Author Topic: Recommended Traditional Latin Benedictine Breviary for WR use  (Read 618 times)

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Offline Svirsky

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Recommended Traditional Latin Benedictine Breviary for WR use
« on: August 26, 2016, 08:10:40 PM »
So, I'm looking for a traditional (c. 1962 or before) Benedictine breviary in Latin or Latin-English that, with a few obvious changes, would be suitable enough for occasional Orthodox use. I was thinking maybe of St. Michael's Abbey Press's Diurnal, but I'm curious as to what suggestions you all might have.

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Re: Recommended Traditional Latin Benedictine Breviary for WR use
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2016, 08:27:55 PM »
I don't have an alternative, but I looked up the Diurnal and yikes at the price! :o
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Offline Svirsky

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Re: Recommended Traditional Latin Benedictine Breviary for WR use
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2016, 08:33:12 PM »
I don't have an alternative, but I looked up the Diurnal and yikes at the price! :o

A good Horologion is even more expensive, and I'm not even going to mention the cost of the Octoechos or the Menaion.

Offline biro

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Re: Recommended Traditional Latin Benedictine Breviary for WR use
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2016, 08:35:38 PM »
If what I saw was the same, the Diurnal is on Amazon for $76.  :o

When I was in the RCC, we had these four-volume thingies that cost $35-60 each, so depending on whether you wanted fancy leather covers or regular paper ones, the set could cost a bit. I was proud of myself when I'd get the coupon for a bit off.

Now I'm Orthodox, I just have the Psalter and a couple little paperback prayerbooks. I do love prayer books, though. :)
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 08:36:52 PM by biro »
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Re: Recommended Traditional Latin Benedictine Breviary for WR use
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2016, 08:42:12 PM »
I don't have an alternative, but I looked up the Diurnal and yikes at the price! :o

A good Horologion is even more expensive, and I'm not even going to mention the cost of the Octoechos or the Menaion.

Not necessarily. :)

https://holycrossbookstore.com/products/great-horologion-english
https://www.amazon.com/Octoechos-Primer-Containing-Sunday-Service/dp/054377032X
http://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/cPath/75_105/products_id/573 (comes to $100/volume)

But then I'm spoilt. ;)
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Offline Svirsky

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Re: Recommended Traditional Latin Benedictine Breviary for WR use
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2016, 08:44:53 PM »
I don't have an alternative, but I looked up the Diurnal and yikes at the price! :o

A good Horologion is even more expensive, and I'm not even going to mention the cost of the Octoechos or the Menaion.

Not necessarily. :)

https://holycrossbookstore.com/products/great-horologion-english
https://www.amazon.com/Octoechos-Primer-Containing-Sunday-Service/dp/054377032X
http://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/cPath/75_105/products_id/573 (comes to $100/volume)

But then I'm spoilt. ;)

You do realize that, when you do the math, it costs about $1,500 to properly read the Orthodox Divine Office in English, right?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 08:47:39 PM by Svirsky »

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Re: Recommended Traditional Latin Benedictine Breviary for WR use
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2016, 08:49:04 PM »
I don't have an alternative, but I looked up the Diurnal and yikes at the price! :o

A good Horologion is even more expensive, and I'm not even going to mention the cost of the Octoechos or the Menaion.

Not necessarily. :)

https://holycrossbookstore.com/products/great-horologion-english
https://www.amazon.com/Octoechos-Primer-Containing-Sunday-Service/dp/054377032X
http://www.bostonmonks.com/product_info.php/cPath/75_105/products_id/573 (comes to $100/volume)

But then I'm spoilt. ;)

You do realize that, when you do the math, it costs about $1,500 to properly read the Orthodox Divine Office in English, right?

Yes. It's a considerable investment.
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Recommended Traditional Latin Benedictine Breviary for WR use
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2016, 09:34:38 PM »
Maybe you should ask in a RC forum.
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Offline MalpanaGiwargis

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Re: Recommended Traditional Latin Benedictine Breviary for WR use
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2016, 03:06:28 PM »
If you require the Latin, the St. Michael's Abbey is probably the way to go, although the "1962" books have truncated a lot of content compared to the historic Breviary. I have the Lancelot Andrewes Press Monastic Diurnal; it's entirely in Book of Common Prayer-style English, but it is very nice. A bit pricy at $65 if it's not exactly what you want, but I like it a lot, and I have owned several Roman breviaries and diurnals. In terms of quality, it compares very favorably to my old breviaries from the mid-1940s. Lancelot Andrewes Press also has a monastic Matins book for $45, so you could have the complete monastic office in English for $110. The one downside to the Matins book is that it is completely monochrome; the diurnal has red rubrications, which looks nice.
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Offline rft183

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Re: Recommended Traditional Latin Benedictine Breviary for WR use
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2016, 11:42:15 PM »
My priest gave me a copy of the Lancelot Andrewes Monastic Diurnal. I love it! It is only in English, so it is probably not what you are looking for, but I did want to second the previous recommendation. ;)

Offline wgw

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Re: Recommended Traditional Latin Benedictine Breviary for WR use
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2016, 08:24:46 PM »
http://divinumofficium.com/cgi-bin/horas/officium.pl

Divinum Officium has a "Pre Tridentine Monastic" breviary with propers, but I have no idea if that is the Benedictine breviary or not.

By the way, I have a two volume Latin and English set of ebooks of the 1950s Dominican Rite breviary, if that would be of interest.

I know very little about the Benedictine breviary, only that it is quite different from the breviary of the Gallico-Roman Rite and related rites and apparently never suffered from some of the same perceived problems (which were apparently finally solved with some satisfaction under Pius X). 
Axios and many years to you, Fr. Trenham!

Offline Diego

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Re: Recommended Traditional Latin Benedictine Breviary for WR use
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2016, 11:38:10 PM »
You of course want the Latin. I, though a Lutheran, was raised quasi-Roman and quasi-Anglican. I spent time in a monastery, and never quite left, even though I am married, now. I still pray the Office five times a day. I use the Book of Common Prayer 1979 Rite I. First upon rising I use a form of Prime that I found in a Lutheran text, the Evangelical Lutheran Hymnary, published by the Evangelical Lutheran Synod, a small group of Lutherans of Norwegian heritage up in Maketo, Minn. Morning Prayer Rite I, then Noonday Prayer, then Evening Prayer Rite I, and then Compline. I have the Book of Common Prayer 1979 in 3 different languages, English, Spanish, and Latin. So, in theory, and can do it in any of the three. Usually I choose English, but rarely I will choose one of the other two. The Liber Precum Publicarum 1979 is not published in print. It is, however, available as a collection of downloadable computer files at http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/Latin1979/Latin_1979.htm

As far as a Lectionary, my Prayer Book is old enough to not have that disgusting excuse for a Revised Common Lectionary in it. You can still find the old Episcopal Lectionary that I am talking about if you look for it on the 'Net. Don't look for it in modern-day Prayer Books. They have the RCL. Disgusting, I know.

As far as GETTING a Prayer Book, you can either pay for one (they run anywhere between $15.00 for a new Pew edition to $80.00 for the high quality expensive leather bound ones), to buying a used one off Amazon (a Pew edition) for $5.00, or, you could just walk into any Episcopal Church and ask for one. Its very likely they would just give you one in decent condition. It would be in English, presumably. Unless you are fairly close to the border, or have a large Hispanic community near you that the Church might serve. I had to buy my Spanish edition, I think when I lived down South. I was given my current English version from a Church.

Again, I realise that you want the Latin Rite, and even the Liber Precum Publicarum is still the Anglican Rite simply translated into Latin (nearly all the Books of Common Prayer have been at one time or other; the web site I gave you earlier is a treasure trove of Books of Common Prayer that includes many different versions in both English and several other languages, including Latin and others; you are bound to find a few you like).

Nevertheless, I thought this little write-up might help you if you DID decide to want to use Anglican resources. If I can be of any further benefit, just let me know. There are people who DO publish Anglican Breviaries that are ALSO very nice,that you may find suit your needs very well also. Some are exactly what the Prayer Book text is, and some are otherwise, but many are very nice. They are NOT generally produced by the Church, although I do believe that one was. I recall it had green covers, and was the text of the BCP 1979 in English, with the old Episcopal Lectionary in it. I don't know if its still being made, and I am sure if it is, they have switched to the RCL. Anyway, I hope I was of some help, if not to you, then somebody.








Offline Diego

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Re: Recommended Traditional Latin Benedictine Breviary for WR use
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2016, 06:30:02 AM »
And "Maketo" should read Mankato". Please pardon the atrocious spelling. I would have gone back to edit the other post, but I can't after five minutes, and it has been several hours, so, here you are.

Offline wgw

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Re: Recommended Traditional Latin Benedictine Breviary for WR use
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2016, 09:34:18 AM »
Diego, you might be pleased to note that in the Orthodox Church, including the Western Rite communities, the Revised Common Lectionary is rejected.   We don't touch it with a ten foot pole, and I agree with you, it is disgusting.  Actually the old lectionaries are easy to find.  Checkout bombaxo.org, which has the old Tridentine lectionary, and this site: http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/england.htm

Which has virtually every extant version of the Book of Common Prayer, and the associated lectionaries (which were all a modification of the old Roman Rite lectionary, which in turn until Pius XII decided to mess with the Easter Triduum, had a Paschal Vigil service and on Good Friday, a Presanctified Mass which closely resembled the Byzantine Rite Vesperal Divine Liturgy for Holy Saturday and the Liturgy of the Presanctified, although this liturgy was never used on Good Friday).
Axios and many years to you, Fr. Trenham!

Offline Diego

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Re: Recommended Traditional Latin Benedictine Breviary for WR use
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2016, 09:46:17 AM »
VERY cool, WGW! I LIKE this board! I think you Orthodox and I can really talk to each other. I despise the liberals of the West who like to dress up and play church. You Easterners seem to have it where its at. I may not always agree with you on points of theology, but at least you take yourselves seriously, and are genuine enough to stand for something.

The RCL is a disgrace. It takes everything of meat right out of Scripture, and turns it into a feel-good, sit round the campfire and sing Kum-bay-Ya meeting. It makes me ill.

Offline WPM

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Re: Recommended Traditional Latin Benedictine Breviary for WR use
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2016, 11:33:40 AM »
Isn't that almost Catholic? ...

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Recommended Traditional Latin Benedictine Breviary for WR use
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2016, 12:20:24 PM »
Diego, you might be pleased to note that in the Orthodox Church, including the Western Rite communities, the Revised Common Lectionary is rejected.   We don't touch it with a ten foot pole, and I agree with you, it is disgusting.  Actually the old lectionaries are easy to find.  Checkout bombaxo.org, which has the old Tridentine lectionary, and this site: http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/england.htm

Which has virtually every extant version of the Book of Common Prayer, and the associated lectionaries (which were all a modification of the old Roman Rite lectionary, which in turn until Pius XII decided to mess with the Easter Triduum, had a Paschal Vigil service and on Good Friday, a Presanctified Mass which closely resembled the Byzantine Rite Vesperal Divine Liturgy for Holy Saturday and the Liturgy of the Presanctified, although this liturgy was never used on Good Friday).
Presanctified was indeed served on Good Friday for a time.
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Offline jwinch2

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Re: Recommended Traditional Latin Benedictine Breviary for WR use
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2016, 06:50:03 PM »
I have the St. Michael's Abbey Diurnal, and it is a wonderful work.  If your priest is OK with your using it, I would highly recommend it.