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Author Topic: Baptism in the name of the Holy Trinity  (Read 1397 times) Average Rating: 0
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abdedaloho
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« on: January 25, 2011, 03:28:05 PM »

Shlomo,

I am quite new to OC.net and in the short time that I have been here, I have been tremendously benefited from the discussions here.

Please excuse me if this has been discussed already..

My query is about the Sacrament of Baptism.

I am aware that the Baptism should be always in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. If the Baptism is performed in the name of Jesus alone, will it be still considered a valid Baptism ?  I have seen those holding on to this view pointing to Acts 19:2-5 and Acts 10:48 to show that the baptism performed in Jesus's name alone is also valid.

What would be the Orthodox view on this ? And, if it should be always in the name of the Holy Trinity, any particular reasons for the same ?

If this has been already discussed, could you please direct me to those discussions ?

Thank you all very much.

God Bless !!!
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« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2011, 06:38:33 PM »

Shlomo,

I am quite new to OC.net and in the short time that I have been here, I have been tremendously benefited from the discussions here.

Please excuse me if this has been discussed already..

My query is about the Sacrament of Baptism.

I am aware that the Baptism should be always in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. If the Baptism is performed in the name of Jesus alone, will it be still considered a valid Baptism ? 

No.

Quote
I have seen those holding on to this view pointing to Acts 19:2-5 and Acts 10:48 to show that the baptism performed in Jesus's name alone is also valid.

What would be the Orthodox view on this ? And, if it should be always in the name of the Holy Trinity, any particular reasons for the same ?

If this has been already discussed, could you please direct me to those discussions ?

Thank you all very much.

God Bless !!!

Acts 19:1 While Apol'los was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. 2 And he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said, "No, we have never even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." 3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" They said, "Into John's baptism." 4 And Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus." 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

He identifies the twelve as disciples, the term in Acts for Christians, yet he treats them as unchrismated catechumens, until what they tell him tells him that they are not baptized.  Had they been baptized  validly, they would have heard of the Holy Spirit, as He would be named in their baptism. Seeing that He had not been named, he knows that they have not been baptized in the name of Jesus, i.e. according to the instructions of Christ:

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

"in the name of Jesus" is like yelling at a fleeing criminal "Stop! In the name of the Law!" i.e. by His authority. Not using His name as the Formula.

Gal. 4:4 But when the time had fully come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. 6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

Baptism does not just establish a relationship to the Son, but also to the Father, through the Holy Spirit. Hence why one must be baptized into the fullness of the Holy Trinity.
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« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2011, 01:52:57 AM »

What does it matter? Nowhere in the Orthodox Church is anything but the Trinitarian formula used and no baptism outside the Orthodox Church is valid anyway.
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« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2011, 03:28:28 AM »

What does it matter? Nowhere in the Orthodox Church is anything but the Trinitarian formula used and no baptism outside the Orthodox Church is valid anyway.

Certain jurisdictions do accept members through Chrysmation alone, if the chatechumen was previously Baptized in the name of the Trinity.  If not, they Baptize and Chrysmate. 

Admittedly, I find this peculiar, as it seems to be a tacit recognition of legitimate sacraments outside of the Orthodox Church.
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« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2011, 03:58:19 AM »

Admittedly, I find this peculiar, as it seems to be a tacit recognition of legitimate sacraments outside of the Orthodox Church.

Nope. The official position is still that they are empty baptisms, and that the chrism fills up the form.

But no clergy ever says that and I think they want people to have the idea that they are accepting of others.
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« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2011, 07:07:05 AM »

I was told that the Orthodox chrismation makes complete what is lacking in a heterdox baptism (AOCA jurisdiction).
« Last Edit: January 26, 2011, 07:07:22 AM by Ortho_cat » Logged
abdedaloho
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« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2011, 10:14:41 AM »

Shlomo,

Thank you all for the responses..

I tried to read a little from the online sources available on this subject..

I get the impression that, the Acts is a historical narrative by St. Luke. He may not have gone into the technical details of Baptism and was just narrating an event. And also in Acts, the context was differentiating Baptism of St. John the Baptist from the Christian Baptism. And hence just ' in the name of Jesus' has been mentioned.

Is my understanding correct ?

God Bless !!!
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« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2011, 03:29:50 PM »

What does it matter? Nowhere in the Orthodox Church is anything but the Trinitarian formula used and no baptism outside the Orthodox Church is valid anyway.

Certain jurisdictions do accept members through Chrysmation alone, if the chatechumen was previously Baptized in the name of the Trinity.  If not, they Baptize and Chrysmate. 

Admittedly, I find this peculiar, as it seems to be a tacit recognition of legitimate sacraments outside of the Orthodox Church.

This approach, IIRC, is derived from a canon of Saint Basil the Great, and that canon does not include recognition of the validity of said baptisms, rather quite the contrary.
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« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2011, 03:31:08 PM »

I was told that the Orthodox chrismation makes complete what is lacking in a heterdox baptism (AOCA jurisdiction).

Yes. And what is understood to be lacking? The redemption of the Mysteries of the Church.
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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2011, 08:08:27 PM »

Thanks for the responses and clarification of this position. 

A follow up question: If it is understood that the "chrism fills up the form," do we know why there is a distinction between Trinitarian Baptisms and non-Trinitarian?  Perhaps the canon of Saint Basil the Great further explains this?
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« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2011, 08:13:27 PM »

I was told that the Orthodox chrismation makes complete what is lacking in a heterdox baptism (AOCA jurisdiction).

Yes. And what is understood to be lacking? The redemption of the Mysteries of the Church.

Nm. I just realized that was a rhetorical question.
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« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2011, 10:59:36 PM »

Thanks for the responses and clarification of this position. 

A follow up question: If it is understood that the "chrism fills up the form," do we know why there is a distinction between Trinitarian Baptisms and non-Trinitarian?  Perhaps the canon of Saint Basil the Great further explains this?

"Chrism fills up form" cannot be applied when the form was not there or improper. Baptisms not performed in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit do not have proper form.
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« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2011, 11:13:36 PM »

"Chrism fills up form" cannot be applied when the form was not there or improper. Baptisms not performed in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit do not have proper form.

Splendid.  Thanks again.
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« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2011, 11:20:02 PM »

"Chrism fills up form" cannot be applied when the form was not there or improper. Baptisms not performed in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit do not have proper form.

Splendid.  Thanks again.

Glad I could help.  Smiley
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« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2011, 09:55:06 PM »

Acts 19:1 While Apol'los was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. 2 And he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said, "No, we have never even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." 3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" They said, "Into John's baptism." 4 And Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus." 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

He identifies the twelve as disciples, the term in Acts for Christians, yet he treats them as unchrismated catechumens, until what they tell him tells him that they are not baptized.  Had they been baptized  validly, they would have heard of the Holy Spirit, as He would be named in their baptism. Seeing that He had not been named, he knows that they have not been baptized in the name of Jesus, i.e. according to the instructions of Christ:

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

Did you discover this exegesis or did you get it from another writing, Isa?
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