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Offline henrikhankhagnell

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learning about coptic church
« on: February 10, 2011, 01:35:44 PM »
Ave Maria!
I am very interested in the Coptic spirituality. What would be the best way to learn about this great treasure? and what are the differences between the Coptic Orthodox and the Coptic Catholic? Should a Swedish man go to Oriental or Western spirituality?
searching for the church that is both catholic and orthodox...

Offline Salpy

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Re: learning about coptic church
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2011, 09:01:24 PM »
Welcome to the forum!

The Coptic Church is definitely a wonderful Church, and it certainly would be worth a visit.

If you click on the "Coptic Orthodox Church" tag, below, you'll find other threads you can read on the subject of Coptic Christianity.

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: learning about coptic church
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2011, 11:57:14 PM »
and what are the differences between the Coptic Orthodox and the Coptic Catholic?

The main difference is that the Coptic "Catholics" have left the Coptic Orthodox Church, accepted "communion" with the "Bishop" of Rome, and are now bound to Rome's divergent dogmas.

Should a Swedish man go to Oriental or Western spirituality?

Spirituality or doctrine?

Most certainly I would advocate you accepting the Oriental doctrine.

As to the spirituality, what matters is what speaks to your soul. If that is Western, then you should be able to hold Oriental doctrine and Western spiritual emphasis. However, unfortunately, such a way of being is almost never possible in the Oriental Orthodox tradition at this point.
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Offline mike

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Re: learning about coptic church
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2011, 07:05:13 AM »
As to the spirituality, what matters is what speaks to your soul. If that is Western, then you should be able to hold Oriental doctrine and Western spiritual emphasis. However, unfortunately, such a way of being is almost never possible in the Oriental Orthodox tradition at this point.

British Orthodox Church and the French Coptic Orthodox Church?
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Offline Andrew - The First Called

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Re: learning about coptic church
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2011, 03:19:51 PM »
If you have facebook, here is a page about the Coptic Orthodox Church with useful links and notes. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Enquiries-into-Coptic-Orthodoxy/102690906474131
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 03:20:42 PM by Andrew - The First Called »

Offline Papist

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Re: learning about coptic church
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2011, 03:22:48 PM »
I would like to visit a Coptic Orthodox Liturgy here in New Mexico. How are relations between Catholics and Coptic Orthodox?
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Offline mike

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Re: learning about coptic church
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2011, 03:41:03 PM »
They are not in communion with each other.
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: learning about coptic church
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2011, 03:45:24 PM »
I would like to visit a Coptic Orthodox Liturgy here in New Mexico. How are relations between Catholics and Coptic Orthodox?

Cordial, still in dialogue, but generally upset with the RC agreement with the Assyrian Church.

When it comes to disagreements, we hold similar polemical views the EO's hold, with added anti-Chalcedonian perspective.
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: learning about coptic church
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2011, 05:36:17 PM »
British Orthodox Church and the French Coptic Orthodox Church?

Certainly it could be said that with respect to culture that the BOC and FCOC are somewhat Westernized. However, that pretty much only leaves them as Western as the OCA. In terms of spiritual and liturgical tradition they are still Eastern/Oriental.
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: learning about coptic church
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2011, 05:36:52 PM »
I would like to visit a Coptic Orthodox Liturgy here in New Mexico. How are relations between Catholics and Coptic Orthodox?

Relations...

What exactly do you mean?
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Offline Salpy

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Re: learning about coptic church
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2011, 03:38:47 AM »
British Orthodox Church and the French Coptic Orthodox Church?

Certainly it could be said that with respect to culture that the BOC and FCOC are somewhat Westernized. However, that pretty much only leaves them as Western as the OCA. In terms of spiritual and liturgical tradition they are still Eastern/Oriental.

I don't know.  I think the Orthodox can be Western as well as Eastern.  Take for example this British Orthodox website, which talks about holy places in Kent, including an ancient house church:

http://www.orthodoxmedway.org/holyplaces.php

I don't see why the ancient house church should be seen as something that belongs only to the West and not the East.  I think that when Orthodoxy becomes more firmly established in the West, they will be able to make the connection with the ancient Christian past there.

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: learning about coptic church
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2011, 06:58:07 PM »
British Orthodox Church and the French Coptic Orthodox Church?

Certainly it could be said that with respect to culture that the BOC and FCOC are somewhat Westernized. However, that pretty much only leaves them as Western as the OCA. In terms of spiritual and liturgical tradition they are still Eastern/Oriental.

I don't know.  I think the Orthodox can be Western as well as Eastern.  Take for example this British Orthodox website, which talks about holy places in Kent, including an ancient house church:

http://www.orthodoxmedway.org/holyplaces.php

I don't see why the ancient house church should be seen as something that belongs only to the West and not the East.  I think that when Orthodoxy becomes more firmly established in the West, they will be able to make the connection with the ancient Christian past there.

Sure, but if a church does not enact an explicit change of rite then its appropriation to the culture is a much more gradual process; it seems that the BOC and the FCOC are both still mostly Oriental in their spiritual character.
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Offline copticmind

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Re: learning about coptic church
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2011, 10:03:35 AM »
Ave Maria!
I am very interested in the Coptic spirituality. What would be the best way to learn about this great treasure? and what are the differences between the Coptic Orthodox and the Coptic Catholic? Should a Swedish man go to Oriental or Western spirituality?


welcome to the forum!

I am a Copt living in Gothenburg, Sweden, and I am really happy to find more Swedes interested in Coptic Orthodoxy.
I suggest that you go and try yourself, get in contact and experience how it is like to be in such environment.
Here is the website of the Coptic church in Sweden: http://www.copt.se/ where you can find contact details and addresses.
Good luck in your journey,
In Christ,
George
Ⲡⲁϭⲟⲓⲥ Ⲓⲏⲥ Ⲡⲭⲥ ⳿ⲡϣⲏⲣⲓ ⳿ⲙ⳿Ⲫⲛⲟⲩϯ ⲛⲁⲓ ⲛⲏⲓ ⲁⲛⲟⲕ ⲡⲓⲣⲉϥⲉⲣⲛⲟⲃⲓ
يا ربي يسوع المسيح ابن الله ارحمني أنا الخاطئ

Offline henrikhankhagnell

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Re: learning about coptic church
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2011, 10:28:07 AM »
Ave Maria!
I am very interested in the Coptic spirituality. What would be the best way to learn about this great treasure? and what are the differences between the Coptic Orthodox and the Coptic Catholic? Should a Swedish man go to Oriental or Western spirituality?


welcome to the forum!

I am a Copt living in Gothenburg, Sweden, and I am really happy to find more Swedes interested in Coptic Orthodoxy.
I suggest that you go and try yourself, get in contact and experience how it is like to be in such environment.
Here is the website of the Coptic church in Sweden: http://www.copt.se/ where you can find contact details and addresses.
Good luck in your journey,
In Christ,
George
when is the liturgy?
searching for the church that is both catholic and orthodox...

Offline copticmind

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Re: learning about coptic church
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2011, 10:51:40 AM »
I know the liturgy time in the church in Göteborg: it is on Sundays at 9:00 am
but for Stockholm, you can contact abouna Marcos (his number is in the website mentioned above) and ask him, he will be more than happy to help.
If you are in Göteborg, then tell me, I might help :)
Ⲡⲁϭⲟⲓⲥ Ⲓⲏⲥ Ⲡⲭⲥ ⳿ⲡϣⲏⲣⲓ ⳿ⲙ⳿Ⲫⲛⲟⲩϯ ⲛⲁⲓ ⲛⲏⲓ ⲁⲛⲟⲕ ⲡⲓⲣⲉϥⲉⲣⲛⲟⲃⲓ
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Offline Severian

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Re: learning about coptic church
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2011, 01:26:25 AM »
I would like to visit a Coptic Orthodox Liturgy here in New Mexico. How are relations between Catholics and Coptic Orthodox?
Honestly, and I mean no offence when I say this to you, but I think a lot of Orthodox Copts dislike Coptic Catholicism because most Coptic Catholics are converts from Orthodoxy. We just have the mindset of "Well, we are already Christian, why try proselytizing us?" We like you guys better than Egyptian Protestants, though.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 01:27:49 AM by Severian »
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The Saviour is made of elements which are distinct from one another yet He is not two Persons. God forbid! For both natures are one by the combination. -St. Gregory Nazianzen

Offline ialmisry

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Re: learning about coptic church
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2011, 01:31:20 AM »
Ave Maria!
I am very interested in the Coptic spirituality. What would be the best way to learn about this great treasure? and what are the differences between the Coptic Orthodox and the Coptic Catholic? Should a Swedish man go to Oriental or Western spirituality?

Btw, in Coptic it is Shere ne Maria!
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: learning about coptic church
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2011, 01:32:42 AM »
I would like to visit a Coptic Orthodox Liturgy here in New Mexico. How are relations between Catholics and Coptic Orthodox?
Honestly, and I mean no offence when I say this to you, but I think a lot of Orthodox Copts dislike Coptic Catholicism because most Coptic Catholics are converts from Orthodoxy. We just have the mindset of "Well, we are already Christian, why try proselytizing us?" We like you guys better than Egyptian Protestants, though.
Just don't mention mardukm. :P
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Severian

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Re: learning about coptic church
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2011, 01:36:19 AM »
I would like to visit a Coptic Orthodox Liturgy here in New Mexico. How are relations between Catholics and Coptic Orthodox?
Honestly, and I mean no offence when I say this to you, but I think a lot of Orthodox Copts dislike Coptic Catholicism because most Coptic Catholics are converts from Orthodoxy. We just have the mindset of "Well, we are already Christian, why try proselytizing us?" We like you guys better than Egyptian Protestants, though.
Just don't mention mardukm. :P
Lord have mercy on him! Seriously, I hope he repents and returns to Orthodoxy. I've read some of his posts where he practically tries to proselytize people, which I think is just plain disgusting, especially on an Orthodox forum. I hope this post won't be perceived as ad hominem, I mean no offence to him as a human being. I just think many of his actions are wrong.

God bless,
Severian
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 01:37:51 AM by Severian »
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. -The Lord Jesus

The Saviour is made of elements which are distinct from one another yet He is not two Persons. God forbid! For both natures are one by the combination. -St. Gregory Nazianzen

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: learning about coptic church
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2011, 01:46:03 AM »
I would like to visit a Coptic Orthodox Liturgy here in New Mexico. How are relations between Catholics and Coptic Orthodox?
Honestly, and I mean no offence when I say this to you, but I think a lot of Orthodox Copts dislike Coptic Catholicism because most Coptic Catholics are converts from Orthodoxy. We just have the mindset of "Well, we are already Christian, why try proselytizing us?" We like you guys better than Egyptian Protestants, though.

I have found that attitudes towards Papists in general are often rather negative among Copts.
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Offline Severian

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Re: learning about coptic church
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2011, 01:53:27 AM »
I would like to visit a Coptic Orthodox Liturgy here in New Mexico. How are relations between Catholics and Coptic Orthodox?
Honestly, and I mean no offence when I say this to you, but I think a lot of Orthodox Copts dislike Coptic Catholicism because most Coptic Catholics are converts from Orthodoxy. We just have the mindset of "Well, we are already Christian, why try proselytizing us?" We like you guys better than Egyptian Protestants, though.

I have found that attitudes towards Papists in general are often rather negative among Copts.
Yup, but I try to muster whatever kindness I can towards RCs. I part of me would just like to tell every Coptic Catholic Egyptian "get out of here, this is an Orthodox country, it's bad enough we've been persecuted and marginalized for 1400 years and now you guys come along!" However, I read an article a couple months ago where Coptic Catholics helped the Coptic Orthodox from Salafists, I even heard of a Catholic bishop's nephew getting murdered because he sheltered an Orthodox Priest in his home from Salafists.

I know I might sound like a wimp when I say this, but, I just hope all people in Egypt, of all religions, learn to live in peace.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 02:03:57 AM by Severian »
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. -The Lord Jesus

The Saviour is made of elements which are distinct from one another yet He is not two Persons. God forbid! For both natures are one by the combination. -St. Gregory Nazianzen

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: learning about coptic church
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2011, 01:55:28 AM »
I know I might sound like a wimp when I say this, but, I just hope all people in Egypt, of all religions learn to live in peace.

It's certainly a very high priority.
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Offline Severian

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Re: learning about coptic church
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2011, 01:56:50 AM »
I know I might sound like a wimp when I say this, but, I just hope all people in Egypt, of all religions learn to live in peace.

It's certainly a very high priority.
Lord grant peace to Egypt, through the prayers of the Prophet Isaiah, who said "blessed is Egypt my people"! ~(Isaiah 19:25)

« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 02:00:31 AM by Severian »
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. -The Lord Jesus

The Saviour is made of elements which are distinct from one another yet He is not two Persons. God forbid! For both natures are one by the combination. -St. Gregory Nazianzen

Offline CoptoGeek

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Re: learning about coptic church
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2011, 08:51:46 AM »
I would like to visit a Coptic Orthodox Liturgy here in New Mexico. How are relations between Catholics and Coptic Orthodox?
Honestly, and I mean no offence when I say this to you, but I think a lot of Orthodox Copts dislike Coptic Catholicism because most Coptic Catholics are converts from Orthodoxy. We just have the mindset of "Well, we are already Christian, why try proselytizing us?" We like you guys better than Egyptian Protestants, though.

The Coptic Catholic has ceased proselytizing the Orthodox a long time ago and relations are generally warm between our Churches. They've also produced a number of important scholars of Coptic culture, history, etc. But, of course there is no intercommunion except for emergencies.

Also, we shouldn't paint all Protestants in Egypt with the same brush. Very many of them are very respectful to our Church, especially to HH Pope Shenouda (also Abouna Makary Younan & others), and even read his books & listen to his sermons. Its from the more recently American influenced ones that you'll see the more polemical attitude and the shady proselytizing techniques.

The recent events since Jan25 have brought all Egyptians of good will closer together; Christian & Muslim, Orthodox & Non-Orthodox. 

Having said all that, I would love for all to return to the Orthodox faith. But we achieve that but loving them and showing Christ in us and not by any other way.
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