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Author Topic: Met. Jonah to be put on leave  (Read 24596 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #90 on: February 25, 2011, 06:16:50 PM »

What is the matter with us as Christians when so many are quick to assume that beyond the official news report, there's a simmering financial scandal or some kind of hushed up sexual impropriety?   I suppose it's our knee jerk conditioning to the many times we've been let down by the human failings of those in leadership.  However, it breeds distrust, paranoia, cynicism and eventually a dead heart towards the Church.  

Tina, from your standpoint I can understand.  On the other hand, the OCA has had TWO Metropolitans in a row forced to resign under clouds.  Even after all this, Metropolitan +Jonah has not come clean on why Metropolitans +Herman and +Theodosius were forced to resign and Fr. Robert Kondratick was de-frocked. 

I truly believe that the bishops of both the Orthodox and Catholic Churches must become LEADERS, not managers.  A leader deals with the scandal and makes sure it never happens again and the appropriate offenders are dealt with, while a manager fixes a few things and sweeps the rest under the rug.
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« Reply #91 on: February 25, 2011, 06:58:58 PM »

I pray that Mark Stokoe will resign from the Metropolitan Council.

His emotional involvement in these issues make his website unreliable and a cause of much harm to the Holy Church.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 06:59:27 PM by Maria » Logged

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« Reply #92 on: February 25, 2011, 08:43:41 PM »

Metropolitan Jonah seems like a really great guy to me. I hope everything it alright.
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« Reply #93 on: February 25, 2011, 09:03:45 PM »

Metropolitan Jonah seems like a really great guy to me. I hope everything it alright.

My thoughts exactly. I love reading his works.
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« Reply #94 on: February 25, 2011, 09:52:54 PM »

Metropolitan Jonah of the OCA Resigns? (John Sanidopoulos/Mystagogy)
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« Reply #95 on: February 25, 2011, 10:07:18 PM »

Metropolitan Jonah of the OCA Resigns? (John Sanidopoulos/Mystagogy)

Official: Metropolitan Jonah on 60-Day Retreat (John Sanidopoulos/Mystagogy)
« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 10:09:11 PM by Alveus Lacuna » Logged
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« Reply #96 on: February 25, 2011, 10:46:20 PM »

Met. Jonah takes a 2 month leave and the chancellor is fired at the same time... Sounds a bit fishy. I hope no scandal comes out of this.
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« Reply #97 on: February 25, 2011, 11:11:17 PM »

Met. Jonah takes a 2 month leave and the chancellor is fired at the same time... Sounds a bit fishy. I hope no scandal comes out of this.
The timing isn't coincidental, but there is no scandal involved. Trust me on that.
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« Reply #98 on: February 25, 2011, 11:15:42 PM »

Met. +Jonah really jumped into a fire if you recall. He was just the abbot of a wonderful monastry in CA, then a Bishop and then very shortly thereafter elevated to Metropolitan. I imagine that he needs a break. I will pray for him and assume there is no impropriety until there is a formal announcement. We should assume the best, not the worse in cases like this. Let's make sure that we don't end up turning our speculations into gossip.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 11:17:59 PM by Quinault » Logged
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« Reply #99 on: February 25, 2011, 11:53:40 PM »

Well said Quinault.  Absent any reliable uncontroverted evidence to the contrary, our default position should be to assume the best, not the worst.  We should pray for Met. Jonah and the OCA.
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« Reply #100 on: February 26, 2011, 12:40:43 AM »

Well said Quinault.  Absent any reliable uncontroverted evidence to the contrary, our default position should be to assume the best, not the worst.  We should pray for Met. Jonah and the OCA.

There is nothing to assume... Met Jonah exercised poor judgment right from the beginning concerning Patriarch Bartholomew, Russian church and the rest of orthodoxy. His carelessness of handling even some simple issues has proven to be a problem in the end. I am sure the rest of the bishops were just fed up with it. It is true, we do have to pray for him.  Sad $0.02
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« Reply #101 on: February 26, 2011, 12:44:52 AM »

Comm'on it's childish to assume there is nothing more to it than the official communique of the OCA says. It always starts with a spiritual retreat Wink
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« Reply #102 on: February 26, 2011, 12:48:37 AM »

There is no indication that there was any impropriety involved in Metropolitan Jonah's leave of absence.  But with the manner in which OCANews reported it as a forced leave, versus the OCA's reporting it as a requested leave, I wonder if the Synod is within its authority to force a leave of absence, and probably a resignation later, if there were no allegations of canonical impropriety, which no one is reporting or even speculating occurred.  Metropolitan Jonah's problems with the Holy Synod and the Metropolitan Council seems to be his appearant lack of support for the OCA's administrative processes which are mostly required by their statutes.  Can the OCA's Holy Synod force a resignation of its first hierarch for the disagreements he's been having with the administrative organs of the church?  

Also, it seems very wrong to dismiss Fr. Alexander, whose reputation is one of an exemplary clergyman and a proficient chancellor.

Finally, isn't it an anomaly to have the Temporary Administrator being a hierarch who is actively engaged in discussions with the Church of Romania that could result in his being responsible for transferring his association away from the OCA?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 12:57:54 AM by Basil 320 » Logged

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« Reply #103 on: February 26, 2011, 12:49:00 AM »

There is nothing to assume...

Then you said:

Quote
I am sure the rest of the bishops were just fed up with it.

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« Reply #104 on: February 26, 2011, 12:50:07 AM »

The part about the inaction and lack of following proper procedure of the OCA consistory as a whole dealing with problems of sexual abuse is true and has upset many.  Especially involving the upcoming court case of suspended Archbishop Seraphim in Winnipeg.
let's hope that in the future, delays and other mistakes will not be made.
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It seems to me, judging from your posting history, that you and another poster have an agenda to discredit the OCA. So I take your remarks here and your previous comments on other threads aimed at Archbishop Seraphim (who has not been found guilty of anything, whom I have known personally for over 25 years, and whom I know is innocent of the charges against him) to be nothing more than vicious slander. I have done my very best to remain quite about this matter until now, since it is before an ecclesiastical commission and civil courts and it is important for the entire truth to come out, but since you are not remaining silent, neither shall I.  
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« Reply #105 on: February 26, 2011, 12:59:26 AM »

There is nothing to assume...

Then you said:

Quote
I am sure the rest of the bishops were just fed up with it.



 Huh

Is there a problem with using words such as assume and sure? If it is, each word carries a different meaning...
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« Reply #106 on: February 26, 2011, 01:05:05 AM »

Quote
Finally, isn't it an anomaly to have the Temporary Administrator being a hierarch who is actively engaged in discussions with the Church of Romania that could result in his being responsible for transferring his association away from the OCA?
Maybe he's gonna bring the OCA under Romanian jurisdiction. The patriarch Daniel wouldn't mind it probably, as he is in serious need of cash at the moment, in order to fund the building of a pharaonic cathedral Grin
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« Reply #107 on: February 26, 2011, 01:07:02 AM »

There is nothing to assume...

Then you said:

Quote
I am sure the rest of the bishops were just fed up with it.



 Huh

Is there a problem with using words such as assume and sure? If it is, each word carries a different meaning...

I just looked at your past posts and every one of them is devoted to denigrating the OCA. Go away.
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« Reply #108 on: February 26, 2011, 02:13:16 AM »

Lord have mercy on us and save us.

Let us pray for the clergy and laity of the Orthodox Church that we may be saved.

Let us pray especially for Metropolitan Jonah who had to deal with several disagreeable persons on the Metropolitan Council including Mark Stokoe. The OCA leadership (laity and clergy) needs a spiritual renewal. I pray that Met. Jonah will come back refreshed from his retreat.
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« Reply #109 on: February 26, 2011, 02:19:58 AM »

The part about the inaction and lack of following proper procedure of the OCA consistory as a whole dealing with problems of sexual abuse is true and has upset many.  Especially involving the upcoming court case of suspended Archbishop Seraphim in Winnipeg.
let's hope that in the future, delays and other mistakes will not be made.
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It seems to me, judging from your posting history, that you and another poster have an agenda to discredit the OCA. So I take your remarks here and your previous comments on other threads aimed at Archbishop Seraphim (who has not been found guilty of anything, whom I have known personally for over 25 years, and whom I know is innocent of the charges against him) to be nothing more than vicious slander. I have done my very best to remain quite about this matter until now, since it is before an ecclesiastical commission and civil courts and it is important for the entire truth to come out, but since you are not remaining silent, neither shall I. 


Since you bring it up.....

We who support the OCA are constantly being told how only a minority recognize it, how none of the ancient patriarchates recognize it, how it is not mature, blah, blah, blah..

We are told that North America isn't the only "diaspora," that America isn't that important (I'm aware of all you Canadians, but this particular reproach is usually heaped on the Americans), that it only has money and wealth, blah, blah, blah...

We are told that the OCA isn't the largest jurisdiction, that it isn't the richest jurisdiction (although America's wealth was just depricated), blah, blah, blah...

blah..blah...blah....

but this little incident has shown how OBESSED the Greek Church (and others) are with the OCA. Here in the states I know several of those named personally, some of the insider information of what is going on etc. But I have a life to live, things to do, etc. and don't follow every movement.  But here on the other side of the globe Romfea.org has its ear to the ground in Greece as to what is going on in Syosset.  Google it in Greek, and page after page will come up.

I've looked at several phyletist sites in English, and it seems they are just itching at the keyboard.

It seems odd that for someone so "insignificant" garnaring so much attention across the globe.


My apologies to the many Greeks and others who do not live to see woe on the OCA.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 02:30:03 AM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

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« Reply #110 on: February 26, 2011, 02:23:31 AM »

I pray that Mark Stokoe will resign from the Metropolitan Council.

His emotional involvement in these issues make his website unreliable and a cause of much harm to the Holy Church.

Agreed. 
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« Reply #111 on: February 26, 2011, 02:30:58 AM »

Also, it seems very wrong to dismiss Fr. Alexander, whose reputation is one of an exemplary clergyman and a proficient chancellor.
Indeed! A worthy (adopted) grandson of Abp. John of blessed memory.
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« Reply #112 on: February 26, 2011, 05:31:03 AM »

Just as a note...

At the last meeting for the Diocese of the Midwest, the Clergy and others expressed to Metropolitan Jonah their personal concern for his wellbeing, especially physically.. They expressed that they don't want to happen to him what happened to blessed Archbishop Job.
Apparently Metropolitan Jonah (at the time) had been ill, and visibly wasn't well.

While that was a few months ago, it may be that being Metropolitan has taken both a physical and spiritual toll on him and he may just need a break.

I honestly respect his decision. Even if he did say something wrong, I personally see it as commendable for him to retreat a little and reflect. He is a monk after all, and was only made Metropolitan 2-3 years ago. Before that, he'd spent 12 years as a monk. 2-3 years as Metropolitan don't erase the 12 years as a monk.

It might just be the case that he feels something is wrong (and I don't mean a scandal) and needs to retreat and reflect.

I honestly wish more Bishops would do the same, especially if something happens where they say something that might be harmful to someone(s). I won't name names, but I'm sure we can all think of them. It'd be good for us to keep this in mind for ourselves. If we hurt someone, we shouldn't go on as if nothing happened. We need to step back, reflect and draw closer to God.
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« Reply #113 on: February 26, 2011, 05:40:41 AM »

Another great example of why rumors on the Internet spread like wildfire - they are hot, fast and burn indiscriminately.

I agree!
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« Reply #114 on: February 26, 2011, 12:20:58 PM »

Just as a note...

At the last meeting for the Diocese of the Midwest, the Clergy and others expressed to Metropolitan Jonah their personal concern for his wellbeing, especially physically.. They expressed that they don't want to happen to him what happened to blessed Archbishop Job.
Apparently Metropolitan Jonah (at the time) had been ill, and visibly wasn't well.

While that was a few months ago, it may be that being Metropolitan has taken both a physical and spiritual toll on him and he may just need a break.

I honestly respect his decision. Even if he did say something wrong, I personally see it as commendable for him to retreat a little and reflect. He is a monk after all, and was only made Metropolitan 2-3 years ago. Before that, he'd spent 12 years as a monk. 2-3 years as Metropolitan don't erase the 12 years as a monk.

It might just be the case that he feels something is wrong (and I don't mean a scandal) and needs to retreat and reflect.

I honestly wish more Bishops would do the same, especially if something happens where they say something that might be harmful to someone(s). I won't name names, but I'm sure we can all think of them. It'd be good for us to keep this in mind for ourselves. If we hurt someone, we shouldn't go on as if nothing happened. We need to step back, reflect and draw closer to God.

This could merely be a health issue. Living in DC we do hear a lot about the Met and the many many commitments he has and his many appearances. He is very busy and... how shall I put this... He is a bit heavy. A legit rest and diet may be in order.
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« Reply #115 on: February 26, 2011, 01:01:04 PM »

As I read these pages, I can't help but think that we try to view our jurisdictional issues as a sporting event. There seems to be the OCA team and the Greek team. The OCA team and its passionate fans view themselves as the plucky, small market team who succeeds in spite of all odds (like the Steelers in football or the Twins in baseball). The Greek team and its supporters are large in number and have access to temporal power and money that the OCA team can only dream about. I suspect that they are viewed as the Yankees (baseball's 'evil empire') or the football Cowboys.

Frankly this is just stupid.

I respect both jurisdictions as I know many fine priests and hierarchs from both and have many friends in both.

I will remember Met. Jonah in my prayers and I will continue to pray for a resolution to the many serious issues which stand in the way of true Orthodox unity in the Americas should that be God's will.

Time to move on....
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« Reply #116 on: February 26, 2011, 04:19:15 PM »

The whole mess makes me sad.

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« Reply #117 on: February 26, 2011, 05:07:53 PM »

Just as a note...

At the last meeting for the Diocese of the Midwest, the Clergy and others expressed to Metropolitan Jonah their personal concern for his wellbeing, especially physically.. They expressed that they don't want to happen to him what happened to blessed Archbishop Job.
Apparently Metropolitan Jonah (at the time) had been ill, and visibly wasn't well.

While that was a few months ago, it may be that being Metropolitan has taken both a physical and spiritual toll on him and he may just need a break.

I honestly respect his decision. Even if he did say something wrong, I personally see it as commendable for him to retreat a little and reflect. He is a monk after all, and was only made Metropolitan 2-3 years ago. Before that, he'd spent 12 years as a monk. 2-3 years as Metropolitan don't erase the 12 years as a monk.

It might just be the case that he feels something is wrong (and I don't mean a scandal) and needs to retreat and reflect.

I honestly wish more Bishops would do the same, especially if something happens where they say something that might be harmful to someone(s). I won't name names, but I'm sure we can all think of them. It'd be good for us to keep this in mind for ourselves. If we hurt someone, we shouldn't go on as if nothing happened. We need to step back, reflect and draw closer to God.

This could merely be a health issue. Living in DC we do hear a lot about the Met and the many many commitments he has and his many appearances. He is very busy and... how shall I put this... He is a bit heavy. A legit rest and diet may be in order.

I hate to say it, but it's true that his weight is likely a part of the problem.  He may not feel free to limit his portions when he's being served food by other people, and it's not easy to diet when you are constantly traveling. 

Others have mentioned that he has looked especially tired, and I wonder if he should be evaluated for sleep apnea.  Sleep apnea is prevalent in people of his size, and it would certainly make him fatigued.
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« Reply #118 on: February 26, 2011, 05:19:40 PM »

Lord have mercy.
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« Reply #119 on: February 26, 2011, 05:31:02 PM »

I find Voices from Russia to be pretty insightful when it comes to these affairs.
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« Reply #120 on: February 26, 2011, 06:59:33 PM »

I pray that Mark Stokoe will resign from the Metropolitan Council.

His emotional involvement in these issues make his website unreliable and a cause of much harm to the Holy Church.

Agreed. 

Same here too...
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« Reply #121 on: February 26, 2011, 07:04:51 PM »

I find Voices from Russia to be pretty insightful when it comes to these affairs.

So do I.  Terms like 'autocephalous fanaticals' turn me off.  It's like the pot calling the kettle black.  After readinf 'voices from Russia' I was completely turned off by what was contained in the posts.

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« Reply #122 on: February 26, 2011, 07:05:55 PM »

I pray that Mark Stokoe will resign from the Metropolitan Council.

His emotional involvement in these issues make his website unreliable and a cause of much harm to the Holy Church.

Agreed. 

That makes three of us.

Orthodoc

Same here too...
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« Reply #123 on: February 26, 2011, 09:16:10 PM »

The part about the inaction and lack of following proper procedure of the OCA consistory as a whole dealing with problems of sexual abuse is true and has upset many.  Especially involving the upcoming court case of suspended Archbishop Seraphim in Winnipeg.
let's hope that in the future, delays and other mistakes will not be made.
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It seems to me, judging from your posting history, that you and another poster have an agenda to discredit the OCA. So I take your remarks here and your previous comments on other threads aimed at Archbishop Seraphim (who has not been found guilty of anything, whom I have known personally for over 25 years, and whom I know is innocent of the charges against him) to be nothing more than vicious slander. I have done my very best to remain quite about this matter until now, since it is before an ecclesiastical commission and civil courts and it is important for the entire truth to come out, but since you are not remaining silent, neither shall I.  


This is an irrational statement to say the least.  The trial has not started so no one can “know” what the verdict will be.
The OCA handled the whole problem of Archbishop Seraphim wrongly: the proper procedure is to have a priest or in this case a hierarch step aside while the case is investigated.  Not have him issue a statement that he is taking a leave of absence for health reasons just before the newspapers announce that he is charged with a crime.
As for Metropolitan Jonah, the OCA should be transparent and issue a statement about what is going on not the old lame taking a leave of absence for “reasons of health.”
This has happened in the past, when  Metropolitan Irinei  kept taking leaves from 1974-1977. The same with Metropolitan Theodosius before he retired in 2004. Next Metropolitan Herman asked for a leave of absence which was denied before his retirement and the next election of a metropolitan.  These “leaves of absences” covered up serious problems.
And a lack of transparency is not by any means unique to the OCA.  All of our Orthodox jurisdictions have problems.  But let’s be honest and have transparency in all our Orthodox jurisdictions.

And as far as I know Bishop Irenee (OCA Canada) really does have health problems probably from all the stress.  But he is hanging in there.

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Pravoslavbob
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« Reply #124 on: February 26, 2011, 11:56:50 PM »

It seems to me, judging from your posting history, that you and another poster have an agenda to discredit the OCA. So I take your remarks here and your previous comments on other threads aimed at Archbishop Seraphim (who has not been found guilty of anything, whom I have known personally for over 25 years, and whom I know is innocent of the charges against him) to be nothing more than vicious slander. I have done my very best to remain quite about this matter until now, since it is before an ecclesiastical commission and civil courts and it is important for the entire truth to come out, but since you are not remaining silent, neither shall I.  


This is an irrational statement to say the least.  The trial has not started so no one can “know” what the verdict will be.


I am sure of what I know because of intellectual and noetic knowledge.  I don't care if you think it is irrational.  If Orest hadn't insisted on carrying on about this matter, I would have kept silent, as I was from late September last year until today.


The OCA handled the whole problem of Archbishop Seraphim wrongly: the proper procedure is to have a priest or in this case a hierarch step aside while the case is investigated.  Not have him issue a statement that he is taking a leave of absence for health reasons just before the newspapers announce that he is charged with a crime.

Yes, this was handled very badly.   (Just for the sake of clarity and accuracy, Archbishop Seraphim was not actually charged until some time after the announcement that he was stepping aside for health reasons, although speculation that he might be charged made a media splash right after this announcement.)


And a lack of transparency is not by any means unique to the OCA.  All of our Orthodox jurisdictions have problems.  But let’s be honest and have transparency in all our Orthodox jurisdictions.

So nice of you to offer this olive branch.  But a cursory glance at your posts since the Pochaiv icon visited Canada in the autumn of 2009, and the fact that you have reported my last post to the moderators shows that you also are clearly no great friend of the OCA.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 10:01:05 PM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

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« Reply #125 on: February 27, 2011, 01:40:47 PM »

This was posted by the OCA this morning:

http://vimeo.com/20435460

Met. Jonah explains the nature of his retreat in order to quell rumors and innuendo.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 01:42:10 PM by Orual » Logged

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« Reply #126 on: February 27, 2011, 02:39:03 PM »

^thanks for posting.
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« Reply #127 on: February 27, 2011, 03:07:58 PM »

This was posted by the OCA this morning:

http://vimeo.com/20435460

Met. Jonah explains the nature of his retreat in order to quell rumors and innuendo.

Thank you for this.
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« Reply #128 on: February 27, 2011, 04:14:08 PM »

This was posted by the OCA this morning:

http://vimeo.com/20435460

Met. Jonah explains the nature of his retreat in order to quell rumors and innuendo.

If this doesn't stop the rumors, nothing will.  I remembered Met. Jonah and the OCA during the Litany of Frevent Supplication.
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« Reply #129 on: February 27, 2011, 05:55:18 PM »

We commemorated Met Jonah as Metropolitan this morning in the liturgy.
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« Reply #130 on: February 27, 2011, 07:16:51 PM »

I pray that Mark Stokoe will resign from the Metropolitan Council.

His emotional involvement in these issues make his website unreliable and a cause of much harm to the Holy Church.

Agreed. 

That makes three of us.

Orthodoc

Same here too...

I made the mistake of reading what Mr. Stokoe posted.  Except that I learned first hand that you can't believe everything you read.

I was at the Oratorio of Met. Hilarion in Dallas, stayed for the reception following, received a blessing from Metropolitan Hilarion just before he left to catch a flight, then later chatted with his Beatitude Jonah.  So Mr. Stokoe's information about Met. Jonah erupting and leaving Met. Hilarion in Dallas, with the subsequent confusion on the part of Met. Hilarion about it, is patently false unless I chatted with his beatitude's identical twin.

It leaves me questioning everything else on Mr. Stokoe's site, and I think it not beneficial for my own peace of mind to read that stuff.

I am very glad Metropolitan Jonah is taking a break, and pray that he'll be refreshed.
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« Reply #131 on: February 27, 2011, 07:22:58 PM »

I will remember Met. Jonah in my prayers and I will continue to pray for a resolution to the many serious issues which stand in the way of true Orthodox unity in the Americas should that be God's will.

Time to move on....
[/quote]


Thank you.  Our Liturgy (OCA, Sacramento, CA) this morning included prayers at the usual places in the rubrics for our Metropolitan, so he has not resigned nor has he been deposed.
We even had a parish wide mini-council on property build-out, and there was not even a question on the Metropolitan's status -- or about our Bishop, who has been mentioned unkindly on those muckraking web sites.
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« Reply #132 on: February 27, 2011, 08:19:29 PM »

I find Voices from Russia to be pretty insightful when it comes to these affairs.

So do I.  Terms like 'autocephalous fanaticals' turn me off.  It's like the pot calling the kettle black.  After readinf 'voices from Russia' I was completely turned off by what was contained in the posts.

Orthodoc

Yes; pure venom and so much one-sided that you could take everything he/she says and turn it on its head to arrive at a good approximation of the true situation. Rather like the "good old days" when we did this with Pravda.
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« Reply #133 on: February 27, 2011, 08:30:14 PM »

Somehow my download was corrupted. I tried to download it three times and at the same place it malfunctioned when it talked about preparing for Great Lent.

Could someone kindly give me a synopsis?

Thanks.
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« Reply #134 on: February 27, 2011, 08:31:36 PM »

I find Voices from Russia to be pretty insightful when it comes to these affairs.

So do I.  Terms like 'autocephalous fanaticals' turn me off.  It's like the pot calling the kettle black.  After readinf 'voices from Russia' I was completely turned off by what was contained in the posts.

Orthodoc

Yes; pure venom and so much one-sided that you could take everything he/she says and turn it on its head to arrive at a good approximation of the true situation. Rather like the "good old days" when we did this with Pravda.

Have you ever read The Dark is Rising by Susan Cooper? Makes you wonder what side Mark Stokoe is on.

If gossip harms the Holy Church, then is it not of the Light.

Let us pray for Metropolitan Jonah and Mark Stokoe that they may be saved.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 08:33:13 PM by Maria » Logged

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