Author Topic: Did God Have To Make The Universe?  (Read 4133 times)

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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Did God Have To Make The Universe?
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2011, 06:19:22 PM »
No, He was under no compulsion to create.  If He were, it would empty Him of any Will and Person, and reduce Him to the force of monism.

What if being love then God's Will and Person would create everything possible? This I don't think would be compulsion but the act of the Person of God through His Son and Spirit according to His Person.

Do you believe God, to put it a sharp point on it, thought about creating or nor creating and then made a decision based on some sorta criteria?

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Offline That person

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Re: Did God Have To Make The Universe?
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2011, 09:14:41 PM »
God can create a rock he cannot lift, and can lift the same rock.
He cannot create a rock that He cannot lift.

Then you are saying that He is not omnipotent, which is a heresy, as you are saying that there is one thing He cannot do:  create a rock that He cannot lift.   He has the power to give, and the power to take away.   "With God, nothing is impossible" and "with God, all things are possible."  
"Nonsense remains nonsense, even when we talk it about God."-C.S. Lewis on the omnipotence paradox
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Offline Antonis

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Re: Did God Have To Make The Universe?
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2011, 09:56:10 PM »
::)
So God cannot do everything? He is not omnipotent?
Quote
"Nonsense remains nonsense, even when we talk it about God."-C.S. Lewis on the omnipotence paradox
So God obeys our rules of logic and "nonsense", something He created?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 09:57:34 PM by Antonis »
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Did God Have To Make The Universe?
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2011, 10:27:56 PM »
I believe that aspect of the apparent contradiction must be pointed explicitly for the very fact the God typically is depicted as a living and a  "changing" God.

Living, yes. But that does not necessarily imply changing. And I have seen nothing Traditional that has implied that God is changing. Unless you are meaning something very obscure by "changing" which I am not understanding.
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Did God Have To Make The Universe?
« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2011, 10:30:49 PM »
"Nonsense remains nonsense, even when we talk it about God."-C.S. Lewis on the omnipotence paradox

Exactly!
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Did God Have To Make The Universe?
« Reply #50 on: February 08, 2011, 10:32:19 PM »
So God cannot do everything? He is not omnipotent?

No, God can't do anything nonsensical. He can do anything real that actually respects His nature.
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Did God Have To Make The Universe?
« Reply #51 on: February 08, 2011, 10:33:38 PM »
So God obeys our rules of logic and "nonsense", something He created?

This isn't a matter of rules. This is a matter of God not being able to contradict truths concerning Himself.
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Offline Antonis

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Re: Did God Have To Make The Universe?
« Reply #52 on: February 09, 2011, 07:42:39 PM »
So God cannot do everything? He is not omnipotent?

No, God can't do anything nonsensical. He can do anything real that actually respects His nature.
Is He a slave to His nature? Below it?
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Did God Have To Make The Universe?
« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2011, 12:19:27 AM »
The discussion with Papist regarding the changing/changeless nature of God has been moved to Orthodox-Catholic Discussion.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=33668.0


Papist, even though you broached the subject in a very respectful manner that I appreciate, please do remember that Faith Issues is not the place for dialogue between Orthodox and Catholics. If you wish to question something we believe, please do so only on the Orthodox-Catholic board. Thank you.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 12:24:06 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Did God Have To Make The Universe?
« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2011, 12:23:29 AM »
So God cannot do everything? He is not omnipotent?

No, God can't do anything nonsensical. He can do anything real that actually respects His nature.
Is He a slave to His nature? Below it?

He is identified with His nature and subsists in it like other beings.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 12:23:52 AM by deusveritasest »
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Offline Antonis

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Re: Did God Have To Make The Universe?
« Reply #55 on: February 10, 2011, 01:06:39 AM »
But He cannot breach it? In essence, there are things God cannot do?
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Did God Have To Make The Universe?
« Reply #56 on: February 10, 2011, 04:12:09 AM »
In essence, there are things God cannot do?

Yes, I've already said this, God cannot nonsensically defy who He is.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 04:12:59 AM by deusveritasest »
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Did God Have To Make The Universe?
« Reply #57 on: February 10, 2011, 05:38:15 AM »
Well He did make it so there is much reason to celebrate, right right?

« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 05:38:40 AM by Aposphet »
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Offline Father H

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Re: Did God Have To Make The Universe?
« Reply #58 on: February 10, 2011, 09:15:15 PM »
In essence, there are things God cannot do?

Yes, I've already said this, God cannot nonsensically defy who He is.

I disagree.   God by His own will does not nonsensically defy who He is.  That does not mean that He can not do so.   

Offline Antonis

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Re: Did God Have To Make The Universe?
« Reply #59 on: February 10, 2011, 10:32:33 PM »
In essence, there are things God cannot do?

Yes, I've already said this, God cannot nonsensically defy who He is.

I disagree.   God by His own will does not nonsensically defy who He is.  That does not mean that He can not do so.   
I agree, considering there is nothing that God can't do. However, there are a lot of things God won't do.
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Did God Have To Make The Universe?
« Reply #60 on: February 11, 2011, 12:12:36 AM »
In essence, there are things God cannot do?

Yes, I've already said this, God cannot nonsensically defy who He is.

I disagree.   God by His own will does not nonsensically defy who He is.  That does not mean that He can not do so.   

I'm aware that this is what you and Antonis believe. That much should have already been clear.
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