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Author Topic: I need advices concerning my current situation  (Read 1790 times) Average Rating: 0
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Arnaud
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Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: None for now.. not yet chrismated and not yet a catechumen in church either.. it's been years I have been catechumenizing myself so to speak.. in doing research again and again.. hopefully one day I will be chrismated in one of the Oriental Orthodox Churches.. or who knows maybe in one of the Eastern Orthodox Churches.. but right now miaphysite christology seems right to me..
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God is VERY GREAT and I am very small


« on: February 17, 2011, 10:55:35 PM »

Greetings to one and all, in the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, one God, amen.

I grew up in a basic Roman Catholic education, and as a baby, I was baptized in the Roman Catholic Church. Later, in my adolescence, I completely rejected this Church and I began to frequent the Protestant circle ( Evangelic Pentecostal ) during about two years. I finally also rejected that and since some years already, I seriously interested myself to the Oriental Orthodoxy, especially to the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church. I learnt real and rich teachings through the Orthodoxy in general ( OO and EO ), and I continue to learn. The feeling that I have for the Oriental Orthodox Church is real and is not superficial. I have this conviction that the Oriental Orthodox Church is this House which I was looking for. In spite of I'm not still a member, I consider myself as being " affiliated " with Her. I want to become a member of the Oriental Orthodox Churches.

Here are my questions :

- Do I have to be baptized ? Or my baptism in the Roman Catholic Church is considered as being valid ? If yes, what else I have to do in order to become a member ?  
- There are no Oriental Orthodox churches on my island ( http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ueFO31PiN2U/TJ_5agmgS0I/AAAAAAAAA2s/HyogSLqw3Io/s1600/Map_Reunion.gif ) where I live, there are only Roman Catholic churches and one Greek Orthodox church. Can I attend to their masses and receive the sacraments in their church ? On this point, I learnt that in certain circumstances (?), it is possibly allowed, because of their apostolic succession.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 10:56:29 PM by Arnaud » Logged

Mo'a Ambessa ze imnegede Yehuda !
The Lion of the tribe of Judah has conquered !
Orthodox11
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« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2011, 02:42:48 PM »


- Do I have to be baptized ? Or my baptism in the Roman Catholic Church is considered as being valid ? If yes, what else I have to do in order to become a member ?  
- There are no Oriental Orthodox churches on my island ( http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ueFO31PiN2U/TJ_5agmgS0I/AAAAAAAAA2s/HyogSLqw3Io/s1600/Map_Reunion.gif ) where I live, there are only Roman Catholic churches and one Greek Orthodox church. Can I attend to their masses and receive the sacraments in their church ? On this point, I learnt that in certain circumstances (?), it is possibly allowed, because of their apostolic succession.

Thanks.[/i]

1. The Copts and Ethiopians would probably insist on baptism (although I know of Catholics who have been received into the Coptic Church by chrismation), the Armenians and Syrians would probably receive you by chrismation.

2. Of the two, the Greek Orthodox Church would be much closer to any OO church in terms of faith and liturgical practice. It is quite common in many areas for church-less OOs to receive the sacraments in EO churches, but this is a practice many on both sides would consider very unfortunate. The best thing would probably be to attend the Greek church without partaking in the Mysteries. I would have thought the Roman church is out of the question altogether.
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2011, 03:11:09 PM »

Since it is the Ethiopian Church that you wish to join, I would think that they would baptise you.  There are, as stated above, exceptions.  From my experience with the Copts (Egyptian) and the SCOBA Churches here in the US, I have seen plenty of intercommunion, particularly when there is no Coptic Church.  I have found the Copts somewhat more hesitant to commune EOs, but I have personally seen it done, and have done so myself.  I have found the issue of communion between the EO and OO to be somewhat of a "don't ask, don't tell" affair since officially we are not in communion.  But I can tell you that in the Serbian Church that I attend, Copts and Ethiopian Tewahedo members are very highly regarded and loved by the Priest and many members.  I don't know if this extends to communion since I have not seen this myself.  However, the local Antiochian Church did commune Copts quite regularly before they built their own temple.

To directly answer your question, I would attend the Greek Church if at all possible.  The RC would probably commune you, but I would not suggest you go that route.  I will not go into my reasoning any more than to say that this is an ORTHODOX forum, and if I thought that communing with the RC was OK, I would be Roman Catholic myself.
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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2011, 04:51:54 PM »

If there are no Oriental Orthodox churches where you are, then definitely attend the Eastern Orthodox church.  You need to discuss with the parish priest whether you can commune or not.  Regardless of whether you can commune, though, I would still go to the liturgy to pray and worship.
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Arnaud
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Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: None for now.. not yet chrismated and not yet a catechumen in church either.. it's been years I have been catechumenizing myself so to speak.. in doing research again and again.. hopefully one day I will be chrismated in one of the Oriental Orthodox Churches.. or who knows maybe in one of the Eastern Orthodox Churches.. but right now miaphysite christology seems right to me..
Posts: 104


God is VERY GREAT and I am very small


« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2011, 01:45:57 PM »

Greetings ...

Orthodox11 said :
Quote
1. The Copts and Ethiopians would probably insist on baptism (although I know of Catholics who have been received into the Coptic Church by chrismation), the Armenians and Syrians would probably receive you by chrismation.

2. Of the two, the Greek Orthodox Church would be much closer to any OO church in terms of faith and liturgical practice. It is quite common in many areas for church-less OOs to receive the sacraments in EO churches, but this is a practice many on both sides would consider very unfortunate. The best thing would probably be to attend the Greek church without partaking in the Mysteries. I would have thought the Roman church is out of the question altogether.

Punch said :
Quote
Since it is the Ethiopian Church that you wish to join, I would think that they would baptise you.  There are, as stated above, exceptions.  From my experience with the Copts (Egyptian) and the SCOBA Churches here in the US, I have seen plenty of intercommunion, particularly when there is no Coptic Church.  I have found the Copts somewhat more hesitant to commune EOs, but I have personally seen it done, and have done so myself.  I have found the issue of communion between the EO and OO to be somewhat of a "don't ask, don't tell" affair since officially we are not in communion.  But I can tell you that in the Serbian Church that I attend, Copts and Ethiopian Tewahedo members are very highly regarded and loved by the Priest and many members.  I don't know if this extends to communion since I have not seen this myself.  However, the local Antiochian Church did commune Copts quite regularly before they built their own temple.

To directly answer your question, I would attend the Greek Church if at all possible.  The RC would probably commune you, but I would not suggest you go that route.  I will not go into my reasoning any more than to say that this is an ORTHODOX forum, and if I thought that communing with the RC was OK, I would be Roman Catholic myself.


Salpy said :
Quote
If there are no Oriental Orthodox churches where you are, then definitely attend the Eastern Orthodox church.  You need to discuss with the parish priest whether you can commune or not.  Regardless of whether you can commune, though, I would still go to the liturgy to pray and worship.

Thanks for your answers.

The solution is for me to leave my country to get baptized, then come back and attend the Greek Orthodox Church.

Questions come on my mind : What happens to poor people who have no money to travel ? Or what happens to those who are trapped in a situation that prevents them from leaving ? Will they be deprived of the life of the first resurrection ? Are they destined to perish ?

Be blessed.


« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 01:47:49 PM by Arnaud » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2011, 02:00:02 PM »


Questions come on my mind : What happens to poor people who have no money to travel ? Or what happens to those who are trapped in a situation that prevents them from leaving ? Will they be deprived of the life of the first resurrection ? Are they destined to perish ?

Be blessed.[/i]



My dear Arnaud,

Your question brings tears to my eyes.  In the liturgy, the Priest says “for Thou art a good God that lovest mankind”.  God did not give us these sacraments to put stumbling blocks before you, but to help you.  Even a layman can baptize in an emergency.  God wants your Salvation, and if you want to be saved, there will come a way.  Jesus says “Ask and it shall be given you, seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened for you”.  What greater gift to ask for than the gift of Salvation?  What better treasure to seek than Jesus Christ?  What better door to knock on that the gates of heaven?  God is not a liar.  He will do these for you if you are searching for Him in your heart.  Have Faith in Him, and He will see to it that you have all that you need to be saved.
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« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2011, 02:40:18 PM »

I wonder if it would be possible to organise a mission to your island?
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« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2011, 03:17:30 PM »

Greetings ...

Orthodox11 said :
Quote
1. The Copts and Ethiopians would probably insist on baptism (although I know of Catholics who have been received into the Coptic Church by chrismation), the Armenians and Syrians would probably receive you by chrismation.

2. Of the two, the Greek Orthodox Church would be much closer to any OO church in terms of faith and liturgical practice. It is quite common in many areas for church-less OOs to receive the sacraments in EO churches, but this is a practice many on both sides would consider very unfortunate. The best thing would probably be to attend the Greek church without partaking in the Mysteries. I would have thought the Roman church is out of the question altogether.

Punch said :
Quote
Since it is the Ethiopian Church that you wish to join, I would think that they would baptise you.  There are, as stated above, exceptions.  From my experience with the Copts (Egyptian) and the SCOBA Churches here in the US, I have seen plenty of intercommunion, particularly when there is no Coptic Church.  I have found the Copts somewhat more hesitant to commune EOs, but I have personally seen it done, and have done so myself.  I have found the issue of communion between the EO and OO to be somewhat of a "don't ask, don't tell" affair since officially we are not in communion.  But I can tell you that in the Serbian Church that I attend, Copts and Ethiopian Tewahedo members are very highly regarded and loved by the Priest and many members.  I don't know if this extends to communion since I have not seen this myself.  However, the local Antiochian Church did commune Copts quite regularly before they built their own temple.

To directly answer your question, I would attend the Greek Church if at all possible.  The RC would probably commune you, but I would not suggest you go that route.  I will not go into my reasoning any more than to say that this is an ORTHODOX forum, and if I thought that communing with the RC was OK, I would be Roman Catholic myself.


Salpy said :
Quote
If there are no Oriental Orthodox churches where you are, then definitely attend the Eastern Orthodox church.  You need to discuss with the parish priest whether you can commune or not.  Regardless of whether you can commune, though, I would still go to the liturgy to pray and worship.

Thanks for your answers.

The solution is for me to leave my country to get baptized, then come back and attend the Greek Orthodox Church.

Questions come on my mind : What happens to poor people who have no money to travel ? Or what happens to those who are trapped in a situation that prevents them from leaving ? Will they be deprived of the life of the first resurrection ? Are they destined to perish ?

Be blessed.
On your last question, they will not be judged, but we Orthodox will be: how will we explain how we missed a nation when He said "baptize all nations."  However, the Lord's hand is not shortened that He cannot save.



I thought about this when I was on Bermuda. All these Churches, and not one is Orthodox.  What if someone wanted to embrace the Church?

At least now there's the internet.

You are also lucky that a Greek Orthodox Church is present, and that it is under HAH Pope Theodore, who has agreements with HH Pope Shenoudah to recognize each others Holy Mysteries, usually in the context of a "mixed" marriage.  Not exactly your case, but you are luckier than someone in the same perdicament would be on Bermuda.  If you cannot leave, see about baptism and/or chrismation through the Greek Orthodox priest.
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Arnaud
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Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: None for now.. not yet chrismated and not yet a catechumen in church either.. it's been years I have been catechumenizing myself so to speak.. in doing research again and again.. hopefully one day I will be chrismated in one of the Oriental Orthodox Churches.. or who knows maybe in one of the Eastern Orthodox Churches.. but right now miaphysite christology seems right to me..
Posts: 104


God is VERY GREAT and I am very small


« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2011, 07:49:37 PM »

Thanks. I have to explain a little more in detail about what has guided me to the Oriental Orthodox Faith and Order.

The answer is the late Emperor of Ethiopia, H.I.M Emperor Haile Selassie the 1st. I learned about him from my adolescence and I developed a certain reverence to his person, a very deep respect. I got over time, a number of his speeches, and books about him. The Rasta tries to learn from each of his speeches, even those that may appear unimportant in the context of the spiritual life. To the Rasta, everything he says is important and should be considered. Some say he is Christ, the same Jesus, in His kingly character. Others say he is a living & blessed tool of God, and he appears to them as a holy man, a mystical king. My view is the second, and of course you all here know that the first view is heterodox and incompatible with Orthodoxy.

What brought me to the knowledge of H.I.M Haile Selassie I is the history and culture of the Rastafari movement. The music, Reggae of course, was the triggering factor. People of all color are in the Rastafari movement, and the empire on which H.I.M Haile Selassie the 1st has reigned, Ethiopia, appears to them as a land of mysteries where the real legacy of the Christian faith is preserved in its fullness. Rastas will not want to embrace any Church ( Oriental or not ) outside the context of the ethiopianism. The black Rastas will be also disturbed by the traditional Coptic images depicting Jesus Christ like a European, and although these images are also present in the EOTC, only the EOTC seems able to bring traditional Ethiopian icons depicting Christ like a black semitic, solving this identity problem.

Father Peter Farrington, I like the idea expressed, it's really nice and fraternal, but for all the reasons written above, I think it is preferable that the Tewahedo Church comes, rather than the Egyptian Coptic Church.

My people do not speak English, but French, and we are not economically poor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9union

 
Be blessed.
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Mo'a Ambessa ze imnegede Yehuda !
The Lion of the tribe of Judah has conquered !
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