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Author Topic: "Now Open: B16's Great Gate of Kiev" Card. Husar resigns  (Read 1278 times) Average Rating: 0
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ialmisry
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« on: February 11, 2011, 09:57:53 PM »

Quote
...Most recently, in one of his last major statements in office, the cardinal -- invariably a fierce advocate of his church's fullest standing in society -- blasted an enhanced state recognition for the UOC (one of three Orthodox branches in Ukraine)...

...To the degree that the Russian Synod was looking outside, its choice of the moderate, media-savvy dialogue chief was likely aided by the Vatican's 2007 appointment of a more collaborative cleric -- the Italian priest of Communion and Liberation Paolo Pezzi -- as the capital's Catholic archbishop, replacing a prelate whose departure the Orthodox had ardently sought.

Though Kirill and Benedict have built a history of warm relations from the former's prior assignment, to date, no meeting between a Roman pontiff and incumbent Russian patriarch has ever taken place… and to say that the historic encounter is high on B16's "bucket list" reaches the realm of understatement.

While the Moscow chief is thought to be just as personally disposed for the moment to happen, as patriarch, Kirill first has to assuage his hard-liners. And it's likewise on Benedict's radar that his hierarchs refrain from presenting any obstacles that would galvanize the significant resistance in both churches to better relations, largely thanks to the concessions each would have to make along the way.

To be sure, in a December address, Husar lamented the "stereotype" that "Greek Catholics are the problem for reaching agreements between the Moscow Patriarchate and Roman Pope."

"The pope and the Patriarch of Moscow cannot reach an agreement on many other things,” the cardinal said.

"You see, we are the unfortunate Greek Catholics on the border between the two great cultures – the Byzantine and Latin ones, between Roman Catholicism and confessional Orthodoxy – as we consider ourselves the Orthodox in unity with the Apostolic See."

Still, the truth remains the Vatican's prized path to Moscow could well be affected by what happens in Kiev. So on multiple points of the map, get ready for an interesting month.
http://whispersintheloggia.blogspot.com/2011/02/now-open-b16s-great-gate-of-kiev.html

Is this what the "Gate of Kiev" refers to?

Quote
Boleslaw Chrobry and Sviatopolk the Accursed at Kiev, in a legendary moment of hitting the Golden Gate with the Szczerbiec sword. Painting by Jan Matejko.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Gate,_Kiev
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szczerbiec#The_Szczerbiec_of_Boleslaus_the_Brave
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Gate,_Kiev
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« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2011, 10:23:44 AM »

Thanks for posting, the whole article is most interesting. Cardinal Husar has been a fierce advocate of the UGCC, as one would rightly expect, but to some degree, he has been somewhat enigmatic regarding the Vatican and its intrigue.

Those of us whose Orthodox ancestral roots have ties to Greek Catholicism, or for that matter, those who remain part of the Greek Catholic communities can understand that part of his statement that refers to 'unfortunate' Greek Catholics caught on the (ever shifting through the 20th century) border between East and West. We both have been, and remain, a thorn in side of those factions, East and West alike, who would seek to assimilate us and impose their own cultural norms upon us. (I am not speaking about the part about being Orthodox in communion with Rome..don't worry!)

The weeks ahead will be of interest indeed.
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« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2011, 01:02:15 PM »

Thanks for posting, the whole article is most interesting. Cardinal Husar has been a fierce advocate of the UGCC, as one would rightly expect, but to some degree, he has been somewhat enigmatic regarding the Vatican and its intrigue.

Those of us whose Orthodox ancestral roots have ties to Greek Catholicism, or for that matter, those who remain part of the Greek Catholic communities can understand that part of his statement that refers to 'unfortunate' Greek Catholics caught on the (ever shifting through the 20th century) border between East and West. We both have been, and remain, a thorn in side of those factions, East and West alike, who would seek to assimilate us and impose their own cultural norms upon us. (I am not speaking about the part about being Orthodox in communion with Rome..don't worry!)

The weeks ahead will be of interest indeed.
On Byzcath (and elsewhere) there have been rumors floated that the "Ukrainian Church" was fit to be the first Church "reunited" (I would think the Church of Antioch would present a more compelling argument), and in that senario, the Cardinal would be the "Ukrainian Patriarch," a title that so far exists only among Ukrainian Protestants of the Byzantine rite-may the canonical Orthodox office soon be erected!

The non-exsitence of that title under the Vatican might come to a head.

Interesting, in these "unity" scenarios, no mention is made of the Vatican's Ruthenians, Moscow's Rusyn, and the Orthodox Church of the Czech Lands and Slovakia. I'm not sure what those Ukrainians who claim autocephaly on the basis of the Phanar's Tomos to Poland, do with Poland (which has a large Ukrainian population).

In veiw of all that, the move of UGCC headquarters to Kiev is indeed provocative.
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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2011, 09:34:18 AM »

Nice picture, Isa.

The Ukrainian minority is practically nonexistent in Poland except for the cigarette smugglers. To tell you the truth, I think that today there are more Romanians and Moldavians here than Ukrainians. Although the majority of Ukrainians and Romanians are not in official statistics, so we cannot be sure of their numbers.
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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2011, 11:12:58 AM »

Nice picture, Isa.

The Ukrainian minority is practically nonexistent in Poland except for the cigarette smugglers. To tell you the truth, I think that today there are more Romanians and Moldavians here than Ukrainians. Although the majority of Ukrainians and Romanians are not in official statistics, so we cannot be sure of their numbers.

I am curious as to how the Greek Catholic population, reduced as it is, in southern Poland along the Tatras describe themselves these days. I can't find a website for them but I think there are two bishops or dioceses with about 100,000 faithful .
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« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2011, 02:03:17 PM »

Nice picture, Isa.

The Ukrainian minority is practically nonexistent in Poland except for the cigarette smugglers. To tell you the truth, I think that today there are more Romanians and Moldavians here than Ukrainians. Although the majority of Ukrainians and Romanians are not in official statistics, so we cannot be sure of their numbers.

It is true that some significant numbers of ethnic Ukrainians have emigrated from Poland to Canada starting in the late 1980's into the 1990's, but there is still a vibrant orgainzed Ukrainnian comunity left.
We have over 11 Ukrainian Orthodox priests who came to our UOCC in Canada in the late 1980's.  Most of them were sent to rural parishes on the prairies, except for Fr. Bohdan Sencio who is in Toronto.  I only know about Ukrainian Orthodox immigrants to Canada not Ukrainian Catholics.  Except for the priests who went to the prairies almost all of the Ukrainian orthodox from Poland settled in Toronto or Southern Ontario and all are active in our community.
Perhaps people on the forum do not know that after WW2 Ukrainians living in Polish part of the Carpathians were moved to western Poland where the Germans community left their homes and lands.
Many of the old Orthodox and Greek Catholic churches in the Carpathians were then turned over to the Roman Catholic Church and more ethnic Poles were moved into the area.
As for the Ukrainian Catholics from Poland in Canada, the first group to come over were two busloads of young people all in their 20's who officially were on a religious pilgrimage to Rome but on the return trip back to Poland got off the bus and applied to come to Canada in Vienna.  The Ukrainian Immigrant Aid Sopciety in Toronto helped them financially once they all go to to Toronto.  Then later they sponsored various members of their families to come over. 
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« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2011, 05:02:18 PM »

Nice picture, Isa.

The Ukrainian minority is practically nonexistent in Poland except for the cigarette smugglers. To tell you the truth, I think that today there are more Romanians and Moldavians here than Ukrainians. Although the majority of Ukrainians and Romanians are not in official statistics, so we cannot be sure of their numbers.
Sort of like the Poles in America.

As for the Ukrainians in Poland:

27,000+
http://www2.mswia.gov.pl/portal.php?serwis=pl&dzial=61&id=37#ukraincy

« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 05:02:48 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2011, 05:17:35 PM »

According to this link, the number of Greek Catholics is between 80.000 and 100.000. Greek Catholic is Ukrainian in this country.

This interview from 2005 with bp.Włodzimierz Juszczak claims that there are about 100.000 Greek Catholics.

I do not think that there are many Orthodox Ukrainians in Poland. The centre of the Orthodox church is in Podlasie and the historical parts of Wileńszczyzna which became part of the current Polish State.
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2011, 08:02:43 AM »

According to this link, the number of Greek Catholics is between 80.000 and 100.000. Greek Catholic is Ukrainian in this country.

This interview from 2005 with bp.Włodzimierz Juszczak claims that there are about 100.000 Greek Catholics.

I do not think that there are many Orthodox Ukrainians in Poland. The centre of the Orthodox church is in Podlasie and the historical parts of Wileńszczyzna which became part of the current Polish State.
The centre of the Orthodox Church for Ukrainians in what is now Poland since WW2 is the Carpathians, but they were moved out the area after the war.  The head quarters of the church is of course in the capital, Warsaw.
We have to make a distinction to Ukrainians who were born in Poland and are Polish citizens.  That is ethnic Ukrainians who were forced out of their lands and moved.
And a group of Ukrainians who are Ukrainian citizens and born in Ukraine and come across the border into Poland just to work.  The second group is not significant.
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2011, 12:33:05 PM »

[
The centre of the Orthodox Church for Ukrainians in what is now Poland since WW2 is the Carpathians, but they were moved out the area after the war.  The head quarters of the church is of course in the capital, Warsaw.
We have to make a distinction to Ukrainians who were born in Poland and are Polish citizens.  That is ethnic Ukrainians who were forced out of their lands and moved.
And a group of Ukrainians who are Ukrainian citizens and born in Ukraine and come across the border into Poland just to work.  The second group is not significant.
here is the info about the removal of the Ukrainians and their re-settlement:
Operation Wisła (Polish: Akcja ‘Wisła’ or Akcja ‘W’). The code name of the military operation, by Polish military and security units (28 April to 31 July 1947), that resulted in the deportation of 150,000 Ukrainians from their autochthonous territories (the Lemko region, Sian region, and Kholm region) in southeastern Poland to Poland's ‘regained territories’ (Ziemie Odzyskane), newly acquired from Germany, in the north and northwest.

Officially the purpose of Operation Wisła was to destroy Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) units active in the Lemko region as well as to deprive them of a base of support among the local population. On 17 April 1947 the Polish State Committee on Public Security issued an order for the implementation of Operation Wisła, and it was sanctioned by a decree of the Presidium of the Council of Ministers of Poland dated 24 April 1947.

Most Polish sources claim the decision was provoked by the death of Gen K. Świerczewski, the Polish deputy minister of defense, in a UPA ambush on 28 March 1947. In reality it had been prepared well in advance, and represented the last of several measures taken by the Soviet and Polish authorities during and after the Second World War to ‘solve' Poland's ‘Ukrainian problem.’ Earlier, on the basis of a Soviet-Polish agreement, signed on 19 September 1944, to ‘repatriate’ Poles in the Ukrainian SSR and Ukrainians in Poland, almost half a million Ukrainians in Poland had been resettled in the Ukrainian SSR. (See Resettlement and Repatriation.)

Gen S. Mossor headed Operational Group Wisła, which included approx 20,000 regular Polish troops as well as internal security troops, members of the militia, and armed civilians. The principle of collective responsibility was applied, and all Ukrainians in the affected territories, regardless of their political views and affiliations, were deported. The deportation process was swift and brutal: deportees were often given only a few hours to prepare themselves, could take only limited belongings, and were transported to their destination in crowded boxcars. The food supply was irregular, sanitary conditions were poor, there were many delays en route, and the deportation process was accompanied by considerable violence. Some deportees died in transit; those who resisted deportation, or were suspected of aiding the UPA, were imprisoned in the Jaworzno prison camp in Silesia.

The deportees were dispersed over a wide area, primarily in the provinces of Olsztyn, Szczecin, Wrocław, and Gdańsk. They were to constitute no more than 10 percent of the population in any one location, and the eventual goal of government policy was their assimilation into the Polish majority.

Living conditions were harsh, since the deportees were not properly compensated for their lost property, and the best land and buildings in the ‘regained territories’ were already occupied by Poles who had been ‘repatriated’ from Soviet-occupied Western Ukraine (Galicia and Volhynia).

Operation Wisła succeeded in atomizing the Ukrainian community in postwar Poland, and the existence of the community was not recognized by the Polish government until 1956, when limited organizational activity was permitted. Before 1957, deportees who tried to return home were imprisoned in the Jaworzno prison camp, and after 1957 only a few thousand were allowed to resettle in their ancestral homeland. Attempts to attract Polish settlers to that area were largely unsuccessful. It continues to be underpopulated, and many distinctive Ukrainian wooden churches and other cultural monuments have been vandalized or destroyed or have fallen into disrepair.

A number of popular Polish novels dealing with Operation Wisła (notably J. Gerhard's Łuny w Bieszczadach [The Glow in the Beskyds]) contributed to a generally negative Polish stereotype of Ukrainians by depicting them in a crude and hostile fashion. Since the 1980s, however, a number of Polish publications have discussed Operation Wisła in a more forthright and objective fashion. Nevertheless, much popular opinion in Poland links and compares the events surrounding Operation Wisła to atrocities perpetrated by Ukrainians against Poles in Volhynia during the Second World War. At an official level there have been some efforts at reconciliation: in August 1990 the Polish Senate passed a resolution condemning Operation Wisła (although the same has never transpired in the Sejm); in May 1997 Polish president A. Kwasniewski and Ukrainian president Leonid Kuchma signed a Declaration of Understanding and Reconciliation in an effort to move beyond mutual recrimination; and in April 2002 (in a letter addressed to a National Rememberance Institute conference commemorating the 55th anniversary of the action) President Kwasniewski openly expressed official regret over the operation and rejected the notion that it should in any way be linked to earlier events in Volhynia.

BIBLIOGRAPHY
Szcześniak, A.B.; Szota, W.Z. Droga do nikąd: Dzialalność Organizacji Ukraińskich Nacjonalistów i jej likwidacja w Polsce (Warsaw 1973)
Trukhan, M. ‘Aktsiia "Visla",’ Vidnova, 3 (Summer–Fall 1985)
Jaworsky, I. ‘Akcja Wisla and Polish-Ukrainian Relations,’ Studium Papers, 12 (April 1988)
Misiło, E. (ed) Akcja ‘Wisła’: Dokumenty (Warsaw 1993)
Misylo, Ye. [Misiło, E.] (ed). Aksiia ‘Visla’: Dokumenty, trans I. Svarnyk (Lviv–New York 1997)
Snyder, T. ‘To Resolve the Ukrainian Question once and for All: The Ethnic Clensing of Ukrainians in Poland, 1943–1947,’ Journal of Cold War Studies, 1, no 2 (Spring 1999)
Żurko, J. (ed) Rozsiedlenie ludności w ramkach akcji “Wisła” w dawnym województwie wrocławskim (Wrocław 2000)
Subtelny, O. ‘Expulsion, Resettlement, Civil Strife: The Fate of Poland’s Ukrainians, 1944–1947,’ in P. Ther and A. Siljak (eds), Redrawing Nations: Ethnic Cleansing in East-Central Europe, 1944–1948 (Lanham, Maryland 2001)
Jasiak, M. ‘Overcoming Ukrainian Resistance: The Deportation of Ukrainians within Poland in 1947,’ in P. Ther and A. Siljak (eds), Redrawing Nations: Ethnic Cleansing in East-Central Europe, 1944–1948 (Lanham, Maryland 2001)
Pisuliński, J. (ed) Akcja “Wisła” (Warsaw 2003)
Tłomacki, A. Akcja “Wisła” w powiecie bialskim na tle walki politicznej i zbrojnej w latach 1944–1947 (Biała Podlaska 2003)

John Jaworsky

[This article originally appeared in the Encyclopedia of Ukraine, vol. 3 (1993). The bibliography has been updated.]


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« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2011, 03:25:01 PM »

On 17 April 1947 the Polish State Committee on Public Security issued an order for the implementation of Operation Wisła, and it was sanctioned by a decree of the Presidium of the Council of Ministers of Poland dated 24 April 1947.

Most Polish sources claim the decision was provoked by the death of Gen K. Świerczewski, the Polish deputy minister of defense, in a UPA ambush on 28 March 1947. In reality it had been prepared well in advance, and represented the last of several measures taken by the Soviet and Polish authorities during and after the Second World War to ‘solve' Poland's ‘Ukrainian problem.’ Earlier, on the basis of a Soviet-Polish agreement, signed on 19 September 1944, to ‘repatriate’ Poles in the Ukrainian SSR and Ukrainians in Poland, almost half a million Ukrainians in Poland had been resettled in the Ukrainian SSR. (See Resettlement and Repatriation.)
That would be your pal Stalin, Synleszka and Greeky.
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« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2011, 12:47:01 PM »

Found this on an English language Ukrainian news service. So much for the 'independence' of a 'sui juris' 'sister' church. It sure looks as if 'Mom' gets the last word!

"Canon 65 of the (Eastern Catholic) Canon Law says that the synod should be held for a month, but the Particular Law allows for the period to be extended to two months.

According to the procedure, after the election of the candidacy of supreme archbishop, the synod informs the pope in a synodal letter about the election of the new supreme archbishop of the church. The newly elected supreme archbishop personally is to sign the letter and ask the pope to approve the election. The newly elected supreme archbishop shall not begin to fulfill his responsibilities until he receives a positive response from the pope.  The newly elected head of the church confesses the faith before the synod and gives an oath to zealously fulfill his responsibility only after the approval of the Vatican. After that, the Synod of Bishops officially declares him new supreme archbishop of the church and appoints the date of enthronement." http://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/catholics/ugcc/40623/


Ironically, as I give this further thought, this appears to be the same sort of process that the UOC-MP would use to select a new Metropolitan, only the final approval would rest with the Patriarch and his synod in Moscow.

It will be interesting to see how all of this plays out within the political situation in Ukraine given the recent installation of a pro-Moscow government.


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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2011, 01:29:58 PM »

Found this on an English language Ukrainian news service. So much for the 'independence' of a 'sui juris' 'sister' church. It sure looks as if 'Mom' gets the last word!
Yes, even when "mom" isn't the Mother Church. But we all knew that. Some just won't admit it.

Ironically, as I give this further thought, this appears to be the same sort of process that the UOC-MP would use to select a new Metropolitan, only the final approval would rest with the Patriarch and his synod in Moscow

Indeed: hence the fact, that under the Vatican, there are no autocephalous Church.

It will be interesting to see how all of this plays out within the political situation in Ukraine given the recent installation of a pro-Moscow government.
Interesting indeed. I'm curious if they will push the "patriarch" title.
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« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2011, 11:39:19 PM »

Indeed: hence the fact, that under the Vatican, there are no autocephalous Church.
In the sense of publicly telling the Vatican to shove off? Not to the degree found in the Orthodox church. But 99% of it is there. (Privately, I'm sure all kinds of things are said that we don't get to hear.) But show me the last time that the Vatican stepped into, say, the Melkite GCC and imposed his will over what their Synod decided?


Found this on an English language Ukrainian news service. So much for the 'independence' of a 'sui juris' 'sister' church. It sure looks as if 'Mom' gets the last word!

Here you see the difference between the churches which have Patriarchal status (by which I mean, recognized as such by Rome), and those where Rome does not (yet) recognize this. The Melkites, for example, elect their Patriarch and merely inform Rome of the selection and (for the sake of formality) request recognition of communion. Upon Joseph Slipyj's release from the Soviet Gulag in the 1960s, Paul VI would not recognize patriarchal status for the Ukrainian church and invented the position of Major Archbishop, using as an excuse, in part, that the church's protos was not on home territory (Lviv). Most Eastern Catholics suspected it was due to the Vatican's Ostpolitik, as it has been called; and directed, of course, at Moscow, specifically, and not at the East in general.

Even the 2011 procedure with Shevchuk was an improvement. In previous times, the bishops submitted 3 names to Rome, of whom Rome chose one. So there is improvement, though sometimes it may seem that even glaciers move faster.

But notice that at least there was an election! In the Latin Church bishops seem all to be appointed directly by Rome, with little if any say by the local church. (I freely accept any correction). At any rate, the final appointment seems to be handed over to the Papal Nuncio in the country. This one really bothers me. The Nuncio is technically a diplomat of the Vatican, in its capacity as a sovereign state, and thus appointed to represent it before the government of the country in question. In one sense, the Nuncio is the Pope's direct representative in that country. What bothers me is this: (1) why are political and ecclesial functions being mixed up? (2) should not the Vatican's veneer, remaining from the long-defunct Papal states, cease to exist? (2) in what sense is some Cardinal, or Archbishop, say of the United States, not the Pope's representative, or even incompetent to be such a representative, for his own country, necessitating the existence of Nuncios?


Ironically, as I give this further thought, this appears to be the same sort of process that the UOC-MP would use to select a new Metropolitan, only the final approval would rest with the Patriarch and his synod in Moscow

More than likely this is true. But then, UOC-MP is not autocephalous enough for some, which is why the UOP-KP and UAOC exist.


Interesting indeed. I'm curious if they will push the "patriarch" title.

You can bet your bottom dollar on it.

Or just wait it out. I've been told by a reliable source that 40 years constitutes a tradition, and 100 years constitutes a law. It's been nearly 50 years since Joseph Slipyj was released and his faithful started unceasingly referring to their hierarch as Patriarch. Then again, Shevchuk could simply send back any mail from Rome addressed to HB Major Archbishop (as has been suggested by some!)
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« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2011, 11:51:45 PM »

Indeed: hence the fact, that under the Vatican, there are no autocephalous Church.
In the sense of publicly telling the Vatican to shove off? Not to the degree found in the Orthodox church. But 99% of it is there. (Privately, I'm sure all kinds of things are said that we don't get to hear.) But show me the last time that the Vatican stepped into, say, the Melkite GCC and imposed his will over what their Synod decided?
Just last year when the bishops were all in the Vatican and complained, for instance, about the ban of married clergy in diaspora.  Of course, the Melkites have been ignoring it for years, and can afford to: the Vatican knows that the Antiochian Church would be more than glad to welcome them home any time.
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« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2011, 08:02:56 PM »

On Byzcath (and elsewhere) there have been rumors floated that the "Ukrainian Church" was fit to be the first Church "reunited"

That's not just a rumor. A couple friends of mine traveled to the future, and when they came back they described the coming reunion to me in great detail. (I also know how many World Series the Red Sox are going to win this century, but unfortunately they swore me to secrecy on that part.)
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« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2011, 10:25:18 PM »

Found this on an English language Ukrainian news service. So much for the 'independence' of a 'sui juris' 'sister' church. It sure looks as if 'Mom' gets the last word!

...

Ironically, as I give this further thought, this appears to be the same sort of process that the UOC-MP would use to select a new Metropolitan, only the final approval would rest with the Patriarch and his synod in Moscow.

Did you ever "Batman Forever", with Tommy Jones as Two Face?
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- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
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