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« on: January 03, 2011, 01:44:15 PM »

what a perplexing book!  I bought it about 6 months ago, and am now half-way through it, using the "bible in one year" thing you get online.  I'll at least keep reading it till I get to the end, but have to say it is a very badly-produced book, with no shortage of spelling mistakes ("Samson" with a "p", indeed).  And then there is the mystery of the book of Obadiah.  Each page in the bible is set out in two columns of text, with study notes at the bottom of the page, and in the new testament, a small section of textual variations at the foot of the second column.  But when we come to the book of Obadiah, we have two columns of text, in a different font to the rest of all the other books, no study notes at all, and a margin of bible references running down the middle of the pages.  It's as though it had been taken out of another version of the bible.

Now I have also been using the "lectionary" at the end of the book, which I started reading in the morning just after the "day of Pentecost".  having reached the end, I turned back to the beginning to discover that I was now about to start "triodion", and that it was now only 4 weeks to lent.  I thought this cannot be right, they are missing weeks.  So on counting out the weeks, I discovered that it only covers 50 weeks.  scuse me there are 52 weeks in the year.  Like the book cost me over £20 you know....not really worth the money I'm afraid
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« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2011, 02:15:36 PM »

How unfortunate that you've had such a bad experience. But I must ask, what edition do you have? My copy of the OSB certainly does not have the problem with Obadiah that you describe. In the book of Judges, the spelling in my copy is "Samson" (though there is a "Saint Sampson" commemorated on June 27).

Your observation about the 32 weeks after Pentecost is correct. However, my version (on page 1773 - at the end of the Weeks after Pentecost) has a notation about what happens when there are more or fewer than 32 weeks in the cycle, concluding with "Refer to the yearly calendar for your diocese for details."

You can find a PDF of errata at http://orthodoxstudybible.com/articles/. Hope this helps a bit. I certainly commend you on your endeavour to read through the Scriptures. I hope the readings themselves are being helpful and encouraging to you in spite of the difficulties that have perplexed you.
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« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2011, 07:37:44 PM »

Dont know which edition I have, but it can't be the first, since the mistakes on the errata page you kindly pointed out to me have already been corrected in my copy.  Btw, Sampson appears only once, at the foot of p.303 (Judges 15:11), and I now see the notation to which you refer at the end of the cycle after Pentecost.  Today I just picked a week at random, which I had already covered, and started from there.
Genesisone, you don't happen to know when "triodion", whatever that means, actually begins?
This will be the 4th bible I've read through completely, and I'm already starting to think what my next one will be.  Any suggestions? (I've done the KJV, NIV, NRSV, and will complete OSB in around 6 mnths time)
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« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2011, 07:45:11 PM »

Genesisone, you don't happen to know when "triodion", whatever that means, actually begins?

You must not be Orthodox. That's probably why you have been confused by things like this (and also why much of what's in the OSB might not seem too valuable to you, i.e. all the stuff about Orthodox liturgical practice).

Triodion is the liturgical period leading up to Pascha (Easter). In other words, it's the liturgical period often called "Lent" in English (but it's structure in Orthodoxy is quite different than in Western confessions, including a sort of Pre-Lent before the full Lent). Thus, it, just like Western Lent, actually begins at various times, depending on the year, since the date of Easter is movable. That's why the OSB cannot have a once-and-for-all schedule, but refers the reader to other sources for the relevant information.

That said, yes, there are a good number of errors and shortcomings in the text (as there are, btw, in all study bibles).

P.S. This year, Triodion begins on Sunday, Feb 13 (or, if you prefer Byzantine time, Vespers on Saturday, Feb 12). Any Orthodox calendar, printed or online, should have the details, e.g. http://goarch.org/chapel/chapel/calendar
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« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2011, 09:13:20 PM »

Dont know which edition I have, but it can't be the first, since the mistakes on the errata page you kindly pointed out to me have already been corrected in my copy.  Btw, Sampson appears only once, at the foot of p.303 (Judges 15:11),
Strangely, the only footnotes on that page and others nearby all have "Samson" in my edition. Typographical errors are common everywhere. My ten year old granddaughter pointed one out to me today in our local newspaper. Misspellings annoy me, too, but I've learned to look past them when they are only occasional.

Quote
and I now see the notation to which you refer at the end of the cycle after Pentecost.  Today I just picked a week at random, which I had already covered, and started from there.
I subscribe to the service provided by this site for my daily readings http://www.dynamispublications.org/.
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Genesisone, you don't happen to know when "triodion", whatever that means, actually begins?
This will be the 4th bible I've read through completely, and I'm already starting to think what my next one will be.  Any suggestions? (I've done the KJV, NIV, NRSV, and will complete OSB in around 6 mnths time)
You've certainly covered the better known ones. A search of this forum will bring up several threads about Bible translations. I won't try to summarize those. Of course you will find a wide variety of opinions!

I would find it interesting if you could take some time to share with us your impressions of the OSB in general, and how it may have shed some light on your studies that you didn't notice in other translations. Perhaps a bit of your background as well, and why you included in the OSB in your reading.
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« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2011, 12:37:21 AM »

I noticed that in my version of the OSB the Book of Isaiah doesn't have any chapter/verses titles and it also doesn't include any study notes at all. I thought that was rather odd considering all of the other books in the bible have titles and study notes.
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« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2011, 10:36:35 AM »

I noticed that in my version of the OSB the Book of Isaiah doesn't have any chapter/verses titles and it also doesn't include any study notes at all. I thought that was rather odd considering all of the other books in the bible have titles and study notes.
I hadn't noticed until you pointed it out, but my OSB lacks chapter titles as well for Isaiah, but does have the study notes.

How many editions/printings are out there?
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« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2011, 01:18:00 PM »

I noticed that in my version of the OSB the Book of Isaiah doesn't have any chapter/verses titles and it also doesn't include any study notes at all. I thought that was rather odd considering all of the other books in the bible have titles and study notes.
I hadn't noticed until you pointed it out, but my OSB lacks chapter titles as well for Isaiah, but does have the study notes.

How many editions/printings are out there?

My mistake. I actually DO have study notes for Isaiah but I don't have titles. I was going off of memory before but once you said that yours has study notes, I wanted to double check mine and I do indeed have study notes.
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« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2011, 01:59:05 PM »

There are some things that the Church does to the "lectionary" that takes years to notice and figure out. (Not unlike the date of Pascha).  You think that you know the rules and then you learn another.   Here are some of my observations:

  • There are two cycles going on, the fixed date cycle (based on calendar dates) and the movable cycle (based on the last Pentecost or next Pascha). And some Saturdays and Sundays before or after fixed dates.  Sometimes the fixed date reading are read, sometimes the movable readings have rank, sometimes they are read together. (this is the easy one to figure out)
  • The harder one to figure out is the "adjustment" of how the movable cycle of one year is going to hit the movable cycle of the next year. (I just wait for my parish to give out calendars).  All Orthodox Churches do not do it the same, but it looks like in my my church, the Sunday before pre-lent is always the the apostolic reading for the 32nd Sunday after Pentecost, and the gospel reading for the 15th Sunday of Luke (Zacchaeus Sunday).  If there are too many readings we just skip then.  But if there are too many weeks and readings need to be repeated, my  church just count backwards from this Sunday back to the Nativity - Theophany interruption.  Starting two Sundays before Christmas to the Sunday after the Theophany fixed readings interupr the cycle.  This is where the "adjustment" is often made.  But I see that some Churches use the reading that was skipped two Sundays before Christmas at another time.
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« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2011, 02:09:01 PM »

I recently purchased this New Testament. It hasn't come in the mail yet (should arrive today or tomorrow), but I am excited to get it as it looks to be preferable translation for me. Has anyone else experience with this New Testament and do they prefer it over the OSB's New Testament?

In Christ,
Andrew
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« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2011, 02:11:36 PM »

There are some things that the Church does to the "lectionary" that takes years to notice and figure out. (Not unlike the date of Pascha).  You think that you know the rules and then you learn another.   Here are some of my observations:

  • There are two cycles going on, the fixed date cycle (based on calendar dates) and the movable cycle (based on the last Pentecost or next Pascha). And some Saturdays and Sundays before or after fixed dates.  Sometimes the fixed date reading are read, sometimes the movable readings have rank, sometimes they are read together. (this is the easy one to figure out)
  • The harder one to figure out is the "adjustment" of how the movable cycle of one year is going to hit the movable cycle of the next year. (I just wait for my parish to give out calendars).  All Orthodox Churches do not do it the same, but it looks like in my my church, the Sunday before pre-lent is always the the apostolic reading for the 32nd Sunday after Pentecost, and the gospel reading for the 15th Sunday of Luke (Zacchaeus Sunday).  If there are too many readings we just skip then.  But if there are too many weeks and readings need to be repeated, my  church just count backwards from this Sunday back to the Nativity - Theophany interruption.  Starting two Sundays before Christmas to the Sunday after the Theophany fixed readings interupr the cycle.  This is where the "adjustment" is often made.  But I see that some Churches use the reading that was skipped two Sundays before Christmas at another time.

Quote
The question of the September Jump is not solved in the same way by all liturgists.

One of the points of departure in determining the sequence of the Tetraevangelium was always the concern that the Sacred Scripture would be read in the course of the year in entirety
http://www.orthodox.net/ustav/lukan-jump.html
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« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2011, 02:27:53 PM »

I recently purchased this New Testament. It hasn't come in the mail yet (should arrive today or tomorrow), but I am excited to get it as it looks to be preferable translation for me. Has anyone else experience with this New Testament and do they prefer it over the OSB's New Testament?

In Christ,
Andrew

I hate to say it, but I found that translation to be horrible (I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who wanted to use it as a main Bible for reading, and am not commenting on the technical accuracy). The main redeeming qualities were the introduction and the footnotes (which have much more helpful and detailed patristic quotations than the OSB). I don't mean to slam them, I found their other books, as well as their icons, to be quite good... but that Bible... *shakes head*
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« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2011, 05:15:50 PM »

genesisone, pensateomnia, thanks for the information & links you provided!
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« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2011, 06:23:48 AM »

I recently purchased this New Testament. It hasn't come in the mail yet (should arrive today or tomorrow), but I am excited to get it as it looks to be preferable translation for me. Has anyone else experience with this New Testament and do they prefer it over the OSB's New Testament?

In Christ,
Andrew
Forgive my inexperience both on the forum and with Orthodoxy, but I can speak about this bible. I've never owned an OSB, but I have the ONT that you ordered. Being a slavish translation from the Greek, literal in all senses of the word, I find it to be likely the best for Orthodox because sentence structure and diction conforms exactly to the Greek subtleties. This also makes it more of a literal "study" bible than I can think possible; you can't really sit down and read it without getting to work in some places. The whole thing isn't like that, and I can read 90% of it just fine and have no trouble using it as my daily reading bible. The lack of flow in the reading and the convoluted sentence structures I think are more than made up for by the wealth of the by-verse patristic quotes and references, and also by the dozens of icons illustrating the stories. Though I think the abridged version you linked to excludes the icons to fit it into one book (mine is two volumes). As an aside, if it matters to you, these folks are the Genuine Orthodox Church of America.
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« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2011, 09:37:19 AM »

The ONT is fantastic. Some do not like the "woodenly literal" translations, but I like it. The footnotes of Patristic writings makes it the best New Testament for any Orthodox Christian. Personally I despise the OSB for much more than the reasons mentioned above, but I have stated that time and tie again in other threads. :-)
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« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2011, 05:05:54 PM »

The ONT is fantastic.

I purchased the ONT a couple of months ago and really, really appreciate it.  I use it as my main Bible for reading in the morning.  It's been years since I regularly read the Bible, but this one really encourages me to keep going.  Part of that is personal of course (the faith tradition we were a part of previously had us abusing the Scriptures for our own gain, so I didn't trust myself to read it on my own for awhile; I was so used to interpreting texts in such a way that the main purpose was to see how they'd benefit *me* financially, intellectually, socially, physically, etc.), but it's not just that.  I especially like the myriads of icons in the text -- they remind me to let the Church interpret for me -- and I always read the notes when I'm done reading the chapters I'm reading that day. I'm looking forward to getting volume 2, the rest of the NT. 
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« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2011, 06:10:18 PM »

I recently purchased this New Testament. It hasn't come in the mail yet (should arrive today or tomorrow), but I am excited to get it as it looks to be preferable translation for me. Has anyone else experience with this New Testament and do they prefer it over the OSB's New Testament?

In Christ,
Andrew
Forgive my inexperience both on the forum and with Orthodoxy, but I can speak about this bible. I've never owned an OSB, but I have the ONT that you ordered. Being a slavish translation from the Greek, literal in all senses of the word, I find it to be likely the best for Orthodox because sentence structure and diction conforms exactly to the Greek subtleties. This also makes it more of a literal "study" bible than I can think possible; you can't really sit down and read it without getting to work in some places. The whole thing isn't like that, and I can read 90% of it just fine and have no trouble using it as my daily reading bible. The lack of flow in the reading and the convoluted sentence structures I think are more than made up for by the wealth of the by-verse patristic quotes and references, and also by the dozens of icons illustrating the stories. Though I think the abridged version you linked to excludes the icons to fit it into one book (mine is two volumes). As an aside, if it matters to you, these folks are the Genuine Orthodox Church of America.

The copy I have does have some icons in it, but no Patristic quotes. Sad Overall, I really like it and will be using it for my daily bible reading. Yeah, I realized after I got it that it was from that group. Someone needs to bring them into canonical Orthodoxy! Wink

In Christ,
Andrew
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« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2011, 06:17:45 PM »

I recently purchased this New Testament. It hasn't come in the mail yet (should arrive today or tomorrow), but I am excited to get it as it looks to be preferable translation for me. Has anyone else experience with this New Testament and do they prefer it over the OSB's New Testament?

In Christ,
Andrew
Forgive my inexperience both on the forum and with Orthodoxy, but I can speak about this bible. I've never owned an OSB, but I have the ONT that you ordered. Being a slavish translation from the Greek, literal in all senses of the word, I find it to be likely the best for Orthodox because sentence structure and diction conforms exactly to the Greek subtleties. This also makes it more of a literal "study" bible than I can think possible; you can't really sit down and read it without getting to work in some places. The whole thing isn't like that, and I can read 90% of it just fine and have no trouble using it as my daily reading bible. The lack of flow in the reading and the convoluted sentence structures I think are more than made up for by the wealth of the by-verse patristic quotes and references, and also by the dozens of icons illustrating the stories. Though I think the abridged version you linked to excludes the icons to fit it into one book (mine is two volumes). As an aside, if it matters to you, these folks are the Genuine Orthodox Church of America.

The copy I have does have some icons in it, but no Patristic quotes. Sad Overall, I really like it and will be using it for my daily bible reading. Yeah, I realized after I got it that it was from that group. Someone needs to bring them into canonical Orthodoxy! Wink

In Christ,
Andrew

You want the hardcovers rather than the pocket edition. They used to be part of the ROCOR until the ROCOR went in to communion with the Cyprianite Synod in Resistance. Their book on the Life of the Virgin Mary, the Theotokos is one of the best books ever on her entire life and all based on Patristic writings!
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« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2011, 12:17:47 AM »

I recently purchased this New Testament. It hasn't come in the mail yet (should arrive today or tomorrow), but I am excited to get it as it looks to be preferable translation for me. Has anyone else experience with this New Testament and do they prefer it over the OSB's New Testament?

In Christ,
Andrew
Forgive my inexperience both on the forum and with Orthodoxy, but I can speak about this bible. I've never owned an OSB, but I have the ONT that you ordered. Being a slavish translation from the Greek, literal in all senses of the word, I find it to be likely the best for Orthodox because sentence structure and diction conforms exactly to the Greek subtleties. This also makes it more of a literal "study" bible than I can think possible; you can't really sit down and read it without getting to work in some places. The whole thing isn't like that, and I can read 90% of it just fine and have no trouble using it as my daily reading bible. The lack of flow in the reading and the convoluted sentence structures I think are more than made up for by the wealth of the by-verse patristic quotes and references, and also by the dozens of icons illustrating the stories. Though I think the abridged version you linked to excludes the icons to fit it into one book (mine is two volumes). As an aside, if it matters to you, these folks are the Genuine Orthodox Church of America.

The copy I have does have some icons in it, but no Patristic quotes. Sad Overall, I really like it and will be using it for my daily bible reading. Yeah, I realized after I got it that it was from that group. Someone needs to bring them into canonical Orthodoxy! Wink

In Christ,
Andrew

You want the hardcovers rather than the pocket edition. They used to be part of the ROCOR until the ROCOR went in to communion with the Cyprianite Synod in Resistance. Their book on the Life of the Virgin Mary, the Theotokos is one of the best books ever on her entire life and all based on Patristic writings!

I will have to look for the other ones. I have read much of their book on the Theotokos and used it for the basis of a paper once. Their books are excellent, but their idea of being the only true Orthodox Church are a little..erm...nutty.

In Christ,
Andrew
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« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2011, 01:10:40 AM »

I subscribe to the service provided by this site for my daily readings http://www.dynamispublications.org/.

Glad to hear you enjoy these readings! It's exciting to know that this service is used by those as far as Ontario (at least) Smiley
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« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2011, 01:18:04 AM »

Most of the books were done when they were with ROCOR, if it makes you feel better.
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« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2011, 01:23:28 AM »

The ONT is fantastic. Some do not like the "woodenly literal" translations, but I like it. The footnotes of Patristic writings makes it the best New Testament for any Orthodox Christian. Personally I despise the OSB for much more than the reasons mentioned above, but I have stated that time and tie again in other threads. :-)

Has that same publisher done anything with the Old Testament?
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« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2011, 05:55:37 AM »

One of you (I forget who) extracted from me a not unwilling promise to read the OSB for a year, and I duly bought the NT+Psalms (Nashville, Tennessee, 1993, 1997). A number of comments come to mind:

1. I had the same problem as mentioned above by someone else: I couldn't follow the dates, and eventually got so lost that I read it only for about ten months.

2. I found very little in the comments that would be different from what an Evangelical would write. I am not saying that is a good thing or a bad thing - just making the observation.

3. It seemed to be largely a commentary for beginners - again not a bad thing in itself at all; but it seemed to take me more deeply neither into the scriptures per se, nor into Orthodoxy in particular.

Not disapproving criticisms, just obervations.
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« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2011, 08:41:18 PM »

The ONT is fantastic. Some do not like the "woodenly literal" translations, but I like it. The footnotes of Patristic writings makes it the best New Testament for any Orthodox Christian. Personally I despise the OSB for much more than the reasons mentioned above, but I have stated that time and tie again in other threads. :-)

Has that same publisher done anything with the Old Testament?

They have an awesome book of the Lives of the Holy Prophets, but sadly that is all they have completed so far.
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« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2011, 04:12:55 PM »

"Samson" with a "p", indeed

Sampson is the Greek spelling. True, it's an inconsistency, but it is still a valid alternate spelling.

Errors--my book has the "Sampson" spelling, but none of the other mistakes anyone else mentioned. Strange. I have noticed that the cross-references given in the notes often tell me to look up imaginary verses and such. It's clearly not well-edited, but if you don't mind that, the content isn't bad. I mean, it's not exactly professional, but it's a start. My favorite part was when they said that 2nd Kingdoms was written by Samuel, who dies halfway through 1st Kingdoms. Roll Eyes

I recently purchased this New Testament. It hasn't come in the mail yet (should arrive today or tomorrow), but I am excited to get it as it looks to be preferable translation for me. Has anyone else experience with this New Testament and do they prefer it over the OSB's New Testament?

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Everybody beware of the one-volume black edition of this bible! It doesn't have the Patristic commentary in it, which is what makes it so good. The commentary is only in the two-volume version, which I think is not availible on Amazon (not when I got it, at least).

One of you (I forget who) extracted from me a not unwilling promise to read the OSB for a year, and I duly bought the NT+Psalms (Nashville, Tennessee, 1993, 1997). A number of comments come to mind:

1. I had the same problem as mentioned above by someone else: I couldn't follow the dates, and eventually got so lost that I read it only for about ten months.

The dates are almost impossible to follow out of a lectionary, because the pages are so thin. I keep a wall calendar for daily readings, which is much easier. That being said, the lectionary is mainly for liturgical and devotional purposes, whereas if one is interested in theological study it is probably better just to read it straight through.

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2. I found very little in the comments that would be different from what an Evangelical would write. I am not saying that is a good thing or a bad thing - just making the observation.

The NT+Psalms version is sort of like that. It's more of a propaganda tool than anything else, and most of the editing committee is former Evangelicals. So it's to be expected that there would be similarities. Traditional Orthodox commentaries written by the Church Fathers say lots of things that would not be agreeable to an Evangelical (or most anyone else). St. John Chrysostom sticks out to me as a particularly "Protestant-sounding" commentator.

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3. It seemed to be largely a commentary for beginners - again not a bad thing in itself at all; but it seemed to take me more deeply neither into the scriptures per se, nor into Orthodoxy in particular.

One monk said that the notes were written at the level of a "not-very-bright Sunday School class." In the new edition, which includes the Old Testament, the notes were revised, with superfluous material cut out and more Patristic material added in. The OT is particularly useful, because the notes explain the types and prophecies, which Protestant Bibles generally don't deal with as much.
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« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2011, 07:49:20 PM »

Everybody beware of the one-volume black edition of this bible! It doesn't have the Patristic commentary in it, which is what makes it so good. The commentary is only in the two-volume version, which I think is not availible on Amazon (not when I got it, at least).

It is available. Here is the linkage to some of their books there:

The Lives of the Saints
Volume 1: The Lives of the Three Holy Heirarchs
Volume 2: The Lives of the Holy Apostles
Volume 3: The Lives of the Saints of the Holy Land & Sinai Desert
Volume 4: The Life of the Virgin Mary, The Theotokos
Volume 5: The Lives of the Pillars of Orthodoxy
Volume 6: The Lives of the Spiritual Mothers
Volume 7: The Lives of the Holy Women Martyrs
The Lives of the Holy Prophets


Orthodox New Testament
The Lives of the Holy Prophets
Volume 1: Evangelistarion - The Holy Gospels
Volume 2: Praxapostolos - Acts, Epistles, and Revelation

The Teachings of the Holy Orthodox Church
Volume 1: God, Creation, Old Israel, Christ
The Lives of the Holy Prophets
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