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Author Topic: bizarre teachings about the Mother of God  (Read 30102 times) Average Rating: 0
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Deacon Lance
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« Reply #495 on: November 15, 2011, 06:25:32 PM »

Yeah, you can make a marriage of 20 years go *poof!* and your children illegitimate.  Sorry, we're on a corban free diet.

An anullment does not make children illegitimate.  And you  misuse of the word corban is tiring.
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« Reply #496 on: November 15, 2011, 06:32:38 PM »

Quote
I tire of the complaints of western converts to the Orthodoxy about the Catholic Church-especially the bit about definitions, dogma, and doctrine. Definitions of dogma happen rarely and they ALWAYS happen by necessity. We need to be told that at mass a real change takes place, what appears to be bread and wine is no longer that. We need to believe that Mary was immaculately conceived, because the whole things does not work without that dogma. And God ratified the promulgation of that dogma by sending us Bernadette and the on-going miracle of Lourdes. We need to be told that contraception is intrinsically evil (oh wouldn’t it be easy if we could just hide from that one like the Orthodox do). We need to know that life begins at conception. We need some clarity. thank God for the Pope. thank God for his ability to speak a clarifying word–which he does very, very seldomly!
http://www.devinrose.heroicvirtuecreations.com/blog/2011/10/17/the-six-attractions-of-eastern-orthodoxy/comment-page-1/#comment-132759

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

And you think this is the good new?... Cheesy

I especially like No.1 that says that Orthodoxy is attractive because it has all the exotic eastern allure of Buddhism and Hinduism but ya get ta keep Jesus... Cool...yeah!!

And then there's No.4: " It’s a bit less strict morally"

"Orthodoxy allows the use of contraception, as well as divorce and remarriage (under certain conditions). There seems to be an ongoing debate on these subjects within Orthodoxy, but from what I have read and heard, the current consensus allows these practices that the Catholic Church rejects as immoral.

These stances understandably appeal to many Protestants, whose denominations allow contraception without question as well as divorce and remarriage (usually for any reason whatsoever, no questions asked).
"

Now THERE is a real good selling point for a religion...

 Tongue Tongue Tongue Tongue
Yeah, you can make a marriage of 20 years go *poof!* and your children illegitimate.  Sorry, we're on a corban free diet.

This is too personal for you to have much of a healthy perspective.
We went through that before: your fishing for something other than my plain words, some "deep" reason other than truth, came up empty and you guessed wrong.  I have no personal connection/invovlement with the corban factories a/k/a the marriage tribunals.
 
I try to stay out of this underground garage too.
you've been caught more than once rumaging around there, trying to find something in someone's basement to ignore what they put in their front window.
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« Reply #497 on: November 15, 2011, 06:44:32 PM »

Yeah, you can make a marriage of 20 years go *poof!* and your children illegitimate.  Sorry, we're on a corban free diet.

An anullment does not make children illegitimate.  And you  misuse of the word corban is tiring.
The correct labeling is what is discomforting.

I'm aware of the magic of the corban factories, that it can go back in the way back machine (the same one the magisterium uses evidently to apply Calvary to the Virgin's conception) and make marriages non-existent while not spoiling the fruit of that marriage (not to mention, not make the parties guilty of fornication all that time  Shocked), but such slight of hand does take the full light of day, when the smoke is waved away and a look in the mirror is taken.
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« Reply #498 on: November 15, 2011, 06:54:03 PM »

The correct labeling is what is discomforting.

I'm aware of the magic of the corban factories, that it can go back in the way back machine (the same one the magisterium uses evidently to apply Calvary to the Virgin's conception) and make marriages non-existent while not spoiling the fruit of that marriage (not to mention, not make the parties guilty of fornication all that time  Shocked), but such slight of hand does take the full light of day, when the smoke is waved away and a look in the mirror is taken.

How do you conncet Christ disapproving of a child excusing their financial responsibility to care for their parents by declaring their money "corban/offering" to an anullment?

An anullment declares that a sacrament did not take place.  It does not declare that a civil marriage did not take place or that the couple did not live together in good faith.
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« Reply #499 on: November 15, 2011, 07:04:38 PM »

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An anullment declares that a sacrament did not take place.  It does not declare that a civil marriage did not take place or that the couple did not live together in good faith.

Sophistry at its finest.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #500 on: November 15, 2011, 07:12:08 PM »

Quote
An anullment declares that a sacrament did not take place.  It does not declare that a civil marriage did not take place or that the couple did not live together in good faith.

Sophistry at its finest.  Roll Eyes

it kind of reminds me of the Once saved always saved philosophy, if you fall away from Jesus you were never saved to begin with...
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« Reply #501 on: November 15, 2011, 07:14:38 PM »

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An anullment declares that a sacrament did not take place.  It does not declare that a civil marriage did not take place or that the couple did not live together in good faith.

Sophistry at its finest.  Roll Eyes

it kind of reminds me of the Once saved always saved philosophy, if you fall away from Jesus you were never saved to begin with...

I think it is a superior solution to a wholesale re-write of the law of God.
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« Reply #502 on: November 15, 2011, 07:20:09 PM »

The correct labeling is what is discomforting.

I'm aware of the magic of the corban factories, that it can go back in the way back machine (the same one the magisterium uses evidently to apply Calvary to the Virgin's conception) and make marriages non-existent while not spoiling the fruit of that marriage (not to mention, not make the parties guilty of fornication all that time  Shocked), but such slight of hand does take the full light of day, when the smoke is waved away and a look in the mirror is taken.

How do you conncet Christ disapproving of a child excusing their financial responsibility to care for their parents by declaring their money "corban/offering" to an anullment?

An anullment declares that a sacrament did not take place.
 
You just answered your question.

St. Paul compares speaks of being joined by prostitution (I Cor. 6:16), but for the corban factories matrimony does not have such joining power.

Just as I was typing this, there was something on a famous recent convert to the Vatican, and the question of his marriage. Did it end because it never happened, or because of his infidelity, now his second wife?

It does not declare that a civil marriage did not take place
The Church, nor the Vatican, recognizes civil marriage.

or that the couple did not live together in good faith.
Did Christ deny that the Samaritan woman lived together in good faith?

So they lived in fornication in good faith.  What of it?
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« Reply #503 on: November 15, 2011, 07:20:57 PM »

Quote
An anullment declares that a sacrament did not take place.  It does not declare that a civil marriage did not take place or that the couple did not live together in good faith.

Sophistry at its finest.  Roll Eyes

it kind of reminds me of the Once saved always saved philosophy, if you fall away from Jesus you were never saved to begin with...

I think it is a superior solution to a wholesale re-write of the law of God.
LOL. You have more of that too.
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« Reply #504 on: November 15, 2011, 07:29:40 PM »


We went through that before: your fishing for something other than my plain words, some "deep" reason other than truth, came up empty and you guessed wrong.  I have no personal connection/invovlement with the corban factories a/k/a the marriage tribunals.
 

I was simply remarking that you speak with such authority about things you admittedly know nothing about.
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« Reply #505 on: November 15, 2011, 07:33:15 PM »


We went through that before: your fishing for something other than my plain words, some "deep" reason other than truth, came up empty and you guessed wrong.  I have no personal connection/invovlement with the corban factories a/k/a the marriage tribunals.
 

I was simply remarking that you speak with such authority about things you admittedly know nothing about.
Wrong again.  Just because I myself personally do not have any personal experience doesn't mean I don't know those who do, or know nothing about the topic.  I know that shooting up with heroin is bad for you the same way that I know the marriage tribunals are corban factories.
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« Reply #506 on: November 15, 2011, 07:38:27 PM »

Quote
An anullment declares that a sacrament did not take place.  It does not declare that a civil marriage did not take place or that the couple did not live together in good faith.

Sophistry at its finest.  Roll Eyes

No sophistry about it.  For a sacrament to take place certain prerequisites must be in place or it can't take place.   For example a woman may disguise herself as a man and undergo the rite of ordination but it will not make her a priest.  A person may undergo the rite of mariage but if there is an impediment no sacramental marriage takes place.
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« Reply #507 on: November 15, 2011, 07:42:23 PM »

The correct labeling is what is discomforting.

I'm aware of the magic of the corban factories, that it can go back in the way back machine (the same one the magisterium uses evidently to apply Calvary to the Virgin's conception) and make marriages non-existent while not spoiling the fruit of that marriage (not to mention, not make the parties guilty of fornication all that time  Shocked), but such slight of hand does take the full light of day, when the smoke is waved away and a look in the mirror is taken.

How do you conncet Christ disapproving of a child excusing their financial responsibility to care for their parents by declaring their money "corban/offering" to an anullment?

An anullment declares that a sacrament did not take place.
 
You just answered your question.

Well then call it a declaration factory, as calling it a corban/offering factory makes no sense.

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« Reply #508 on: November 15, 2011, 07:46:39 PM »

Quote
An anullment declares that a sacrament did not take place.  It does not declare that a civil marriage did not take place or that the couple did not live together in good faith.

Sophistry at its finest.  Roll Eyes

No sophistry about it.  For a sacrament to take place certain prerequisites must be in place or it can't take place.   For example a woman may disguise herself as a man and undergo the rite of ordination but it will not make her a priest.  A person may undergo the rite of mariage but if there is an impediment no sacramental marriage takes place.
no matter how much being fruitful and multiplying of facts that a marriage took place occur.

Interesting how the supreme pontiff has the power to remove impediments (that is how he got Hefele to capitulate to Pastor Aeternus, as I posted elsewhere) but has no power to recognize the consumation of marriage, where St. Paul sees a union even in prostitution.
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« Reply #509 on: November 15, 2011, 07:47:48 PM »

The Church, nor the Vatican, recognizes civil marriage.

The Church, Catholic and Orthodox, (depending on the law of the country) require a marraige license to perform a wedding and also require a civil divorce before an anullment or ecclesial divorce will be considered.  And the Catholic Church does indeed recognize the validity of civil marraiges for non-Christian and the sacramentality of the marriage of Prostestants whether in a church or city hall.
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« Reply #510 on: November 15, 2011, 07:52:14 PM »

no matter how much being fruitful and multiplying of facts that a marriage took place occur.

Interesting how the supreme pontiff has the power to remove impediments (that is how he got Hefele to capitulate to Pastor Aeternus, as I posted elsewhere) but has no power to recognize the consumation of marriage, where St. Paul sees a union even in prostitution.

Anybody can have kids that alone is not proof a sacrament.  Also the Pope cannot dispense from imepdiments of divine law, i.e.  he cannot dispense a brother to marry his sister, no matter how much incest has occured.
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« Reply #511 on: November 15, 2011, 07:54:17 PM »

The Church, nor the Vatican, recognizes civil marriage.

The Church, Catholic and Orthodox, (depending on the law of the country) require a marraige license to perform a wedding and also require a civil divorce before an anullment or ecclesial divorce will be considered.  And the Catholic Church does indeed recognize the validity of civil marraiges for non-Christian and the sacramentality of the marriage of Prostestants whether in a church or city hall.
How many Protestants and non-Christians seek annullments from the Vatican's corban factory?
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« Reply #512 on: November 15, 2011, 08:00:53 PM »

The Church, nor the Vatican, recognizes civil marriage.

The Church, Catholic and Orthodox, (depending on the law of the country) require a marraige license to perform a wedding and also require a civil divorce before an anullment or ecclesial divorce will be considered.  And the Catholic Church does indeed recognize the validity of civil marraiges for non-Christian and the sacramentality of the marriage of Prostestants whether in a church or city hall.
How many Protestants and non-Christians seek annullments from the Vatican's corban factory?

For Protestants, the ones that get divorced and then become Catholics and want to remarry.  The non-Chrisitans can seek a dispensation under the Petrine Privilege.
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« Reply #513 on: November 15, 2011, 08:08:23 PM »

Let's not lose track of the fact that Al Misry proudly posted the following site that listed these, among other, very attractive things about Orthodoxy:

http://www.devinrose.heroicvirtuecreations.com/blog/2011/10/17/the-six-attractions-of-eastern-orthodoxy/comment-page-1/#comment-132759


I especially like No.1 that says that Orthodoxy is attractive because it has all the exotic eastern allure of Buddhism and Hinduism but ya get ta keep Jesus... Cool...yeah!!

And then there's No.4: " It’s a bit less strict morally"

"Orthodoxy allows the use of contraception, as well as divorce and remarriage (under certain conditions). There seems to be an ongoing debate on these subjects within Orthodoxy, but from what I have read and heard, the current consensus allows these practices that the Catholic Church rejects as immoral.

These stances understandably appeal to many Protestants, whose denominations allow contraception without question as well as divorce and remarriage (usually for any reason whatsoever, no questions asked)."

Now THERE is a real good selling point for a religion...
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« Reply #514 on: November 16, 2011, 10:13:34 AM »

no matter how much being fruitful and multiplying of facts that a marriage took place occur.

Interesting how the supreme pontiff has the power to remove impediments (that is how he got Hefele to capitulate to Pastor Aeternus, as I posted elsewhere) but has no power to recognize the consumation of marriage, where St. Paul sees a union even in prostitution.

Anybody can have kids that alone is not proof a sacrament.
Indeed! And they can grow up to be supreme pontiff!
Quote
He was born in Florence one month after his father's death. His father, Giuliano de' Medici, had been assassinated. Although his parents had not had a formal marriage, a canon law loophole allowing for the parents to have been betrothed per sponsalia de presenti meant that Giulio was considered legitimate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Clement_VII
The loophole was needed, as illegitimacy was an impediment to ordination 1118-1983
http://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=%22canon+law+between+1118+and+1983%22
Amazing!  The Vatican can marry the dead but cannot recognize the marriage of the living.

Of course, all very convenient that one of the only two witnesses, Giuliano, was dead, and the identity of the other is unknown, except for the fact that she was low born of the lower guilds, i.e. no one a Medici would marry, just use.  One candidate is Andrea di Michele del Cittandino, who would be 14 at Clement VII's conception, below the age of consent.  Whoever she was, she was out of the picture-by death or being put a way-within a year.

Clement could have gotten a dispensation-his cousin Giovanni was reigning as Pope Leo X when Giulio was ordained cardinal deacon, and of course had all those petrine powers at his disposal ("Since God has given us the Papacy, let us enjoy it.")-but he did not, instead depending on the ruse that his dead father and his unknown (even to him) mother were really married, a fact known to be false.  This of course raises the question of a pope without "an episcopal character" exercising those petrine powers in legitimizing himself, or denying Henry VIII "the shameless sentence from Rome" that Henry's aunt Margaret got.
Also the Pope cannot dispense from imepdiments of divine law, i.e.  he cannot dispense a brother to marry his sister, no matter how much incest has occured.
au contraire, a survey of the dispensations would prove you wrong Fr. deacon-Hitler's father, for instance, got a dispensation to marry his niece, Hitler's mother.  And I do recall a German noble around the time of the reformation who did get a dispensation to marry his sister.

Btw, none of this addresses the point that even in prostitution, there is a joining that must be recognized, and so the corban factories will not afford to wives the recognition that St. Paul gives to prostitutes.
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« Reply #515 on: November 16, 2011, 12:18:18 PM »


au contraire, a survey of the dispensations would prove you wrong Fr. deacon-Hitler's father, for instance, got a dispensation to marry his niece, Hitler's mother.  

More of your historical chicanery...

When it comes to slamming your fist into the Catholic Church there are no holds barred.

You play on the ignorance of others for your credibility.
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« Reply #516 on: November 16, 2011, 12:28:01 PM »


au contraire, a survey of the dispensations would prove you wrong Fr. deacon-Hitler's father, for instance, got a dispensation to marry his niece, Hitler's mother.  

More of your historical chicanery...

When it comes to slamming your fist into the Catholic Church there are no holds barred.

You play on the ignorance of others for your credibility.

I dont get what you're arguing..Alois did marry his niece and he had to get a dispensation to do so.....there's no ignorance, it did happen. So what are you arguing here?
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« Reply #517 on: November 16, 2011, 12:35:07 PM »


au contraire, a survey of the dispensations would prove you wrong Fr. deacon-Hitler's father, for instance, got a dispensation to marry his niece, Hitler's mother.  

More of your historical chicanery...

When it comes to slamming your fist into the Catholic Church there are no holds barred.

You play on the ignorance of others for your credibility.

I dont get what you're arguing..Alois did marry his niece and he had to get a dispensation to do so.....there's no ignorance, it did happen. So what are you arguing here?

There is no hard and fast evidence at all that the young woman was his niece.  In fact the evidence is greater that the woman was his first cousin.  That was their legal relationship and the impediment which Rome would have dispensed.   

Your historical perspicacity may be, I don't know, a bit more honest than the man you defend.  Perhaps you are one of the ones that he finds so easy to fool.
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« Reply #518 on: November 16, 2011, 12:43:29 PM »


au contraire, a survey of the dispensations would prove you wrong Fr. deacon-Hitler's father, for instance, got a dispensation to marry his niece, Hitler's mother.  

More of your historical chicanery...

When it comes to slamming your fist into the Catholic Church there are no holds barred.

You play on the ignorance of others for your credibility.

I dont get what you're arguing..Alois did marry his niece and he had to get a dispensation to do so.....there's no ignorance, it did happen. So what are you arguing here?

There is no hard and fast evidence at all that the young woman was his niece.
She was convinced she was, and called him "Onkel."  Do dispensations come with DNA testing?

In fact the evidence is greater that the woman was his first cousin.  That was their legal relationship and the impediment which Rome would have dispensed.

you cough up the dispensation document that says so, and I'll buy your argument.

Your historical perspicacity may be, I don't know, a bit more honest than the man you defend.  Perhaps you are one of the ones that he finds so easy to fool.
Sic Maria dixit +November 16, 2011
« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 12:43:51 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #519 on: November 16, 2011, 12:45:06 PM »


au contraire, a survey of the dispensations would prove you wrong Fr. deacon-Hitler's father, for instance, got a dispensation to marry his niece, Hitler's mother.  

More of your historical chicanery...

When it comes to slamming your fist into the Catholic Church there are no holds barred.

You play on the ignorance of others for your credibility.

I dont get what you're arguing..Alois did marry his niece and he had to get a dispensation to do so.....there's no ignorance, it did happen. So what are you arguing here?
Propoganda of the faith in the Vatican, as always.
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« Reply #520 on: November 16, 2011, 12:49:12 PM »


au contraire, a survey of the dispensations would prove you wrong Fr. deacon-Hitler's father, for instance, got a dispensation to marry his niece, Hitler's mother.  

More of your historical chicanery...

When it comes to slamming your fist into the Catholic Church there are no holds barred.

You play on the ignorance of others for your credibility.

I dont get what you're arguing..Alois did marry his niece and he had to get a dispensation to do so.....there's no ignorance, it did happen. So what are you arguing here?

There is no hard and fast evidence at all that the young woman was his niece.  In fact the evidence is greater that the woman was his first cousin.  That was their legal relationship and the impediment which Rome would have dispensed.  

Your historical perspicacity may be, I don't know, a bit more honest than the man you defend.  Perhaps you are one of the ones that he finds so easy to fool.
Firstly, Isa. I dont believe is trying to fool anyone. No more so than I think you, Maria, are trying to fool anyone. He gives his opinions, and you have yours. I would be very hesitant to openly accuse anyone of trying to deceive others. You might have a helping of humble pie if you do.

Secondly, I dont need anyone to tell me anything about history. If I know something, I know it. If I dont, I admit I dont, and educate myself. Just because I agree with Isa on alot of points does not mean all points.

Now, to the matter at hand. Whether Alois' wife was his first cousin or his niece, both are frowned upon by Rome (as well they should be). I believe Mayor Rudy got his first marriage annulled because his then-wife was his second cousin (I think thats right, but I could be wrong). Either way, Hitler's mother was a devout Catholic and it would have been highly improbable for a well documented devout Catholic to simply ignore the Church concerning this out of convenience.

Either way, the Church would have had to issue something allowing the marriage. Whether she was Mr. hitler's cousin or niece, Isa's statement holds true.

PP
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« Reply #521 on: November 16, 2011, 01:12:35 PM »


au contraire, a survey of the dispensations would prove you wrong Fr. deacon-Hitler's father, for instance, got a dispensation to marry his niece, Hitler's mother.  

More of your historical chicanery...

When it comes to slamming your fist into the Catholic Church there are no holds barred.

You play on the ignorance of others for your credibility.

I dont get what you're arguing..Alois did marry his niece and he had to get a dispensation to do so.....there's no ignorance, it did happen. So what are you arguing here?

There is no hard and fast evidence at all that the young woman was his niece.  In fact the evidence is greater that the woman was his first cousin.  That was their legal relationship and the impediment which Rome would have dispensed.  

Your historical perspicacity may be, I don't know, a bit more honest than the man you defend.  Perhaps you are one of the ones that he finds so easy to fool.
Firstly, Isa. I dont believe is trying to fool anyone. No more so than I think you, Maria, are trying to fool anyone. He gives his opinions, and you have yours. I would be very hesitant to openly accuse anyone of trying to deceive others. You might have a helping of humble pie if you do.

Secondly, I dont need anyone to tell me anything about history. If I know something, I know it. If I dont, I admit I dont, and educate myself. Just because I agree with Isa on alot of points does not mean all points.

Now, to the matter at hand. Whether Alois' wife was his first cousin or his niece, both are frowned upon by Rome (as well they should be). I believe Mayor Rudy got his first marriage annulled because his then-wife was his second cousin (I think thats right, but I could be wrong). Either way, Hitler's mother was a devout Catholic and it would have been highly improbable for a well documented devout Catholic to simply ignore the Church concerning this out of convenience.

Either way, the Church would have had to issue something allowing the marriage. Whether she was Mr. hitler's cousin or niece, Isa's statement holds true.

PP
btw, the petition submitted to the Vatican (via Linz) is translated here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=vV0BpSKYJ6QC&pg=PA48&dq=Rome+dispensation+hitler's&hl=en#v=onepage&q=Rome%20dispensation%20hitler's&f=false
Johann Neopulk Hiedler (Hitler's maternal great-grandfather) was either the father, uncle, or step-uncle to Hitler's father.
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« Reply #522 on: November 16, 2011, 01:19:00 PM »



Either way, the Church would have had to issue something allowing the marriage. Whether she was Mr. hitler's cousin or niece, Isa's statement holds true.

PP

Then you really know nothing of the Catholic Church as well as being in the dark about this particular bit of history.
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« Reply #523 on: November 16, 2011, 01:35:04 PM »

This thread is not only off topic now, it is personally antagonistic. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
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« Reply #524 on: November 16, 2011, 01:41:50 PM »

This thread is not only off topic now, it is personally antagonistic. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

You are a kind fellow with a good heart but passing off historical speculation as historical fact, which happens all the time here with Al Misry, should not be constantly passed over as though nothing is wrong. 

If that is too personal...so be it.   When a person chooses to play on the general ignorance of his audience then his or her behaviors, personally, should be brought to light.
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« Reply #525 on: November 16, 2011, 01:54:12 PM »

This thread is not only off topic now, it is personally antagonistic. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

You are a kind fellow with a good heart but passing off historical speculation as historical fact, which happens all the time here with Al Misry, should not be constantly passed over as though nothing is wrong. 

If that is too personal...so be it.   When a person chooses to play on the general ignorance of his audience then his or her behaviors, personally, should be brought to light.

Why are you picking on him, when he hasn't posted anything to warrant such a comment? Perhaps you assumed the post was written by another poster on this board?

The post wasn't directed at you in particular; you just chose to make it personal.
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« Reply #526 on: November 16, 2011, 02:04:24 PM »

This thread is not only off topic now, it is personally antagonistic. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

You are a kind fellow with a good heart but passing off historical speculation as historical fact, which happens all the time here with Al Misry, should not be constantly passed over as though nothing is wrong. 

If that is too personal...so be it.   When a person chooses to play on the general ignorance of his audience then his or her behaviors, personally, should be brought to light.

Why are you picking on him, when he hasn't posted anything to warrant such a comment? Perhaps you assumed the post was written by another poster on this board?

The post wasn't directed at you in particular; you just chose to make it personal.


 Huh  Did you actually read the last few posts in this thread?
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« Reply #527 on: November 16, 2011, 02:18:43 PM »

This thread is not only off topic now, it is personally antagonistic. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

You are a kind fellow with a good heart but passing off historical speculation as historical fact, which happens all the time here with Al Misry, should not be constantly passed over as though nothing is wrong. 

If that is too personal...so be it.   When a person chooses to play on the general ignorance of his audience then his or her behaviors, personally, should be brought to light.

Why are you picking on him, when he hasn't posted anything to warrant such a comment? Perhaps you assumed the post was written by another poster on this board?

The post wasn't directed at you in particular; you just chose to make it personal.


 Huh  Did you actually read the last few posts in this thread?

Yes; did you see who the authors of those posts were?
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« Reply #528 on: November 16, 2011, 02:23:12 PM »

This thread is not only off topic now, it is personally antagonistic. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

You are a kind fellow with a good heart but passing off historical speculation as historical fact, which happens all the time here with Al Misry, should not be constantly passed over as though nothing is wrong. 

If that is too personal...so be it.   When a person chooses to play on the general ignorance of his audience then his or her behaviors, personally, should be brought to light.

Why are you picking on him, when he hasn't posted anything to warrant such a comment? Perhaps you assumed the post was written by another poster on this board?

The post wasn't directed at you in particular; you just chose to make it personal.


 Huh  Did you actually read the last few posts in this thread?

Yes; did you see who the authors of those posts were?

I'm sorry.  I don't get your point at all. 

Al Misry presented speculation as fact.  I took exception to it.

Period.
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« Reply #529 on: November 16, 2011, 02:33:03 PM »

For Protestants, the ones that get divorced and then become Catholics and want to remarry.  The non-Chrisitans can seek a dispensation under the Petrine Privilege.

See, if you guys were baptizing your Protestant converts then *poof!* the sin of the first divorce is washed away.
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« Reply #530 on: November 16, 2011, 02:47:45 PM »

This thread is not only off topic now, it is personally antagonistic. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

i've seen worse, unfortunately Sad
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« Reply #531 on: November 16, 2011, 03:43:12 PM »



Either way, the Church would have had to issue something allowing the marriage. Whether she was Mr. hitler's cousin or niece, Isa's statement holds true.

PP

Then you really know nothing of the Catholic Church as well as being in the dark about this particular bit of history.
Because you are the arbiter of all things historical. Especially since you have yet to provide 1 shred of evidence refuting it. Now I know where you can take yourself and the horse you rode in on.


PP
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« Reply #532 on: November 16, 2011, 04:09:35 PM »



Either way, the Church would have had to issue something allowing the marriage. Whether she was Mr. hitler's cousin or niece, Isa's statement holds true.

PP

Then you really know nothing of the Catholic Church as well as being in the dark about this particular bit of history.
Because you are the arbiter of all things historical. Especially since you have yet to provide 1 shred of evidence refuting it. Now I know where you can take yourself and the horse you rode in on.


PP

Ya know, some things are pretty common knowledge and when you don't know precisely what is common, in this day, and in this age, a great deal of information is just a "Google" search away.

M.
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« Reply #533 on: November 16, 2011, 04:16:41 PM »



Either way, the Church would have had to issue something allowing the marriage. Whether she was Mr. hitler's cousin or niece, Isa's statement holds true.

PP

Then you really know nothing of the Catholic Church as well as being in the dark about this particular bit of history.
Because you are the arbiter of all things historical. Especially since you have yet to provide 1 shred of evidence refuting it. Now I know where you can take yourself and the horse you rode in on.


PP

Ya know, some things are pretty common knowledge and when you don't know precisely what is common, in this day, and in this age, a great deal of information is just a "Google" search away.

M.
Then here's one for you.:

Klara Hitler. Just click on any 'ole link and you'll read all about her and her uncle or first cousin and her devoutness to the Roman Church.
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« Reply #534 on: November 16, 2011, 04:24:07 PM »



Either way, the Church would have had to issue something allowing the marriage. Whether she was Mr. hitler's cousin or niece, Isa's statement holds true.

PP

Then you really know nothing of the Catholic Church as well as being in the dark about this particular bit of history.
Because you are the arbiter of all things historical. Especially since you have yet to provide 1 shred of evidence refuting it. Now I know where you can take yourself and the horse you rode in on.


PP

Ya know, some things are pretty common knowledge and when you don't know precisely what is common, in this day, and in this age, a great deal of information is just a "Google" search away.

M.
Then here's one for you.:

Klara Hitler. Just click on any 'ole link and you'll read all about her and her uncle or first cousin and her devoutness to the Roman Church.

Yes.  The MOST LIKELY relationships is first cousin.  The Catholic Church will dispense the prohibition against first cousins in marriage.

Al Misry said that she was his NIECE...as though it were FACT, when it is weak speculation at best.

The Catholic Church would NOT dispense the relationship of niece and uncle.

That was Father Deacon's point and this was the junk history that Al Misry put forward to counter it.

Apparently you didn't get it either.

Ahhhwell...
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« Reply #535 on: November 16, 2011, 04:49:04 PM »



Either way, the Church would have had to issue something allowing the marriage. Whether she was Mr. hitler's cousin or niece, Isa's statement holds true.

PP

Then you really know nothing of the Catholic Church as well as being in the dark about this particular bit of history.
Because you are the arbiter of all things historical. Especially since you have yet to provide 1 shred of evidence refuting it. Now I know where you can take yourself and the horse you rode in on.


PP

Ya know, some things are pretty common knowledge and when you don't know precisely what is common, in this day, and in this age, a great deal of information is just a "Google" search away.

M.
Then here's one for you.:

Klara Hitler. Just click on any 'ole link and you'll read all about her and her uncle or first cousin and her devoutness to the Roman Church.

Yes.  The MOST LIKELY relationships is first cousin.  The Catholic Church will dispense the prohibition against first cousins in marriage.

Al Misry said that she was his NIECE...as though it were FACT, when it is weak speculation at best.

The Catholic Church would NOT dispense the relationship of niece and uncle.

That was Father Deacon's point and this was the junk history that Al Misry put forward to counter it.

Apparently you didn't get it either.

Ahhhwell...
Which is why I said this:

Quote
Now, to the matter at hand. Whether Alois' wife was his first cousin or his niece, both are frowned upon by Rome (as well they should be).

Also, if your statement below were true:

Quote
The Catholic Church would NOT dispense the relationship of niece and uncle

Half of the Hapsburgs including Charles II would never have been born. Actually your Church's law allows such unions and they are called Consanguinity of the Second Degree which can be allowed (and was granted) to many nobles because of interbreeding among the nobility.
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« Reply #536 on: November 16, 2011, 05:28:27 PM »


Half of the Hapsburgs including Charles II would never have been born. Actually your Church's law allows such unions and they are called Consanguinity of the Second Degree which can be allowed (and was granted) to many nobles because of interbreeding among the nobility.

Juana la Loca

That part is true.

We hope those hard lessons have been learned, permanently now, by all.

I should not have said they were not dispensed.  Those relationships were certainly not allowed canonically and should not have been dispensed, as the world knows now why even more poignantly.

But that does not detract from the fact that Al Misry often presents historical speculation as historical fact.
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« Reply #537 on: November 16, 2011, 05:30:52 PM »

This thread is not only off topic now, it is personally antagonistic. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

i've seen worse, unfortunately Sad

True. And I'm no perfect person either. Far from it. I've said many things of which I'm not proud. All I'm saying is, it's kind of sad that these things devolve this way.

Lord help us.
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« Reply #538 on: November 16, 2011, 05:32:30 PM »

This thread is not only off topic now, it is personally antagonistic. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

You are a kind fellow with a good heart but passing off historical speculation as historical fact, which happens all the time here with Al Misry, should not be constantly passed over as though nothing is wrong. 

If that is too personal...so be it.   When a person chooses to play on the general ignorance of his audience then his or her behaviors, personally, should be brought to light.

Well, I'm afraid I may have only made it worse. Such was not my intention.  Embarrassed

I am sorry. Thank you.
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« Reply #539 on: November 16, 2011, 05:47:22 PM »

Quote
Juana la Loca

That part is true.

We hope those hard lessons have been learned, permanently now, by all.

I should not have said they were not dispensed.  Those relationships were certainly not allowed canonically and should not have been dispensed, as the world knows now why even more poignantly.
Thats cool. You've checked me once or twice if I recall Smiley

Quote
But that does not detract from the fact that Al Misry often presents historical speculation as historical fact
Im not him so I'll just be an interested bystander on that one Smiley

Quote
Well, I'm afraid I may have only made it worse

Actually I did by pushin' that ball further down the road.


Quote
This thread is not only off topic now, it is personally antagonistic. You should be ashamed of yourselves

You're right of course....


PP
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