J. Maria
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« on: February 21, 2011, 12:02:19 PM » |
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As I have been delving deeper into the meanings of topics I took for granted before, I started wondering what constitutes idle talk. Is it pleasantries, break room talk, asking lame questions because you are either bored or shy or could it be talking via social networking sites? It is warned against by the Orthodox church so we need to know for sure.
What are your thoughts?
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2011, 06:31:49 PM » |
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As I have been delving deeper into the meanings of topics I took for granted before, I started wondering what constitutes idle talk. Is it pleasantries, break room talk, asking lame questions because you are either bored or shy or could it be talking via social networking sites? It is warned against by the Orthodox church so we need to know for sure.
What are your thoughts?
Excellent question! I'll be interested to see what others think. Personally, I think the Church's warning against idle talk is a reminder of Our Lord's warning that on the Day of Judgement, we will be held accountable for everything we have said, including every "idle word" (Matthew 12:36). An "idle word" (Gk: "ρημα αργον") seems to mean either a "lazy" word (i.e. one which achieves nothing good), or it could mean a word "spoken in idleness"- the image being of reclining in idleness and chatting. Whatever the case, it seems to indicate that we are supposed to be careful that what we say always achieves good and edifies, and that we should speak with the constant thought that we will be held accountable for what we say. So we need to "weigh" and "measure" our words before we speak them. I don't think this necessarily includes things like exchanging pleasantries. Wishing someone a good morning can be a blessing if it comes from the heart and is spoken in love. Nor do I think it includes social networking sites altogether, but it does include what we say on them. It is just as possible to say something edifying on Facebook as it is to spread gossip on it. |
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« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 06:46:12 PM by ozgeorge »
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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
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Melodist
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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2011, 07:30:40 PM » |
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I get the impression that it could refer to anything that does not work toward edification, or even against it.
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Achronos
What's so good about Cincinnati? You like it? You think Cincinnati is cool? I've never heard anyone say, 'I'm going to Cincinnati on vacation.'
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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2011, 07:32:47 PM » |
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We won't be held accountable for things that have been forgiven right?
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“Without music, life would be a mistake.”
“The last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope.”
"Face the facts of being what you are, for that is what changes what you are."
"We see at once that the words absolute, divine, eternal, and so on do not express what is implied in them.
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Ortho_cat
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2011, 10:32:07 PM » |
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What is this prohibition on idle talk we are talking about? I've never heard of it.
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orthonorm
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2011, 10:35:30 PM » |
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I hear about it and realize I either have to remain silent my entire life or probably burn in Hell.
It is a dilemma. Will I get to talk in Hell? If so, I will prove to many Sartre's famous quip: Hell is other people.
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We cannot legislate morality by passing laws controlling firearms. The only evil we can combat lies within our hearts. We need stronger laws to protect the moral foundation of society against the evil of gay marriage. |
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Melodist
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2011, 11:11:56 PM » |
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What is this prohibition on idle talk we are talking about? I've never heard of it.
Matt 12:36-37 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. |
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orthonorm
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« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2011, 11:14:49 PM » |
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What is this prohibition on idle talk we are talking about? I've never heard of it.
Matt 12:36-37 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Easy for an introvert to say . . . So do I get a pass on the BS that I type? |
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We cannot legislate morality by passing laws controlling firearms. The only evil we can combat lies within our hearts. We need stronger laws to protect the moral foundation of society against the evil of gay marriage. |
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Melodist
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« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2011, 11:15:17 PM » |
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I hear about it and realize I either have to remain silent my entire life or probably burn in Hell.
It is a dilemma. Will I get to talk in Hell? If so, I will prove to many Sartre's famous quip: Hell is other people.
It's not a call to silence, only to watch what we say. |
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orthonorm
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« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2011, 11:15:52 PM » |
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What is this prohibition on idle talk we are talking about? I've never heard of it.
Matt 12:36-37 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Seriously, this is one of those many lines of Scripture that scares me. |
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We cannot legislate morality by passing laws controlling firearms. The only evil we can combat lies within our hearts. We need stronger laws to protect the moral foundation of society against the evil of gay marriage. |
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Melodist
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« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2011, 11:16:20 PM » |
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What is this prohibition on idle talk we are talking about? I've never heard of it.
Matt 12:36-37 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Easy for an introvert to say . . . So do I get a pass on the BS that I type? One can be just as responsible for being silent when in a situatino where they should speak. |
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orthonorm
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« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2011, 11:16:29 PM » |
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I hear about it and realize I either have to remain silent my entire life or probably burn in Hell.
It is a dilemma. Will I get to talk in Hell? If so, I will prove to many Sartre's famous quip: Hell is other people.
It's not a call to silence, only to watch what we say. It was an idle attempt at humor. |
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We cannot legislate morality by passing laws controlling firearms. The only evil we can combat lies within our hearts. We need stronger laws to protect the moral foundation of society against the evil of gay marriage. |
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Melodist
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« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2011, 11:23:54 PM » |
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I hear about it and realize I either have to remain silent my entire life or probably burn in Hell.
It is a dilemma. Will I get to talk in Hell? If so, I will prove to many Sartre's famous quip: Hell is other people.
It's not a call to silence, only to watch what we say. It was an idle attempt at humor. Sorry. |
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Ortho_cat
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« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2011, 12:07:38 AM » |
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Can someone give me a reference for this 'prohibition'?
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Schultz
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« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2011, 12:48:50 AM » |
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Can someone give me a reference for this 'prohibition'?
Prayer of St. Ephraim the Syrian, for one, entreats the Lord to save us from such a thing. |
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« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 12:49:14 AM by Schultz »
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"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
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minasoliman
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« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2011, 12:55:13 AM » |
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There's a Coptic priest in Queens who does not allow anyone to speak (within reason) when standing before the altar even if no liturgy is being done. It's extremely strict, but I admire it. There's a holiness to be maintained standing before the altar. We must stand in awe, respecting the presence of God before us. When one can imagine such presence, one then knows the proper professionalism that needs to be maintained.
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« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 12:55:29 AM by minasoliman »
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Vain existence can never exist, for \\\"unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain.\\\" (Psalm 127)
If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
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Salpy
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« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2011, 01:15:37 AM » |
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Can someone give me a reference for this 'prohibition'?
That it's better to be silent is all over the Sayings of the Desert Fathers. Abba Ammoes
It was said of Abba Ammoes that when he went to church, he did not allow his disciple to walk beside him but only at a certain distance; and if the latter came to ask him about his thoughts, he would move away from him as soon as he had replied, saying to him, 'It is for fear that, after edifying words, irrelevant conversation should slip in, that I do not keep you with me.' Abba Isaiah
(Abba Isaiah) also said that when there was an agape and the brethren were eating in the church and talking to one another, the priest of Pelusia reprimanded them in these words, 'Brethren, be quiet. For I have seen a brother eating with you and drinking as many cups as you and his prayer is ascending to the presence of God like fire.' Abba James
He also said, 'We do not need words only, for, at the present time, there are many words among men, but we need works, for this is what is required, not words which do not bear fruit.'
Abba Pambo
The same Abba Theophilus, the archbishop, came to Scetis one day. The brethren who were assembled said to Abba Pambo, 'Say something to the Archbishop, so that he may be edified.' The old man said to them, 'If he is not edified by my silence, he will not be edified by my speech.'
http://en.orthodoxwiki.org/Sayings_of_the_Desert_Fathers#Abba_AmmoesBut then look what Abba Pimen says: Abba Pimen
A man may seem to be silent, but if his heart is condemning others, he is babbling ceaselessly. But there may be another who talks from morning till night and yet he is truly silent, that is, he says nothing that is not profitable. |
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St. Hripsimeh pray for us!
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Ortho_cat
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« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2011, 01:27:27 AM » |
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I agree that there is too much mindless babble all over the world today (how much on twitter and facebook could be classified as this?) We as Christians should learn to measure our speech so that people can respect and appreciate what comes out of our mouths (or fingers), as we are representatives of the Most High. BTW, thanks for the quotes, Salpy!  |
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« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 01:27:56 AM by Ortho_cat »
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orthonorm
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« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2011, 01:28:52 AM » |
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Can someone give me a reference for this 'prohibition'?
That it's better to be silent is all over the Sayings of the Desert Fathers. Abba Ammoes
It was said of Abba Ammoes that when he went to church, he did not allow his disciple to walk beside him but only at a certain distance; and if the latter came to ask him about his thoughts, he would move away from him as soon as he had replied, saying to him, 'It is for fear that, after edifying words, irrelevant conversation should slip in, that I do not keep you with me.' Abba Isaiah
(Abba Isaiah) also said that when there was an agape and the brethren were eating in the church and talking to one another, the priest of Pelusia reprimanded them in these words, 'Brethren, be quiet. For I have seen a brother eating with you and drinking as many cups as you and his prayer is ascending to the presence of God like fire.' Abba James
He also said, 'We do not need words only, for, at the present time, there are many words among men, but we need works, for this is what is required, not words which do not bear fruit.'
Abba Pambo
The same Abba Theophilus, the archbishop, came to Scetis one day. The brethren who were assembled said to Abba Pambo, 'Say something to the Archbishop, so that he may be edified.' The old man said to them, 'If he is not edified by my silence, he will not be edified by my speech.'
http://en.orthodoxwiki.org/Sayings_of_the_Desert_Fathers#Abba_AmmoesBut then look what Abba Pimen says: Abba Pimen
A man may seem to be silent, but if his heart is condemning others, he is babbling ceaselessly. But there may be another who talks from morning till night and yet he is truly silent, that is, he says nothing that is not profitable. Wonderful examples. For example of idle chatter, check out my blather in the chat room or anywhere else I am. |
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We cannot legislate morality by passing laws controlling firearms. The only evil we can combat lies within our hearts. We need stronger laws to protect the moral foundation of society against the evil of gay marriage. |
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Ortho_cat
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« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2011, 10:05:33 AM » |
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^I thought the chat room was for us to get all the idle chatter out of our system...  |
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2011, 10:15:58 PM » |
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"And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell." James 3:6  |
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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
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Phoenix73
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« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2011, 11:52:52 PM » |
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Good topic One I have been struggling with and failing with so much.  St Ephraim's prayer is so humble and calming, and because of this I have been trying to pay attention to what I say before I say it. If only my heart and mind connected before I spoke. |
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Melodist
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« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2011, 04:19:21 PM » |
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"And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell." James 3:6 That is a neat picture. Just wanted to say that. |
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Melodist
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« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2011, 04:23:29 PM » |
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For example of idle chatter, check out my blather in the chat room or anywhere else I am. I just started working third shift. Now that my body's schedule is thrown off, you should hear some of things I say when my body is still physically operating but my mind stops properly functioning after being up past a certain time. |
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Robb
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« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2011, 12:24:12 AM » |
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I tink we should interpret thisas a call against such things as gossip and slander of our fellow man and not necessarily a call to complete silence when not speaking of religious or matters of "absolute necessity".
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Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert
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