by stashko » Logged

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