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Author Topic: starting to miss my old Church...what to do?  (Read 3976 times) Average Rating: 0
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ialmisry
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« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2011, 09:17:56 PM »

Church, not Churches. The Body of Christ is one and cannot be divided, God forbid! That means that there is only One Church of Christ. From an opposite stand-view, if one Church is the Church of Christ, then all the others are the Churches of the Satan. (All the gods of the pagans are demons, Scripture says.) So, if you consider the EO Church the right one, then the Catholic one is the work of Satan and vice versa. You just have to choose. One cannot serve two masters.

Have we also forgotten the Canons of the Holy Apostles?
Quote
Canon XLV.
Let a bishop, presbyter, or deacon, who has only prayed with heretics, be excommunicated: but if he has permitted them to perform any clerical office, let him be deposed.

Canon XLVI.
We ordain that a bishop, or presbyter, who has admitted the baptism or sacrifice of heretics, be deposed. For what concord hath Christ with Belial, or what part hath a believer with an infidel?

Canon LXIV.
If any clergyman or layman shall enter into a synagogue of Jews or heretics to pray, let the former be deposed and let the latter be excommunicated.

Pray to the Lord and His All-Holy Mother to guide you. I'll be praying for you.

I guess there is no hope for people like me then, because I am convinced that both the Orthodox and Catholic Churches are of one Apostolic Tradition but sadly just separated.  I pray for reconciliation!

I don't wish to endorse the whole "you pray to demons" thing quoted above, but still I cannot see how you cannot see that the RCs and the Eastern Orthodox Church teach different doctrines.

Different, yes...but I believe the doctrines of the Orthodox and Catholics chruches are directly descendent derivatives of the Apostolic Tradition and (only) therefore reconcilable.
No. The Orthodox Tradition is the Apostolic Tradition. Not a derivative thereof.

The Vatican's tradition is a derivative, just like the Protestant, Nestorian and Monothelite traditions are derivative of it.  Even further diluted by heresy, the Mormons are even derivative from Apostolic Tradition, but not reconcilable in the least with the Apostolic Tradition of Orthodoxy.
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ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
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« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2011, 09:20:14 PM »

Here is an Eastern Catholic web site with a version using prayers familiar to the eastern tradition of praying.

What a great alternative!
Mixing heresy with Orthodoxy just gives you heresy. If you find that an attractive alternative to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, you are welcome to it.
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
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« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2011, 09:23:15 PM »

I'd just like to add that this particular Catholic Church is where all of the immigrate Poles would go (we got many eastern european immegrants, as we have a large steel mill.)  there was a time when they would say mass in Polish for people like my grandparents.  I still have fond memories of sitting down with my grandmother and her golden rosery (which she left me in her will, btw) and her teaching me the prayers in Polish.  (she also taught me the "Our Father" in Ukrainian, because her great grandfather was Ukrainian, and taught it to her when she was a little girl).  I don't know...I guess I just feel a cultural connection to this Church.  all of my grandparents (except my Protestand German grandmother) were Catholic.  most people talk about how their culturally Orthodox. when I think about it, my culture is Roman Catholic (ok, a bit Lutheran, too.)

also, I keep getting in little fights with my dad.  he is almost a catechumen.  last time, I didn't go to liturgy because he'd just yell at me at coffee hour.  we clearly have some issues we need to work out.  and, I know it's terrible (but, hey, I'm a teenager) but I sortof feel like he's stepping in on my territory.  it's fine that he wants to be Orthodox.  now he wants to serve in the altar.  I don't know.....I'm having a hard time expressing Christian love toward him, right now. 


please, forgive the rant!  I just figured I would get this out there for commentary.   Wink
btw, on that, since you are going to the same Church you should discuss this with your priest, as it seems the problem is spilling out in Church.
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
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« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2011, 09:26:21 PM »

my father wasn't able to drive me to vespers last Sat., so I walked to my old Church for mass.  I must say, I have really been missing it.  I would never leave Holy Orthodoxy, mind you!  I spoke to the priest of the parish (he pulled me aside at the end) and he said he would pray for me, and to ask the Blessed Mother for guidance. 

what is the best thing to do when you miss your old Church?

The grass is always greener on the other side, my friend Wink

What do you miss specifically, might I ask, other than the familiarity of it?
specifically, there were several beautiful Latin hymns they sung before communion, and I loved those.  ("Sanctus, Sanctus, Sanctus", etc.).  I also really liked the architecture of the Church.  lastly, I miss praying the rosery.  I know that the prayer rope is the rosery for us Orthodox, but it's not really the same. 
WRO pray the rosary. It is not an Eastern tradition, however.
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Melodist
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« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2011, 09:32:45 PM »

Here is an Eastern Catholic web site with a version using prayers familiar to the eastern tradition of praying.

What a great alternative!
Mixing heresy with Orthodoxy just gives you heresy. If you find that an attractive alternative to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, you are welcome to it.

I wasn't suggesting an alternative church. Only a format for seeking the intercessions of the Theotokos.
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And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

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Shlomlokh
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« Reply #50 on: February 01, 2011, 10:05:23 PM »

Yeah, once we can resolve Eastern Orthodox innovations, then we can restore full communion.
LOL. Have you considered stand up?

In Christ,
Andrew
Have you?
No sir, I am no comedian. Just a poor college boy. Wink

In Christ,
Andrew
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"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos
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« Reply #51 on: February 02, 2011, 10:20:10 AM »

Church, not Churches. The Body of Christ is one and cannot be divided, God forbid! That means that there is only One Church of Christ. From an opposite stand-view, if one Church is the Church of Christ, then all the others are the Churches of the Satan. (All the gods of the pagans are demons, Scripture says.) So, if you consider the EO Church the right one, then the Catholic one is the work of Satan and vice versa. You just have to choose. One cannot serve two masters.

Have we also forgotten the Canons of the Holy Apostles?
Quote
Canon XLV.
Let a bishop, presbyter, or deacon, who has only prayed with heretics, be excommunicated: but if he has permitted them to perform any clerical office, let him be deposed.

Canon XLVI.
We ordain that a bishop, or presbyter, who has admitted the baptism or sacrifice of heretics, be deposed. For what concord hath Christ with Belial, or what part hath a believer with an infidel?

Canon LXIV.
If any clergyman or layman shall enter into a synagogue of Jews or heretics to pray, let the former be deposed and let the latter be excommunicated.

Pray to the Lord and His All-Holy Mother to guide you. I'll be praying for you.

I guess there is no hope for people like me then, because I am convinced that both the Orthodox and Catholic Churches are of one Apostolic Tradition but sadly just separated.  I pray for reconciliation!

I don't wish to endorse the whole "you pray to demons" thing quoted above, but still I cannot see how you cannot see that the RCs and the Eastern Orthodox Church teach different doctrines.

Different, yes...but I believe the doctrines of the Orthodox and Catholics chruches are directly descendent derivatives of the Apostolic Tradition and (only) therefore reconcilable.
No. The Orthodox Tradition is the Apostolic Tradition. Not a derivative thereof.

The Vatican's tradition is a derivative, just like the Protestant, Nestorian and Monothelite traditions are derivative of it.  Even further diluted by heresy, the Mormons are even derivative from Apostolic Tradition, but not reconcilable in the least with the Apostolic Tradition of Orthodoxy.

I said "...the doctrines...are...derivatives of the Apostolic Tradition..."

I continue to pray for clear thought and understanding, yours and mine.
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rimlyanin
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« Reply #52 on: February 02, 2011, 10:28:50 AM »

Here is an Eastern Catholic web site with a version using prayers familiar to the eastern tradition of praying.

What a great alternative!
Mixing heresy with Orthodoxy just gives you heresy. If you find that an attractive alternative to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, you are welcome to it.

I wasn't suggesting an alternative church. Only a format for seeking the intercessions of the Theotokos.

Yes, I think I missed something...how is it that praying the Rosary, which includes Our Fathers, Hail Marys and contemplation of the the five Mysteries of Christ a heresy??

I continue to pray for clear thought and understanding, yours and mine.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 10:29:33 AM by rimlyanin » Logged
podkarpatska
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« Reply #53 on: February 02, 2011, 10:57:24 AM »

Here is an Eastern Catholic web site with a version using prayers familiar to the eastern tradition of praying.

What a great alternative!
Mixing heresy with Orthodoxy just gives you heresy. If you find that an attractive alternative to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, you are welcome to it.

I wasn't suggesting an alternative church. Only a format for seeking the intercessions of the Theotokos.

Yes, I think I missed something...how is it that praying the Rosary, which includes Our Fathers, Hail Marys and contemplation of the the five Mysteries of Christ a heresy??

I continue to pray for clear thought and understanding, yours and mine.

I think that we all tend to trot out certain words too cavalierly, 'heresy' and 'heretic' being among the most dangerous to use in an improper context. 'Heterodox' is more appropriate in this context in terms of the Rosary being a religious expression that differs from commonly accepted Orthodox practice, but falls short of 'heresy'. I would hesitate to call the Rosary a 'heretical' practice as I find it more than difficult to envision the pious old women I remember from childhood being 'branded' as heretics.
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« Reply #54 on: February 02, 2011, 12:05:48 PM »

Here is an Eastern Catholic web site with a version using prayers familiar to the eastern tradition of praying.

What a great alternative!

Mixing heresy with Orthodoxy just gives you heresy. If you find that an attractive alternative to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, you are welcome to it.

I wasn't suggesting an alternative church. Only a format for seeking the intercessions of the Theotokos.

Yes, I think I missed something...how is it that praying the Rosary, which includes Our Fathers, Hail Marys and contemplation of the the five Mysteries of Christ a heresy??

I continue to pray for clear thought and understanding, yours and mine.

I think that we all tend to trot out certain words too cavalierly, 'heresy' and 'heretic' being among the most dangerous to use in an improper context. 'Heterodox' is more appropriate in this context in terms of the Rosary being a religious expression that differs from commonly accepted Orthodox practice, but falls short of 'heresy'. I would hesitate to call the Rosary a 'heretical' practice as I find it more than difficult to envision the pious old women I remember from childhood being 'branded' as heretics.

Seeking the intercessions of the Theotokos is not at all offensive to Orthodoxy, and neither is using beads or knots to pray. This particular way of doing so may not be too commonly practiced in eastern tradition, but there is nothing wrong with it as long as you focus on prayer and not things of your own imagining.
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And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

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« Reply #55 on: February 02, 2011, 12:45:31 PM »

my father wasn't able to drive me to vespers last Sat., so I walked to my old Church for mass.  I must say, I have really been missing it.  I would never leave Holy Orthodoxy, mind you!  I spoke to the priest of the parish (he pulled me aside at the end) and he said he would pray for me, and to ask the Blessed Mother for guidance. 

what is the best thing to do when you miss your old Church?

Trevor I wonder if what you are really missing is the feeling of family of your old church.  You are able to walk there instead of drive so it must be close by you.  And the priest was kind enough to seek you out and talk to you.  Did you go to that your church your whole life?
When I read you first post, my first thought was why on earth is someone fromyour new Orthodox Church not picking up for church?  Secondly I wondered if you were missed by people in your new Orthodox Church when you didn't show up for vespers.  And does the Orthodox priests know what a sacrifice you are making by converting and keep in touch with you?  The feeling that you are part of the "Family of God" in your parish is important.  Everyone needs to be loved.
I drive my mother and a number of her widowed friends to meetings at our church during the week.   IF these ladies were not picked up they wouldn't bgo.  ITs a small thing but important to them and of course to the life of the church.
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« Reply #56 on: February 02, 2011, 02:34:03 PM »

I do not understand what the problem is. Whenever I became Catholic, I did not feel like I was giving everything up from my Protestant days. The fact is, even though there are definite errors within Protestantism, there is a lot good within Protestantism as well. Those things which did not directly conflict with Catholicism I tended to hold on to. An example is praying using one's own words instead of praying written prayers. I do pray a lot of written prayers of my Church such as the Act of Contrition and the Rosary. However, sometimes I just make the Sign of the Cross and then begin praying in my own words. I am not sure how common this is amongst cradle Catholics, but I know it is a lot more common in Protestant circles, especially in the evangelical/holiness movement.

I think you can still listen to Latin music and pray the Rosary without feeling like you are betraying Eastern Orthodoxy. Talk to you priest and ask him if you have any doubts. I am sure he would have no problem with it, especially if you mention to him that you are going to be using the Eastern Orthodox version of the Rosary.
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