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Author Topic: bizarre teachings about the Mother of God  (Read 30004 times) Average Rating: 0
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #225 on: February 04, 2011, 08:19:03 PM »

The passage, "Create in me a clean heart, O God, And renew a right spirit within me" (Psalm 50:12 - Orthodox Study Bible) would be applicable to one who has undergone a heart transplant.  Organ transplantation has been accepted by most Orthodox.

My point wasn't about organ transplant itself, I'm more interested in the ideas that underlying ideas that some Orthodox hold to. For example:

"The heart is the center, the mid-point of man's existence. And not only in the spiritual sense, where heart is the term for the center of one's spiritual person, one's "I"; in physical life, too, the physical heart is the chief organ and central point of the organism, being mysteriously and indissolubly connected with the experiences of one's soul. It is well known to all how a man's purely psychical and nervous experiences joy, anger, fright, etc.,—are reflected immediately in the action of the heart, and conversely how an unhealthy condition of the heart acts oppressively on the psyche and consciousness... Yes, here the bond is indissoluble—and if, instead of the continuation of a man's personal spiritual-bodily life, concentrated in his own heart, there is imposed on him a strange heart and some kind of strange life, until then totally unknown to him—then what is this if not a counterfeit of his departing life; what is this if not the annihilation of his spiritual-bodily life, his individuality, his personal "I"? And how and as whom will such a man present himself at the general resurrection?"

I was trying to show that some Orthodox would seem to agree with the original idea that the heart was considered to be very important to a person, part of what made him, part of his essence, etc.
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« Reply #226 on: February 04, 2011, 08:21:02 PM »

So do individual members of the Eastern Orthodox Church get to decide that other Orthodox (Western, Oriental, etc.) are heretics, just on their own without all their Patriarchs in agreement? Cool! I want to be my own Pope too! Smiley


I suppose some things are so obvious that nobody has to wait for a synodal decision from the bishops - the Mother of God is worshipped as the Fourth Person of the Trinity... a layperson may consecrate the Bread and Wined.... a nun may give sacramental absolution...

Father Bless.

I wonder what Papal Encyclical or Vatican II document permitted female lay distribution of the Eucharist?   Huh
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« Reply #227 on: February 04, 2011, 08:21:53 PM »

Could you give me an example from "Classical Thought" that says "the heart is the essence of the person"?
How about expressions such as "bless his/her heart," or when one refers to someone being "pure of heart"? Do you take that to mean that their heart needs a blessing because they have poor cardiovascular health, or in the second example that their heart is not dirty?

Does anyone imagine reaching in and pullling the heart out so as to receive the blessing?

The evidence doesn't bear that out since I stated on this same thread that the same devotion to the "Sacred Heart" by some Western Rite Orthodox is also heresy. No prize for martyrdom this time I'm afraid. Wink
You cannot cite "Western Rite Orthodoxy" as proof of anything. It is still part of the Eastern Orthodox Church which is still opposed to many Catholic devotions (due, obviously, to not understanding them).
No, due mostly, as in this case, to understanding them all too well.

It never dawns on the Vatican's masses that for a millenium and a half no one imaged dismembering the Lord or His mother and devoting a cult to the body parts.  And not from a lack of examples:such cults were and are popular amongst the heathen, the examples above being only a sample.

But someone claims that they have a vision of the Lord or especially His mother ordering these bizarre things, and not only does the Vatican and its followers not think that such things do not strike a note out of note with the hymns of the Apostles and Saints, but thirst for even more "visionaries" with such cults.

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« Reply #228 on: February 04, 2011, 08:23:58 PM »

I wonder how many Catholic women (and men?) carve the names of Jesus and Mary onto their bodies seeing that the most famous of these self-mutilators is a Saint ... oh wait, why should I waste mental energy on what they do.   Roll Eyes

Humanae Vitae doesn't condemn one to eternal damnation for self-mutilation ...
I guess it doesn't violate natural law. LOL.
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« Reply #229 on: February 04, 2011, 08:28:58 PM »

Self-mutilation?  Really?

Really.

If that's really what you think the Roman Catholic Church teaches its adherents to do, I don't know that it's worth it to even try to discuss this topic with you.

If Sainthood is the ultimate reward for self-mutilation, then no wonder Rome has had such luminaries as Padre Pio, stigmata, and the Dan Brown books and movies.
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« Reply #230 on: February 04, 2011, 08:33:51 PM »

I wonder how many Catholic women (and men?) carve the names of Jesus and Mary onto their bodies seeing that the most famous of these self-mutilators is a Saint ... oh wait, why should I waste mental energy on what they do.   Roll Eyes

Humanae Vitae doesn't condemn one to eternal damnation for self-mutilation ...
I guess it doesn't violate natural law. LOL.

Now I understand why men and women who cut themselves are treated gingerly (or like Lindsay Lohan with repeated second chances).

Quote
But people who cut may not have developed ways to cope. Or their coping skills may be overpowered by emotions that are too intense. When emotions don't get expressed in a healthy way, tension can build up — sometimes to a point where it seems almost unbearable. Cutting may be an attempt to relieve that extreme tension. For some, it seems like a way of feeling in control.

The urge to cut might be triggered by strong feelings the person can't express — such as anger, hurt, shame, frustration, or alienation. People who cut sometimes say they feel they don't fit in or that no one understands them. A person might cut because of losing someone close or to escape a sense of emptiness. Cutting might seem like the only way to find relief or express personal pain over relationships or rejection.
(emphasis mine)

Source (page 2)

Saint Sister Margaret Mary Alacoque was an ordinary 17th Century teenager no different from the teenagers of today.  Her personal issues, maybe growing up in a strict Catholic household, resulted in the events which led to her self-mutilation and subsequent canonization.  May the Lord have Mercy on her soul....  Amen!
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« Reply #231 on: February 04, 2011, 08:38:40 PM »

Could you give me an example from "Classical Thought" that says "the heart is the essence of the person"?
How about expressions such as "bless his/her heart," or when one refers to someone being "pure of heart"? Do you take that to mean that their heart needs a blessing because they have poor cardiovascular health, or in the second example that their heart is not dirty?
Well I certainly don't take those common sayings to mean "the heart is the essence of the person." What exactly do you mean by "the heart is the essence of the person"? Does this mean that somehow Personhood has an "essence" at the "centre" of the Person and the rest of them is extraneous to the Person? If a Person's Body and soul are separated, where is their "Essence"? Is it their soul? Is it their body? When I die, and my body is in the grave and my soul in hell, where will "I" be? Where will my "essence" be? And in the case of the God-Man, what do you mean by His "Essence" which you represent by "His heart"? Is there a "centre" to the God-Man which is "essential" to Him and the rest of Him extraneous?
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« Reply #232 on: February 04, 2011, 08:45:16 PM »

Wow, this thread deteriorated into insult-flinging so fast my head is still spinning - and my stomach  is churning from all the acid and bile Sad

(you know, when I say that, that I haven't cut myself up into separate body parts - right? good grief!!!)
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« Reply #233 on: February 04, 2011, 08:45:37 PM »

Well I certainly don't take those common sayings to mean "the heart is the essence of the person." What exactly do you mean by "the heart is the essence of the person"? Does this mean that somehow Personhood has an "essence" at the "centre" of the Person and the rest of them is extraneous to the Person? If a Person's Body and soul are separated, where is their "Essence"? Is it their soul? Is it their body? When I die, and my body is in the grave and my soul in hell, where will "I" be? Where will my "essence" be? And in the case of the God-Man, what do you mean by His "Essence" which you represent by "His heart"? Is there a "centre" to the God-Man which is "essential" to Him and the rest of Him extraneous?

Met. Philaret (ROCOR) seemed to consider it very important--perhaps even essential, as partially shown in the quote I gave above.
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« Reply #234 on: February 04, 2011, 08:47:49 PM »

Too long to get into the Platonism run amok, but synecdoche much?

Classically the "seat" of personhood has been associated with numerous bodily organs, sometimes literally, but most often in a figurative sense as mentioned above.

Today, we are our brains.

Prior to today:

Heart, liver, "bowels" (kidneys probably), etc.

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« Reply #235 on: February 04, 2011, 08:50:44 PM »

Wow, this thread deteriorated into insult-flinging so fast my head is still spinning - and my stomach  is churning from all the acid and bile Sad

(you know, when I say that, that I haven't cut myself up into separate body parts - right? good grief!!!)

Insults?  I don't see any insults?  I'm thinking of ozgeorge's question on where will one's Essence be when one is in hell as Roman Catholics teach.  Saint Sister Margaret Mary Alacoque is in Heaven, still mutilating herself on every 19th day after Pentecost before the Sacred and Immaculate Hearts of Christ and the Virgin Mary.
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« Reply #236 on: February 04, 2011, 08:51:59 PM »

Too long to get into the Platonism run amok, but synecdoche much?

Classically the "seat" of personhood has been associated with numerous bodily organs, sometimes literally, but most often in a figurative sense as mentioned above.

Today, we are our brains.

Prior to today:

Heart, liver, "bowels" (kidneys probably), etc.

The reality is though, that there is no "seat" of Personhood at all- which is why, as Christians, we venerate relics of Saints and look forward to the Resurrection of the dead.
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« Reply #237 on: February 04, 2011, 08:52:23 PM »

You don't see the insults because you're one of those who has been flinging them.

I am so done with Orthodoxy now - this place has really poisoned it for me. Sad  Sad  Sad
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« Reply #238 on: February 04, 2011, 08:52:40 PM »

Too long to get into the Platonism run amok, but synecdoche much?

Classically the "seat" of personhood has been associated with numerous bodily organs, sometimes literally, but most often in a figurative sense as mentioned above.

Today, we are our brains.

Prior to today:

Heart, liver, "bowels" (kidneys probably), etc.

The reality is though, that there is no "seat" of Personhood at all- which is why, as Christians, we venerate relics of Saints and look forward to the Resurrection of the dead.

A bodily resurrection?  Tongue
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« Reply #239 on: February 04, 2011, 08:55:54 PM »

Too long to get into the Platonism run amok, but synecdoche much?

Classically the "seat" of personhood has been associated with numerous bodily organs, sometimes literally, but most often in a figurative sense as mentioned above.

Today, we are our brains.

Prior to today:

Heart, liver, "bowels" (kidneys probably), etc.

The reality is though, that there is no "seat" of Personhood at all- which is why, as Christians, we venerate relics of Saints and look forward to the Resurrection of the dead.

A bodily resurrection?  Tongue
Yes, the whole thing.  Not part by part.
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« Reply #240 on: February 04, 2011, 08:58:25 PM »

Met. Philaret (ROCOR) seemed to consider it very important--perhaps even essential, as partially shown in the quote I gave above.
He's wrong. Smiley
He is committing the common fallacy of the homunculus.
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« Reply #241 on: February 04, 2011, 08:59:22 PM »

Too long to get into the Platonism run amok, but synecdoche much?

Classically the "seat" of personhood has been associated with numerous bodily organs, sometimes literally, but most often in a figurative sense as mentioned above.

Today, we are our brains.

Prior to today:

Heart, liver, "bowels" (kidneys probably), etc.

The reality is though, that there is no "seat" of Personhood at all- which is why, as Christians, we venerate relics of Saints and look forward to the Resurrection of the dead.

"Seat" was a metaphor, the scare quotes even to signify that. Sorry, but the entire Bible speaks of persons metaphorically.

Even "spirit" is figure of speech lent from the body.

Another thread to get around this "disembodied" soul stuff, another time.





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« Reply #242 on: February 04, 2011, 09:00:05 PM »

Yes, the whole thing.  Not part by part.

My point is that the body is part of who we are. We aren't simply soul/spirits, but our bodies--whether our current ones or our resurrection ones--are important as well.
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« Reply #243 on: February 04, 2011, 09:01:10 PM »

Deleted due to reading error.
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« Reply #244 on: February 04, 2011, 09:01:21 PM »

Met. Philaret (ROCOR) seemed to consider it very important--perhaps even essential, as partially shown in the quote I gave above.
He's wrong. Smiley
He is committing the common fallacy of the homunculus.


For the record, I don't agree with him, I'm just pointing out that Catholics aren't alone in thinking such things as was mentioned.
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« Reply #245 on: February 04, 2011, 09:03:58 PM »

Met. Philaret (ROCOR) seemed to consider it very important--perhaps even essential, as partially shown in the quote I gave above.
He's wrong. Smiley
He is committing the common fallacy of the homunculus.


Believe it or not the homunculus is still used as an illustrative way to understanding certain aspects of medicine today as a model. Was talking with a MD PhD about it, was quite surprised.
Yes, I know. But the reality is that it doesn't exists.  "I" am not a homunculus who "owns" "my" body and "my" soul.
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« Reply #246 on: February 04, 2011, 09:06:25 PM »

Yes, the whole thing.  Not part by part.

My point is that the body is part of who we are. We aren't simply soul/spirits, but our bodies--whether our current ones or our resurrection ones--are important as well.

To even divide them is metaphor.

Against the differences among body, soul, and spirit would be a fun thread since it is something am I surprised I hear Orthodox often fall fully into Platonism over.




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« Reply #247 on: February 04, 2011, 10:27:06 PM »

I wonder how many Catholic women (and men?) carve the names of Jesus and Mary onto their bodies seeing that the most famous of these self-mutilators is a Saint ... oh wait, why should I waste mental energy on what they do.   Roll Eyes

Humanae Vitae doesn't condemn one to eternal damnation for self-mutilation ...

That's rather snarky. If we go down this path, I am sure that our Catholic friends will find some bizarre practices that may have occurred during the 2,000 year old history of the Orthodox Church. This whole discussion is non-productive.
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« Reply #248 on: February 04, 2011, 11:10:44 PM »

I wonder how many Catholic women (and men?) carve the names of Jesus and Mary onto their bodies seeing that the most famous of these self-mutilators is a Saint ... oh wait, why should I waste mental energy on what they do.   Roll Eyes

Humanae Vitae doesn't condemn one to eternal damnation for self-mutilation ...

That's rather snarky.

Why so?  Catholics cannot practice birth control under severe and permanent penalties and can be canonized by performing self-mutilation in the names of Jesus and Mary?   Huh

If we go down this path, I am sure that our Catholic friends will find some bizarre practices that may have occurred during the 2,000 year old history of the Orthodox Church.

This forum has been around for 8 years?  If such evidence is unearthed by our Catholic friends, we can deal with it when the time comes.

This whole discussion is non-productive.

Blame Vassula.   Wink
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« Reply #249 on: February 04, 2011, 11:15:35 PM »

Yikes.  All I wanted when I started this thread was to find out if the weird things I heard from that woman represented the Catholic Church's teachings.   Tongue
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« Reply #250 on: February 04, 2011, 11:17:43 PM »

You don't see the insults because you're one of those who has been flinging them.

Historical accounts are being cited; how are those an "insult?"

I am so done with Orthodoxy now - this place has really poisoned it for me. Sad  Sad  Sad

I'm sorry you feel that way.   Sad  I'm sorry that learning the truth about your own faith has been painful and that is your personal choice.  As I told elijahmaria, the gap between Orthodox and Catholics is very wide regardless of the statements generated at Orthodox-Catholic Consultations.  Any attempts at "unity" are really attempts by the Vatican to shove a millennium worth of Papal Bulls, Papal Encyclicals and other legalistic directives down the throats of the Orthodox....
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« Reply #251 on: February 04, 2011, 11:20:54 PM »

Yikes.  All I wanted when I started this thread was to find out if the weird things I heard from that woman represented the Catholic Church's teachings.   Tongue
And now you know- they are.
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« Reply #252 on: February 04, 2011, 11:35:18 PM »

Are they?  I got confused. 
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« Reply #253 on: February 04, 2011, 11:37:44 PM »

Are they?  I got confused. 

No, they aren't.  Smiley There were some practices brought up that Orthodox didn't particularly like, but I don't think any of the things mentioned in the OP were shown to be a Catholic Church teaching.
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« Reply #254 on: February 04, 2011, 11:41:46 PM »

This is what I asked about:

Quote
One of the things she said was that it was not just Christ who saved us, but the Mother of God who saved us as well.  She made it sound as if the Mother of God was as much our savior as Christ.

Among other things, she said that it was "Mary's blood" that saved us, because Christ got His blood from her.  She made it sound like it was actually St. Mary's blood that was in Christ veins, and that therefore it can be said that "Mary's blood" saved us.

She brought up the creation narrative in the Book of Genesis and said that when God created Adam, He used a plural pronoun for Adam.  She said the meaning behind this was that God was creating both men and women, and that therefore both a male and female saviour would be needed to save all of humanity.  In other words, one male saviour would not have been enough; we also needed a female saviour, who was the Virgin Mary.

She also brought up the Wedding of Cana, and used that to say that the Mother of God could change her Son's will.


It seems we've gotten sidetracked into other tangents, such as the sacred heart, or immaculate heart, as well as some rather shocking things I wish I never learned about Hindu deities, and other things.  It's all very interesting,  but like you said, it may not relate to what I asked about.  
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« Reply #255 on: February 04, 2011, 11:48:34 PM »

Are they?  I got confused. 
Yep. Its all in this thread:

One of the things she said was that it was not just Christ who saved us, but the Mother of God who saved us as well.  She made it sound as if the Mother of God was as much our savior as Christ.

The Co-Redeemer doctrine:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,33383.msg527341.html#msg527341

Defended by Catholic laity:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,33383.msg527435/#msg527435

Pushed for by Catholic Heirarchy:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,33383.msg528028.html#msg528028

Its origins as a "private revelation"
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,33383.msg528073.html#msg528073
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« Reply #256 on: February 04, 2011, 11:59:05 PM »

First, you aren't even dealing with the specific claims (e.g. the Adam and Eve thing), you're just speaking generally. Second, you seem to still be misunderstanding what they're saying. So far as I understand, it is not Roman Catholic teaching that the Mother of God saves us--at least not any more than Orthodox speak of her as saving us. That is, it is not a salvation in the same way as Christ saves. Both ways of speaking about her saving us is easily misunderstood, it seems. That you can find a couple Catholics who push things beyond what their Church actually teaches doesn't prove anything, any more than finding some Orthodox claiming something crazy makes all of Orthodoxy wrong (e.g. remember that Greek priest in Florida who was heavily into the charismatic movement?)
« Last Edit: February 05, 2011, 12:01:48 AM by Asteriktos » Logged

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« Reply #257 on: February 05, 2011, 12:17:09 AM »

First, you aren't even dealing with the specific claims (e.g. the Adam and Eve thing), you're just speaking generally.
Actually, I gave you the sources in my posts which deal with this, but if you want me do do your homework for you, I will.
If you go to the website I give here:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,33383.msg528073.html#msg528073
you will find this:
"In the heavenly messages to Sister Agnes Sassagawa in Akita Japan, also approved by the Church, the fourth message (on 28th September 1981) refers to Our Lady as Co-Redemptrix."
This "heavenly message" includes the following:
"There is a meaning to the figure 101 (the number of times the statue wept). This signifies that sin came into the world by a woman and it is also by a woman that salvation came into the world. The zero between the two signifies the Eternal God who is from all eternity until eternity. The first one represents Eve, and the last, the Virgin Mary."

Second, you seem to still be misunderstanding what they're saying. So far as I understand, it is not Roman Catholic teaching that the Mother of God saves us--at least not any more than Orthodox speak of her as saving us. That is, it is not a salvation in the same way as Christ saves.
If you go to the website I quoted here
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,33383.msg528073.html#msg528073
You will find this:

"Her hands have radiant Wounds. Thereby Mary describes in an image the suffering of body and soul which she bore in union with her divine Son for the redemption of mankind."

So you see, Asteriktos, it is not her role as Theotokos which apparently saves us, but her "suffering of body and soul which she bore in union with her divine Son for the redemption of mankind."

Satisfied?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2011, 12:19:46 AM by ozgeorge » Logged

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« Reply #258 on: February 05, 2011, 12:24:20 AM »

I went to the website and I don't see where it uses the word "approved" on the page linked to. However, I did see on another page that something along the lines of belief or veneration was allowed by a local bishop. So... ? What does that mean to you? That the Bishop of podunk can declare what the teachings of the entire Catholic Church are? I must be missing something, because I just don't get where you're coming from here...
« Last Edit: February 05, 2011, 12:24:54 AM by Asteriktos » Logged

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« Reply #259 on: February 05, 2011, 12:25:40 AM »

Some people get their kicks by thinking up new heresies to accuse others of...
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« Reply #260 on: February 05, 2011, 12:26:57 AM »

Some people get their kicks by thinking up new heresies to accuse others of...
What did we say about reading threads before we comment?

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,33383.msg528028.html#msg528028
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« Reply #261 on: February 05, 2011, 12:29:08 AM »

This is what I asked about:

Quote
One of the things she said was that it was not just Christ who saved us, but the Mother of God who saved us as well.  She made it sound as if the Mother of God was as much our savior as Christ.

Among other things, she said that it was "Mary's blood" that saved us, because Christ got His blood from her.  She made it sound like it was actually St. Mary's blood that was in Christ veins, and that therefore it can be said that "Mary's blood" saved us.

She brought up the creation narrative in the Book of Genesis and said that when God created Adam, He used a plural pronoun for Adam.  She said the meaning behind this was that God was creating both men and women, and that therefore both a male and female saviour would be needed to save all of humanity.  In other words, one male saviour would not have been enough; we also needed a female saviour, who was the Virgin Mary.

She also brought up the Wedding of Cana, and used that to say that the Mother of God could change her Son's will.


It seems we've gotten sidetracked into other tangents, such as the sacred heart, or immaculate heart, as well as some rather shocking things I wish I never learned about Hindu deities, and other things.  It's all very interesting,  but like you said, it may not relate to what I asked about.  

Vassula and her followers are savvy enough to realize that most Orthodox and Catholics are ignorant of their own religious faith; There appear to be thousands of female Catholic Saints who were canonized due to believing in the Precious Blood of Christ and/or the Sacred/Immaculate Heart of Mary and/or Christ.
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« Reply #262 on: February 05, 2011, 12:42:02 AM »

I went to the website and I don't see where it uses the word "approved" on the page linked to. However, I did see on another page that something along the lines of belief or veneration was allowed by a local bishop.
Surely EWTN wouldn't lie:
"June 1988- Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, gives definitive judgement on the Akita events and messages as reliable and worthy of belief." http://www.ewtn.com/library/mary/akita.htm
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« Reply #263 on: February 05, 2011, 12:53:15 AM »

That the Bishop of podunk can declare what the teachings of the entire Catholic Church are? I must be missing something, because I just don't get where you're coming from here...
Well, if he can't then how come a Catholic Parish in England can be named after an "apparition" in Amsterdam?
http://www.camborne-redruth-parish.org/Our_Parish_Patron.html
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« Reply #264 on: February 05, 2011, 12:53:39 AM »

I went to the website and I don't see where it uses the word "approved" on the page linked to. However, I did see on another page that something along the lines of belief or veneration was allowed by a local bishop.
Surely EWTN wouldn't lie:
"June 1988- Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, gives definitive judgement on the Akita events and messages as reliable and worthy of belief." http://www.ewtn.com/library/mary/akita.htm

Well that moves us one step closer, and I saw some interesting (ie. difficult) things in your new link, but what I didn't see is what you quoted earlier, or mention of a fourth message... ?
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« Reply #265 on: February 05, 2011, 12:54:39 AM »

That the Bishop of podunk can declare what the teachings of the entire Catholic Church are? I must be missing something, because I just don't get where you're coming from here...
Well, if he can't then how come a Catholic Parish in England can be named after an "apparition" in Amsterdam?
http://www.camborne-redruth-parish.org/Our_Parish_Patron.html

I have no clue Smiley
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« Reply #266 on: February 05, 2011, 12:57:20 AM »

I went to the website and I don't see where it uses the word "approved" on the page linked to. However, I did see on another page that something along the lines of belief or veneration was allowed by a local bishop.
Surely EWTN wouldn't lie:
"June 1988- Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, gives definitive judgement on the Akita events and messages as reliable and worthy of belief." http://www.ewtn.com/library/mary/akita.htm

Well that moves us one step closer, and I saw some interesting (ie. difficult) things in your new link, but what I didn't see is what you quoted earlier, or mention of a fourth message... ?
Try this: http://www.101foundation.com/akitadesc.html
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« Reply #267 on: February 05, 2011, 01:01:05 AM »

I went to the website and I don't see where it uses the word "approved" on the page linked to. However, I did see on another page that something along the lines of belief or veneration was allowed by a local bishop.
Surely EWTN wouldn't lie:
"June 1988- Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, gives definitive judgement on the Akita events and messages as reliable and worthy of belief." http://www.ewtn.com/library/mary/akita.htm

Well that moves us one step closer, and I saw some interesting (ie. difficult) things in your new link, but what I didn't see is what you quoted earlier, or mention of a fourth message... ?
Try this: http://www.101foundation.com/akitadesc.html

But what did Cardinal Ratzinger approve? Even your new website confuses the issue, talking of the 1981 event and then not mentioning it below. When this 1981 thing occured they were already investigating, so did they add it to the investigation and approve it, or no? From the past two links you've given I can't tell for sure, but would guess no...
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« Reply #268 on: February 05, 2011, 03:03:20 AM »

This is what I asked about:

Quote

Among other things, she said that it was "Mary's blood" that saved us, because Christ got His blood from her.  She made it sound like it was actually St. Mary's blood that was in Christ veins, and that therefore it can be said that "Mary's blood" saved us.



I think some of the quotes from these links support this view. Certainly not doctrine, but it appears to be at least worthy theologoumena.

http://www.cuttingedge.org/articles/rc142.htm

http://www.fatima.org/joel/jo-pg106.asp

One particular quote stands out, "the flesh of Jesus is the maternal flesh of Mary, the Blood of Jesus is the maternal blood of Mary." ~St. Thomas Aquinas
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« Reply #269 on: February 05, 2011, 03:21:57 AM »

^ The stuff written in the above sites does sound an awful lot like what I heard. 
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