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Author Topic: bizarre teachings about the Mother of God  (Read 28996 times) Average Rating: 0
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #90 on: February 02, 2011, 03:06:50 AM »

This thread, in summary:

"Vassula Ryden, a would-be prophetess, has been rejected by both the Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Churches.

Therefore, the Roman Catholic Church is the spawn of Satan."

Smiley

Now you're catching on!  Tongue
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« Reply #91 on: February 02, 2011, 03:07:32 AM »

This thread, in summary:

"Vassula Ryden, a would-be prophetess, has been rejected by both the Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Churches.

Therefore, the Roman Catholic Church is the spawn of Satan."

Smiley

Spawn? I see it more as a "co"-operative effort. Not quite equal to Satan, but having a special role in the fall of all that is good. Now you might ask what that "special" role is, well . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ad infinitum.
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« Reply #92 on: February 02, 2011, 03:20:10 AM »

This thread, in summary:

"Vassula Ryden, a would-be prophetess, has been rejected by both the Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Churches.

Therefore, the Roman Catholic Church is the spawn of Satan."

Smiley

Spawn? I see it more as a "co"-operative effort. Not quite equal to Satan, but having a special role in the fall of all that is good. Now you might ask what that "special" role is, well . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ad infinitum.

Yes, this is true. There is no such thing as a "spawn of satan". That was a heresy invented by the RCC during the dark ages...and ironically enough, used to apply towards the EOC Wink
« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 03:23:12 AM by Ortho_cat » Logged
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« Reply #93 on: February 02, 2011, 06:38:22 AM »

This thread, in summary:

"Vassula Ryden, a would-be prophetess, has been rejected by both the Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Churches.

Therefore, the Roman Catholic Church is the spawn of Satan."

Smiley

Another way of looking at it is that Vassoula Ryden is simply picking up on popularist movements in the Roman Catholic Church (the "Fifth Marian Dogma" movement which will lead to the "Triumph of the Immaculate Heart" etc.) The existence of these popularist movements are not new and similar popularist movements lead to two Popes "Consecrating Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary".
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« Reply #94 on: February 02, 2011, 08:07:33 AM »

Let us pray the Holy words of the Apostle St. Thaddeus whom Christ instructed to resolve this issue of incorrect teachings on the Virgin Mary :

For the  memorial of the blessed St. Mary, the holy Virgin, the mother of Christ our  Savior and Life-giver, let us pray . . . - That the Holy  Spirit who dwelt in her may sanctify us in his loving-kindness, perfect in us  his will, and seal in us his truth all the days of our life
-Liturgy of Mar Addai and Mar Mari (oldest conitinuing Liturgy in existence)

God willing we can find the perfect balance to honor the Blessed Virgin Mary without compromising our faith...
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« Reply #95 on: February 02, 2011, 10:41:57 AM »

There is a growing movement of people in the Catholic Church who believe that the Virgin Mary must be proclaimed as "Co-Redeemer" and "Co-Mediator", and that this is the "fifth and final Marian Dogma", and once the Pope proclaims it, everything will be just peachy keen in the world:
http://www.frtommylane.com/fifthmariandogma.htm

"Advocate: As Advocate our petitions flow back to the Trinity through Mary. She is our human connection to the Trinity."

I thought Christ's human nature was our human connection to the Trinity?
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« Reply #96 on: February 02, 2011, 10:47:35 AM »

This thread, in summary:

"Vassula Ryden, a would-be prophetess, has been rejected by both the Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Churches.

Therefore, the Roman Catholic Church is the spawn of Satan."

Smiley

Another way of looking at it is that Vassoula Ryden is simply picking up on popularist movements in the Roman Catholic Church (the "Fifth Marian Dogma" movement which will lead to the "Triumph of the Immaculate Heart" etc.) The existence of these popularist movements are not new and similar popularist movements lead to two Popes "Consecrating Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary".

I would call them popular cults, rather than movements but that may just be semantics. Just as within our own house, certain well-intentioned, but ultimately incorrect beliefs may be popularized and even seem from the outside to be overwhelming, but I suspect that in the end, such practices don't really amount to much.
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« Reply #97 on: February 02, 2011, 10:51:46 AM »

God willing we can find the perfect balance to honor the Blessed Virgin Mary without compromising our faith...

That balance was achieved by St. Cyril and the Council of Ephesus.
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« Reply #98 on: February 02, 2011, 11:18:36 AM »

God willing we can find the perfect balance to honor the Blessed Virgin Mary without compromising our faith...

That balance was achieved by St. Cyril and the Council of Ephesus.

Can you refresh me what the outcome of that was?
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« Reply #99 on: February 02, 2011, 01:00:22 PM »

This thread, in summary:

"Vassula Ryden, a would-be prophetess, has been rejected by both the Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Churches.

Therefore, the Roman Catholic Church is the spawn of Satan."

Smiley

Another way of looking at it is that Vassoula Ryden is simply picking up on popularist movements in the Roman Catholic Church (the "Fifth Marian Dogma" movement which will lead to the "Triumph of the Immaculate Heart" etc.) The existence of these popularist movements are not new and similar popularist movements lead to two Popes "Consecrating Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary".

I would call them popular cults, rather than movements but that may just be semantics. Just as within our own house, certain well-intentioned, but ultimately incorrect beliefs may be popularized and even seem from the outside to be overwhelming, but I suspect that in the end, such practices don't really amount to much.
Cults they may well be, however the Fatima "cult" managed to cause the leader of the RC Church to act in accordance with it's wishes (by "consecrating" Russia to the "Immaculate Heart"). This constitutes a movement.
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« Reply #100 on: February 02, 2011, 03:53:35 PM »

I've never really understood why asking the Theotokos to especially bless a nation about to undergo a violent revolution is so objectionable, but that's probably just me.

(Question: would you have any problem consecrating Egypt to the protection of the Theotokos? Or would that be offensive because some Egyptians are Orthodox?)
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« Reply #101 on: February 02, 2011, 04:09:35 PM »

I've never really understood why asking the Theotokos to especially bless a nation about to undergo a violent revolution is so objectionable, but that's probably just me.

(Question: would you have any problem consecrating Egypt to the protection of the Theotokos? Or would that be offensive because some Egyptians are Orthodox?)
Russia wasn't the Vatican's to consecrate to anything, let alone the "Immaculate Heart," a cult which strikes the Orthodox as bizarre itself, let alone being mixed with the heresy of the IC.

Then there is the stated goal:
Quote
"I shall come to ask for the Consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart...If people attend to My requests, Russia will be converted and the world will have peace."...In response to Sister Lucy's question why He would not convert Russia without the Holy Father consecrating that nation to His Mother's Immaculate Heart, Our Lord replied "Because I want My whole Church to acknowledge that consecration as a triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary so that it may extend its cult later and put the devotion of the Immaculate Heart beside the devotion to My Sacred Heart."
Russia was converted over a thousand years ago.  It doesn't need to apostacize to the cult of the Immaculate Heart and all that that entails.

As for Egypt, the Lord has already claimed her "Blessed be Egypt My people"
« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 04:11:05 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #102 on: February 02, 2011, 04:20:35 PM »

OK, then I apologize for all the times I prayed that the Russian people would be saved from the evils of Communism. Obviously I had no right whatsoever to do that.  Only the Orthodox may pray for the countries in which they reside. I get it now.
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« Reply #103 on: February 02, 2011, 04:27:57 PM »

OK, then I apologize for all the times I prayed that the Russian people would be saved from the evils of Communism. Obviously I had no right whatsoever to do that.  Only the Orthodox may pray for the countries in which they reside. I get it now.

Orthodox prayer is complex. For instance, even prayer books printed more than a decade after the fall of communism still have prayers for the "suffering Russian people". I guess God can retroactively apply the prayers or something. It's best to just not ask, IMO  Grin
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« Reply #104 on: February 02, 2011, 04:35:41 PM »

OK, then I apologize for all the times I prayed that the Russian people would be saved from the evils of Communism. Obviously I had no right whatsoever to do that.  Only the Orthodox may pray for the countries in which they reside. I get it now.
There is no evidence that Fatima was about the evils of communism, but the "evils" of Orthodoxy.
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« Reply #105 on: February 02, 2011, 05:25:21 PM »

OK, then I apologize for all the times I prayed that the Russian people would be saved from the evils of Communism. Obviously I had no right whatsoever to do that.  Only the Orthodox may pray for the countries in which they reside. I get it now.
There is no evidence that Fatima was about the evils of communism, but the "evils" of Orthodoxy.

You can't really reach a contrary conclusion if you read this http://www.fatima.org/essentials/facts/consecra.asp. From that you can see why Orthodox are offended at least.
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« Reply #106 on: February 02, 2011, 05:29:02 PM »

OK, then I apologize for all the times I prayed that the Russian people would be saved from the evils of Communism. Obviously I had no right whatsoever to do that.  Only the Orthodox may pray for the countries in which they reside. I get it now.
There is no evidence that Fatima was about the evils of communism, but the "evils" of Orthodoxy.
That's funny, considering that almost all Catholics I know thought that Fatima was about overcoming the evils of communism.
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« Reply #107 on: February 02, 2011, 06:27:09 PM »

I want to deal with some strange information regarding Vassula. First of all I am a Catholic priest (for 35 years). There are NO unorthodox (as far as Catholics are concerned) teachings about the Virgin Mary in Vassula's writings. I have known Vassula for 10 years and I have read her writings. The Notification issued by the Vatican (which has the status of a warning and nothing else) makes NO MENTION of any such "teachings". The Catholic who posted those strange things about Our Lady is badly mistaken and seemingly very badly instructed. Co-Redemptorix DOES NOT MEAN Our Lady is on the same level as Christ - how could it? Nor do we teach (either the RC Church or Vassula) that we are saved by Mary's blood. That is sheer heresy. There was a heresy like this at one time - I think it came from France and it involved the Eucharist. It was condemned. It is, in any case, incorrect - medically or scientifically speaking - to simply identify the blood of a child with his or her parents, except perhaps by rare blood type. Anyone who knows anything at all about the human body will know this. We can say that Jesus received His blood through Mary - or even from her, since she is the only human agent involved in His birth, but this is NOT THE SAME THING as saying it is the same blood! Whoever teaches this nonsense, it is not Vassula nor anyone I know.

I am fed up with all the nonsense I see about Vassula - most of it completely wrong if not misrepresentation. For example she has not excommunicated herself. She belongs to the Greek Orthodox Church under the Patriarch of Alexandria and All Africa to whom she has submitted her pofession of faith. She is not "banned" by the Catholic Church. The Notification was answered in dialogue with the Congregation for the Faith and she met Cardinal Ratzinger before he became Pope - and he knew about her answers and approved of them. Please stop all this nonsense and get your facts straight.

Fr. John Abberton (blog: yorkshireshepherd.blogspot.com)
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« Reply #108 on: February 02, 2011, 06:42:57 PM »

It's ironic that even though Vassula Ryden is a former Greek Orthodox, her bizarre beliefs are being used in this thread as yet another stick to beat the Roman Catholics with.

Not to beat Roman Catholics, but that church received her. Now, it may be difficult to depose crazy Roman Catholic bishops once they're in power, but one has to wonder about receiving weirdos. Not that we don't, but one has to wonder what some people were thinking. I do all the time when I read of crazy so-called "Orthodox" people.
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« Reply #109 on: February 02, 2011, 06:54:53 PM »

I want to deal with some strange information regarding Vassula. First of all I am a Catholic priest (for 35 years). There are NO unorthodox (as far as Catholics are concerned) teachings about the Virgin Mary in Vassula's writings. I have known Vassula for 10 years and I have read her writings. The Notification issued by the Vatican (which has the status of a warning and nothing else) makes NO MENTION of any such "teachings". The Catholic who posted those strange things about Our Lady is badly mistaken and seemingly very badly instructed. Co-Redemptorix DOES NOT MEAN Our Lady is on the same level as Christ - how could it? Nor do we teach (either the RC Church or Vassula) that we are saved by Mary's blood. That is sheer heresy. There was a heresy like this at one time - I think it came from France and it involved the Eucharist. It was condemned. It is, in any case, incorrect - medically or scientifically speaking - to simply identify the blood of a child with his or her parents, except perhaps by rare blood type. Anyone who knows anything at all about the human body will know this. We can say that Jesus received His blood through Mary - or even from her, since she is the only human agent involved in His birth, but this is NOT THE SAME THING as saying it is the same blood! Whoever teaches this nonsense, it is not Vassula nor anyone I know.

I am fed up with all the nonsense I see about Vassula - most of it completely wrong if not misrepresentation. For example she has not excommunicated herself. She belongs to the Greek Orthodox Church under the Patriarch of Alexandria and All Africa to whom she has submitted her pofession of faith. She is not "banned" by the Catholic Church. The Notification was answered in dialogue with the Congregation for the Faith and she met Cardinal Ratzinger before he became Pope - and he knew about her answers and approved of them. Please stop all this nonsense and get your facts straight.

Fr. John Abberton (blog: yorkshireshepherd.blogspot.com)

If she belongs to the Pope of Alexandria, why is she submitting her answers for approval to the Pope in the Vatican?
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« Reply #110 on: February 02, 2011, 06:59:18 PM »

Vassula has many Catholics reading her writings. She has been attacked by some Catholics as she has been attacked by some Orthodox. Why? She is not saying anything wrong. However, because of this she has tried to answer objections from both Catholic and Orthodox. Since her writings are especially about Unity it makes sense to try to dialogue with Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants. Some of your questions will be answered by simply reading her writings.
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« Reply #111 on: February 02, 2011, 07:14:59 PM »

OK, then I apologize for all the times I prayed that the Russian people would be saved from the evils of Communism. Obviously I had no right whatsoever to do that.  Only the Orthodox may pray for the countries in which they reside. I get it now.
There is no evidence that Fatima was about the evils of communism, but the "evils" of Orthodoxy.

You can't really reach a contrary conclusion if you read this http://www.fatima.org/essentials/facts/consecra.asp. From that you can see why Orthodox are offended at least.
You can even sign an online petition to Pope Benedict via secure website that he does the job "right" this time and "consecrate" Russia to the Immaculate Circulatory System Organ so that Russia really converts....from Communism is it theistgirl/Papist?
https://secure.fatima.org/forms/petition.asp
« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 07:16:49 PM by ozgeorge » Logged

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« Reply #112 on: February 02, 2011, 07:16:08 PM »

Vassula has many Catholics reading her writings. She has been attacked by some Catholics as she has been attacked by some Orthodox. Why? She is not saying anything wrong. However, because of this she has tried to answer objections from both Catholic and Orthodox. Since her writings are especially about Unity it makes sense to try to dialogue with Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants. Some of your questions will be answered by simply reading her writings.
Quote
Orthodox! Catholics! Protestants! You all belong to Me! You are all One in My Eyes! I do not make any distinction...

My Vassula draw three iron bars with a head on the top
 

these represent the Roman Catholics, the Orthodox and the Protestants, I want them to bend and unite but these iron bars are still very stiff and cannot bend on their own, so I shall have to come to them with My Fire and with the power of My Flame upon them they shall turn soft to bend and mould into one solid iron bar, and My Glory will fill the whole earth  

Message of October 27, 1987
http://www.tlig.org/en/churchunity/
She has her nails, we have our pillars

who do not bend, despite the hellfire of whoever is speaking to Vassula, because it can't distinguish between the Body of Christ and Double Headed, dismembered body of ultramontanism and Protestantism, it can't be the Lord's  voice she is harkening to.

Quote
Moreover, by habitually sharing in the sacraments of the Catholic Church even though she is Greek Orthodox, Mrs. Ryden is causing considerable surprise in various circles of the Catholic Church. She appears to be putting herself above all ecclesiastical jurisdiction and every canonical norm, and in effect, is creating an ecumenical disorder that irritates many authorities, ministers and faithful of her own Church, as she puts herself outside the ecclesiastical discipline of the latter.
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"The Committee, having examined the evidence, has reached the conclusion that Vassula Ryden has expelled herself
  • from the Orthodox Church, although she still presents herself as a member.

In addition it should be known that the Church periodical "Dialogos" in its issues number 14 and 17 (...) has printed extensive reports regarding Vassula Ryden's organization.

Vassula asked the Greek Minister of Justice to bring to trial for slander and libel both the Secretary of the Greek Orthodox Synodal Commission on Heresies, Fr. Kyriakos Tsouros, and the Church publication. The trial was scheduled for 30 June 2000; however Ryden withdrew the charge two days before the hearing." (Dialogos, issue number 25, page 32, 2001.)

  • The Greek text uses the word ekpései, which is of difficult translation. In fact, some websites have translated it as "excommunicated". According to the Orthodox source we consulted, the literal translation of the text would be: "she threw herself out of the Orthodox Church". Another source suggested: "Vassula Ryden is cut off from the Orthodox Church". The Committee is therefore stating that Mrs Ryden excommunicated herself from her Church. From what we have been able to gather, the main reason is that she does not act as an Orthodox faithful since she does not respect canonical discipline, for instance by regularly receiving Catholic Sacraments, which is considered a form of resigning from the Orthodox Church (see also: "May Vassula Ryden receive Holy Communion when participating in Catholic Masses?"). [/size]
http://www.infovassula.ch/tliggreekorthodox.htm
« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 07:36:16 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #113 on: February 02, 2011, 07:43:12 PM »

OK, then I apologize for all the times I prayed that the Russian people would be saved from the evils of Communism. Obviously I had no right whatsoever to do that.  Only the Orthodox may pray for the countries in which they reside. I get it now.
There is no evidence that Fatima was about the evils of communism, but the "evils" of Orthodoxy.

You can't really reach a contrary conclusion if you read this http://www.fatima.org/essentials/facts/consecra.asp. From that you can see why Orthodox are offended at least.

This is a private site about a private vision.  If you want to be offended...go right on.  Personally I'd ignore it rather than taking offense at it.  But even at that there's no indication that it is meant to be contra-Orthodoxy.
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« Reply #114 on: February 02, 2011, 08:00:53 PM »

OK, then I apologize for all the times I prayed that the Russian people would be saved from the evils of Communism. Obviously I had no right whatsoever to do that.  Only the Orthodox may pray for the countries in which they reside. I get it now.
There is no evidence that Fatima was about the evils of communism, but the "evils" of Orthodoxy.

You can't really reach a contrary conclusion if you read this http://www.fatima.org/essentials/facts/consecra.asp. From that you can see why Orthodox are offended at least.

This is a private site about a private vision.
Yeah, try to deny Fatima at any gathering of Vatican supporters, and see how far you get.  Ditto Lourdes, which forms part of the basis for Maximillian Kolbe's heretical Mariolatry.

Quote
Personally I'd ignore it rather than taking offense at it.
But then it's not your ox being gored now, is it?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 08:02:04 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #115 on: February 02, 2011, 08:15:10 PM »

OK, then I apologize for all the times I prayed that the Russian people would be saved from the evils of Communism. Obviously I had no right whatsoever to do that.  Only the Orthodox may pray for the countries in which they reside. I get it now.
There is no evidence that Fatima was about the evils of communism, but the "evils" of Orthodoxy.

You can't really reach a contrary conclusion if you read this http://www.fatima.org/essentials/facts/consecra.asp. From that you can see why Orthodox are offended at least.

This is a private site about a private vision.  If you want to be offended...go right on.  Personally I'd ignore it rather than taking offense at it.  But even at that there's no indication that it is meant to be contra-Orthodoxy.

1) If it was only a "private revelation", why did two Popes obey it's commands and "consecrate Russia to the "Immaculate Heart". Should Popes be making public acts based on private revelation as though they were a kind of Delphic Oracle?

2) If it's not "contra-Orthodoxy" then why do the followers of the Fatima cult still want to "Convert Russia"? convert it from what?
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« Reply #116 on: February 02, 2011, 08:20:21 PM »

All I know about "Fatima" is that it was not an infrequent subject on "Coast to Coast".

That sums it up for me.
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« Reply #117 on: February 02, 2011, 08:33:29 PM »

Welcome to the forum, vianney.
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« Reply #118 on: February 02, 2011, 08:42:56 PM »

OK, then I apologize for all the times I prayed that the Russian people would be saved from the evils of Communism. Obviously I had no right whatsoever to do that.  Only the Orthodox may pray for the countries in which they reside. I get it now.

Do you pray now that is be saved from the evils of capitalism?
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« Reply #119 on: February 02, 2011, 09:11:21 PM »

Now that I'm starting my own small business (just filed my DBA today yay! Smiley ), I'm not too worried about the evils of capitalism. Smiley
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« Reply #120 on: February 02, 2011, 09:27:16 PM »

The Notification was answered in dialogue with the Congregation for the Faith and she met Cardinal Ratzinger before he became Pope - and he knew about her answers and approved of them.

Welcome Father.   Smiley

I know that Vassula and her followers said that the Vatican changed its position due to the dialogue, but it is my understanding that it did not change its position:


Quote
CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

January 25, 2007

Prot. N.: 54/92 – 24945

 

Your Eminence / Your Excellency,

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith continues to receive requests for clarification in relation to the writings and activities of Mrs Vassula Rydén. These requests address in particular the import of the Notification of 6 October 1995, and the criteria to be considered by the local Church in judging whether the writings of Mrs Vassula Ryden may appropriately be disseminated.

In this regard, the Congregation wishes to state de following:

1)      The Notification of 1995 remains valid as a doctrinal judgment of the writings examined (see Enclosure 1).

2)      Mrs Vassula Rydén, however, after dialogue with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, has offered clarifications on some problematic points in her writings and on the nature of her messages which are presented not as divine revelations, but rather as her personal meditations (see Enclosure 2: Letter of 4 April 2002, published in True Life in God, vol. 10). From a normative point of view therefore, following the aforementioned clarifications, a case by case prudential judgment is required in view of the real possibility of the faithful being able to read the writings in the light of the said clarifications.

3)      Finally, it remains inappropriate for Catholics to take part in prayer groups established by Mrs Rydén. Concerning the question of ecumenical meetings, the faithful are to follow the norms of the Ecumenical Directory, of the Code of Canon Law (canons: 215; 223 §2 and 383 §3) and of Diocesan Ordinaries.

Thanking you for your attention and with sentiments of esteem, I am

Yours sincerely in Christ,

                                                             

                                                                                                                 
Cardinal William LEVADA

                                                                                                                           Prefect

(2 Enclosures)

To the Cardinals, Archbishops and Bishops Presidents of the Bishops Conferences



http://www.infovassula.ch/tligchurchposition.htm


Also, from the above site:

Quote
In May 2007 Mrs Ryden wrote to the CDF questioning this letter. She received an answer from Msgr Angelo Amato, the number 2 of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, in which he confirmed that Card. Levada's letter "was expressly written with the purpose of informing all the Catholic Bishops of the dialogue" that had taken place in 2002-2004 between Vassula Ryden and the CDF (reported by Mrs. Ryden in an open letter dated August 2007: see Related Topic: Vassula Ryden's Response to Cardinal Levada ). Archbishop Amato was the Secretary of the CDF from December 2002 until July 2008, which includes the period of time during which the dialogue with Mrs. Ryden took place and its outcome. He has recently been appointed Prefect of the Congregation for the Causes of Saints.

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« Reply #121 on: February 02, 2011, 09:37:37 PM »

Now that I'm starting my own small business (just filed my DBA today yay! Smiley ), I'm not too worried about the evils of capitalism. Smiley





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« Reply #122 on: February 02, 2011, 10:08:45 PM »

OK, then I apologize for all the times I prayed that the Russian people would be saved from the evils of Communism. Obviously I had no right whatsoever to do that.  Only the Orthodox may pray for the countries in which they reside. I get it now.
There is no evidence that Fatima was about the evils of communism, but the "evils" of Orthodoxy.

Except the words of Sister Lucia in an interview:

Carlos Evaristo: "But is not the conversion of Russia not interpreted as the conversion of the Russian People to Catholicism?"

Sister Lucia:"Our Lady never said that. There are many misinterpretations around. The fact is that in Russia, the communist, atheist power, prevented the people form carrying out their faith. People now have an individual choice to remain as they are or to convert. This they are now free to do, and many conversions are, in fact, taking place; and that man (Gorbachev) in Russia, unknowingly was an instrument of God in the conversion..." (from Two Hours with Sister Lucia by Carlos Evaristo)

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« Reply #123 on: February 02, 2011, 10:20:43 PM »

OK, then I apologize for all the times I prayed that the Russian people would be saved from the evils of Communism. Obviously I had no right whatsoever to do that.  Only the Orthodox may pray for the countries in which they reside. I get it now.
There is no evidence that Fatima was about the evils of communism, but the "evils" of Orthodoxy.

Except the words of Sister Lucia in an interview:

Carlos Evaristo: "But is not the conversion of Russia not interpreted as the conversion of the Russian People to Catholicism?"

Sister Lucia:"Our Lady never said that. There are many misinterpretations around. The fact is that in Russia, the communist, atheist power, prevented the people form carrying out their faith. People now have an individual choice to remain as they are or to convert. This they are now free to do, and many conversions are, in fact, taking place; and that man (Gorbachev) in Russia, unknowingly was an instrument of God in the conversion..." (from Two Hours with Sister Lucia by Carlos Evaristo)


Someone needs to tell  Father Nicholas Gruner and his followers that: http://www.fatimapriest.com/faq03.html
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« Reply #124 on: February 02, 2011, 10:33:26 PM »

He has been told several times.  His priestly faculties have been suspened and he in no way speaks for the Catholic Church.
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« Reply #125 on: February 02, 2011, 11:12:05 PM »

Worldwide Cardinal-Bishop Petition for the Proclamation of a Marian Dogma

"Five cardinals have invited every cardinal and bishop in the world to join them in petitioning Pope Benedict XVI to solemnly proclaim the Mother of Jesus as the "Spiritual Mother of humanity” as an ecumenical service of clarification to other religious traditions and to proclaim the full Christian truth about Mary..........This definition of Mary as spiritual mother would include her three maternal roles as the human “Co-redemptrix” (which literally means “a woman with the Redeemer” but never on a level of equality with her divine son), “Mediatrix” or distributor of the graces of the redemption, and “Advocate” or principal intercessor to her Jesus Christ. "......more
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« Reply #126 on: February 02, 2011, 11:21:18 PM »

OK, then I apologize for all the times I prayed that the Russian people would be saved from the evils of Communism. Obviously I had no right whatsoever to do that.  Only the Orthodox may pray for the countries in which they reside. I get it now.
There is no evidence that Fatima was about the evils of communism, but the "evils" of Orthodoxy.

Except the words of Sister Lucia in an interview:

Carlos Evaristo: "But is not the conversion of Russia not interpreted as the conversion of the Russian People to Catholicism?"

Sister Lucia:"Our Lady never said that. There are many misinterpretations around. The fact is that in Russia, the communist, atheist power, prevented the people form carrying out their faith. People now have an individual choice to remain as they are or to convert. This they are now free to do, and many conversions are, in fact, taking place; and that man (Gorbachev) in Russia, unknowingly was an instrument of God in the conversion..." (from Two Hours with Sister Lucia by Carlos Evaristo)


Then there wouldn't be any further need of the "consecration of Russia" and prayers for her "conversion," now, would there?
Consistency at Fatima, as elsewhere in these matters, is severely lacking. For further analysis on the conversion to what
http://www.orthodox.org/Fatima.pdf
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« Reply #127 on: February 02, 2011, 11:22:29 PM »

Worldwide Cardinal-Bishop Petition for the Proclamation of a Marian Dogma

"Five cardinals have invited every cardinal and bishop in the world to join them in petitioning Pope Benedict XVI to solemnly proclaim the Mother of Jesus as the "Spiritual Mother of humanity” as an ecumenical service of clarification to other religious traditions and to proclaim the full Christian truth about Mary..........This definition of Mary as spiritual mother would include her three maternal roles as the human “Co-redemptrix” (which literally means “a woman with the Redeemer” but never on a level of equality with her divine son), “Mediatrix” or distributor of the graces of the redemption, and “Advocate” or principal intercessor to her Jesus Christ. "......more
more? That's more than enough.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 11:23:18 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #128 on: February 02, 2011, 11:40:11 PM »

OK, then I apologize for all the times I prayed that the Russian people would be saved from the evils of Communism. Obviously I had no right whatsoever to do that.  Only the Orthodox may pray for the countries in which they reside. I get it now.
There is no evidence that Fatima was about the evils of communism, but the "evils" of Orthodoxy.

Except the words of Sister Lucia in an interview:

Carlos Evaristo: "But is not the conversion of Russia not interpreted as the conversion of the Russian People to Catholicism?"

Sister Lucia:"Our Lady never said that. There are many misinterpretations around. The fact is that in Russia, the communist, atheist power, prevented the people form carrying out their faith. People now have an individual choice to remain as they are or to convert. This they are now free to do, and many conversions are, in fact, taking place; and that man (Gorbachev) in Russia, unknowingly was an instrument of God in the conversion..." (from Two Hours with Sister Lucia by Carlos Evaristo)


Then there wouldn't be any further need of the "consecration of Russia" and prayers for her "conversion," now, would there?
Consistency at Fatima, as elsewhere in these matters, is severely lacking. For further analysis on the conversion to what
http://www.orthodox.org/Fatima.pdf

What are you talking about?  As long as athiestic Communism was in control there was.  And as recently related on another thread Russia is still recovering as less then 10% attend Church on a regular basis.
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« Reply #129 on: February 02, 2011, 11:51:29 PM »

OK, then I apologize for all the times I prayed that the Russian people would be saved from the evils of Communism. Obviously I had no right whatsoever to do that.  Only the Orthodox may pray for the countries in which they reside. I get it now.
There is no evidence that Fatima was about the evils of communism, but the "evils" of Orthodoxy.

Except the words of Sister Lucia in an interview:

Carlos Evaristo: "But is not the conversion of Russia not interpreted as the conversion of the Russian People to Catholicism?"

Sister Lucia:"Our Lady never said that. There are many misinterpretations around. The fact is that in Russia, the communist, atheist power, prevented the people form carrying out their faith. People now have an individual choice to remain as they are or to convert. This they are now free to do, and many conversions are, in fact, taking place; and that man (Gorbachev) in Russia, unknowingly was an instrument of God in the conversion..." (from Two Hours with Sister Lucia by Carlos Evaristo)


Then there wouldn't be any further need of the "consecration of Russia" and prayers for her "conversion," now, would there?
Consistency at Fatima, as elsewhere in these matters, is severely lacking. For further analysis on the conversion to what
http://www.orthodox.org/Fatima.pdf

What are you talking about?  As long as athiestic Communism was in control there was.  And as recently related on another thread Russia is still recovering as less then 10% attend Church on a regular basis.
So the "Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart" has been a failure?
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« Reply #130 on: February 02, 2011, 11:53:33 PM »

It's still ongoing - just as is the conversion of the whole world to Christ. Smiley
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« Reply #131 on: February 02, 2011, 11:55:45 PM »

OK, then I apologize for all the times I prayed that the Russian people would be saved from the evils of Communism. Obviously I had no right whatsoever to do that.  Only the Orthodox may pray for the countries in which they reside. I get it now.
There is no evidence that Fatima was about the evils of communism, but the "evils" of Orthodoxy.

Except the words of Sister Lucia in an interview:

Carlos Evaristo: "But is not the conversion of Russia not interpreted as the conversion of the Russian People to Catholicism?"

Sister Lucia:"Our Lady never said that. There are many misinterpretations around. The fact is that in Russia, the communist, atheist power, prevented the people form carrying out their faith. People now have an individual choice to remain as they are or to convert. This they are now free to do, and many conversions are, in fact, taking place; and that man (Gorbachev) in Russia, unknowingly was an instrument of God in the conversion..." (from Two Hours with Sister Lucia by Carlos Evaristo)


Then there wouldn't be any further need of the "consecration of Russia" and prayers for her "conversion," now, would there?
Consistency at Fatima, as elsewhere in these matters, is severely lacking. For further analysis on the conversion to what
http://www.orthodox.org/Fatima.pdf

What are you talking about?  As long as athiestic Communism was in control there was.  And as recently related on another thread Russia is still recovering as less then 10% attend Church on a regular basis.
Is Rome doing so much better?

So, the conversion of Russia is still awaited, although as Sister Lucia stated, Russia is free?  Converted to what then?
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« Reply #132 on: February 02, 2011, 11:57:13 PM »

OK, then I apologize for all the times I prayed that the Russian people would be saved from the evils of Communism. Obviously I had no right whatsoever to do that.  Only the Orthodox may pray for the countries in which they reside. I get it now.
There is no evidence that Fatima was about the evils of communism, but the "evils" of Orthodoxy.

Except the words of Sister Lucia in an interview:

Carlos Evaristo: "But is not the conversion of Russia not interpreted as the conversion of the Russian People to Catholicism?"

Sister Lucia:"Our Lady never said that. There are many misinterpretations around. The fact is that in Russia, the communist, atheist power, prevented the people form carrying out their faith. People now have an individual choice to remain as they are or to convert. This they are now free to do, and many conversions are, in fact, taking place; and that man (Gorbachev) in Russia, unknowingly was an instrument of God in the conversion..." (from Two Hours with Sister Lucia by Carlos Evaristo)


Then there wouldn't be any further need of the "consecration of Russia" and prayers for her "conversion," now, would there?
Consistency at Fatima, as elsewhere in these matters, is severely lacking. For further analysis on the conversion to what
http://www.orthodox.org/Fatima.pdf

What are you talking about?  As long as athiestic Communism was in control there was.  And as recently related on another thread Russia is still recovering as less then 10% attend Church on a regular basis.
So the "Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart" has been a failure?
Well, I guess we'll never know unless the supreme pontiff consecrates it properly as instructed.
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« Reply #133 on: February 02, 2011, 11:57:43 PM »

It's still ongoing - just as is the conversion of the whole world to Christ. Smiley
I see. Well I guess some other act is required to ensure the "triumph of the Immaculate Heart"- like the proclamation of the "Fifth Marian Dogma". Cheesy
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« Reply #134 on: February 03, 2011, 12:02:10 AM »

Most Holy Mother of God save us.
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