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Author Topic: What is everyone reading?  (Read 389162 times) Average Rating: 5
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« Reply #3510 on: November 04, 2013, 12:04:55 PM »

Von Balthasar-Mysterium Paschale. Haven't read a theological book since the last aeon, but this is captivating.

Why? Because of Universalism?
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« Reply #3511 on: November 04, 2013, 01:14:56 PM »

Von Balthasar-Mysterium Paschale. Haven't read a theological book since the last aeon, but this is captivating.

Why? Because of Universalism?
well, maybe it's somehow implicit, or the logical conclusion of his argument, but he never states it as such, actually cautions against taking things to their logical ends. Huh
the book is captivating to someone like me, not well read at all in textual criticism, as it manages to make some intelligent arguments about Christ's resurrection, while integrating much of the text criticism , or at least taking it seriously. I mean I haven't had much interest in these matters before, so I sure come off a bit naive, I'm sure. But it's a book I'd recommend.
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« Reply #3512 on: November 04, 2013, 01:25:44 PM »

Von Balthasar-Mysterium Paschale. Haven't read a theological book since the last aeon, but this is captivating.

Why? Because of Universalism?
well, maybe it's somehow implicit, or the logical conclusion of his argument, but he never states it as such, actually cautions against taking things to their logical ends. Huh
the book is captivating to someone like me, not well read at all in textual criticism, as it manages to make some intelligent arguments about Christ's resurrection, while integrating much of the text criticism , or at least taking it seriously. I mean I haven't have much interest in these matters before, so I sure come off a bit naive, I'm sure. But it's a book I'd recommend.

Textual criticism is probably not what you think it is.
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« Reply #3513 on: November 04, 2013, 01:28:40 PM »

the book is captivating to someone like me, not well read at all in textual criticism, as it manages to make some intelligent arguments about Christ's resurrection, while integrating much of the text criticism , or at least taking it seriously.

Sounds pretty much like Joseph Ratzinger's trilogy on Jesus. You might want to read those some day.
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« Reply #3514 on: November 04, 2013, 01:30:32 PM »

Von Balthasar-Mysterium Paschale. Haven't read a theological book since the last aeon, but this is captivating.

Why? Because of Universalism?
well, maybe it's somehow implicit, or the logical conclusion of his argument, but he never states it as such, actually cautions against taking things to their logical ends. Huh
the book is captivating to someone like me, not well read at all in textual criticism, as it manages to make some intelligent arguments about Christ's resurrection, while integrating much of the text criticism , or at least taking it seriously. I mean I haven't have much interest in these matters before, so I sure come off a bit naive, I'm sure. But it's a book I'd recommend.

Textual criticism is probably not what you think it is.

And certainly not what you think it is.
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« Reply #3515 on: November 04, 2013, 01:31:22 PM »

Von Balthasar-Mysterium Paschale. Haven't read a theological book since the last aeon, but this is captivating.

Why? Because of Universalism?
well, maybe it's somehow implicit, or the logical conclusion of his argument, but he never states it as such, actually cautions against taking things to their logical ends. Huh
the book is captivating to someone like me, not well read at all in textual criticism, as it manages to make some intelligent arguments about Christ's resurrection, while integrating much of the text criticism , or at least taking it seriously. I mean I haven't have much interest in these matters before, so I sure come off a bit naive, I'm sure. But it's a book I'd recommend.

Textual criticism is probably not what you think it is.
im thinking of historical criticism, o pansophos.
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« Reply #3516 on: November 04, 2013, 01:33:26 PM »

the book is captivating to someone like me, not well read at all in textual criticism, as it manages to make some intelligent arguments about Christ's resurrection, while integrating much of the text criticism , or at least taking it seriously.

Sounds pretty much like Joseph Ratzinger's trilogy on Jesus. You might want to read those some day.
I found it on the thrash room where i work, so I have it, but haven't read it.
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« Reply #3517 on: November 04, 2013, 01:37:18 PM »

Von Balthasar-Mysterium Paschale. Haven't read a theological book since the last aeon, but this is captivating.

Why? Because of Universalism?
well, maybe it's somehow implicit, or the logical conclusion of his argument, but he never states it as such, actually cautions against taking things to their logical ends. Huh
the book is captivating to someone like me, not well read at all in textual criticism, as it manages to make some intelligent arguments about Christ's resurrection, while integrating much of the text criticism , or at least taking it seriously. I mean I haven't have much interest in these matters before, so I sure come off a bit naive, I'm sure. But it's a book I'd recommend.

Textual criticism is probably not what you think it is.

And certainly not what you think it is.

How so?
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« Reply #3518 on: November 04, 2013, 01:41:39 PM »

Von Balthasar-Mysterium Paschale. Haven't read a theological book since the last aeon, but this is captivating.

Why? Because of Universalism?
well, maybe it's somehow implicit, or the logical conclusion of his argument, but he never states it as such, actually cautions against taking things to their logical ends. Huh
the book is captivating to someone like me, not well read at all in textual criticism, as it manages to make some intelligent arguments about Christ's resurrection, while integrating much of the text criticism , or at least taking it seriously. I mean I haven't have much interest in these matters before, so I sure come off a bit naive, I'm sure. But it's a book I'd recommend.

Textual criticism is probably not what you think it is.

And certainly not what you think it is.

How so?

How not?
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« Reply #3519 on: November 04, 2013, 01:43:04 PM »

the book is captivating to someone like me, not well read at all in textual criticism, as it manages to make some intelligent arguments about Christ's resurrection, while integrating much of the text criticism , or at least taking it seriously.

Sounds pretty much like Joseph Ratzinger's trilogy on Jesus. You might want to read those some day.
I found it on the thrash room where i work, so I have it, but haven't read it.

Ok if this is too stupid or personal, forgive me. What is a "thrash room" and how do you find that text there?
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« Reply #3520 on: November 04, 2013, 01:44:20 PM »

the room where the garbage compactor is,. people sometimes bring their trash there.
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« Reply #3521 on: November 04, 2013, 01:50:03 PM »

the book is captivating to someone like me, not well read at all in textual criticism, as it manages to make some intelligent arguments about Christ's resurrection, while integrating much of the text criticism , or at least taking it seriously.

Sounds pretty much like Joseph Ratzinger's trilogy on Jesus. You might want to read those some day.
I found it on the thrash room where i work, so I have it, but haven't read it.

I've read only the first part but taking both scientific exegetics and Christianity seriously is exactly why I liked it. It's somewhat preachy but it didn't bother me.

I've never read anything from von Balthasar but he seems like an interesting author. Maybe I should read something from him too.
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« Reply #3522 on: November 04, 2013, 01:50:41 PM »

"Threshold", but "trash".  Wink
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« Reply #3523 on: November 04, 2013, 01:54:28 PM »

my bad
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« Reply #3524 on: November 04, 2013, 02:04:47 PM »

the book is captivating to someone like me, not well read at all in textual criticism, as it manages to make some intelligent arguments about Christ's resurrection, while integrating much of the text criticism , or at least taking it seriously.

Sounds pretty much like Joseph Ratzinger's trilogy on Jesus. You might want to read those some day.
I found it on the thrash room where i work, so I have it, but haven't read it.

I've read only the first part but taking both scientific exegetics and Christianity seriously is exactly why I liked it. It's somewhat preachy but it didn't bother me.

I've never read anything from von Balthasar but he seems like an interesting author. Maybe I should read something from him too.
De Lubac is also someone I'd read, specifically "The Drama of Atheistic Humanism".
This is a bit off-topic, but I also like Besancon. Especially his take on things Eastern. A fresh perspective, to say the least.
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« Reply #3525 on: November 04, 2013, 02:10:30 PM »

De Lubac is also someone I'd read, specifically "The Drama of Atheistic Humanism".

LOL. Sounds like something Fr. Seraphim Rose would write. Not the first notion that one would expect when we're talking about liberal RC theologians.

Anyway, thank you for the suggestion. Seemed interesting.
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« Reply #3526 on: November 04, 2013, 02:12:37 PM »

De Lubac is also someone I'd read, specifically "The Drama of Atheistic Humanism".

LOL. Sounds like something Fr. Seraphim Rose would write. Not the first notion that one would expect when we're talking about liberal RC theologians.

Anyway, thank you for the suggestion. Seemed interesting.
Yes the title is somehow Rose-sque.
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« Reply #3527 on: November 04, 2013, 04:24:34 PM »

Von Balthasar-Mysterium Paschale. Haven't read a theological book since the last aeon, but this is captivating.

That guy needed to take a drink.
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« Reply #3528 on: November 04, 2013, 04:31:31 PM »

Von Balthasar-Mysterium Paschale. Haven't read a theological book since the last aeon, but this is captivating.

That guy needed to take a drink.

For all we know, he might have been schnappsing daily with her:

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« Reply #3529 on: November 05, 2013, 05:35:37 PM »

Terry Southern, The Magic Christian.
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« Reply #3530 on: November 05, 2013, 06:30:07 PM »

Just finished reading Heidegger's The Question Concerning Technology for my class in phenomenology. Quite an enjoyable read.
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« Reply #3531 on: November 05, 2013, 06:31:30 PM »

Just finished reading Heidegger's The Question Concerning Technology for my class in phenomenology. Quite an enjoyable read.

Paging orthonorm...

hey Chris, can you summarize the book or give me pieces of it that you liked the most?
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« Reply #3532 on: November 05, 2013, 06:36:03 PM »

Merton's voluminous journals. More like leafing through them.
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« Reply #3533 on: November 05, 2013, 06:39:28 PM »

Just finished reading Heidegger's The Question Concerning Technology for my class in phenomenology. Quite an enjoyable read.

Paging orthonorm...

hey Chris, can you summarize the book or give me pieces of it that you liked the most?
Part of a very quick, almost free-writing, response that produced for class:

In his Encountering Technology, Heidegger states, "So long as we represent technology as an instrument, we remain held fast in the will to master it. We press on past the essence of technology." His main point in making this argument is that we as human beings tend define technology in an instrumental manner, such that its very nature is a be a tool to be exploited by society and individuals. There is some truth to this, as it is technology that we use to bend nature to our benefit. Yet, when we view technology in this manner we tend to take neutral view concerning its value, as it is evident that it can be used for either good or ill. For example, Heidegger observes that atomic energy can be exploited “either for destruction or for peaceful use.” On the one hand, human beings have used atomic energy to enact some of the greatest atrocities known to man, as in the cases of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. On the other hand, atomic energy has been used to affect great goods, such as inexpensive energy. Similarly, one might note that while guns can be used in warfare and murder, they can also be used to hunt for food or to provide self-defense. What is unfortunate about this view of technology is that it tends to keep individuals from being shocked out an intellectual apathy. As long as one feels that technology is neutral, one only need ensure that technology is used for good. But in taking this approach, one fails to reach the true nature, essence, or be-ing of technology.
For Heidegger, what is essentially true of a thing, is not merely a correct, or workable definition of a thing. Rather, what is true that which reveals what is essential to a thing, that is, what reveals its way of be-ging. There are two modes of revealing which Heidegger addresses in order to later make clear the nature of technology. The first is poiesis or poetry, which is the revealing of any art. But far more fundamental than poetry is the revealing of physis or nature. Nature is the revealing that comes out from within the thing itself. It is that by which a thing acts as it is and, thus, most truly reveals the essence of a thing. In stark contrast to this revealing of nature is the revealing of technology. Rather than simply drawing out essence of things, technology forces nature to reveal itself in a particular way, to make it stand in reserve and be used for man’s purposes. One example Heidegger provides is that of a hydroelectric bridge which transforms the be-ing of a lake into a power source.
What is interesting about this is that it involves what Heidegger calls “enframing.” Enframing comes from the root term, to frame, which means to build a fence or frame around something. In a more abstract sense, it means to focus specifically on one aspect of a thing to the exclusion of all others. In the case of technology, man purposely frames or makes nature to be in a certain way that excludes much of what is essential true of reality. Such enframing is particularly apparent in modern physics which “entraps nature as a calculable coherence of forces.” In other words, modern physics approaches reality according to the quantifiable, to what is measureable and predictable, to the exclusion of all of the rich experiences of reality made possible by immediate experience and philosophical reflection. This forces material reality to reveal itself in the standing reserve necessary for technological exploitation (in the neutral, non-value laden sense of the word). This enframing is the essence or be-ing of technology.
There is always a danger in not recognizing this essential nature because of man’s essential relationship to technology. Man is by nature involved in reality in a special way. In phenomenological terms, man is the dative of disclosure, that by which the essence of things is revealed. Thus, in a special way, man is the agent of truth and, thus, man is always involved in the revealing of things. But because enframing is the revealing into which the modern individual is born, there is a manner in which such has become part of the nature of the human being. The danger of such is in not recognizing this enframing for what it is, one can end up with a “stultified compulsion to push on blindly with technology, or what comes to the same thing, to rebel helplessly against it and curse it as the work of the devil.” While I don’t believe that the latter is as much of a concern in contemporary western culture, it appears that humanity finds itself in grave danger of the former. This is made evident in that whatever science and technology makes possible, man adopts as necessary progress. Technology creates artificial birth control, and those who object are called enemies of science and progress. Technology allows for fetal stem-cell research, and those who argue that such is the murder of human beings are called old fashioned and behind the times.


Obviously I kinda threw this together at the last minute, so it in no way does justice to Heidegger, but it might provide some insights into what Heidegger is talking about.
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« Reply #3534 on: November 05, 2013, 06:48:59 PM »

I really don't know what to say to that.
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« Reply #3535 on: November 05, 2013, 06:51:38 PM »

I really don't know what to say to that.
How did the wheel enframe locomotion perhaps?
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« Reply #3536 on: November 05, 2013, 07:04:11 PM »

IIRC that work of Heidegger's had a somewhat anti-capitalistic gist. He claimed to be horrified by the "enframing"/exploitation of human labour.
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« Reply #3537 on: November 05, 2013, 07:07:55 PM »

Currently reading Paradise Lost. A bit too Calvinist for my taste, but very good poetry.
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« Reply #3538 on: November 05, 2013, 08:26:02 PM »

Currently reading Paradise Lost. A bit too Calvinist for my taste, but very good poetry.
I have t read it but there is a French  opus simar as far as subject matter goes  called Ève  by Ch. Péguy. I read it all the time.
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« Reply #3539 on: November 05, 2013, 08:34:28 PM »

The IRS V. The People, Ed. Jack Kemp and Ken Blackwell.
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« Reply #3540 on: November 05, 2013, 08:37:27 PM »

Currently reading Paradise Lost. A bit too Calvinist for my taste, but very good poetry.
I have t read it but there is a French  opus simar as far as subject matter goes  called Ève  by Ch. Péguy. I read it all the time.

Never heard of it, but I think I might try it, if I can find it.
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« Reply #3541 on: November 05, 2013, 08:43:58 PM »

Currently reading Paradise Lost. A bit too Calvinist for my taste, but very good poetry.
Milton was actually not a Calvinist. Good on you though for reading it. One of my favorite books for sure- I have a few chunks memorized.
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« Reply #3542 on: November 05, 2013, 08:48:44 PM »

Currently reading Paradise Lost. A bit too Calvinist for my taste, but very good poetry.
Milton was actually not a Calvinist. Good on you though for reading it. One of my favorite books for sure- I have a few chunks memorized.

So the guy working as the Secretary for Cromwell, Lord Protector of Puritan England, was not a Calvinist?
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« Reply #3543 on: November 05, 2013, 08:53:04 PM »

A few books on fundamentalism.

I also hope to start reading a few books I borrowed on Aristotle.
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« Reply #3544 on: November 05, 2013, 09:13:39 PM »

I also hope to start reading a few books I borrowed on Aristotle.
Yay! I love reading Aristotle, though before acquintaince with the philosophical controversies of his time, I found his works very difficult to decode. However, after spending the past few years in his texts, reading Aristotle feels like conversing with an old friend.
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« Reply #3545 on: November 05, 2013, 09:23:44 PM »

Currently reading Paradise Lost. A bit too Calvinist for my taste, but very good poetry.
Milton was actually not a Calvinist. Good on you though for reading it. One of my favorite books for sure- I have a few chunks memorized.

So the guy working as the Secretary for Cromwell, Lord Protector of Puritan England, was not a Calvinist?

Yup. He had some very unconventional views for a Puritan.
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« Reply #3546 on: November 05, 2013, 09:26:03 PM »

Currently reading Paradise Lost. A bit too Calvinist for my taste, but very good poetry.
Milton was actually not a Calvinist. Good on you though for reading it. One of my favorite books for sure- I have a few chunks memorized.

So the guy working as the Secretary for Cromwell, Lord Protector of Puritan England, was not a Calvinist?

Yup. He had some very unconventional views for a Puritan.

Oh. News to me- my experience with Puritan writings is limited to Jonathan Edward's sermons, so I'm not exactly sure what to expect...
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« Reply #3547 on: November 05, 2013, 09:30:47 PM »

Currently reading Paradise Lost. A bit too Calvinist for my taste, but very good poetry.
Milton was actually not a Calvinist. Good on you though for reading it. One of my favorite books for sure- I have a few chunks memorized.
You ever throw up a list of your favorite books around here?
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« Reply #3548 on: November 05, 2013, 09:46:56 PM »

Currently reading Paradise Lost. A bit too Calvinist for my taste, but very good poetry.
Milton was actually not a Calvinist. Good on you though for reading it. One of my favorite books for sure- I have a few chunks memorized.

So the guy working as the Secretary for Cromwell, Lord Protector of Puritan England, was not a Calvinist?

Yup. He had some very unconventional views for a Puritan.

Oh. News to me- my experience with Puritan writings is limited to Jonathan Edward's sermons, so I'm not exactly sure what to expect...

The Puritan movement opened the gates to all kinds of crazy ideas. Milton was not completely forthright about his more dissident views, but a lot of scholars seem pretty sure that his Christology was basically Arian.
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« Reply #3549 on: November 05, 2013, 10:02:57 PM »

Dangnabit. I still like his poetry, though.
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« Reply #3550 on: November 05, 2013, 10:05:33 PM »

Dangnabit. I still like his poetry, though.

Agreed. Best blank verse, wonderfully Latin-riddled epic I've ever seen.
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« Reply #3551 on: November 06, 2013, 12:46:45 AM »

IIRC that work of Heidegger's had a somewhat anti-capitalistic gist. He claimed to be horrified by the "enframing"/exploitation of human labour.

To place Heidegger within such categories is to miss the point, which is almost always the case.

People have a real problem cause he refused to move from the ontological to answer other questions. Too many read his writing with some sorta moral bent behind it.

It can be appropriated to that end I suppose, but again I think that is to miss the point.

The Question Concerning Technology, The Origin of the Artwork, and The Age of the World Picture are rather approachable with some gentle mentoring.

I can't imagine thinking without them. A chapter or two from Being and Time would round out the above nicely.
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« Reply #3552 on: November 06, 2013, 12:49:13 AM »

IIRC that work of Heidegger's had a somewhat anti-capitalistic gist. He claimed to be horrified by the "enframing"/exploitation of human labour.

To place Heidegger within such categories is to miss the point, which is almost always the case.

People have a real problem cause he refused to move from the ontological to answer other questions. Too many read his writing with some sorta moral bent behind it.

It can be appropriated to that end I suppose, but again I think that is to miss the point.

The Question Concerning Technology, The Origin of the Artwork, and The Age of the World Picture are rather approachable with some gentle mentoring.

I can't imagine thinking without them. A chapter or two from Being and Time would round out the above nicely.
Any advice about to properly approach Being and Time?
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« Reply #3553 on: November 06, 2013, 12:56:49 AM »

IIRC that work of Heidegger's had a somewhat anti-capitalistic gist. He claimed to be horrified by the "enframing"/exploitation of human labour.

To place Heidegger within such categories is to miss the point, which is almost always the case.

People have a real problem cause he refused to move from the ontological to answer other questions. Too many read his writing with some sorta moral bent behind it.

It can be appropriated to that end I suppose, but again I think that is to miss the point.

The Question Concerning Technology, The Origin of the Artwork, and The Age of the World Picture are rather approachable with some gentle mentoring.

I can't imagine thinking without them. A chapter or two from Being and Time would round out the above nicely.
Any advice about to properly approach Being and Time?

I have a lot, but are you going to listen?

I've given advice before and people just ignore it once they realize B&T isn't C.S. Lewis or whatever. It gets boring to keep doing that. And really, B&T is rather systematic and repetitive and hardly pray to the criticism of obscurantism that some raise against him.

If you really want to get into to Heidegger, I think The Origin of the Artwork might be most approachable. Really, I think you are drawing too many "moral" lessons from what you are reading based on your post above.

We can take this to PM. Or if you really want to get serious and Shanochros, is up for it, we can take this whole thing somewhere else (we have a place) and do some reading. My head is killing me lately, but Heidegger is familiar enough not to tax it too much anymore.

Do you have to read B&T for class?
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« Reply #3554 on: November 06, 2013, 01:02:10 AM »

IIRC that work of Heidegger's had a somewhat anti-capitalistic gist. He claimed to be horrified by the "enframing"/exploitation of human labour.

To place Heidegger within such categories is to miss the point, which is almost always the case.

People have a real problem cause he refused to move from the ontological to answer other questions. Too many read his writing with some sorta moral bent behind it.

It can be appropriated to that end I suppose, but again I think that is to miss the point.

The Question Concerning Technology, The Origin of the Artwork, and The Age of the World Picture are rather approachable with some gentle mentoring.

I can't imagine thinking without them. A chapter or two from Being and Time would round out the above nicely.
Any advice about to properly approach Being and Time?

I have a lot, but are you going to listen?

I've given advice before and people just ignore it once they realize B&T isn't C.S. Lewis or whatever. It gets boring to keep doing that. And really, B&T is rather systematic and repetitive and hardly pray to the criticism of obscurantism that some raise against him.

If you really want to get into to Heidegger, I think The Origin of the Artwork might be most approachable. Really, I think you are drawing too many "moral" lessons from what you are reading based on your post above.

We can take this to PM. Or if you really want to get serious and Shanochros, is up for it, we can take this whole thing somewhere else (we have a place) and do some reading. My head is killing me lately, but Heidegger is familiar enough not to tax it too much anymore.

Do you have to read B&T for class?
I purposely drew out moral implications for the purpose of class discussion, though I recognize that Heidegger did not necessarily believe that enframing itself was a bad thing. He only cautioned that to forget the essence or being of technology can be dangerous.

That being said, yes, I am genuinely interested in reading Being and Time.

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