Author Topic: Hilary of Poitiers  (Read 1040 times)

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Offline deusveritasest

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Hilary of Poitiers
« on: January 25, 2011, 09:06:14 PM »
Have any OO officially recognized Hilary of Poitiers as a Saint?
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Offline Arnaud

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Re: Hilary of Poitiers
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2011, 07:46:34 AM »
Sorry not to answer your question directly, others will answer, just to say that I have one of his books in french on the Trinity, refuting the heresy of Arius, and this book is a masterpiece. I don't know if you were able to read a little his works, anyway they are to be read. 
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The Lion of the tribe of Judah has conquered !

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Hilary of Poitiers
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2011, 03:33:49 PM »
Given how orthodox it seems he was and given how clearly pre-schism the period of time was, it would seem surprising if there was a problem with him that prevented recognition of him as a Saint, yet I have not been able to find any official recognition from the OO yet.
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Offline Father Peter

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Re: Hilary of Poitiers
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2011, 03:33:46 AM »
But you know that churches don't have lists of every saint from every other church. That's not how it works. It doesn't mean any particular saint is not recognised.
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Hilary of Poitiers
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2011, 03:52:13 AM »
But you know that churches don't have lists of every saint from every other church. That's not how it works. It doesn't mean any particular saint is not recognised.

Yeah, Father, I know. But I also know that sometimes Saints can be officially recognized without being in the actual calendar of Saints. I was keeping that in consideration as a possibility.
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Offline copticmind

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Re: Hilary of Poitiers
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2011, 04:17:49 AM »
The Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilary_of_Poitiers mentions that he is venerated in the Oriental Orthodox Church, I know it's not a very credible source and I checked the resources but couldn't find any relative information.

However, I know that his writings were quoted in some Arabic researches done by Coptic scholars. Specially for his usage of verses from the Deuterocanonical Books in his writings, which the scholars used to prove that these Books were used by early church fathers.
Ⲡⲁϭⲟⲓⲥ Ⲓⲏⲥ Ⲡⲭⲥ ⳿ⲡϣⲏⲣⲓ ⳿ⲙ⳿Ⲫⲛⲟⲩϯ ⲛⲁⲓ ⲛⲏⲓ ⲁⲛⲟⲕ ⲡⲓⲣⲉϥⲉⲣⲛⲟⲃⲓ
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Offline Shlomlokh

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Re: Hilary of Poitiers
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2011, 11:50:34 PM »
But you know that churches don't have lists of every saint from every other church. That's not how it works. It doesn't mean any particular saint is not recognised.

Yeah, Father, I know. But I also know that sometimes Saints can be officially recognized without being in the actual calendar of Saints. I was keeping that in consideration as a possibility.
Could the situation be similar to how it worked out in Chalcedonian Orthodoxy when one of our hierarchs (St. John of Shanghai and SF) reintroduced many of the western pre-schism Saints to us? I know that you're main focus is on the Saints before Chalcedon, but perhaps it could be a parallel situation? Just throwing that out there. :)

I'm also pretty sure that all of us recognize St. Isaac the Syrian, but he was Nestorian, right?

In Christ,
Andrew
"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Hilary of Poitiers
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2011, 11:57:40 PM »
Could the situation be similar to how it worked out in Chalcedonian Orthodoxy when one of our hierarchs (St. John of Shanghai and SF) reintroduced many of the western pre-schism Saints to us? I know that you're main focus is on the Saints before Chalcedon, but perhaps it could be a parallel situation? Just throwing that out there. :)

Ah, you're wondering why I am focusing on Hilary, and thinking it's because he's a pre-Chalcedonian schism figure? Yes, you're right. I've been putting some effort into studying pre-Chalcedonian Western Saints recently, particularly Hilary, Ambrose, Irenaeus, and John Cassian. I really wish that the OO were doing more to make Westerners welcome; at this point in comparison to your church the effort is truly abysmal.

I'm also pretty sure that all of us recognize St. Isaac the Syrian, but he was Nestorian, right?

No, I don't think it's appropriate to judge Isaac one way or the other. I'm aware that he has a great amount of recognition in both of our traditions. And I'm aware that I have and will receive a lot of flack for this opinion. But as far as I can see, it isn't universal and official in the OOC and I think it violates Patristic principal.

Anyway, I don't see how Isaac is really comparable to Hilary. Hilary was actually clearly orthodox and part of the Orthodox Church.
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Offline Shlomlokh

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Re: Hilary of Poitiers
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2011, 01:16:16 AM »
Could the situation be similar to how it worked out in Chalcedonian Orthodoxy when one of our hierarchs (St. John of Shanghai and SF) reintroduced many of the western pre-schism Saints to us? I know that you're main focus is on the Saints before Chalcedon, but perhaps it could be a parallel situation? Just throwing that out there. :)

Ah, you're wondering why I am focusing on Hilary, and thinking it's because he's a pre-Chalcedonian schism figure? Yes, you're right. I've been putting some effort into studying pre-Chalcedonian Western Saints recently, particularly Hilary, Ambrose, Irenaeus, and John Cassian. I really wish that the OO were doing more to make Westerners welcome; at this point in comparison to your church the effort is truly abysmal.

I apologize, I probably should have been clearer. I guess I was trying to suggest that perhaps he may not be universally recognized is because the OO have not had someone a la St. John of Shanghai and SF to reintroduce those Saints to the OO, if that makes sense. BTW, I love Sts. Ambrose, Irenaeus, and John Cassian. They are fantastic beacons of Orthodoxy, IMO.

I'm also pretty sure that all of us recognize St. Isaac the Syrian, but he was Nestorian, right?

Quote
No, I don't think it's appropriate to judge Isaac one way or the other. I'm aware that he has a great amount of recognition in both of our traditions. And I'm aware that I have and will receive a lot of flack for this opinion. But as far as I can see, it isn't universal and official in the OOC and I think it violates Patristic principal.

Anyway, I don't see how Isaac is really comparable to Hilary. Hilary was actually clearly orthodox and part of the Orthodox Church.
I'm not sure if I was trying to compare him to St. Hilary as much as I was trying to theorize why St. Hilary wasn't on any calendar. In doing so, I thought citing St. Isaac would help show that even if St. Hilary wasn't officially recognized by your church, then perhaps he still could be along the lines that St. Isaac is.

I suppose I really need to work on being more articulate and/or eloquent.  :P

In Christ,
Andrew
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 01:17:05 AM by Shlomlokh »
"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos

Offline lisahan

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Re: Hilary of Poitiers
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2011, 05:52:16 AM »
So beautiful sharing!Thank you very much.
Best wishes!Your article is very good!
It is so nice.
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