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Author Topic: Hypothetically speaking, if the bones of Jesus were found...  (Read 3505 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: February 04, 2011, 07:31:51 PM »

If we managed to find his bones, and we could somehow prove those were Jesus' bones. Would you stop being a Christian?

I would say yes.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 07:32:08 PM by Aposphet » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2011, 07:40:10 PM »

This is a pointless question. It is like asking what you would do if the sky turned green tomorrow.
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« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2011, 07:56:40 PM »

This is a pointless question. It is like asking what you would do if the sky turned green tomorrow.
Pointless it may be, but I've heard so very startling answers to this question from other Christians.
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« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2011, 07:59:21 PM »

I think this question has been around the block a few times here, already.
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« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2011, 08:01:19 PM »

You might as well ask "if Buddhism were true..." or "if Muhammad were truly God's prophet..." It's silly and, yes, pointless.
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« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2011, 08:06:24 PM »

If we managed to find his bones, and we could somehow prove those were Jesus' bones. Would you stop being a Christian?

I would say yes.

I don't care....

You will have allowed James Cameron and the Discovery Channel to influence your faith praxis (practice)?
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« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2011, 08:07:46 PM »

If we managed to find his bones, and we could somehow prove those were Jesus' bones. Would you stop being a Christian?

I would say yes.

I don't care....

You will have allowed James Cameron and the Discovery Channel to influence your faith praxis (practice)?
If they were found, why would you even bother?
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« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2011, 08:10:29 PM »

If we managed to find his bones, and we could somehow prove those were Jesus' bones. Would you stop being a Christian?

I would say yes.

I don't care....

You will have allowed James Cameron and the Discovery Channel to influence your faith praxis (practice)?
If they were found, why would you even bother?

And if pigs could fly, what kind of umbrella would you need?
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« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2011, 08:12:31 PM »

There is a Christian fictionbook written on this premise called "A skeleton in God's Closet" that was written by Paul Maier. Interestingly, he also wrote translations of Eusiebus and Josephus as well.
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« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2011, 08:13:28 PM »

If we managed to find his bones, and we could somehow prove those were Jesus' bones. Would you stop being a Christian?

I would say yes.

I don't care....

You will have allowed James Cameron and the Discovery Channel to influence your faith praxis (practice)?
If they were found, why would you even bother?

Because James Cameron and the Discovery Channel are not the Gospel and neither is The News of the World tabloid which published the supposedly skeletons of Adam & Eve.
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« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2011, 08:15:21 PM »

Hypothetically speaking (not that I speak hypothetical well as I do not believe in using them because they will never happen, hence the term hypothetical) how would they prove the the bones were the bones of Jesus?
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« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2011, 08:20:09 PM »

Hypothetically speaking (not that I speak hypothetical well as I do not believe in using them because they will never happen, hence the term hypothetical) how would they prove the the bones were the bones of Jesus?
That's what I mean by hypothetically speaking, just let's say if it was possible. What would you do?

Quote
Because James Cameron and the Discovery Channel are not the Gospel and neither is The News of the World tabloid which published the supposedly skeletons of Adam & Eve.
You're not getting it. If it was proven factually without a shadow of a doubt, what would you do? Still be a Christian?
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« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2011, 08:28:47 PM »

If we managed to find his bones, and we could somehow prove those were Jesus' bones. Would you stop being a Christian?

I would say yes.

I don't care....

You will have allowed James Cameron and the Discovery Channel to influence your faith praxis (practice)?
If they were found, why would you even bother?

And if pigs could fly, what kind of umbrella would you need?
LOL. I'lll have to remember that one.

To the OP: there is no way it could be proved.
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« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2011, 08:33:34 PM »

Hypothetically speaking (not that I speak hypothetical well as I do not believe in using them because they will never happen, hence the term hypothetical) how would they prove the the bones were the bones of Jesus?
That's what I mean by hypothetically speaking, just let's say if it was possible. What would you do?

That would depend how they were able to "prove" that they were the bones of Jesus, that is why I asked the question.
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« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2011, 08:36:57 PM »

1 Cor 15:14
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« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2011, 08:38:10 PM »

1 Cor 15:14

Thank you.
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« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2011, 08:41:05 PM »

1 Cor 15:14

I would assume that everyone thought of that verse, but then wondered... how applicable is it? Could such a thing as asked in the OP ever be proved to the satisfaction of someone who truly had faith? I don't know...
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« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2011, 08:43:58 PM »

You're not getting it. If it was proven factually without a shadow of a doubt, what would you do? Still be a Christian?

You might as well ask what if Jesus was never born.  There are history fora where people beat that topic senseless.

Because I (and others here) believe that the Lord ascended into Heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father, there are no bones to be found and hence, I would be an Orthodox Christian regardless....
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« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2011, 08:53:52 PM »

1 Cor 15:14

I would assume that everyone thought of that verse, but then wondered... how applicable is it? Could such a thing as asked in the OP ever be proved to the satisfaction of someone who truly had faith? I don't know...

I would imagine the DNA of a human conceived parthenogenetically would stand out, but I could be wrong.

So if you believe that Jesus was born of a virgin and no other human was and such DNA evidence were found, it would seem then that at a minimum Jesus did not have full bodily resurrection.

You could go gnostic, I suppose or down some other former heretical route.

But it is a ridiculous question.
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« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2011, 08:58:20 PM »

I would imagine the DNA of a human conceived parthenogenetically would stand out, but I could be wrong.

So if you believe that Jesus was born of a virgin and no other human was and such DNA evidence were found, it would seem then that at a minimum Jesus did not have full bodily resurrection.

You could go gnostic, I suppose or down some other former heretical route.

But it is a ridiculous question.

It's articles like this that make me wonder, especially the following: "When asked what they would do if scientists were to disprove a particular religious belief, nearly two-thirds (64%) of people say they would continue to hold to what their religion teaches rather than accept the contrary scientific finding, according to the results of an October 2006 Time magazine poll." What exactly that means can be debated, of course...
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« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2011, 09:11:46 PM »

I would imagine the DNA of a human conceived parthenogenetically would stand out, but I could be wrong.

So if you believe that Jesus was born of a virgin and no other human was and such DNA evidence were found, it would seem then that at a minimum Jesus did not have full bodily resurrection.

You could go gnostic, I suppose or down some other former heretical route.

But it is a ridiculous question.

It's articles like this that make me wonder, especially the following: "When asked what they would do if scientists were to disprove a particular religious belief, nearly two-thirds (64%) of people say they would continue to hold to what their religion teaches rather than accept the contrary scientific finding, according to the results of an October 2006 Time magazine poll." What exactly that means can be debated, of course...

Depends on the belief. If the belief is one which can be a subject of scientific inquiry then I do think it is foolish to stand on former scientific thought, but most if not all dogma as I understand it could never be a subject of scientific inquiry.



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« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2011, 09:28:45 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
If we managed to find his bones, and we could somehow prove those were Jesus' bones. Would you stop being a Christian?

I would say yes.

Do you only believe in Our Lord and Savior because of books and the faith of other people, have you no personal relationship with Him yourself? If you truly knew Him rather than knew of Him, then surely you would laugh at any such suggestion.  Further, ontologically speaking, human beings can't prove anything about anything, all matters of science, religion, and reality are really matters of faith, belief, and assumption.  However, with God through Jesus Christ, we have something more than faith or belief or assumptions, we can actually know our Lord if we pray to Him through our faith, our belief, our hope.

Science could never prove or disprove anything to discredit my relationship with Our Lord they would have to somehow convince me that my entire reality was like the Matrix and that nothing I knew existed, but wait, I really once had an actual vision one day where I fell into a horrifying despair, and it was an Apocalypse, and my entire perception of reality collapsed and I feared I was dying right there, and then I cried out like Peter "Jesus, Lord save me!" and suddenly all was well, and He consoled me directly and personally as He did Paul when he fell off that horse Wink

stay blessed,
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« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2011, 09:44:34 PM »

You're not getting it. If it was proven factually without a shadow of a doubt, what would you do? Still be a Christian?

You might as well ask what if Jesus was never born.  There are history fora where people beat that topic senseless.

Because I (and others here) believe that the Lord ascended into Heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father, there are no bones to be found and hence, I would be an Orthodox Christian regardless....

This is not the question, again let me repeat myself. If we have 100% of his bones, we could prove it scienitifcally, whatever, (this is a hypothetical question) would you still be a Christian?
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« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2011, 09:50:55 PM »

You're not getting it. If it was proven factually without a shadow of a doubt, what would you do? Still be a Christian?

You might as well ask what if Jesus was never born.  There are history fora where people beat that topic senseless.

Because I (and others here) believe that the Lord ascended into Heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father, there are no bones to be found and hence, I would be an Orthodox Christian regardless....

This is not the question, again let me repeat myself. If we have 100% of his bones, we could prove it scienitifcally, whatever, (this is a hypothetical question) would you still be a Christian?
How would this be proven?
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« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2011, 10:00:42 PM »

You're not getting it. If it was proven factually without a shadow of a doubt, what would you do? Still be a Christian?

You might as well ask what if Jesus was never born.  There are history fora where people beat that topic senseless.

Because I (and others here) believe that the Lord ascended into Heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father, there are no bones to be found and hence, I would be an Orthodox Christian regardless....

This is not the question, again let me repeat myself. If we have 100% of his bones, we could prove it scienitifcally, whatever, (this is a hypothetical question) would you still be a Christian?
How would this be proven?
I'm saying if it could be. Would you still be a Christian?
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« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2011, 10:01:10 PM »

It's funny that you ask this. I've been predicting for years that they will "discover" Jesus's bones one day. It won't make any difference to me. I will never believe it. But unfortunately there are plenty of gullible Christians who believe anything the scientific community tells them. If they believe that evolution is a fact, then they will no doubt believe it when science supposedly "proves" that the bones of Jesus have been discovered.


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« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2011, 10:14:38 PM »

You're not getting it. If it was proven factually without a shadow of a doubt, what would you do? Still be a Christian?

You might as well ask what if Jesus was never born.  There are history fora where people beat that topic senseless.

Because I (and others here) believe that the Lord ascended into Heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father, there are no bones to be found and hence, I would be an Orthodox Christian regardless....

This is not the question, again let me repeat myself. If we have 100% of his bones, we could prove it scienitifcally, whatever, (this is a hypothetical question) would you still be a Christian?
How would this be proven?
I'm saying if it could be. Would you still be a Christian?
I can't think of any feasible way to identify a first-century skeleton as specifically that of Jesus Christ. I'm not good with hypotheticals if I can't imagine the circumstances that would put me in such a situation.
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« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2011, 12:22:13 AM »

I think I will be the first to actually answer this post. Why is everyone beating around the bush? Did you miss that it's hypothetical??? I would be most likely pushed toward a more gnostic form of Christianity if Christ's bones were found. Wow, that was easy. Or would you prefer a couple paragraphs that never answer your simple question?
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« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2011, 12:32:51 AM »

I think I will be the first to actually answer this post. Why is everyone beating around the bush? Did you miss that it's hypothetical???

I raise a lot of hypothetical points that are never answered.  Perhaps the OP deserved the same treatment - not answering him.

I would be most likely pushed toward a more gnostic form of Christianity if Christ's bones were found. Wow, that was easy. Or would you prefer a couple paragraphs that never answer your simple question?

Would the OP advocate performing a DNA test on the supposed bones of Christ like we are CSI: Holy Land or some ** like that?   Huh
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« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2011, 12:34:25 AM »

I think I will be the first to actually answer this post. Why is everyone beating around the bush? Did you miss that it's hypothetical??? I would be most likely pushed toward a more gnostic form of Christianity if Christ's bones were found. Wow, that was easy. Or would you prefer a couple paragraphs that never answer your simple question?

I already suggested your answer . . . did you read the thread?
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« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2011, 12:38:55 AM »

I think I will be the first to actually answer this post. Why is everyone beating around the bush? Did you miss that it's hypothetical???

I raise a lot of hypothetical points that are never answered.  Perhaps the OP deserved the same treatment - not answering him.

I would be most likely pushed toward a more gnostic form of Christianity if Christ's bones were found. Wow, that was easy. Or would you prefer a couple paragraphs that never answer your simple question?

Would the OP advocate performing a DNA test on the supposed bones of Christ like we are CSI: Holy Land or some ** like that?   Huh

You've really been quite curmudgeonly the last few days...  police
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« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2011, 12:56:33 AM »

I'm saying if it could be. Would you still be a Christian?

Either way, I'm not really getting the impression I would want to hang out with you.
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« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2011, 01:24:04 AM »

I'm saying if it could be. Would you still be a Christian?

Either way, I'm not really getting the impression I would want to hang out with you.
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« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2011, 02:01:09 AM »

You've really been quite curmudgeonly the last few days...  police

Must be my old age.   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2011, 02:53:28 AM »

To me. this is about as pointless as reading Shelby Spong.
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« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2011, 03:01:05 AM »

RIKER: Who would want a Vulcan ship?
OMAG: Hypothetically speaking?
RIKER: Hypothetically speaking.
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« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2011, 08:47:00 AM »

1 Cor 15:14

I would assume that everyone thought of that verse, but then wondered... how applicable is it? Could such a thing as asked in the OP ever be proved to the satisfaction of someone who truly had faith? I don't know...

I would imagine the DNA of a human conceived parthenogenetically would stand out, but I could be wrong.

So if you believe that Jesus was born of a virgin and no other human was and such DNA evidence were found, it would seem then that at a minimum Jesus did not have full bodily resurrection.

You could go gnostic, I suppose or down some other former heretical route.

But it is a ridiculous question.


Now they're going to get some scientist to manufacture just that very "DNA evidence"... way to go...

I won't buy it when they do.

I'll be a Christian 'til they cut off my head (as their 'Noahide Laws' {U.S. Public Law # 102-14, H.J. Res 104
102nd Congress of the United States of America} proscribe for people like me).

I ain't going Gnostic...

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« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2011, 05:10:26 PM »

A hypothetical question can still be blasphemous.
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« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2011, 06:40:19 PM »

A hypothetical question can still be blasphemous.

Thanks, I couldn't quite put my fingers on what really bothered me about the question, but that is it.
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« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2011, 12:23:36 AM »

Hello,

I am an inquirer into the Orthodox faith and am speaking from my own Latin rite background.  To me the question posed in the OP speaks to science, the New and Improved religion of our times and not to FAITH.

If I am a true believer in the FAITH then nothing that man can "discover" can really change that.  Jesus said that we should come to him as children.  I think the Orthodox faith echos that in its call to live the faith in the heart and not the "intellect".  Most of our shared faith is a MYSTERY.  That's why we call it a faith.

Because of the nature of God, we can never understand. We understand VERY little of God, of the trinity, of grace, of our own souls.  These are NOT things of science, but of FAITH.  Just because a man decides that HE has found out the truth of these mysteries means nothing to me. Science is NOT the end all last word on everything.  Look at how many times science has had to change to fit new observations.  Look at the silliness of "quantum" theory where man tries to explain why his theories don't work by introducing "randomness" that cannot be predicted into everything.  Clearly science is NOT always right.  Frankly, speaking as one trained in Biochemistry and archaeology, finding bones that could be "proved" to belong to Jesus is factually impossible scientifically. I know it was a rhetorical question, but some common sense grounding is needed.

If science "proved" that Jesus was not God, and I were to loose my faith based on that intellectual arrogance, then I never believed in the first place.  I do in my own modest way affirm that I DO BELIEVE , so that "scientific revelation" would not change my belief system at all. That is my take on the question.

As I have often profferred to those atheist trolls found on the Catholic board (where I have been ushered away from), if you believe MY faith is delusional then it is my delusion, and I am happy with it.  Why do you try so hard to disprove my delusion, if it isn't the case that you are just afraid in the back of your mind that I may just be right!.

Regards,
William Unland
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« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2011, 09:00:57 AM »

Finding the "bones" of Jesus wouldn't be problematic. If God could multiply loaves of fishes, then God could multiply the bones of Jesus. [I'll leave the implications of finding multiple (i.e., more than one) specimens of a bone-type (e.g., femur) as an exercise for the reader.] In fact, perhaps the finding of these "bones" would settle one common question asked by the curious: did Jesus exist? Once that question is settled, then you're one step closer to Truth. Smiley
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« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2011, 01:12:01 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
It's funny that you ask this. I've been predicting for years that they will "discover" Jesus's bones one day. It won't make any difference to me. I will never believe it. But unfortunately there are plenty of gullible Christians who believe anything the scientific community tells them. If they believe that evolution is a fact, then they will no doubt believe it when science supposedly "proves" that the bones of Jesus have been discovered.


Selam

Interestingly, this exact same debate has arisen within Rastafari regarding the supposed bones of His Majesty which were interned in 2001.  Personally, I doubt the authenticity of these HIM bones but it is fundamental for the funeral and EOTC death certificate for the legitimate continuation of the Solomonic Dynasty, which God promised would survive the Earth for eternity.  Again, I could care less what science says, I know Jesus Christ personally, and He never  mentioned any carelessly placed bones before?

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2011, 02:21:45 AM »

If we managed to find his bones, and we could somehow prove those were Jesus' bones. Would you stop being a Christian?

I would say yes.

I would not believe it because the devil the spirit of the antichrist are the deceivers and corrupters of the world.

This is that spirit of antichrist which makes man not believe in the mysteries of God.
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.(1 John 4:3)

These are seducing spirits which cause man to not believe.

I've been attacked by this spirit recently. The demons are sly and manipulating, they will operate even when we have no idea that they are manipulating us.
St Diodochos says about the "spirit of error".

"From all this we can distinguish between the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error. It is  impossible, however, for someone consciously to taste the divine goodness or consciously to
realize when he is experiencing the bitterness of the demons, unless he first knows with assurance that grace dwells in the depths of his intellect, while the wicked spirits cluster round only the outside of the heart. This is just what the demons do not want us to know, for fear that our intellect, once definitely aware of it, will arm itself against them with the remembrance of God."


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« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2011, 01:18:36 PM »

I suppose the roundabout answer to your question is that if I was not a Christian I would be an Orthodox Jew, and if not a follower of an Abrahamic faith, a Buddhist.

But -- as it is -- I believe Christ ascended to Heaven, so I would just assume that science was wrong if someone presented me with the hypothetical evidence.
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« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2011, 02:28:27 PM »

A hypothetical question can still be blasphemous.

Then, I would think that CS Lewis and Saint Paul were both being blasphemers. For example, Saint Paul in the earliest NT book written, 1 Corinthians 15 said:

"12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14  And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15  Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable."

As for Cs Lewis, I believe he said that the Gospel (especially the resurrection) was either totally true or totally ridiculous. So, the answer to the question is for me "no." But, what in the world would possess anyone to ask such a question? It is truly no more than a parlor game but, given the subject matter, it should not be. Or am I making too much of this?
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