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Author Topic: Met. Jonah to be put on leave  (Read 22859 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2011, 01:37:21 PM »

Its true...the Holy Synod put him om premanent leave.. Arbp.National is the locum tenons.....the ew Metropolitan will be elected at the next AAC
Were you drunk when you typed this?
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« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2011, 01:40:35 PM »

Could you please explain what you are referring to here?  What glorified saints?  What heretical church?

I think he's talking about Constantinople in the fourth and fifth century: St. Gregory the Theologian (booted), St. John Chrysostom (booted), and Nestorius, whose followers still constitute their own church even today (unlike the Arians who eventually fell to the Frankish sword).

Only slightly complicated thing: It was St. John Chrysostom who did the most to extend Constantinople's authority over surrounding Metropolitical Sees (eventually leading to Canon 28). And that's definitely a no no, according to Isa.  Grin
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« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2011, 01:48:00 PM »

Me too, what are you talking about, almisry?  Who are these saintly primates and from what church did they resign?
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« Reply #48 on: February 25, 2011, 01:48:08 PM »

He's talking about Constantinople in the fourth and fifth century: St. Gregory the Theologian (booted), St. John Chrysostom (booted), and Nestorius, whose followers still exist.

Only slightly complicated thing: It was St. John Chrysostom who did the most to extend Constantinople's authority over surrounding Metropolitical Sees (eventually leading to Canon 28).

Thank you for clarifying!  I thought he was referring to the first 41 yrs of OCA's autocephally, which is why I was puzzled.
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« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2011, 01:51:56 PM »

He's talking about Constantinople in the fourth and fifth century: St. Gregory the Theologian (booted), St. John Chrysostom (booted), and Nestorius, whose followers still exist.

Only slightly complicated thing: It was St. John Chrysostom who did the most to extend Constantinople's authority over surrounding Metropolitical Sees (eventually leading to Canon 28).

Thank you for clarifying!  I thought he was referring to the first 41 yrs of OCA's autocephally, which is why I was puzzled.

No. His ultimate point is that he still believes, despite all the scandals, that the OCA is A-OK because Constantinople had a very rocky history in the early years of its own autocephaly.
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« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2011, 01:57:13 PM »

No. His ultimate point is that he still believes, despite all the scandals, that the OCA is A-OK because Constantinople had a very rocky history in the early years of its own autocephaly.

Yeah, good luck with that position! 

I'm not sure if most would compare Met Herman or even Met Jonah with Sts. Gregory the Theologian or John Chrysostom, but I would love to see the position of the Metropolitan of the OCA be occupied by a saintly person.  I think this is something to pray for! 
« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 02:00:35 PM by jah777 » Logged
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« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2011, 02:01:51 PM »

Could you please explain what you are referring to here?  What glorified saints?  What heretical church?

I think he's talking about Constantinople in the fourth and fifth century: St. Gregory the Theologian (booted), St. John Chrysostom (booted), and Nestorius, whose followers still constitute their own church even today (unlike the Arians who eventually fell to the Frankish sword).

Only slightly complicated thing: It was St. John Chrysostom who did the most to extend Constantinople's authority over surrounding Metropolitical Sees (eventually leading to Canon 28). And that's definitely a no no, according to Isa.  Grin
yes, but he didn't seize territory from sees which were defined already by Ecumenical Council as having precedence before him. In fact, his extension of authority was to intervene in the affairs of other Dioceses, and IIRC by their own request. When you have your own earned prestige and moral authority, it tends to rub off on your see.  When you don't, well, you tend to press twisted texts into service to legitimize your outlandish claims.
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« Reply #52 on: February 25, 2011, 02:02:08 PM »

Its true...the Holy Synod put him om premanent leave.. Arbp.National is the locum tenons.....the ew Metropolitan will be elected at the next AAC
Were you drunk when you typed this?
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« Reply #53 on: February 25, 2011, 02:05:32 PM »

He's talking about Constantinople in the fourth and fifth century: St. Gregory the Theologian (booted), St. John Chrysostom (booted), and Nestorius, whose followers still exist.

Only slightly complicated thing: It was St. John Chrysostom who did the most to extend Constantinople's authority over surrounding Metropolitical Sees (eventually leading to Canon 28).

Thank you for clarifying!  I thought he was referring to the first 41 yrs of OCA's autocephally, which is why I was puzzled.

No. His ultimate point is that he still believes, despite all the scandals, that the OCA is A-OK because Constantinople had a very rocky history in the early years of its own autocephaly.
Oh, not just Constantinople, and not just in the beginning. Pat. Juvenaly, who got Jerusalem's autocephaly restored, was a complete scoundrel, and achieved his goal by ways that would make Tallyrand blush.

Our priest was just recounting a speech that Met. Philip gave that was basically "Up with Antioch!" recalling its glories, until he made the statement that "most heresies came from Antioch too."
« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 02:06:49 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #54 on: February 25, 2011, 02:36:29 PM »

Its true...the Holy Synod put him om premanent leave.. Arbp.National is the locum tenons.....the ew Metropolitan will be elected at the next AAC
its on ocanews.org........Mark Stokoe is a member of the Metropolitan Council

So, typos aside...

From ocanews:

"Metropolitan Jonah has indeed been placed on a leave of absence, and that indeed +Nathaniel has been named as a temporary replacement."
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« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2011, 02:44:58 PM »

Should be very interesting to see how this plays out...I guess we should pray for the Church and all of the people involved including Met.Jonah.The next All American Council should be very interesting.....
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« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2011, 03:09:41 PM »

Should be very interesting to see how this plays out...I guess we should pray for the Church and all of the people involved including Met.Jonah.The next All American Council should be very interesting.....

Oh to be an observer at that Council.  Still the official OCA web site is silent.  Don't they realize that their silence is fuel for rumors to spread.  I can imagine people are trying to put a new spin on that unofficial visit of His Beatitude to Russia.  It hurts me, since I was received into the Orthodox Church via the OCA.
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« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2011, 03:11:40 PM »

Should be very interesting to see how this plays out...I guess we should pray for the Church and all of the people involved including Met.Jonah.The next All American Council should be very interesting.....

Oh to be an observer at that Council.  Still the official OCA web site is silent.  Don't they realize that their silence is fuel for rumors to spread.  I can imagine people are trying to put a new spin on that unofficial visit of His Beatitude to Russia.  It hurts me, since I was received into the Orthodox Church via the OCA.

Agreed.  The silence is embarrassing. 

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« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2011, 03:13:44 PM »

Lord have Mercy on the OCA.

Amen!
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« Reply #59 on: February 25, 2011, 03:15:41 PM »

Fr. Joseph Fester (another 'very senior OCA priest' with close ties to the Metropolitan) just posted the following to our parish mailing list:

"His Beatitude is going to take a rest but he is not on a Leave of Absence.  As we all know, his schedule for the past three years has been heroic but it does take its toll.

So he is going to take the time of the Great Fast to rest, retreat, and regain his strength.  He truly appreciates your love, prayers and concern.

Fr. Alexander Garklavs has resigned.  His Beatitude is grateful for his service.
Bishop Melchisadek has accepted to be the interim chancellor.  Archbishop Nathaniel will assist His Beatitude when necessary while the Metropolitan is retreating."
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« Reply #60 on: February 25, 2011, 03:19:41 PM »

Fr. Joseph Fester (another 'very senior OCA priest' with close ties to the Metropolitan) just posted the following to our parish mailing list:

"His Beatitude is going to take a rest but he is not on a Leave of Absence.  As we all know, his schedule for the past three years has been heroic but it does take its toll.

So he is going to take the time of the Great Fast to rest, retreat, and regain his strength.  He truly appreciates your love, prayers and concern.

Fr. Alexander Garklavs has resigned.  His Beatitude is grateful for his service.
Bishop Melchisadek has accepted to be the interim chancellor.  Archbishop Nathaniel will assist His Beatitude when necessary while the Metropolitan is retreating."


That last word "retreating" sure has a double meaning...lol
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« Reply #61 on: February 25, 2011, 03:22:01 PM »

Fr. Joseph Fester (another 'very senior OCA priest' with close ties to the Metropolitan) just posted the following to our parish mailing list:

"His Beatitude is going to take a rest but he is not on a Leave of Absence.  As we all know, his schedule for the past three years has been heroic but it does take its toll.

So he is going to take the time of the Great Fast to rest, retreat, and regain his strength.  He truly appreciates your love, prayers and concern.

Fr. Alexander Garklavs has resigned.  His Beatitude is grateful for his service.
Bishop Melchisadek has accepted to be the interim chancellor.  Archbishop Nathaniel will assist His Beatitude when necessary while the Metropolitan is retreating."

Unfortunately, Fr. John Fester is considered to be a another "problematic" clergyman in the OCA.

See these comments about Fr. Fester’s role  in the Special Investigative Report, issued by the OCA in September 2008, under a special heading entitled “The Inner Circle”:


“11. The “Inner Circle.” Fathers David Brum and Joseph Fester served as confidants to Kondratick. They were regarded by others at the Chancery as part of an “inner circle,” responsible for day-to-day operations at the Chancery. As such, one would expect them to be aware of at least some of Kondratick’s financial dealings. Both denied such knowledge to the SIC.

However, they never questioned Kondratick’s largesse in extending favors (meals, gifts, and travel) believing them to be an expression of an exaggerated generosity. Questionable dealings and misdeeds brought to their attention in interviews were excused as having been “blessed” by one Metropolitan or the other, or because of “the incompetence of Strikis, “or because Wheeler or Kozey had an axe to grind. “
- (SIC Report page 27)

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« Reply #62 on: February 25, 2011, 03:26:59 PM »

After reading this thread I find it difficult to believe anything that our clergy says anymore. Why are we waiting for an "official" announcement? How will we be able to believe that account if all the others are false? Lord have Mercy!
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« Reply #63 on: February 25, 2011, 03:29:23 PM »

Its true...the Holy Synod put him om premanent leave.. Arbp.National is the locum tenons.....the ew Metropolitan will be elected at the next AAC
its on ocanews.org........Mark Stokoe is a member of the Metropolitan Council

So, typos aside...

From ocanews:

"Metropolitan Jonah has indeed been placed on a leave of absence, and that indeed +Nathaniel has been named as a temporary replacement."

Excellent point for this is Mark Stokoe's assessment even after reporting the allegation by Bishop Tikhon (retired) that the Metropolitan was forcibly retired. I think we need to be patient; I think by Sunday the situation will be much clearer.
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« Reply #64 on: February 25, 2011, 03:35:17 PM »

Until then we have the power of prayer.  Pray...pray real hard for the OCA, its leadership and its laity.  God knows they need our prayers.  Why pray for them?  If the least of our brothers and sisters is suffering, we suffer, too.
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« Reply #65 on: February 25, 2011, 03:38:03 PM »

Should be very interesting to see how this plays out...I guess we should pray for the Church and all of the people involved including Met.Jonah.The next All American Council should be very interesting.....

Oh to be an observer at that Council.  Still the official OCA web site is silent.  Don't they realize that their silence is fuel for rumors to spread.  I can imagine people are trying to put a new spin on that unofficial visit of His Beatitude to Russia.  It hurts me, since I was received into the Orthodox Church via the OCA.

Agreed.  The silence is embarrassing. 



The rumor was leaked before they even had a chance for the dust to settle.  It takes time to get a press release together.  Please cut them some slack for being human.
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« Reply #66 on: February 25, 2011, 03:45:02 PM »

Fr. Joseph's direct knowledge of the current status of all involved is based on his direct access to those individuals, regardless of what you may think about him personally--as opposed to the numerous unsourced rumors that are being bandied about here and elsewhere.
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« Reply #67 on: February 25, 2011, 03:55:15 PM »

If Met. Jonah is just taking a break, do you think OCA will even have a news release? Or do you think they will issue something anyways to put all the controversy/hearsay to rest?
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« Reply #68 on: February 25, 2011, 04:01:21 PM »

I spoke with His Beatitude a short while ago.

He is not being "put on leave" by the Synod, but will take a short break from his usual duties - the first in two years. No resignation is in the offing, either.

May God enable the Metropolitan the Holy Synod to lead us in by example in mutual love, reconciliation and repentance during the last days of our preparation for and in upcoming Lenten season.  
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« Reply #69 on: February 25, 2011, 04:01:45 PM »

This just in:

http://www.oca.org/news/2430
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« Reply #70 on: February 25, 2011, 04:05:47 PM »

No matter what happens, let us not lose hope or be discouraged in our faith and in our Church.  I think most of us are so shocked and upset because we have placed a huge amount of faith, love and trust in Met. Jonah.  He came into our lives like a "savior", but we should never forget who are ultimate Savior is - the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.  Prayer is our only hope right now.
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« Reply #71 on: February 25, 2011, 04:06:26 PM »

What a relief. Alert is over.

Why they can't make Bp Mark a diocesan Bishop instead of that locum temens - administrator distinction?
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« Reply #72 on: February 25, 2011, 04:08:46 PM »


What exactly is a Chancellor?  What is his role?
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« Reply #73 on: February 25, 2011, 04:10:34 PM »

I spoke with His Beatitude a short while ago.

He is not being "put on leave" by the Synod, but will take a short break from his usual duties - the first in two years. No resignation is in the offing, either.

May God enable the Metropolitan the Holy Synod to lead us in by example in mutual love, reconciliation and repentance during the last days of our preparation for and in upcoming Lenten season.  

Good for him.  I hope this will be a spiritually profitable Great Lent for His Beatitude.
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« Reply #74 on: February 25, 2011, 04:10:53 PM »

Another great example of why rumors on the Internet spread like wildfire - they are hot, fast and burn indiscriminately.
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« Reply #75 on: February 25, 2011, 04:11:57 PM »

What a relief. Alert is over.

Why they can't make Bp Mark a diocesan Bishop instead of that locum temens - administrator distinction?

Because we in the Diocese get some say in the election of our new bishop and that has not happened yet. I've been under the assumption since Bishop Mark was assigned here as administrator that that makes him the front-runner to become our new diocesan bishop (and that that is in fact why he was assigned here)--but that won't happen at least until the next Diocesan Assembly.
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« Reply #76 on: February 25, 2011, 04:17:45 PM »

www.oca.org
Holy Synod Announces Changes
Posted 02/25

SYOSSET, NY [OCA] -- From February 22-24, 2011, the Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America participated in a retreat in Santa Fe, New Mexico. His Beatitude, Metropolitan JONAH led the hierarchs in a review of matters affecting the life of the Orthodox Church in America, including the OCA strategic plan, preparations for the upcoming Assembly of Bishops and plans for the 16th All American Council in Seattle.


The rest of this article can be read here: http://www.oca.org/news/2430

Post truncated to make compliant with new forum policy on quoting news articles: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13455.msg456852.html#msg456852

-PtA
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« Reply #77 on: February 25, 2011, 04:42:08 PM »

What a relief. Alert is over.

It is good to hope for the best, and for now it seems best to accept the news story on the official site.  Things are not always as they seem, however.  Remember that the official OCA news announcement regarding Met. Herman was that he requested retirement on account of his health.  It became clear quite quickly, however, that there was much more to the story.  Speculation, however, is not profitable beyond the troubles that have been revealed.  Let us use the Lenten period to fast and pray for the OCA and for the salvation of our own souls, and see what happens in 60 days.
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« Reply #78 on: February 25, 2011, 04:49:42 PM »

What a relief. Alert is over.

It is good to hope for the best, and for now it seems best to accept the news story on the official site.  Things are not always as they seem, however.  Remember that the official OCA news announcement regarding Met. Herman was that he requested retirement on account of his health.  It became clear quite quickly, however, that there was much more to the story.  Speculation, however, is not profitable beyond the troubles that have been revealed.  Let us use the Lenten period to fast and pray for the OCA and for the salvation of our own souls, and see what happens in 60 days.
Yes, I forgot about the Metr. Herman "for my health" ect.
The same can be said about Archbishop Seraphim's letter about a leave of absence followed by the news on Canadian TV and in the Winnipeg Free Press that he was being charged with 2 counts of sex abuse of minors.
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« Reply #79 on: February 25, 2011, 05:04:44 PM »

What a relief. Alert is over.

It is good to hope for the best, and for now it seems best to accept the news story on the official site.  Things are not always as they seem, however.  Remember that the official OCA news announcement regarding Met. Herman was that he requested retirement on account of his health.  It became clear quite quickly, however, that there was much more to the story.  Speculation, however, is not profitable beyond the troubles that have been revealed.  Let us use the Lenten period to fast and pray for the OCA and for the salvation of our own souls, and see what happens in 60 days.

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« Reply #80 on: February 25, 2011, 05:10:50 PM »

Lets fast and pray and hope for the best...I too remember Met.Herman and the "health"  letter...boy was that a crock!
I wonder what they will say in 60 days...those of us who have been around have certainly seen it all...
it is never dull in American Orthodoxy..
I hate organized religion...thats why I'm Orthodox1
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« Reply #81 on: February 25, 2011, 05:12:09 PM »

Some of remember all too well what one of our bishops went through with total exhaustion.  Poor Bishop Daniel landed himself in the hospital.  Hopefully His Beatitude will have time to rebuild his physical, as well as his spiritual health.  
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« Reply #82 on: February 25, 2011, 05:24:54 PM »


Remember it very well.  His flock was very concerned for his well-being.  Thank God he is recovered and back at the helm.

May the Lord have mercy on Metr. Jonah, and all of us.

For as it was mentioned before - we are all in this together.
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« Reply #83 on: February 25, 2011, 05:30:55 PM »

Some of remember all too well what one of our bishops went through with total exhaustion.  Poor Bishop Daniel landed himself in the hospital.  Hopefully His Beatitude will have time to rebuild his physical, as well as his spiritual health.  

Very good Father.  "We are members one of another."   Hopefully we all are praying for the health of His Beatitude, the health of the OCA, and the health of all the hierarchs, clergy, and brothers and sisters in the Lord in the Lord's Holy Orthodox Church here in America (in addition to our brothers and sisters living in the turmoil of africa and the middle east).  
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« Reply #84 on: February 25, 2011, 05:36:06 PM »

Some of remember all too well what one of our bishops went through with total exhaustion.  Poor Bishop Daniel landed himself in the hospital.  Hopefully His Beatitude will have time to rebuild his physical, as well as his spiritual health.  
And we remember what happened to Arbp. Job of blessed memory. Memory Eternal!
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« Reply #85 on: February 25, 2011, 05:37:10 PM »

What a relief. Alert is over.

It is good to hope for the best, and for now it seems best to accept the news story on the official site.  Things are not always as they seem, however.  Remember that the official OCA news announcement regarding Met. Herman was that he requested retirement on account of his health.  It became clear quite quickly, however, that there was much more to the story.  Speculation, however, is not profitable beyond the troubles that have been revealed.  Let us use the Lenten period to fast and pray for the OCA and for the salvation of our own souls, and see what happens in 60 days.

Amen
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« Reply #86 on: February 25, 2011, 05:39:31 PM »

What is the matter with us as Christians when so many are quick to assume that beyond the official news report, there's a simmering financial scandal or some kind of hushed up sexual impropriety?   I suppose it's our knee jerk conditioning to the many times we've been let down by the human failings of those in leadership.  However, it breeds distrust, paranoia, cynicism and eventually a dead heart towards the Church.  
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« Reply #87 on: February 25, 2011, 05:43:43 PM »


Remember it very well.  His flock was very concerned for his well-being.  Thank God he is recovered and back at the helm.

May the Lord have mercy on Metr. Jonah, and all of us.

For as it was mentioned before - we are all in this together.


Very true Liza!   Especially as we approach the Sunday of the Last Judgment, "their" problems are really "our" problems.   Woe to us if we hear from the Lord at the last judgment that He was naked and we gave Him not at least the clothing of prayer and love, or that He was sick and we did not visit Him.   We ARE all in this together, because He is in it, and we are in Him.  
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« Reply #88 on: February 25, 2011, 05:45:20 PM »

Some of remember all too well what one of our bishops went through with total exhaustion.  Poor Bishop Daniel landed himself in the hospital.  Hopefully His Beatitude will have time to rebuild his physical, as well as his spiritual health.  
And we remember what happened to Arbp. Job of blessed memory. Memory Eternal!

I have such fond memories, when His Eminence was my bishop when I was a member of Holy Trinity Cathedral, in Boston.  Memory Eternal!
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« Reply #89 on: February 25, 2011, 06:06:16 PM »

What is the matter with us as Christians when so many are quick to assume that beyond the official news report, there's a simmering financial scandal or some kind of hushed up sexual impropriety?   I suppose it's our knee jerk conditioning to the many times we've been let down by the human failings of those in leadership.  However, it breeds distrust, paranoia, cynicism and eventually a dead heart towards the Church.  

I agree, its not good.  But sometimes I think we are looking too much for the Church to be the "perfect church" rather than as a spiritual hospital.  Even high-ranking surgeons and physicians on the hospital board get sick, and sometimes seriously ill.   The type of sickness and the behavioral reaction to their sickness determines whether they are removed from their positions of authority, their positions, or their practice of medicine.   That we are quick to assume that an illness breeds a scandal before the facts come in says more about the state of our individual and collective spiritual health than it does about anything else.   If those that are part of the problem or part of the solution are to suspend judgment until all the facts come in, how much moreso those of us that are not part of either one?        
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