Author Topic: ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.  (Read 4206 times)

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Offline Bogoliubtsy

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ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« on: May 08, 2004, 11:08:14 PM »
A Delegation of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia headed by
His Eminence Metropolitan Laurus will depart for Russia on May 13

His Eminence Archbishop Kyrill of San Francisco and Western America will arrive in New York on May12, along with most of the members of the delegation living in the USA, and will depart for Russia with His Eminence Metropolitan Laurus. A service of supplication will be performed at the Synodal Cathedral on 13 May, after which His Eminence Vladyka Laurus will speak to the participants of the delegation on their trip. His Eminence will be accompanied from New York by the following:

His Eminence Archbishop Kyrill; Mitred Protopriest George Larin, Secretary of the Eastern American Diocese; Protopriest Stefan Pavlenko, Rector of the Church of All Russian Saints in Burlingame, CA; Protopriest Alexander Lebedeff, Rector of Holy Transfiguration Cathedral in Los Angeles; Protopriest Peter Perekrestov, Senior Priest of the Cathedral of the Mother of God "Joy of All Who Sorrow" in San Francisco; Hegumen George (Schaefer) of Holy Trinity Monastery; Priest Serafim Gan of the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Sign at the Synod of Bishops in New York; Priest Gregory Joyce of the Diocese of Chicago and Detroit; Priest Paul Ivanov of Holy Trinity Monastery; Protodeacon Eugene Burbelo, the eldest protodeacon of the Russian Church Abroad (ordained by Metropolitan Anastassy of blessed memory in 1955) and Protodeacon Victor Lokhmatov of Holy Trinity Monastery; Sub-deacon Eugene Kallaur, Reader Eugene Grigoriak and Reader Nicholas Olhovsky, the cell-attendant of Vladyka.

Arriving in Moscow separately and joining the delegation on May 14 will be His Eminence Archbishop Mark of Berlin, Germany and Great Britain and other members of the delegation including: Protopriest Nikolai Artemoff, Secretary of the German Diocese; Protopriest Pavel Tsvetkoff, Senior Priest of the Geneva Cathedral of the Elevation of the Cross; Protopriest Vladimir Malchenko, Rector of Holy Trinity Cathedral in Toronto; Protopriest Gabriel Makarov, Rector of St. Nicholas Cathedral in Brisbaine, Australia; and Protopriest Peter Holodny, Treasurer of the Synod of Bishops.

God willing, His Eminence Metropolitan Laurus will arrive in Moscow on May 14 at 1 pm. During the first days of his visit, His Eminence and his delegation will visit the holy sites of the Moscow area, including Holy Trinity-St. Sergius Lavra, and a meeting with His Holiness Patriarch Alexy II of Moscow and the members of the Holy Synod of the Moscow Patriarchate will be held on May 18.

From May 20, the delegation will visit holy sites in St. Petersburg, Ekaterinburg, Nizhny Novgorod oblast' and Kursk.
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist". - Archbishop Hélder Pessoa Câmara

Offline Mattheos

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2004, 07:56:02 PM »
This is great news!

I had a chat with a friend of mine last nigt about this news. I would like to ask the following two questions of the discussion board and hope some discussion will result:

Q1 First and foremost, what does this trip mean for the reunification of MP & ROCOR?

Q2 What is the source of the article in the original post?

Matthew
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Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2004, 09:18:05 PM »
This is great news!

I had a chat with a friend of mine last nigt about this news. I would like to ask the following two questions of the discussion board and hope some discussion will result:

Q1 First and foremost, what does this trip mean for the reunification of MP & ROCOR?

Q2 What is the source of the article in the original post?

Matthew

The article came from the ROCOR webpage. www.rocor.org

"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist". - Archbishop Hélder Pessoa Câmara

Offline JoeZollars

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2004, 11:44:53 PM »
God grant them wisdom!

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Offline Brigid of Kildare

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2004, 04:45:38 AM »

Q1 First and foremost, what does this trip mean for the reunification of MP & ROCOR?

Matthew

Hopefully it will bring it a step closer!
Bríd Naomhtha, Mhuire na nGaeil, Guí Orainn

Offline ania

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2004, 10:08:20 AM »
Don't forget the 3rd part of the delegation... All the ROCOR priests who "just happen" to be in Moscow around the same time.  "Honest to goodness, Vladika, we had no idea this would coincide with you meeting with Alexis, my trip has been planned for AGES!"

(sorry, little dig at the busy-bodies of my church).
Now where were we? Oh yeah - the important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn’t have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...

Offline JoeZollars

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2004, 10:33:13 AM »
lol!  sad thing is, I can think of a few would go.  

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Offline JoeZollars

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2004, 10:51:38 AM »
dear Ania, I have been instructed by the voices in my head to remind you of the fourth part of the delegation--a whole bunch of schismatic lay people who just happen to be on "pilgrimage" at the time of the meeting. ;)

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Offline Jakub

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2004, 12:04:56 PM »
Joe,

Keep a eye on those voices brother, there are spiritual terrorists !

james
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Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.

Offline JoeZollars

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2004, 12:06:22 PM »
lol! yes indeed.  It is very sad to see the wolves prowling amongst the sheep.

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Offline Tikhon29605

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2004, 12:55:25 PM »
I hope communion can be restored between ROCOR and the Moscow Patriarchate.  I also hope this will lead to a restoration of communion between the OCA and ROCOR in the USA.  I highly respect ROCOR, and I think we in the OCA and ROCOR need each other.  I attend an OCA parish right now, but if I ever move, I'd have no problem attending a ROCOR parish if one was nearby, even if the services were in Slavonic.  

Tikhon

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2004, 01:33:43 PM »
Quote
First and foremost, what does this trip mean for the reunification of MP & ROCOR?

Nothing, I hope.
"My doubt in Christ is not like that of a child; it was forged in a furnace of faith." - Dostoevsky

Offline theodore

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2004, 02:35:49 PM »
Quote
First and foremost, what does this trip mean for the reunification of MP & ROCOR?

Nothing, I hope.
That sounds rather dour.  I think that reunification would be a laudable goal, although I don't see reunification happening.  In speaking with a senior ROCOR cleric a few months ago, it sounds like what's happening is a reconcilliation, but NOT a reunion.

Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2004, 02:37:52 PM »


Q1 First and foremost, what does this trip mean for the reunification of MP & ROCOR?

Matthew

I believe it means just what the article says. It's another investigatory step to see just where the Moscow Patriarch "is at".  It's a continuation of the dialogue started last year and a response to the fact that ROCOR has always believed itself to be a temporary body. Hopefully the visit will lead towards a better understanding of the Russian Church(MP) today.
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist". - Archbishop Hélder Pessoa Câmara

Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2004, 05:54:41 PM »
That is not a very good representation of the traditionalist attitude, Justin.  The best hope would be for the MP to disavow ecumenism and other inovations and put pressure on others to do the same.  This would be step in the positive direction and towards communion with the ROCOR, no?

Offline JoeZollars

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2004, 12:24:55 AM »
I agree Nektarios.

This all reminds me of a story I heard.  A group of the schismatics were trying to tell a woman that the reunion would take place by Feast of the Holy Apostles.  Her response was "Please! We'll be lucky if we all get copies of the Paschal Epistle by then."

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Offline ania

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2004, 10:31:13 AM »
LOL... even though I just need to point out that, despite ROCOR's past history of "manana manana" policy, Met. Lavr is a different fish, and he's somehow (despite it looking like he wasn't really doing much) reversed the damage done to MP-ROCOR relations in Met. Vitaly's time (I'm talking since the fall of communism, not before, were there pretty much were no relations).  ROCOR isn't as slow as you may think.
Now where were we? Oh yeah - the important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn’t have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2004, 01:25:48 PM »
The question was a simple one, and I gave a simple answer. Of course I hope that the MP and ROCOR would unite. I hope all Orthodox Christian can unite!! As to what should come of THIS meeting (at this time), I hope nothing comes of it, because if something does, I don't think that that something will be good. In this case, I consider nothing better than something. I seriously don't think that Met. Laurus is going to come back from Russia and say, "You know what, maybe this whole road to communion/union thing shouldn't be pursued at this point". That's why I said nothing. Not because I'm a big bad mean ole traditionalist. :)
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Offline theodore

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2004, 03:10:32 PM »
The question was a simple one, and I gave a simple answer. Of course I hope that the MP and ROCOR would unite. I hope all Orthodox Christian can unite!! As to what should come of THIS meeting (at this time), I hope nothing comes of it, because if something does, I don't think that that something will be good. In this case, I consider nothing better than something. I seriously don't think that Met. Laurus is going to come back from Russia and say, "You know what, maybe this whole road to communion/union thing shouldn't be pursued at this point". That's why I said nothing. Not because I'm a big bad mean ole traditionalist. :)
Then why bother going at all, if the optimum goal is NOTHING.  I believe that reconcilliation and communion at this time would be appropriate and that at least SOME progress should come out of this trip.

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2004, 04:05:47 PM »
I realize this will be somewhat controversial coming from one of the few here under the EP (and being a supporter to boot), but I do hope that The Church of Russia heals all the old wounds and becomes ready to assume the Primacy in Orthodoxy. It is time.

Demetri
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Offline Father Peter

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2004, 04:27:32 PM »
Interesting....but I thought that in the last round we all had discussing primacy it wasn't ever clear what that primacy meant in the EO context.
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Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2004, 05:17:56 PM »
I realize this will be somewhat controversial coming from one of the few here under the EP (and being a supporter to boot), but I do hope that The Church of Russia heals all the old wounds and becomes ready to assume the Primacy in Orthodoxy. It is time.

Demetri

Amin!  :)
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Offline JoeZollars

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2004, 05:37:24 PM »
agreed.  It is time for the Third Rome to return to its rightful place as protector and defender of Orthodox Christians.

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Offline Bogoliubtsy

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2004, 06:15:47 PM »
The Russian prophecy has always been, originally articulated by the  first Russian Metopolitan Ilarion, that once the 3rd Rome falls, there will not be another. Our "Romes" are no more. However, a brief but powerful spiritual flourishing is supposed to take place amidst the new lawlessness before the end. Others, like Bishop Theophan of Poltava have even prophesied that a pious tsar will reclaim the Russian throne during this period...and St. Seraphim himself declared that he would be physically resurrected and preach repentance during this time! We'll just have to wait, pray, and see.  :)
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist". - Archbishop Hélder Pessoa Câmara

Offline JoeZollars

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2004, 06:31:24 PM »
indeed.  I did not mean that the Third Rome would return as a Christian empire, but simply because Moscow is the only major patriarch not under control of a non-orthdox Government that the Russian Church needs to be able to resume a role of leading the evangelization of heterodox nations.  It has not been able to do so previously because of them recovering from the bosheviks (something that is still happening).  It shall indeed be interesting to watch and see what develops in this area.

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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2004, 10:39:12 PM »
Interesting....but I thought that in the last round we all had discussing primacy it wasn't ever clear what that primacy meant in the EO context.

Guess you skipped too many classes, PT  :D

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Offline Father Peter

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Re:ROCOR Delegation Headed For Moscow Again.
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2004, 05:44:18 PM »
I got fed up hearing that the Roman Pope should have primacy but that it was a mystery what that primacy was :)

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