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Author Topic: Orthodox Study Bible vs. Bible and Holy Fathers for Orthodox  (Read 3075 times) Average Rating: 0
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Tikhon.of.Colorado
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« on: February 20, 2011, 11:32:49 PM »

there seem to be two major Orthodox versions of the Bible in the US (that I've seen).  could those of you who have or have heard of them, tell us what the difference is between the Orthodox Study Bible  http://orthodoxstudybible.com/  and The Bible and Holy Fathers for Orthodox http://www.archangelsbooks.com/proddetail.asp?prod=SVSMANLEY-01

thanks!
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2011, 11:43:27 PM »

On the Holy Fathers one: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,32113.0.html

I'm not much of a fan of the OSB, because of the NKJV text. But I will wait for ialmisry to refute me. Wink
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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2011, 11:44:42 PM »

On the Holy Fathers one: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,32113.0.html

I'm not much of a fan of the OSB, because of the NKJV text. But I will wait for ialmisry to refute me. Wink
Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy  I need to use the search bar more!!!!!   thanks! Wink Grin
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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2011, 11:53:01 PM »

Yeah people are going to say it has been discussed ad nauseam. My personal Bible of choice, if I was just to have one, is the NOAB RSV expanded Apocrypha. Granted its translation derives from the Masoretic text (which has its problmes) but it is heavily footnoted with Greek translations from the Septuagint or general correction. I don't think the OSB has Maccabees IV, but the NOAB RSV does. I also really like the paper in the hardcover one.

I don't know if we'll see a perfect Orthodox Bible, you may want to keep an eye out for http://www.orthodoxanswers.org/eob/  but when it's all completed. A comparision with the OSB and EOB is here: http://www.orthodoxanswers.org/eob/osb.asp

Now one thing you have to consider about the NOAB is that it uses some very liberal scholarship in terms of the texts, and doesn't base itself off too much on tradition. For example St. Matthew has been deemed anonymous, but you could make a good argument it's not. I can't speak on how Orthodox the notes are, Fr. Thomas Hopko believes 99% of them are so yeah...
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2011, 01:26:40 AM »

I don't think the OSB has Maccabees IV, but the NOAB RSV does.

If there is someone more fixated with (or devoted to) Maccabees IV, I certainly have not encountered them. 
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2011, 01:17:53 PM »

I don't think the OSB has Maccabees IV, but the NOAB RSV does.

If there is someone more fixated with (or devoted to) Maccabees IV, I certainly have not encountered them. 

It's a very good book, nicely segues into the New Testament.
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2011, 01:28:09 PM »

I don't think the OSB has Maccabees IV, but the NOAB RSV does.

If there is someone more fixated with (or devoted to) Maccabees IV, I certainly have not encountered them. 
Count me in: its absence in the OSB is one of my major criticisms of that Bible. Such a valuable and lovely link of the Old to the New Testament.
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« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2011, 01:46:20 PM »

I don't think the OSB has Maccabees IV, but the NOAB RSV does.

If there is someone more fixated with (or devoted to) Maccabees IV, I certainly have not encountered them. 
Count me in: its absence in the OSB is one of my major criticisms of that Bible. Such a valuable and lovely link of the Old to the New Testament.

It also brings the number of books in the Bible to 77, which is a nice number.
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« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2011, 01:48:52 PM »

I don't think the OSB has Maccabees IV, but the NOAB RSV does.

If there is someone more fixated with (or devoted to) Maccabees IV, I certainly have not encountered them. 
Count me in: its absence in the OSB is one of my major criticisms of that Bible. Such a valuable and lovely link of the Old to the New Testament.

It also brings the number of books in the Bible to 77, which is a nice number.

God and His fascination with the number 7  Wink
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« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2011, 01:57:43 PM »

I don't think the OSB has Maccabees IV, but the NOAB RSV does.

If there is someone more fixated with (or devoted to) Maccabees IV, I certainly have not encountered them. 
Count me in: its absence in the OSB is one of my major criticisms of that Bible. Such a valuable and lovely link of the Old to the New Testament.

It also brings the number of books in the Bible to 77, which is a nice number.

God and His fascination with the number 7  Wink
I never thought of it before, but the Protestants have 66 books. Shocked
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« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2011, 02:27:17 PM »

I don't think the OSB has Maccabees IV, but the NOAB RSV does.

If there is someone more fixated with (or devoted to) Maccabees IV, I certainly have not encountered them. 
Count me in: its absence in the OSB is one of my major criticisms of that Bible. Such a valuable and lovely link of the Old to the New Testament.

It also brings the number of books in the Bible to 77, which is a nice number.

God and His fascination with the number 7  Wink
I never thought of it before, but the Protestants have 66 books. Shocked

do we need any clearer sign than that?  Wink
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« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2011, 03:29:09 PM »

ROFL
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« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2011, 11:59:55 PM »

From what I can see, an RSV seems to be the thing to get in English. I still have an old RSV from my undergraduate days. It was the text book in a course I took.

Hopko quotes from the RSV and KJV in his podcasts. I think the lesson there is to look in various places and to never stop searching the scriptures. That realization was a blessing to me.
Hopko rocks. His podcasts are very useful, to me at least. How that guy throws in Greek, Slavonic, etc seems effortless. Very cool.

Right now I like both the NOAB RSV expanded edition and the OSB. For me, both work. For example the OSB gives better LXX references to some texts. Note the difference in these texts shown below. The OSB is not only NKJV. It has a translation of the LXX similar to the one given below, and the RSV does not. It all depends on what you want to see.

There is also an RSV Second Catholic Edition as well that does not seem bad. I have not looked at that one much, yet. Smiley

RSV  Esther 1:1 In the days of Ahasuerus, the Ahasuerus who reigned from India to Ethiopia over one hundred and twenty-seven provinces,

NKJ  Esther 1:1 Now it came to pass in the days of Ahasuerus (this was the Ahasuerus who reigned over one hundred and twenty-seven provinces, from India to Ethiopia),

LXA  Esther 1:1 In the second year of the reign of Artaxerxes the great king, on the first day of Nisan, Mardochaeus the son of Jarius, the son of Semeias, the son of Cisaus, of the tribe of Benjamine, a Jew dwelling in the city Susa, a great man, serving in the king's palace, saw a vision. Now he was of the captivity which Nabuchodonosor king of Babylon had carried captive from Jerusalem, with Jachonias the king of Judea. And this was his dream: Behold, voices and a noise, thunders and earthquake, tumult upon the earth. And, behold, two great serpents came forth, both ready for conflict, and there came from them a great voice, and by their voice every nation was prepared for battle, even to fight against the nation of the just. And, behold, a day of darkness and blackness, tribulation and anguish, affection and tumult upon the earth. And all the righteous nation was troubled, fearing their own afflictions; and they prepared to die, and cried to God: and from their cry there came as it were a great river from a little fountain , even much water. And light and the sun arose, and the lowly were exalted, and devoured the honorable. And Mardochaeus who had seen this vision and what God desired to do, having awoke, kept it in his heart, and desired by all means to interpret it, even till night. And Mardochaeus rested quiet in the palace with Gabatha and Tharrha the king's two chamberlains, eunuchs who guarded the palace. And he heard their reasoning and searched out their plans, and learnt that they were preparing to lay hands on king Artaxerxes: and he informed the king concerning them. And the king examined the two chamberlains, and they confessed, and were executed. And the king wrote these things for a memorial: also Mardochaeus wrote concerning these matters. And the king commanded Mardochaeus to attend in the palace, and gave gifts for this service. And Aman the son of Amadathes the Bugean was honourable in the sight of the king, and he endeavored to hurt Mardochaeus and his people, because of the two chamberlains of the king. And it came to pass after these things in the days of Artaxerxes, --(this Artaxerxes ruled over a hundred and twenty-seven provinces from India)--


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« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2011, 12:08:20 AM »

On point of IV Maccabees, is that book in the cannon so to speak? From what I know its not even though it is used in Eastern Churches. I could be wrong. My RSV annotation mentions this as such, with some other notes as well. LOL. Perhaps this is why the OSB does not have it.

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« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2011, 12:54:29 AM »

I don't think the OSB has Maccabees IV, but the NOAB RSV does.

If there is someone more fixated with (or devoted to) Maccabees IV, I certainly have not encountered them. 

Did someone mention Maccabees IV? I love that book! All Orthodox Bibles should have it. As well as II/IV Esdras.
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« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2011, 02:01:49 AM »

does the 77 books include Esdras II/IV ?
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« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2011, 02:03:50 AM »

The ESV with Apocrypha features a full set of books including Mac. 4:
http://www.amazon.com/English-Standard-Version-Bible-Apocrypha/dp/0195289102

The ESV corrects the RSV in many ways, although in the Old Testament it also meant rolling back many readings from Qumran or the Vulgate or LXX in favour of the Masoretic text. If you can get past that, it's a better RSV. The Ignatius Bible 2nd Catholic Edition (basically the RSV with updated language) is probably the closest parallel to it. Catholics don't share the same distaste for non-Masoretic readings, and unlike the people in charge of the upcoming NAB, Ignatius has also corrected the Isaiah Emmanuel prophecy back to its traditional reading.

The longer Greek version of Tobit can be found in NRSV and the New English Translation of the Septuagint. Trivia note: The Vatican found St. Jerome's paraphrase of Tobit so lacking they chose to update an Old Latin version for its Nova Vulgata. A quick scan of the text indicates the Nova Vulgata (unlike RSV/OSB) has chosen the longer Sinaiticus form of the text.
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« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2011, 02:43:04 AM »

 Woof!

http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=12-02-036-f

Quote
The resemblance of Tobit to the Odyssey in particular was not lost on that great student of literature, Jerome, as is evident in a single detail of his Latin translation of Tobit in the Vulgate. Intrigued by the literary merit of Tobit, but rejecting its canonicity, the jocose and sometimes prankish Jerome felt free to insert into his version an item straight out of the Odyssey—namely, the wagging of the dog’s tail on arriving home with Tobias in 11:9—Tunc praecucurrit canis, qui simul fuerat in via, et quasi nuntius adveniens blandimento suae caudae gaudebat—“Then the dog, which had been with them in the way, ran before, and coming as if it had brought the news, showed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail.”16 No other ancient version of Tobit mentions either the tail or the wagging, but Jerome, ever the classicist, was confident his readers would remember the faithful but feeble old hound Argus, as the final act of his life, greeting the return of Odysseus to the home of his father: “he endeavored to wag his tail” (Odyssey 17.302). And to think that we owe this delightful gem to Jerome’s rejection of Tobit’s canonicity!
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« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2011, 10:06:28 PM »

LXA  Esther 1:1 In the second year of the reign of Artaxerxes the great king, on the first day of Nisan, Mardochaeus the son of Jarius, the son of Semeias, the son of Cisaus, of the tribe of Benjamine, a Jew dwelling in the city Susa, a great man, serving in the king's palace, saw a vision. Now he was of the captivity which Nabuchodonosor king of Babylon had carried captive from Jerusalem, with Jachonias the king of Judea. And this was his dream: Behold, voices and a noise, thunders and earthquake, tumult upon the earth. And, behold, two great serpents came forth, both ready for conflict, and there came from them a great voice, and by their voice every nation was prepared for battle, even to fight against the nation of the just. And, behold, a day of darkness and blackness, tribulation and anguish, affection and tumult upon the earth. And all the righteous nation was troubled, fearing their own afflictions; and they prepared to die, and cried to God: and from their cry there came as it were a great river from a little fountain , even much water. And light and the sun arose, and the lowly were exalted, and devoured the honorable. And Mardochaeus who had seen this vision and what God desired to do, having awoke, kept it in his heart, and desired by all means to interpret it, even till night. And Mardochaeus rested quiet in the palace with Gabatha and Tharrha the king's two chamberlains, eunuchs who guarded the palace. And he heard their reasoning and searched out their plans, and learnt that they were preparing to lay hands on king Artaxerxes: and he informed the king concerning them. And the king examined the two chamberlains, and they confessed, and were executed. And the king wrote these things for a memorial: also Mardochaeus wrote concerning these matters. And the king commanded Mardochaeus to attend in the palace, and gave gifts for this service. And Aman the son of Amadathes the Bugean was honourable in the sight of the king, and he endeavored to hurt Mardochaeus and his people, because of the two chamberlains of the king. And it came to pass after these things in the days of Artaxerxes, --(this Artaxerxes ruled over a hundred and twenty-seven provinces from India)--




Thankfully the NOAB has this along with other additions of the Book of Esther in the Apocrypha
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