Author Topic: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft  (Read 2267 times)

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Offline Jetavan

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Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« on: February 08, 2011, 06:33:14 PM »
According to Elizabeth Dodd, a former Wiccan, in her pamphlet Wicca and Witchcraft: Understanding the Danger (published by the Vatican-associated publisher, the Catholic Truth Society in England), the Roman Catholic Church has changed its position on the treatment of persons who are Wiccans and witches.
....
In the guide, the author says that it is important to recognize that Wiccans are on a genuine spiritual quest providing a starting point for dialog that may lead to their conversion. She goes on to say that "whether spellwork is effective or not has no bearing on the psychological damage that can be done to a young person who is convinced that they have summoned the dead, or have performed a spell that has hurt or injured another."

____________
What this implies is that the Roman Catholic Church may now start inter-faith dialogue with Wiccans and other Neo-Pagans, just as it does with Protestants, Jews, and Zoroastrians.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 06:33:45 PM by Jetavan »
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2011, 06:35:11 PM »
According to Elizabeth Dodd, a former Wiccan, in her pamphlet Wicca and Witchcraft: Understanding the Danger (published by the Vatican-associated publisher, the Catholic Truth Society in England), the Roman Catholic Church has changed its position on the treatment of persons who are Wiccans and witches.
....
In the guide, the author says that it is important to recognize that Wiccans are on a genuine spiritual quest providing a starting point for dialog that may lead to their conversion. She goes on to say that "whether spellwork is effective or not has no bearing on the psychological damage that can be done to a young person who is convinced that they have summoned the dead, or have performed a spell that has hurt or injured another."

____________
What this implies is that the Roman Catholic Church may now start inter-faith dialogue with Wiccans and other Neo-Pagans, just as it does with Protestants, Jews, and Zoroastrians.


Personally, I think it is a step in the right direction from burning them.
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2011, 06:36:17 PM »
According to Elizabeth Dodd, a former Wiccan, in her pamphlet Wicca and Witchcraft: Understanding the Danger (published by the Vatican-associated publisher, the Catholic Truth Society in England), the Roman Catholic Church has changed its position on the treatment of persons who are Wiccans and witches.
....
In the guide, the author says that it is important to recognize that Wiccans are on a genuine spiritual quest providing a starting point for dialog that may lead to their conversion. She goes on to say that "whether spellwork is effective or not has no bearing on the psychological damage that can be done to a young person who is convinced that they have summoned the dead, or have performed a spell that has hurt or injured another."

____________
What this implies is that the Roman Catholic Church may now start inter-faith dialogue with Wiccans and other Neo-Pagans, just as it does with Protestants, Jews, and Zoroastrians.


Personally, I think it is a step in the right direction from burning them.
This is doctrinal development that I can believe in. :)
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Punch

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Re: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2011, 06:53:54 PM »
I would not have gone all the way to dialogue.  I think that I would have stopped at shooting them.  Burning is a bit too cruel.


According to Elizabeth Dodd, a former Wiccan, in her pamphlet Wicca and Witchcraft: Understanding the Danger (published by the Vatican-associated publisher, the Catholic Truth Society in England), the Roman Catholic Church has changed its position on the treatment of persons who are Wiccans and witches.
....
In the guide, the author says that it is important to recognize that Wiccans are on a genuine spiritual quest providing a starting point for dialog that may lead to their conversion. She goes on to say that "whether spellwork is effective or not has no bearing on the psychological damage that can be done to a young person who is convinced that they have summoned the dead, or have performed a spell that has hurt or injured another."

____________
What this implies is that the Roman Catholic Church may now start inter-faith dialogue with Wiccans and other Neo-Pagans, just as it does with Protestants, Jews, and Zoroastrians.


Personally, I think it is a step in the right direction from burning them.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2011, 06:55:04 PM »
I think saying there is a change in position implies too much that there was a position in the first place. Neo-paganism is a new phenomenon, just as is "ecumenical dialogue," and both may be inspired by the same principle, but that is another matter.
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2011, 06:58:37 PM »
I would not have gone all the way to dialogue.  I think that I would have stopped at shooting them.  Burning is a bit too cruel.

I can't tell if you're joking... I'm a bit frightened... I'm leaving this thread now... begging your pardon sir...
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Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2011, 07:05:35 PM »
You're not going to win too many converts condemning people for their beliefs (much less by burning them). The RCC knows this.

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2011, 07:16:38 PM »
I never took the course on historical witchcraft, but I recall the Protestant English Puritans being the most recent infamous witch burners. I think the Roman Catholics stopped burning witches around the time they stopped burning heretics.
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Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2011, 07:19:25 PM »
I bet Christine O'Donnell would be happy about this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxJyPsmEask

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2011, 07:21:44 PM »
^ Lol. Jetavan as well  :P
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Offline CRCulver

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Re: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2011, 09:03:18 PM »
You're not going to win too many converts condemning people for their beliefs (much less by burning them). The RCC knows this.

You're also not going to win many converts by "dialoguing" with people to a degree where they think that they are progressing just fine in their spiritual search where they are, and don't need to move out of their present religion. I've seen assertions to this effect often, "The Catholic Church nowadays says it's OK to be a Buddhist/Muslim/Hindu. They aren't missing out on the divine just because they aren't in the Church."
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 09:04:50 PM by CRCulver »

Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2011, 09:04:32 PM »
I think you have to differentiate Wiccans from Wicca when reading this.  The short passage quoted makes no statement that implies the RCC sanctions or recognizes Wicca.  It does appear to acknowledge that Wiccans, or people who turn to Wicca for spiritual help, are sincere.  However, sincerity and reality can be two entirely different things.

By the way, http://www.amazon.com/Witchcraft-Very-Short-Introduction-Introductions/dp/019923695X/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1297213249&sr=8-9 is a really good book on the history of the RCC and witchcraft.  His analysis proves that the portrait of wild-eyed inquisitors and witchcraft trial gone mad are quite the exception.  Most witch trials were not run by the RCC but feudal lords trying to work through disputes between their peasants.  On afverage, the conviction rates were low and executions even rarer.


According to Elizabeth Dodd, a former Wiccan, in her pamphlet Wicca and Witchcraft: Understanding the Danger (published by the Vatican-associated publisher, the Catholic Truth Society in England), the Roman Catholic Church has changed its position on the treatment of persons who are Wiccans and witches.
....
In the guide, the author says that it is important to recognize that Wiccans are on a genuine spiritual quest providing a starting point for dialog that may lead to their conversion. She goes on to say that "whether spellwork is effective or not has no bearing on the psychological damage that can be done to a young person who is convinced that they have summoned the dead, or have performed a spell that has hurt or injured another."

____________
What this implies is that the Roman Catholic Church may now start inter-faith dialogue with Wiccans and other Neo-Pagans, just as it does with Protestants, Jews, and Zoroastrians.

http://orthodoxyandrecovery.blogspot.com
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Offline Brigidsboy

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Re: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2011, 09:20:30 PM »
You're not going to win too many converts condemning people for their beliefs (much less by burning them). The RCC knows this.

You're also not going to win many converts by "dialoguing" with people to a degree where they think that they are progressing just fine in their spiritual search where they are, and don't need to move out of their present religion. I've seen assertions to this effect often, "The Catholic Church nowadays says it's OK to be a Buddhist/Muslim/Hindu. They aren't missing out on the divine just because they aren't in the Church."

I grew up Catholic after the reforms of the 1960's. I can assure you the Church does not teach this. I do not have a copy of the Catechism to refer to at  the moment, but I am sure you are mistaken about this.
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Offline CRCulver

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Re: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2011, 09:23:55 PM »
I grew up Catholic after the reforms of the 1960's. I can assure you the Church does not teach this. I do not have a copy of the Catechism to refer to at  the moment, but I am sure you are mistaken about this.

What matters is how the Roman Catholic Church is now perceived by some communities due to its compromising stance on dialogue. It doesn't matter what the Roman Catholic Church actually teaches, as people who have gained such an impression aren't going to get close enough to find out.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2011, 10:25:14 PM »
I think these kinds of developments really give credence to arguments by Richard Dawkins and the like which assert that morality is not exclusively determined by religious teachings which are revealed, but rather in any religion it is also shaped by the larger cultural standards and morals, which then influence and determine the religious position. Often we argue that without the Christian faith we would have no moral compass, but the moral compass seems to be in flux most of the time.

Offline Rdunbar123

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Re: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2011, 07:12:46 AM »
I agree 100%. This is one reason I am persuing orthodoxy. Since Vatican II there has been an "i'm OK you're ok " tone toward other religions in The RCC.
You're not going to win too many converts condemning people for their beliefs (much less by burning them). The RCC knows this.

You're also not going to win many converts by "dialoguing" with people to a degree where they think that they are progressing just fine in their spiritual search where they are, and don't need to move out of their present religion. I've seen assertions to this effect often, "The Catholic Church nowadays says it's OK to be a Buddhist/Muslim/Hindu. They aren't missing out on the divine just because they aren't in the Church."

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2011, 07:22:03 AM »
Yeah, in Orthodoxy it's more like "I'm not ok, you're not ok, but that's ok"  :D
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2011, 09:04:52 AM »
Wicca is a 20th century religion with very little to do with medieval witchcraft or paganism. The real paganism would make them poop their pants, methinks.
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2011, 03:23:27 PM »
You're not going to win too many converts condemning people for their beliefs (much less by burning them). The RCC knows this.

I don't see where this is a call to dialogue with witches and witchcraft by the Pope. Rather it seems to me to be a recognize a cautionary approach to understand that many adherents of Wicca are misguided souls and that engaging them and reaching out in the name of Christ and the Gospel may allow them to see the errors in their practices and beliefs and lead them on to the path of salvation through the church.

But , nah...let's just shoot or burn them?  Give me a break.

It's no wonder what we have Lent each year and are read the same readings by our Church on the Sundays leading up to Pascha.

And don't tell me that the shooting or burning thing is supposed to be funny.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2011, 03:48:35 PM »
And don't tell me that the shooting or burning thing is supposed to be funny.

How could it be to someone with no sense of sarcasm?

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2011, 03:49:07 PM »
Yeah, in Orthodoxy it's more like "I'm not ok, you're not ok, but that's ok"  :D

Post of the month nomination.

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2011, 04:19:19 PM »
And don't tell me that the shooting or burning thing is supposed to be funny.

How could it be to someone with no sense of sarcasm?

Not when it is snarky, juvenile or always boastful.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2011, 11:06:36 PM »
Not when it is snarky, juvenile or always boastful.

Don't break your neck when you fall off your high horse.

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Re: Catholics change position on Wicca and witchcraft
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2011, 01:59:18 PM »
Yeah, in Orthodoxy it's more like "I'm not ok, you're not ok, but that's ok"  :D
Haha. We are with ya there buddy.  :D
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